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Alison Stewart: Pete Wells, the New York Times restaurant critic, recently dropped A List of The 100 Best Restaurants in New York City. Spanning all five boroughs, you'll see legendary establishments like Le Bernardin as well as what Wells describes as, "A perpetually busy truck under the train tracks on Roosevelt Avenue." That's called Birria-Landia. The list features 19 spots in Brooklyn, 65 in Manhattan, two in Staten Island, four in the Bronx, and 19 in Queens. Wells's right in the introduction that the collection is, of course, a guide, but, "The list can also be used as a composite portrait of the city."

I've attempted to arrange my favorite restaurants into a pattern that captures the diversity and character of dining in New York. Join us now to walk us through some of his choices, and we'll take some calls, is New York Times critic, Peter Wells. Peter, welcome to the studio.

Pete Wells: Hi, thanks.

Alison Stewart: Listeners. As we discuss Peter's list, there are a few ways you can join the conversation. The obvious one is if you've eaten at any one of the places on Peter's list, if you've seen it, let us know what was good, what you enjoyed about the restaurant. Then we want to expand a bit. We want to hear from you about some of the very specific sidebar mentions in the piece. In addition to the list of 100, there are four categories mentioned. We want to hear your thoughts on one, NextGen Pizzeria's doing it right. Two, call in with great Japanese noodles that aren't udon. Three, your favorite bar with great snacks, and four, best Caribbean food. Those are the four categories to call in about.

212-433WNYC, 212-433-9692, or you can tweet to us or DM us on Instagram or on Twitter. Same handle for both @AllOfItWNYC. Or if you want to pitch a list that you'd like to see some food journalist tackle sometime, you can let us know that too. 212-433 WNYC, 212-433-9692. Peter, I want to ask about the line that follows that quote that I read, that the list can be used as a composite portrait of the city. I've attempted to arrange my favorite restaurants into a pattern that captures the diversity and character of dining in New York. The next sentence is, "This was the fun part because it gave me a chance to see the dining landscape differently." How so?

Pete Wells: Oh, yes. Did I write that? I guess I did. What I meant was week to week, I'm writing reviews of individual restaurants and I'm just focusing on that one place. Everything they do, everything they do well, the things they might not do as well. I do think about the context, like where does this fit in? Maybe to other Italian restaurants or other Greek restaurants. I'm really just in that place trying to give the reader a complete idea.

This was the opposite exercise. It was like, let's stand up at the top of the world, on top of the Empire State Building. Look down on the city and what's it look like? Where's the food? Where's the good food? Where do we want to go? What does that tell us about the neighborhoods in the city? What neighborhoods are great for Puerto Rican food? What neighborhoods are great for Chinese food? What neighborhoods have surprises that you wouldn't expect?

Alison Stewart: What is unique about the dining landscape in New York right now? Right now, in April of 2023, what's something that's unique about it?

Pete Wells: Oof. Not so much reflected in this list, but we are still in this very interesting transitional post-COVID period where a lot of big-budget restaurants that I think were on hold during COVID might have been in the planning stages then, but nobody wanted to open when there were still restrictions. All of those are hitting one after another. I can barely keep up with them. At the same time, you've got all this provisional seat-of-the-pants low-budget stuff, you've got a lot of street vendors that weren't there before and popups, and it's all happening at the same time. To me, it's really fun and wild, but it's a lot to keep track of.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] You have restaurants, the ends of the spectrum. You have places that have months-long waiting lists. You have places with pricey prefix menus. Places that don't even know a place to sit, but the food is fantastic. Did you have any standardized criteria given that it's such a diverse list?

Pete Wells: I was looking for places that you weren't going to find anywhere else. Often, very New Yorky places, places that really just feel like the city, speak of the city, couldn't exist in another city, or places that are just completely of their own kind. One of a kind places. Maybe it could exist in Cleveland, but if it did exist in Cleveland, there wouldn't be one here. Just those very distinctive places. I was trying to stay away from--

If you travel a lot, you can sometimes feel like you're in the same hotel in 10 different cities. You can feel like you're in the same dining room in 10 different cities. I was trying to avoid that. Even though some of those restaurants can be very, very good, I didn't want anything that you could go to in London or Copenhagen. I wanted things that you could go to only in New York.

Alison Stewart: Isn't that the subject of that Anne Tyler book, The Accidental Tourist? [laughs]

Pete Wells: It's right. That you can be all over the world and feel like you've never left the hotel room.

Alison Stewart: What's an example of a restaurant that is uniquely New York that you're pretty confident you would just find here? A restaurant that's on the list. Peter's thinking.

Pete Wells: Yes, I'm thinking, I'm thinking. Well, let's see. Over on Avenue C is this great Serbian restaurant the name of which is completely escaping me right now, but it will come to me. [laughs]. It is a very nostalgic restaurant for the people who go there, it's a very fun restaurant that's just a nonstop party. It is one of the first places in New York City where I ever saw natural wines and orange wines and all these--

Alison Stewart: Kafana?

Pete Wells: Kafana, thank you very much.

Alison Stewart: I just found your review. [laughs]

Pete Wells: Thank you very much. [laughs] There's nothing like it. It's got its own mood, it's a little bit surly, which is very New Yorky, but they're also friendly under the surliness. What's it doing on Avenue C? Who knows? It's just a perfect example of a New York restaurant that, why is it here? It just is.

Alison Stewart: It just is. Peter Wells is a New York Times restaurant critic and creator of The List of 100 Best Restaurants in New York City. Let's take a few calls. Jesse is calling in from Manhattan. Hi Jesse, thanks for calling in.

Jesse: Hello. Number 37, Great N.Y. Noodletown. I work right near there, and once they reopened last September after renovations that went entirely too long, I went back there maybe five times in the two weeks after they reopened. I'm just waiting for their soft-shell crabs to get back in stock.

Alison Stewart: Jesse, thanks.

Jesse: Also, Ayat number 80, that place is great. Bay Ridge and they got one on Staten Island over by one in Industry City, but the one by Bay Ridge is just original and probably the best.

Alison Stewart: Jesse, thanks for calling in. Let's talk to Colin, who is calling from Nashville actually. Hi, Colin. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Colin: Hi. Thank you for having me. I typically live in New York, but I am in Nashville for a short-term job. Thank you, Pete. You're a great asset to the city and have been for years. I just wanted to add a recommendation. I don't know if you tried it. It's called Potluck Club in the lower east side. A great Cantonese American restaurant and a newer restaurant. It's really good. I do really like the state of the list. Love the high ranking on Via Carota, I Sodi, Gabriel Kreuther, love the list. It's very accurate, and I would recommend Potluck Club.

Alison Stewart: That's on Chrystie Street actually. Hey, thanks for calling in Colin. Come back to New York soon. Listeners, as we discuss Pete's list, there are a few ways you can join the conversation. You can tell us if you've eaten at one of the places on Pete's list. We also want to hear from you about some of the very specific sidebar mentions in the piece. We want your thoughts on NextGen pizzerias that are doing it right, great Japanese noodles that aren't udon, your favorite bar with great snacks, and best Caribbean food.

212-433-9692, 212-433 WNYC, or you can tweet to us @AllOfItWNYC or DM us on Instagram @allofitwnyc. Or maybe they want to pitch a list that you'd like to see a food journalist tackle. Kate and I have been thinking best bars to read a book in.

Pete Wells: That's such a good one.

Alison Stewart: That's a good list. Right? Before we dive into your list, this is the broadest question, but I'm genuinely interested. Broadly, what makes a good restaurant?

Pete Wells: Oh, gosh, I think it can be so many different things. It can be so many things, but there does, at some level, have to be an attention to the customer. Maybe that sounds obvious, but there has to be somebody in the place somewhere who really cares about what your experience is going to be. Sometimes it's just the chef or the cooks in the kitchen and the dining room staff is a little Laissez-faire, but sometimes it's the entire house. Sometimes everybody's on the same page and they're all focused on your experience, but if nobody cares about your experience, you're really on your own.

Alison Stewart: All right. Let's start at the top of the list. You name Tatiana Kwame Onwuachi, which is Restaurant, which is in Lincoln Center. He's actually been a guest on this show. And you said it makes you feel hopeful, makes you feel hope for the future. Why is that?

Pete Wells: Oh, this is a restaurant that is really implicitly and explicitly about inclusion, about staking ground, reclaiming ground, and filling in, I think, some spots that have been left empty in New York. There has not been a lot of serious attention to, say, Caribbean food, although there are a lot of us who run around trying to find the best patties and the best jerk, but it's not often been seen given the serious, intense attention to detail that Kwame is giving at Tatiana. Why not? Let's see more of it, let's pay more attention to the Afro-Caribbean food that New York is so rich in. Let's really celebrate it and dig down into it.

Alison Stewart: His memoir Notes from a Young Chef is a terrific book. That's what we talked to him about. I remember there's a part of his story where he was selling candy on the subway to get money to start his catering business.

Pete Wells: Yes, yes.

Alison Stewart: I really never thought about someone selling candy on the subway. I felt, thought, differently about it ever since. You never know what someone's story is, you never know what their trajectory could be, you never know what maybe that dollar is helping to start. He's a very, very young man.

Pete Wells: Yes, I thought the same thing too. I used to look at those guys and be like, I don't need candy in the afternoon and now I think, oh yeah, it's only a dollar. It's only $2.

Alison Stewart: Who knows? Who knows who you're helping? It's interesting because he's a great chef. You can still have a great chef and have a restaurant fail. What has to be in place for a restaurant to succeed outside of the chef being great and the food being great?

Pete Wells: Oh, I think a lot of things have to be in place. In New York, it often comes down to the neighborhood. If you're a block too far from the subway, you could be in trouble, if you're in a part of town people don't want to go to, if you're in a space that's had five failed restaurants, people will just assume that you're carrying the curse as well. There're so many things. You could just be off by one little thing.

You could have a bad week when you first opened. Way more places fail than succeed. When I look back at the 10 or 11 or whatever, how many years I've been doing this, there are so many places that I really, really liked and gave very positive reviews to that sort of sank without a trace. They just made it for a year or two, maybe three, and then they closed quietly and everybody moved on.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Isabel calling from Brooklyn Heights. Hi, Isabel, thanks for calling All Of It.

Isabel: Hi. I think I came in at the right time because the place that I was going to recommend, I think is the combination of a lot of elements that make it successful, including the subway, the time that it opened, the neighborhood, et cetera. I wanted to recommend Inga's, I'm sure you've already been there, but for the audience.

Pete Wells: I had a feeling you were going to say that when you started describing the elements and that you were in Brooklyn Heights, so I was thinking I know that place.

Isabel: Yes, I actually locked out myself during the pandemic and I moved into a great spot. Just a lot of good things happened that fell into my lap, but I landed a rent-controlled apartment on Cranberry and--

Alison Stewart: Wow, you are lucky.

Isabel: Yes-

Alison Stewart: Tell us about Inga's,

Isabel: - and they opened--

Alison Stewart: I want to hear about Inga's a little bit.

Isabel: Yes, sorry. I'm a storyteller, sorry. It opened down the street and it used to be a different restaurant and now it's just this really beautiful, cozy bar/seating area restaurant. They have an incredible cheeseburger, they have great surprising wine list, they have an amazing brunch, they have a variety of -- You got to check it out. Let's see, last brunch I had Greek yogurt, they did a sliced grape, homemade granola, and honey. More than anything, I recommend the cheeseburger and the bitter greens.

Alison Stewart: Inga's, thank you. Isabel, thank you for calling. That's Inga's in Brooklyn Heights. I'm on their Instagram, it does look good. Let's talk to Michael from the East Village. Hi Michael.

Michael: Hi. What an honor. I follow Mr. Wells avidly and I really dug into this 100 best and was shocked to see that I'd been to a few.

Pete Wells: Good.

Michael: My story is about, a friend of mine came to visit me from Hamburg and he works in pizza, so we went to pizza everywhere in addition to soup dumplings in Flushing. He really did some research and was my guide in my hometown. We stopped in at Scars Pizza. It's not a place I would've gone into if it was just me passing by because it looked like a dive, but the people inside were so friendly and the staff was so friendly and the pizza was delicious. How can you not love it?

Pete Wells: Yes, I think it's a serious pizza joint, masquerading as a dive.

Alison Stewart: Scars is.

Pete Wells: Yes.

Alison Stewart: When you say serious pizza joint, what do you mean?

Pete Wells: I mean, they're geeking out on the details in there. It's not just like some joint, they're grinding the flower in the basement or something, which I wouldn't do, and I love Pizza. It seems like a place that's been around forever, just getting the mozzarella from the pizza supply company, but it's not that.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Pete Wells, we are talking about his list of 100 Best Restaurants in New York City. We're also taking your recommendations specifically for some of the sidebar mentions in the piece. We want to know about NextGen Pizzas doing it right. We just heard about Scars, great Japanese noodles that aren't Udon, your favorite bar with great snacks and best Caribbean food. 212-433-9692, 212-433 WNYC is our number. Social media is at All Of It WNYC. After the break, we'll head to Queens and the Bronx and hear more about Pete's List. Thanks.

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Alison Stewart: You're listening to All Of It. I'm Allison Stewart. My guest at this hour is Pete Wells, New York Times restaurant critic and creator of the list of 100 best restaurants in New York City. Number 9, you have the Queen's Night market. Not traditionally, we think of it as a restaurant. Why did it deserve to be in the top 10?

Pete Wells: I tried to think outside the box with restaurants. I used to think as long as there's a place to sit, I'll consider it a restaurant and now I think, well, who needs to sit down? Queens Night Market is a food bazaar with tents and tents and tents of people cooking stuff that is from all over the world. That's the really wonderful thing about it. It really gets around the globe.

There are things you can have there that I don't know of a restaurant that serves some of these cuisines but you can get it at the Queens Night Market. There will be a Columbian restaurant that serves food from a region of Columbia that is not represented in the city already. It's just fascinating to march around and see what's there. Almost nothing is more than $6. A lot of it's $5, so you could just forage until you drop.

Alison Stewart: You write, for the past decade, there hasn't been any doubt that the city's best Thai restaurants or an Elmhurst, Queens. The trouble was picking just one. The debate was settled last year with Zob Zob. What makes Zob Zob stand out?

Pete Wells: Gosh, I think they have a great chef who has terrific range. Almost everything comes from the Isan region of Thailand, but there are types of dishes that I don't remember seeing before. There are just all kinds of things. There's rotisserie stuff in these little steamed sticky rice bundles and the papaya salads that that region is so known for. If he's making sauces in the kitchen, there were like, I don't know, maybe a dozen different sauces. Each one of them was just so precise and delicious. It's really like one of those times where you feel like a guiding sensibility behind every single thing on the menu just trying to bring it to its full brightness and deliciousness.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Wallace calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Wallace. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Wallace: Hey, good afternoon. Thank you, Pete Wells. You're a gift to the city and to journalism.

Pete Wells: Thank you.

Wallace: [chuckles] My pleasure. For two of the categories you're asking for, one, Japanese that's not Udon is Sobaya in the East Village on 9th Street.

Pete Wells: That's a great place. I used to live near there and went there often.

Wallace: For Caribbean is Peppa's in Prospect Lefferts Gardens, I guess it's Peppa's Jerk Chicken or it's just Peppa's. The owner's name is Peppa, P-E-P-P-A's, and it's on Flatbush Avenue just south of Parkside.

Alison Stewart: What do you get when you go there?

Wallace: Jerk chicken. It's the only thing I think I've ever seen anyone get or the escabeche fish.

Pete Wells: Is that the place where they put the pans over the chicken while it's on the grill so it all gets smoked as it's sitting on the grill? The grill's right in the window?

Wallace: Oh, no. The grill's not in the window. You walk in, and there's nowhere to sit, but it's right across from Prospect Park, so you can take your food there.

Pete Wells: Right. I know where you are.

Wallace: Yes, you got to order quickly. They're not shy with the meat cleaver. It's pretty loud and rambunctious and it's probably the best jerk chicken I've had in the city.

Alison Stewart: Wallace, thanks for calling in. Another selection on the list, which isn't fine dining, whatever that means to you, is La Piraña Lechonera. Am I saying that right? Close?

Pete Wells: La Piraña Lechonera, yes.

Alison Stewart: Thank you. In the South Bronx. It seems like the atmosphere is part of the whole experience there. What do you experience when you go there?

Pete Wells: Definitely. You're going to experience a couple of hours generally because there's almost always a line. He's there on Saturdays and Sundays usually. People just come from all over and it proceeds at its own pace, which is one guy in the trailer and maybe five people can fit in there at once. He greets you when you come in, but he might not take your order for a while.

When he takes your order, he might turn around and forget it and come back to you. You're just going to be there enjoying salsa music, enjoying the neighbors, and soaking up the smell of roast pork. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\Then when the roast pork comes, it's perfect. It's just this crunchy skin that's like candy and just beautiful plantains. Everything is made with just such old-fashioned care like grandma or grandpa's cooking.

Alison Stewart: I love the word care. I think that's important.

Pete Wells: Yes. It's definitely not like precision tweezer cuisine, but it is made with great care.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Bill calling from Ellenton, Florida. Hi, Bill.

Bill: Hello. How are you, folks?

Alison Stewart: Great. What's going on?

Bill: I called to just tell you how much your show is torturing me today. I moved out of the city many, many years ago, and I haven't had a good meal since. All the New Yorkers, go to the restaurants, eat at the restaurants because if you ever leave New York, you're going to miss it.

Pete Wells: [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Bill, that is some good advice. Thank you for calling in. Pete, how are you feeling about some of these restaurants you'll see on TikTok and there'll be lots of influencers, like Lilia in Williamsburg.

Pete Wells: Oh, for sure, yes.

Alison Stewart: Is that having an impact on your work at all?

Pete Wells: I don't see anything on TikTok unless someone shows it to me.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Okay.

Pete Wells: I'm a little bit in the dark. I do sometimes feel like I'm eating something that only exists to become viral. Usually, it's a visual thing or something's like incredibly tall or has five different colors, but that's all right as long as it tastes good. I don't mind that so much. It's fine with me.

Alison Stewart: Any restaurant that we didn't get to that you want to make sure we touch on?

Pete Wells: Oh, I love them all.

Alison Stewart: There's two that I'm interested in. It's Chiquette, which is really hard to get to. I think you put the restaurant next to it on the list as well, which I walk by there a lot and it's never quite as full. I'm hoping to get some love.

Pete Wells: It's funny because they're almost like anagrams. They're right there next to each other on 9th Avenue. Chiquette is Eastern Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, a lot of Israeli influence but a very bright produce-driven, fresh, and energetic perspective. Chiquito is like a modern small plates version of Basque cuisine reinterpreted by Alex Raij and Eder Montero. I love them both. They're quite different. You're right. They're quite different. Chiquito is-

Alison Stewart: I like Chiquito.

Pete Wells: -casual, but a little more peaceful. Chiquitos is casual and completely raucous.

Alison Stewart: Yes, don't sleep on Chiquito. That's all I'm going to say. People, pick up 100 Best Restaurants in New York City from Pete Wells. If you don't have the hard copy like me, you can find it online as well. Pete, thank you so much for coming to the studio and taking listeners' calls. It was a lot of fun.

Pete Wells: Oh, thank you for having me. It's great to be here.

 

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