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W.N. my present city closer each week at this time Seymour and SIEGEL interviews people in the city government or other public officials tonight I discuss in his expanded to a full hour because of the special public interest and Mr Siegel's guess and what they have to say Now here is Mr SIEGEL How do you do writers and gentlemen to welcome a city close up Channel thirty one is delighted to make its facilities available to the candidates who are running for the office of Congressman in the seventeenth Congressional District of New York City. The candidates will each have an opportunity to explain the issues of the campaign they will then question each other and at the end they will have the opportunity of summing up why the writers of the seventeenth Congressional District should vote for either. We have first of all Mr Killen or Dani they Conservative Party candidate this is all no arsing French the Democratic and liberal party candidate and Congressman John Lindsay the Republican candidate who is the incumbent will start off first with Mr Dudley Mr diving you have such men. Thank you very much want to say that I want to thank you we're going to thank the facilities other than a simple radio television station Channel thirty one for providing this opportunity for a debate the substance of the real merits of this campaign in the seventy's congressional district. I'm particularly disturbed that Mr Lindsey has just counseling gave him a long standing to debate this campaign before the W. A.B.C. television network New York City network that is the Sunday despite the fact that this and gave and had been. Standing for at least really for a week and had twice been shifted in order to accommodate his schedule and he now states that his presence got to me makes it impossible to have this full hour of scheduled television debate of the issues of this campaign for the voters of this district I think that Mr Lindsey frankly like Lyndon Johnson is ducking debates I think he prepares to debate people are selected liberal audiences in the district and I want to particularly and I had the opportunity to debate him before the entire district Republicans and Democrats alike I think we have a campaign here where Mr Lindsey has a record which has consistently repudiated the Republican Party positions on issues before the Congress of course has repudiated the Republican national ticket this year he has and Congress crossed party lines the law to support the present Democratic administration than any other Republican congressman with the sole exception of Congressman Seymour how part of the Queen's County for this conspicuous record of disloyalty to party and principled a radical left pressure group the Americans for Democratic Action currently racist or lend the voting record in Congress at an astonishing eighty three percent by my arithmetic This leaves just about seventeen percent for Republicanism I'm going to lose the choose to run on the Republican line I'm sure that most of the Republican voters will have elected him to Congress believe me as a Republican but the record does not bear this out. I state this again he has crossed party lines more often than any other Republican congressman in support of this administration and key measures than any other Congress when any other Republican Congress or there are one hundred seventy eight presently in the house other than Seymour however to give you an idea of just exactly what this means on issues important issues before the country. And the recent session of Congress there was a Republican amendment by Congressman Balboa hile to bar subsidies on which it was to communist countries and this amendment failed to pass by only one vote Mr Lindsey led a small band of five Trojan Horse liberal Republicans across the line to help defeat this amendment. A member also sponsored by the Republican leadership to bar the United States' purchase of one hundred million dollars in UN bonds until the UN Assembly adopted the World Court opinion holding that member nations should pay their overdue financial obligations to the international organization was also the feed again by a small group of liberal Republicans crossing party lines led by Mr Lindsey. Mr Lindsey has followed this record in the in the time he entered Congress but the most conspicuous during the last four years the House Rules Committee was packed with the recall with liberals in the first months of the Kennedy on the ministrations again the margin of victory was provided by the liberal group headed by Congressman Lindsey Now this is not the kind of voting on record that is expected by Republican voters. We have in the back here and a a Republican and eighty a Republican this one will vote for the right as I told you earlier votes the eighty eight line eighty percent of the time that only leaves seventeen percent for the Republican position so in this context. Instead of having what you normally would expect from the two major party candidates alternate statements clearly displaying the major issues before the electorate of this campaign we have in fact a liberal Democrat and she of course is running on the true colors in the design of our Clark branch makes no bones about the fact that she is a liberal Democrat and she's proud of it she's a perfect right to be proud of it and to run under true colors I suggest that Mr Lindsey on the contrary is duplicitous he's masquerading as a Republican and in fact he's a Trojan horse planted the Republican right by liberals he is destroying Republican party unity and he in concert with Mr Rockefeller Mr Jobs is principally responsible for the disunity that we presently have a national campaign in the state of New York they are sabotaging the gold one another campaign this is an open secret it's not no longer an open secret it's perfectly open now we have the fact that Mr Keating who was a regular Republican for many years now going to deliver himself up to this cup by all this trio that is determined to have carry on a rule or room Republicanism either they have a their way or they all will not support their party now I do support the Goldwater men are second Furthermore I believe that is up to date at the ticket is going on to try and win November I want you to recognize the difficulties of this Senator Goldwater is climbing every single day I have reports in the Midwest in California that he is now upwards in the area of forty five percent in states where he was lower thirty five percent less than ten days ago I think we're going to win this campaign and Mr Lindsey has nothing to offer a poll of the Republican leadership in the house he can work with them I'll support the Republican national program I support the national platform adopted by the Republican Party in one hundred sixty four at the convention I think that platform is a sound like where Mr Lindsey hardly ever mentions. Thank you Mr. Leader McCulloch the Liberal Party can almost see front thank you so I say go it's nice to be with you here on W N Y C T.V. thing on leave of absence from the mayor's office I feel as if I'm coming home down here around city hall and I appreciate very much this opportunity that we have been given to give our views and debate some of the issues. And I want to make one correction of what Mr Doherty has said as far as my criticism of Congressman Lindsey is concerned I do not criticize the size him for being too conservative I say that he's Republican and this is my criticism and I do think that there are basic issues of difference between us the basic issues of difference between the Republican Party and the Democratic Party and these brief six minutes that are given to me I will confine myself to four issues which I think are the overriding issues which will face us in the years ahead and in this campaign the first is the issue of the of the candidacy of Senator Goldwater and I am in complete disagreement with Mr O'Doherty on this count I feel that the election of Senator Goldwater would be a disaster to this country that has a serious situation domestically and internationally. And that every one of us has a responsibility. To speak out against the election of this man I am against the election of Senator Goldwater Congressman Lindsey has said that he does not support Senator Goldwater but I contend that there is a great difference between saying you do not support and saying you are against the New York Post in an editorial recently raises the question of whether public officials in this case they were speaking of Governor Rockefeller but it would apply all set to Congressman Lindsey whether public officials. Have the right to plead the Fifth Amendment and not say whom they are going to support at the post I think we have a responsibility to live in the people of the peril of the country of the election of Senator Goldwater in the years ahead of us in the months ahead of us I feel that civil rights the full implementation of the Civil Rights Act is of crucial importance and I speak about New York City as well as other parts of the country we must be sure that there is equal opportunity for good housing good education and a judge good opportunity for a good job and advancement in in that good job for every man and woman in this city of ours. A. Very particular problem that is going to face us in the years ahead is that a full employment of finding ways and which every man and woman who wants to work in this country can do so automation is putting people out of work cut back on the defense outlay is putting people out of work and there is a great mass of young people coming in trying to get jobs the Federal Government to my way of thinking has a responsibility in this field we must spare private enterprise and the tax cut did this to help them to expand and create new jobs but there are also government programs which to my way of thinking are essential such as accelerated public works where we create jobs congressman and he does not agree with me here he has voted against accelerated Public Works other projects such as the area Redevelopment Act which is helping private enterprise to expand by priming the pump with not very much money it is producing a great deal of money through help to private enterprise which in turns produces jobs he the congressman does not agree with me here he voted against increasing funds for the area Redevelopment Act and now we are without funds though there are projects in Harlem is the project in Harlem and wanted Bedford Stuyvesant which desperately needs these money now perhaps at the time that the vote was taken in sixty three there was still a little money in the get it but that money was already committed and has run out disastrously just at a time when this is so needed and finally the last point that I want to make is the point of redistricting the Supreme Court ruled in June that we should be district state or our states so that state legislatures will be elected on a one man one vote. Election so that here in New York City the citizens of New York City do not have the. Over the upstate photos have awaited vote where one vote it upstate in some areas is worth ten votes here our representation is very unfair on that basis now there are have been many proposals in Congress including one of US Senate a job cuts which would change the Supreme Court really so was that one state one member of the house of the state legislature would be redistricted other than on a one man one vote basis Senate a Javits said on September twenty fourth on the floor of the Senate and I quote I have introduced substantially the same amendment offered by Representative McCullough and the other body that proposal would produce a statewide referendum to determine whether the people of that state wish one house of its legislator a portion according to population this would oppose how Hardly I think this is one of the crucial issues that would preserve the one man one vote basis of electing our state legislatures thank you and thank you Mrs French and the Republican. Congressman John Lindsay. Well friends I say go thank you for this opportunity to discuss the seventeenth Congressional district and its representation I wish immediately to put it rest the statement that was made by Mr O'Doherty And the question of T.V. debates I think I've debated more than any other congressional incumbent in the United States my two opponents and I have debated on N.B.C. T.V. We have debated a total of five hours on radio we've debated upwards of a dozen times before groups and audience in the seventeenth Congressional District we've gone on and on the A.B.C. television the debate that was scheduled was canceled by A.B.C. and I gave them two or three other dates which were not satisfactory to them my schedule is a full one I was perfectly happy to meet the agreed date and I'm sorry that A.B.C. chose to cancel out on us on the statement that was made by Mrs French on the question of my nonsupport of Senator Goldwater the New York Post which she referred to ran an editorial commending they for my courageous position stated that I may have damaged myself very deeply in my own party circles because of my stand on principle but I also stated that The New York Post editorial writer stated that a body cation principle comes ahead of party regularity and that's the postulate on which I run and which I stand as the representative of the Congressional District. Still Dotty attacks me for being too liberal This is French attacks me for being too conservative both of them have one thing in common and that is how to get rid of Congressman Lindsey Mrs French has the view that party regularity is above everything else and that is a regular Democrat in Congress that she would vote exactly the way the whips told her to vote on her side which Mr Adachi takes the view that I should vote always exactly the way the whips tell me to vote on my side I have consistently taken the view that my job as the representative of the seventeenth Congressional District is to exercise an independent judgment for the voters and the constituents that I represent that my job is to call the shots as I see them to promote those programs and to support those bills and to oppose those bills that I think are in the best interests of all my constituents and of the nation I am not there to represent one party or the other party I'm there to represent a great congressional district and that I think for six years I have done I have been a full time Congressman I have provided service to the district in newsletters and reports and questionnaires every week come back to the constituency in order to see my constituents and get their ideas their opinions their suggestions and their complaints and these ideas have been translated into legislation. There has been a record of legislative accomplishment bills passed amendments passed which have my name on them in foreign affairs in housing in education in conservation in a whole multitude of areas where few congressmen with a six year term of office have been able to reach such a result I have received the endorsement of the National Committee for an effective Congress which is a nationwide organization designed to improve the machinery and the workings of the United States Congress in this campaign I have the endorsement of the F. of L N C I O in all past campaigns I've had the endorsement of every single morning and evening paper in New York City in the editorial columns and I hope that I will have them all again. And I submit that this representation has been marked by some specific highlights which I think of been good for the Congress for the country and for the seventeenth Congressional District I point to the fact that the Civil Rights Act of one nine hundred sixty four came out of the Judiciary Committee of which I'm a member and I was one of a small handful of men who wrote that bill who broke the law jam that kept it jammed up in the Judiciary Committee right through the point even of the great national march on Washington by citizens from all over the country and I received the commendation of the N A C P N A dozen other organizations and of good government groups for my role in that bill I was one of the four fraud managers to help get that bill through in three weeks of argue was debate beat down some one hundred fifty killing amendments that were that were offered against it including amendments offered by the Democratic majority whip of the U.S. House of Representatives and which of course demonstrates that what we need here in this organization in order to get specific accomplishment in a Congress that has rigid rules is sufficient flexibility within the parties and between the parties so that legislation ultimately can be passed which is in the best interests of the country I take pride in the fact that I was one of the few members who took the floor in opposition to the TUC bill which was a bill designed to strike back at the Supreme Court for what the court had done in the area of reapportionment I support the theory that the cities and suburbs should have greater representation in cities and suburbs have been under represented in state legislative bodies and it was for that reason that I spoke against and voted against the TUC bill here again once again the bill which was a slap at the Supreme Court and which hurt they take the case the Supreme Court had decided it was supported by an overwhelming members of Congress including many on the Democratic side and indeed including the majority leader a Democrat indicating once again that this kind of or. Every stamp approach to the legislative process is not in the best interests of the country or of the Congress I submit that my representation has been one that has been independent has call the shots as I've seen them that I've exercised the judgment that in each case that has been a progressive one and that has been helped and on that record I choose to run in this campaign. Thank you very much Congressman Lindsey and none of the candidates will answer questions posed by the others who are still dining with direct questions please to Mrs French and then to Congressman rooms A and when you please confine your answers to one. Of your leaders in this city and state and you give me the best argument you can of why liberal Democrats should not desert their own party and their own candidates to support liberal Republicans like Mr Lindsey in this Javits I believe that party. You financing out within your own party you fight it out in primaries you disagree on the party principles and you fight it out in the primaries the primaries are over and the party gets together and work things out to fight Republicans I think it's very important and I'm very proud of the fact that if elected to Congress I will not have to part cross across party lines because I agree with the democratic principles of course I will never be met by the Crips as Congressman Lindsey keeps saying this is a must ridiculous statement for anyone to make who knows me and he's he knows me well enough by now after all these debates to now that I am not a person that I am told what to do I make up my own mind but in the context of the Democratic. Congressman Lindsey we've just heard you boast of the endorsement of the left wing National Committee for affected Congress and of course the pro democratic pro-labor group A.F.L.-CIO Trades Council here in New York City are you also proud of your eighty three percent rating from the Americas a democratic action and are you sorry that Mrs French this year obtained the endorsement of the Greenwich Village East Side chapter after the two ballot contest when you got in one nine hundred sixty. First answer that is that nine hundred sixty I did not receive the endorsement of. Then did not endorse either candidate that was running Secondly. This business of rating the performance of legislators in the United States Congress. On the basis of some percentage rating that some outside organization has created to me is utter nonsense this is kind of judging a man is X. percent gone are bad X. percent god or devil X. percent liberal or conservative this is not right or proper in my own judgment again I repeat that my representation has been one that is called every issue and studied every issue as it's come up and indeed I've been in the front on many of them and have helped get measures of bills and amendments through that have been helpful to the city of New York and a constituency that I represent. A number says front would you be going up to direct a question to Mr Donnelly and then to Congress looms this Jared already how many bouts do you think you're going to get that's a very good question I'm going to try to get as many votes as I can of course I really can tell my basic appeal of course is to regular Republicans of the conservative Republicans and frankly Mrs French will you may be a little disturbed with some of the other blind Democrats who might feel that the everything wing of the Democratic Party is perhaps a little bit too in moderate in its attempt to purge the party of the moderate elements I think that is so far as I can communicate Mr Lindsey is record in particular after all he's the incumbent they're regularity that is important that the Republicans in this district recognize they have a man hero has does not support the Republican Party in any basic essential. System then take. Well you state an unequivocal that you are against Senator Goldwater I've stated very clearly right from the beginning for a long period of time and received a good deal of controversial abuse for it that I'm not supporting the candidacy of Mr Goh that's not what I have said I'm sorry my friend you and I actually and this is French and I ask you not and I ask to beg you not to interrupt Well you're not and I question when I am when I'm speaking out I ask you not to interrupt and I agreed to this format on the basis that we have a decent debate and that you not start cat fighting on this kind of thing and I have stated over and over again what my position on this every editorial paper and united in this district and across the country has understood clearly what my position is it's one of independence it's one of nonsupport I'm running on my record and I think that the people of New York understand this and respect me for it if you don't understand it Mrs French I'll be glad to send you the statement that I have to stay and I will send you any number of copies of various editorials from the Times to The Tribune to the post to upstate and to work across the cuts wanted to send us on this subject sitting on the fence another way. French would we please. I must ask that you control this panel discussion I will do the best I can comes to the Right now the question was posed early loses for. Mr Daddy what do you plan to do for the country and for the seventeenth Congressional district of an affirmative made in the firmament of nature should you be allowed to I'll do something that you can't do it all Mr Lindsey first of all I work with the Republicans in the house and you've never worked with them you couldn't get the time of day probably House Republican leadership and you know you haven't gotten a single important to sign to been begging for a position of the Foreign Affairs Committee ever since you went on there instead of thank you I was a kind of honorary and bash the door to NATO where I think I don't think your book is of a particularly effective leader certainly you haven't had any boys it seems to me to be open to Senator Goldwater has against the disintegration of the NATO alliance with. Occurred in the last four years when are you going to criticize this administration Mr Lindsey let's not kid ourselves you're a member of the opposition and you know I said I can support the Republican party I support the Republican national ticket it was elected to office I will work with it you will never work with it you have to work with Republicans in the last six years you're a Trojan horse and that's all there is to it. Mrs French. Nine hundred sixty two you were content to be the candidate of Mr the sappy Oh and the Tammany Hall organization and after that the last it's foothold and was losing you shifted to be a reformer now I ask you on the basis of that record how can the voters of the seventy's congressional district expect you to perform an independent role and exercise an independent judgment in your role as a U.S. congressman should you be elected Well I think you've got to get your the voters can trust you on your accuracy you're quite wrong I did not run in one nine hundred sixty two for any office I was commissioned to the United Nations of nine hundred sixty two and working as a member of the Commission on Human Rights and I was ninety six one that you were in one nine hundred sixty I was a candidate for the State Committee in the one nine hundred fifty nine as vice chairman of the Democratic State Committee I was a leader in the insurgent fight in our hill against the organization the Tammany organization this was a very courageous thing to do as the vice chairman a member of an official of the party I fought the organization here in New York City and we won in one nine hundred fifty nine I was already a reformer in the one nine hundred sixty to reform clubs in the district which they have a face to seventy gastric supported me in my candidacy I have been a reformist since one thousand nine hundred fifty nine and even before we still don't have any question from Mrs function comes from and Mrs French. Could you tell me essentially where you believe Mr Lindsey and his voting record highs. Definitely gone outside the area of Democratic Party support of this administration I tried to say that in one minute it's essentially in the areas of helping our economy in the areas of creating full employment such as as I said in my preliminary remarks the Public Works area redevelopment and this kind of his attitude that we. Know increasing the debt limit he has voted against that even though Secretary Duncan wanted it Secretary Senator Javits voted for it in only sentences Saturday Javits I may say has support of the Democratic administration but Congressman Lindsey has voted against this. Congressman Lindsey what's your latest position now on the issue of the neighborhood school last year when you were through Mark you were reported in upstate New downstate papers as supporting the Princeton plan approach and supporting bussing out as a sound approach that your language and the area group of people have signed and Lately however you've been stating that as a federal law but if you can't comment on this I'd like to see how do you explain the inconsistency of these two positions. Mr Dart in my position has always been and continues to be that first of all this is a problem for the Board of Education and that politicians should not be attacking the board of education in a very difficult and sensitive area secondly that I favor the neighborhood concept for schools thirdly that I think the board of education ought to be supported in those areas where it has adopted the Princeton plan approach in some contiguous areas this is a perfectly proper and sound approach and others it is not each area rests on its own merits and its own situation and a federal officer is not in a position to pass judgment on any particular school district area and I do think that in this long struggle to see to it whether schools and housing can be improved in New York that it is not helpful to. Have politicians running for office and inject themselves in what should be the independence of the school board. This is crunch a question for Mr Dunne and Congressman to Mr outdoor AT A F elected what would be your position on the redistricting I would I am opposed to the present Supreme Court decision or redistricting and I think it is a shame that the liberal block again of Republicans in the Senate led by Javits and Keating the seat of the proposed move by Senator Dirksen who is a representative and responsible Republican will have a resolution from the house calling for a moratorium on this decision until a sufficient legislation is necessary a constitutional amendment was enacted to deprive the supreme court of jurisdiction in this important area they eat Supreme Court again as entered into an area that has disturbed a longstanding representative processes I do not believe that we are in the one man one vote process I do believe that there there can be as there is in the federal system a system of representation that is proportionate in certain areas of interest other than merely population after all we elect senators of the best basis as maintained by the upper house of the federal Congress we have two senators Reid state I think the I think that certain areas deserve better representation than merely by population. Mr Men say I have crowded Senator Javits a statement on the floor of the Senate about what he proposes to curb the Supreme Court ruling if such an amendment. Is introduced and if you are re-elected how would you vote on that Javits McCullagh out. I haven't seen any constitutional proposals language yet that I think is right on this subject of reapportionment I am a member of the House Judiciary Committee we are in hearings now will continue to be in hearings after the election and after the opening of the new Congress in January of one nine hundred sixty five on the question of reapportionment a whole series of proposals have been suggested some are state statutes some are proposed constitutional amendments in the area of reapportionment and we'll be studying all of them I have not yet seen language that I think might not do more damage than good in this area of reapportionment and the representation of cities and suburbs in legislative bodies I do think that in some of the later decisions of the Supreme Court that the court went on necessarily far in making. The exact population rule applicable to both houses of a bi cameral state legislature in Colorado for example this has made it very difficult to report the formula that was established a few years ago but we'll be examining that and whether the new language can come up and be agreed to I'm not sure I doubt it comes with Lindsey you live the right to question Mr Does Mrs French Mr Darley. The National Review a conservative newspaper magazine has stated very flatly that your objective and the objective of your party in this campaign is to destroy Lindsay. You're the idea of your interjection is to remove me as the congressman from the seventeenth Congressional District. Is that correct is that your objective Well my second why did you not run in the primaries and let's make it very clear my objective and I hope the objective of Mrs French is the trunk fueling this campaign I would do my very best to do that I think it's important and I further of course I can understand that a man who considers himself the district pride and the nation's hope thinks it's a matter of a piece of temerity for even I would offer many opposition let me assure you. I'm opposing you with all the first at my command the National Review article of course did not use the terminology to destroy you we don't want to destroy you we simply want to retire you to private life there are induce you to do to want to act according to principle now and in the future and do what Mr Morris did in similar circumstances ten years ago declare yourself in your true party affiliation and don't go about trying to monopolize principle when in fact you are being unprincipled by voting against your party repeatedly in the house and failing to support your party and basic issues before the country you're a liberal and let's run a true colors in the future Mr Landor. Congressman a question for Mrs French Mrs friendship over and over again in this campaign you have taken me to task for not voting for more and more funds for various programs and additional amounts of money should you be elected to Congress from the seventeenth Congressional District How would you propose to pay for the very large amounts of federal money that you were very quickly ready to make available on all subjects these monies have been available and in many instances have been voted in spite of the fact that you did not vote for them and that's kind of the Javits that out of the answer you haven't answered my questions are I'm about to answer your question we are having a rising economy we're getting more money from taxes every year and under the democratic in an expression I expect that we will continue to have a very healthy economy Furthermore it has been estimated that the creases in the defense outlay by nine hundred seventy are going to reduce government government expenditures in this field by twelve billion seven hundred thousand dollars there is going to be money available which can be put to use in building schools and helping people find jobs and all that social welfare projects which I think are so essential. To. Still Dharma and question people are our listeners function comes through and. This is French for Mr luthier Congressman Lindsey rather responded to me that he didn't really respond to my question directly whether or not he was proud of having gone to the second ballot only recent meeting the eighty eight or whether he was proud of his eighty three percent eighty eight rating how would you comment upon the fact he has an eighty three percent pro A.B.A. rating. Well I think that he has crossed party lines in certain areas and he does A.B.A. rating does not coincide with the Congressional Quarterly writing which writes him against the administration believes in that area he has supported the administration both sixty five percent of the time it's not as high as eighty eight rating and this is my comment I see Congressman Lindsey you failed to support this community's operation Yorkville drive of the last year against obscene and pornographic publications in the area is a serious problem if you're well aware you're also a bit against a bill in the house to curb the sending of Marley offensive men material through the mail and this bill passed the House three hundred twenty five to nineteen under the leadership of Congressman Glenn Cunningham Republican of Nebraska How do you account for this position. First of all up I believe in the sanctity of the First Amendment and the Bill of Rights in the Constitution first obscenity bill so-called that I voted against it was some years ago that to pass the House but then because of its I think unconstitutional nature with some others in the Justice Department rewrote it and got a good bill through the Senate and that Bill came back to the house and was passed so I will claim credit for and the obscenity bill that was a constitutional one and one that safeguarded personal liberties in this Congress another bill was proposed which I also think was unconstitutional and I voted against it along with a great many other members of Congress that bill did not pass the Senate because it had the opposition of the Justice Department which gave an opinion letter saying it was unconstitutional is violative of the First Amendment and it also had the opposition of the postal department the Post Office Department which is always been running crusades against obscenity but that department said that the bill was not only unconstitutional but was on enforceable and unworkable as well I have supported operation Yorkville but I think it's important to do so in the context of what is right and proper under our Constitution. This is French a question for Mr Dunning and Congressman Lindsey Mr identity how would you propose to. Solve this problem of unemployment in the next few years I would solve it by using the standard American approach of a free enterprise economy that in fact has brought a steady increase in their standard of living from the time of the cotton gin and eight hundred one to the present time the adoption of this free enterprise outlook by post-war Europe has brought an unprecedented spurt of prosperity because they have grown up the red tape regulations that presently characterize Unfortunately a great deal of our government interference in the free enterprise market I'm convinced that given a given this kind of unleashing to American ingenuity the unmoved growing. Flowing through particularly the retention of a sufficient capital in American hands for further investment in machine tools a new industries we would have a tremendous spirit had an American industry this is the American way to do these things not an attempt to pile on if you would suggested Mr Libby suggest more federal programs and how really an urban renewal mass transit air pollution What have you. Mr Lindsey you have not answered either of the two questions I posed to you with a direct answer my last question I asked you if you agreed with Senator Javits and his proposal and you made a long speech about something else now this question which I'm about to to ask you can be answered with a yes or no answer the question is this if you are elected next year well let me begin with another sentence that has been suggested by some people that you would be the ideal Republican candidate for mayor next year my question is this if you are elected to Congress will you pledge to fill out your full term of two years in Congress. I don't know I can't answer that question if I'm elected to Congress I expect to do the best job I possibly can what the whole what the future holds in store I don't know I think that New York City is the greatest city in the world I was born here and I love it and I would never turn my back on New York City under any circumstances I expect to fill out my term I'm elected for a two year term and I want to serve that term and I hope to but to make events pledges on whether I'm going to be here there are not run for this and not do this I think is is not called for. Congressman Rangel question for Mr Dunne immerses front. Mr O'Doherty your attacks on me have been pretty rough ones you claim that I'm much too liberal these two points I would like you to clear up for me how do you explain the fact that the Liberal Party has not endorsed me but hasn't Dorst Mrs French and why is it that you did not run in. The Republican primaries against me if you claim that I'm such a poor Republican you had an opportunity to do that and some of your colleagues have had opportunities to do it and yet you let it go by unchallenged well as of the first question Mr Lindsey I just heard you both four or five days ago before an American Jewish Congress meeting here in which we three of us debated you the majority of the Liberal Party members in fact to support you despite the fact that the nominal endorsement has always gone to the Democratic candidate only rarely can the Liberal Party break with this policy obviously they fail to support every form Democrat they will be subject to grave grave criticism of their own rights I agree grab your record doesn't joy that doesn't deserve their investment now of course I can't I could not run in a Republican primary because I am an enrolled member of the Conservative Party and I'm surprised at you as an attorney don't know the election laws sufficiently well to realize that one must be a member of the Republican Party to enter every public and primary I'm sorry Republican didn't oppose you in the primary I'd like to have seen that because you had a further airing of your record of party dismantling So the voters of this district would know a good deal more about it going into this campaign but I'm going to do my best in the remaining three weeks and will best relentlessly expose it now. Mrs friendship. One of the problems in the United States House of Representatives is its existing power structure and some of the difficulties we've had is because of the seniority system which has resulted in eleven out of thirteen of the committee chairmen in the House of Representatives being Democratic conservatives from the south. What would you propose to do to change this system if anything I think that they have a question of congressional reform is something that has got to be tackled and the Congress convenes in January not only a question of seniority system but getting getting bills out of the House Rules Committee and stopping the filibuster in the Senate all these things have got to be faced head on and the time is already kill night and how to disagree of this in your. The system and I would propose that it be changed there are various ways in which it can be changed by appointment of the speaker of the house or election whatever it might be I think that people should be. Should become chairman of committees on ability and not seniority I have worked with Southern senators on the platform committee and I know they are obstructionist tactics and there is absolutely no reason in my way of thinking why you should be a chairman of the committee just because you're an old man who has been there a long time and comes from a safe seat and therefore does not have to really be honest tellers and responsive to the desires of the people I would press home heartedly for changing the sonority system. Well now we have five minutes apiece for our summary Mr Darling one should you be elected congressman from some two congressional districts. I believe I should be elected congressman for the seventeenth Congressional District because I'm running on a clear statement of principles I support the Goldwater Miller ticket I believe it's incumbent upon any man to present as a public office in this important campaign year to take a clear position for war or against the major party seconds that are before the country in this enormously important time. Now Mr Lindsey has adopted the tactics which I consider desirable. Merely to support the ticket and yet attempting to acquit the case on the issue trying to get around it and also attempting as he clearly is doing to use my opposition which followed after his disavowal of the national ticket on after his record of party disloyalty as a purported excuse for what he refers to as his independence and courage and principle one of course. There are all manners of principles I grant you this Congressman Lindsey has principles his principles are a whole hearted devotion to the liberal cause at least that's what his record will show he has supported the Liberal cause and Congress for the past six years now I think a vital two party system presupposes a clear and distinct presentation about turn of the positions I agree with Mrs French and she states that in the Democratic Party this important contest is a viewpoint be recognized and I believe it's a matter of conscience for every registered member of the Democratic Party to recognize that they have an obligation and a responsibility to their candidates just as the registered Republicans have an obligation and to their candidates if they bring in fact their candidates I'm asking the Republican voters of this district in particular to examine Congressman Lindsay's credentials. We have another way Morse in our hand in this district and he means to achieving very high office there's no bones about it you saw him duck the question for Mrs French just now he's not sure he's going to go for the mayor because he made a run for governor that's much more likely at least the New York Times and The New York presume seem to think he should go up to the governorship I don't think he's going to get the address of this year by the way of all the papers I don't know how he got it in the past but the New York Daily News had an interesting editorial in August that I have in my campaign literature which I'm going to be distributing to you over the past few weeks I want you to read this literature carefully even if in fact you don't agree with the conservatism right now the editorial states that Lindsay for years has acted like a man who is homesick for the Democratic if not for the Liberal Party O'Doherty virtually all real Republican specifications there are always suggests that the seventeenth Democrat vote for Mrs French that is liberals vote for Lindsay and that it's Republicans lined up suddenly for a dollar to you know I think that's a very fair proposal we've got about four or five thousand Liberal Party members in the district. I would think if they voted for Mr Lindsey I think they'd be voting for the man who represents their viewpoint and I think the Democratic candidate should receive a part of the heart of Democratic support. Now I I haven't gone into the details of a national program because I feel that you Roland are stand the position taken by the Republican Party nationally it's a position that's quite us what this little trickle sliver of a stream represented by Mr Lindsey and Mr Javits and a few others in this state Mr Rockefeller who probably will be a little too much longer I think you'll be retiring to Caracas very soon. It is a it is a position that stands for limited government in particular a recognition that we've gone to a point where the centralization of power I've brought in excess of. A central authority in this country that is critically interfering with our individual freedoms our federal spending has gotten to enormous proportions we're now in the area of a one hundred billion dollar budget in a scarce for years the Eisenhower administration's last budget was in the area even though you know we're today in a one hundred billion dollar budget in foreign affairs we think drift and defeats and Cuba's the Berlin wall Congo Ra's Vietnam we meet in the White House a man who will bring back American respect and esteem spec'd abroad for Americans we recognize as George Washington indeed recognize in his famous Farewell Address the best way to preserve peace and to be prepared for war this is a policy of peace through strength I can wholeheartedly support that. And I believe that most of the voters of this district really truly believe in that policy I think it's vitally important that we recognize that there should be alternative additions presented here Mr Lindsey has. Indeed in this foreign policy area and different of the members on the the important vote on the on the junket amendment has an area of internal security that's very disturbing I wonder if he still wants to abolish the House committee and Un-American Activities for eliminating oil or procedures in defense industries if he still takes a position that he alone says with Congressman whether that's right and so against the bill to ban the communist junk mail from being received here in the many homes for this district we thank you Mr Gardner the machine runs five minutes why should you be a watch good congressman from the sudden two congressional leaders that me begin my remarks by making a comment on the. Daily news item which Mr O'Doherty just read I don't know maybe you did not see the acid to that article in a letter to The New York Times written by Amos Basil the Cham of the county chairman of the Liberal Party where he said oh we don't want to mend the in the number of party we wouldn't accept him in the Labor Party voted against the land weapon act and there are other reasons why it's never a party could never endorse congressmen's And so he refuted this how great suggestion of The Daily News. The candidate of the Liberal Party as well as the Democratic Party and I am to the south I think that I will make the best representative in Congress from the seventeenth Congressional District first of all because I am an outspoken Democrat I am outspokenly in favor of the whole Democratic ticket and I will support them in the Johnson and here but Humphrey and I have their support I have the support they need is in the Democratic Party I have their respect. I think the congressman would be rather shocked if he had heard some of the comments that some of these latest in the House have read to me about him when they endorsed my candidacy saying we want someone who talks straight and who is not a double talker we cannot rely on this man when we need his help I would have a voice as a member of the Democratic Party in party councils and I think this is extremely important it's not enough just to be able to it's important but it's not enough to be able to discuss the legislation when it gets to the floor of the house you should be able to discuss it in party caucuses in party councils and have something to say on how you think that legislation should be frank this I would do as a member of the Democratic Party member of the Democratic delegation from New York I would not have to cross party lines to vote the way I think is right I would have been in there from the very beginning on the other hand Congressman Lindsey if he were to be elected could not be a voice for the seventeenth Congressional District because he wouldn't have a voice even in his own party his own party where the Goldwater is elected or not is the Goldwater party the National Committee is dominated by Goldwater people and he is not going to be accepted at all in Republican ranks he won't even have a say there so that it seems to me that he cannot speak up for the seventeenth Congressional District with any authority in any place. Now I would like to say just a few words about my background and my record here in New York and while I think I can represent the district I have been act I have been working hard at that at this level of a city level as a member of the Commission on Human Rights in the field of civil rights and working hard to say that this really is an open city that people can. Where they can afford to live and that we do get equal opportunity to every man woman and in this great city of this I have been doing work than night. And this is one of the most challenging issues of our day and the United Nations. With all of them. I have wonderful could give them advice. For what I have done that have. Better understanding and you have bettered the strength of the time between the United States and the United Nations this I have been able to do working here in New York City was a former teacher I am on the New York fund for children where we have explored the needs of the children of New York City we know the programs of the children and we know what still remains to be done as a teacher I am well versed in the problems of our school and I have been working in the house. And. Planning on of the ones the congressman. Might want to come the price was one of the ones that I didn't. Want to. Let that five and appeared seven times before that and stop the thing I have done where ever I see something wrong but I don't agree with and I think anyone who's been reading the papers recently knows that I got myself into the car with here what Humphrey the other organization did not think I should be there when traffic gets stuck move it I am a person of action I get things done and I say what's wrong when I think it's wrong and do my best to right that wrong I think I will represent this district very well. Thank you Mrs friend Congressman Lindsey five minutes why you should be reelected Congress approval was a congressional leaders. Once again thank you sigh Siegel for this chance to talk about the seventeenth Congressional District race I think it's in the public interest to provide this air time now you've watched this cozy question and answer period between Mrs French and Mr O'Doherty. Feeding each other questions designed of course to end in the destruction of the incumbent which is myself This is French is accepted this. Wonderful little trade between Mr Darby and herself I really am shocked that Mrs French would stoop to hearsay slander and her remark about what leaders in the Congress say about myself she has published that in writing in fact and I have talked to those leaders each of whom flatly denies it and say all I can say is that you're fortunate to have such a person running against you in the campaign the Guardian accuses me of being dishonorable in my posts to this campaign and to representation and try to me with not being a Republican of flying under different college and what is his base is against the Civil Rights Bill of one nine hundred sixty four which is a Republican bill as much as a Democratic bill is a good contribution this event education is against housing is against everything that has ever been suggested by any Republican president in the history of our country this is not a Republican approach to this get can buy this gentleman this is a never approach this is something that the Republican Party has never heard of before and come in to run up and defend paganism toward Republican representation and Republican candidate whoever they are this is divided will it this is a splinter party that is out to destroy. And I submit that my record is one of as some people of color have moderation and a strength and I fermented it is a record I bend it in the best interests of this community and that's been effective to Mr Dowdy from desperate because I've been appointed a delegate to NATO the dish I'm kind of a a difficulty I have been appointed by the Congress by the speaker by the leadership at the house delegate to NATO and I was elected by the fifteen NATO member nations as an officer of its people and it will Committee one of two Americans will hold that honor and I have worked with Secretary of State Russia and before him secretary of state her are Republican and bipartisan fashion in order to build the Atlanta community and my work has been noticed an editorial here and then put in the New York Times in the past I'm endorsing this campaign by better than Eisenhower by Senate and by Governor Rockefeller by the Republican state chairman here in New York State who not only endorse me fed my position in the campaign was exactly correct and we commend in the Ford. And I'm one of those who have been called at times the leader of a group of twenty five Republican members of the House of Representatives in the United States Congress who have been an effective force to bring about good legislation to offer alternatives to programs that were offered by the Democratic majority in a very large majority and by the administration and we have been an effective force in moden policy and we have been a constructive and effective force in our own party we are listened to and they must listen to us and we had now discovering that to our ranks we are recruiting new numbers I would expect that Mrs French should she be elected would be a member of a reform group in the House known as the Democratic Study Group this does not have the blessings of the leadership that is mistrusted by the leadership but that does not necessarily mean that all the members of that group are an ineffective group they provide a service this is a record I submit of accomplishment and where I an ineffective member of the House of Representatives either is a Republican on the Republican side of aisle or as a representative a tall this record of accomplishment would not be possible whether it's the NATO question that was raised by Mr O'Doherty or whether it is Lindsey legislation that has been passed and signed by the president and I have been at the White House for the signature signings when those bills have been passed and they range far and wide from domestic issues to foreign issues and they have been I think a service to the great congressional district that I wish you had the honor to represent. Thank you Congressman one for and we thank them with the name of our lesson plan has been done well on this edition of for the close up we hope that the program of help that viewers left from that to get another can but that I know a bit more about the issues and the actual death but we hope that this will enable you to go. Back and develop from Live in government and help you come tell one question we hope off of all of you and any of that well I don't like and I love for the credit of your kill count that one of them died I happy the microphone legal that put found that I was a con left and the FROM think of that of the head and you are the fool again likely. Thank you. Thank you. This has been another program I should be close on which Timor and shake up each week at this time members of my footy government or other public officials and a discussion with my fishy go to inform the citizens of the city about the work of their departments or agencies. Tonight special program presented the three candidates for the office of Representative to the United States Congress from the seventeenth Congressional district in Manhattan you heard Congressman John B. Lindsey Republican the incumbent Mrs Allen our clock French Democratic candidate and Mr Karan our door at a conservative party candidate. Join us again next week at this time for another program of city closer.