[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC Greene Space here in Soho.

[applause]

Yes that's what I'm talking about. Today we have an extra special show. There's a room full of people here to watch us make a live radio show. Thank you all in the studio and at home for sharing your day with us, whether you're here in-person, listening on the radio, live streaming if you're watching the live stream, really grateful everybody's here. We have an incredible lineup. The legendary Yo La Tengo is here, and they'll perform a special live set.

[applause]

We got drums, we got guitars, we got amps. Today is the release day for their new album, This Stupid World. We'll also speak to author and Books Are Magic owner, Emma Straub about her new kid's book about hats and how she found herself in the middle of this huge controversy. We have the founders of the Bronx Culinary Collective, Ghetto Gastro. They have built something amazing, they'll be out in a little bit. That is all on the way, so let's get this started.

[music]

Jordan Carlos is a creative renaissance man. He's a TV writer for shows like HBO's Divorce and The Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore. He's an actor, you've seen him on Black Mirror. He's the co-host with Michelle Buteau of the popular podcast Adulting, named by Ebony Magazine as a must-listen. By the way, that show has upcoming recordings of the Bell House on February 16th, March 12th, and 24th.

He's a standup comic who is quite adept at handling live audiences, so we thought he is perfect All Of It guest for our show in the Greene Space. He's a creator, he's someone can answer questions and he can work a room. Please welcome Jordan Carlos. Woo.

[applause]

Jordan Carlos: How are you?

Alison Stewart: Hello. There's hugs happening. You sit there.

Jordan Carlos: All right. Oh, my gosh.

Alison Stewart: He smells good for people listening on the radio.

Jordan Carlos: I see.

[laughter]

Thank you sublime, odorous emanations, that's my brand. Hi, everybody, how are we doing? I love everybody's got their NPR leg crosses going. This is really good. I'm so glad to be here. This is so cool. You're the best, I think.

Alison Stewart: Oh, thanks.

Jordan Carlos: Isn't Alison the best, everybody?

Alison Stewart: Thank you, you're so nice.

[applause]

Now you're the best at giving advice. You do it on your podcast all the time, so we're going to take questions from the audience in a little bit. If you want to write it on a card, I mentioned to people. People can also send it to our social media @allofitwnyc. We do hope you won't be shy, and you'll come up to the mics in a little bit. You can ask Jordan some Adulting type questions.

Jordan Carlos: I feel like the pressure is on now. You're like, "Let's get into advice right now. I love it."

Alison Stewart: How do you describe adulting?

Jordan Carlos: How do I describe adulting? I think that there's no other way to go but forward, and Adulting is like the germination. Oh, god, this is going to be all plant-based. Sorry, guys. I just feel like it's when you're done with adolescence and done being a kid and the world forces you to do a bit more and maybe you internally want more from this life and accept certain responsibilities. That's adulting. We do it every day.

Yesterday I became a landlord which is-- Thank you everybody for not applauding. I became a landlord yesterday. I know I look like I'm six years old, but I did it and I really set the goal, I made it happen. I felt so grown up, it's so weird. Then I was like, "Should I be like a typical landlord? Do I show up in a muscle shirt to collect the rent and be like, 'It's the 10th, let's go. What do you got?"

I don't want to be that guy, but it felt like I really wanted to do this, and I wanted to make it a reality for myself. I set the goal and then I did feel like a kid doing it, but I am presenting as a man. Here I am, this is it. It's goals, it's execution, CPE, concept, planning, and then execution. That's what I feel like being an adult is all about.

Alison Stewart: It's so interesting you shared that with us, because the beginning of every podcast, you and Michelle-- Sorry, folks over here. You and Michelle share a personal story. How do you decide what to share?

Jordan Carlos: I don't know, the audience will tell you really and then it'll well-up. Sometimes before the show, we'll talk about what we want to share, what feels good, what feels right. You realize that the story is the intersection of growth, of humility. One time I shared that I had to retrieve my wallet from the lagoon in Prospect Park, which has anyone ever done that before? Has anyone been paddle boating in Prospect Park? Okay, you've been?

Speaker 3: Yes.

Jordan Carlos: Did you lose any possessions?

Speaker 3: No.

Jordan Carlos: Good for you, good for all of us. Were you with your children?

Speaker 3: Yes.

Jordan Carlos: Okay, so you get this. All right. They're like long-legged. You seem like a tall guy.

Speaker 3: Not when they're little.

Jordan Carlos: My kids are little, they're like six years old and 10 years old, and so if we think of like T. rex arms, think of that for their legs. Basically we're out on these paddle boats in this lagoon and it's muck. We're going in giant circles.

I was wearing shorts and I heard a bloop like that, and my son was like, "Why is your wallet on the water?" I was like, "Good question, great question." I dove in, and it's-- Listen, all I have is night vision and lock jaw now, and it's fine.

[laughter]

It's mostly just radioactive isotopes down there. I went up and down and up and down for like 10 minutes covered in disgusting muck. Are you guys okay? Then finally, I came up, I produced the wallet, and then the lady who had rented us the boat who was just a big chain smoker and made us do all these other unnecessary steps she's like, "Give your ID to the people at the ice rink, then give a blood sample." I was like, "Whatever." We get back to the boathouse, and then she's like, "I've never seen anybody get their wallet out of the water in all the years I've been working this job."

Alison Stewart: I didn't know if Harvey Fierstein had a part [inaudible 00:06:57]. [laughs]

Jordan Carlos: It was Harvey Fierstein in a wig. I appreciated the work, I was like, "Oh, wow I love you, Harvey." You find those stories. You find those stories that say like, "Okay, I was being a good dad, and I was trying to be a good parent and give my wife some extra time to herself and take the kids out." That was my reward, was just going down to the depths, probably feeling on some skeletons down thereand getting it from the '80s and pulling out my wallet.

The stories are about the fact that we're not in the same boat but we're definitely in the same storm, and we have to deal with whatever life throws at us as adults. It's like when we find those stories that fit that, those are the stories we tell.

Alison Stewart: My guest is writer, storyteller and performer Jordan Carlos. It's interesting, it's really clear that you and Michelle are actual friends.

Jordan Carlos: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Very much so. There's a promo for one of your shows on your Instagram, and you guys are trying to do it, and you realize you're at a kitty party. You see this balloon sword just come up from under the bottom of the frame, and then you pull out and realize you guys are at a kitty party. Try to do promos professionally for your job.

Jordan Carlos: It was at Jane's Carousel, and we were trying to edit that out, but her young son, he's like four now, it's just like, "Eh, this is too fun." Made one of those long balloon, stick up through the frame. You can't help it.

I think that's also part of adulating, is to say a little bit goodbye to all that. Look at these people, they have so much hope in their eyes, and they're so young. There's like a Gen Z cluster of people over here and you're making me upset. We have to say goodbye to all that, and that's okay. That give and take, the sweet and sour of it all is what we try to document.

Alison Stewart: What's the best piece of advice Michelle has given you? You guys give a lot of advice going that direction. What has she given gone your direction?

Jordan Carlos: Take up more space. Take up morespace, everybody.

[laughter]

This is what you should do, take up all the space. [inaudible 00:09:20]. My therapist and Michelle tells me to take up more space. That's what I've been doing, and it's been great, it's been really good. Usually, I play second fiddle in my life, I was the middle child. Is anybody else the middle child out here? Anybody else an Aquarius out here?

Look in the back, raising their hand. I bet you get little umbrellas instead of big ones. You know what I'm saying, when it rains? You're just like, "Yes." Are you the kind of person that raises their umbrella like this and lowers it when people are passed by? "Yes, okay, we'll get coffee later." I think she said, "Just take up more space," and I love doing that now. I've tried it the other way. I've tried being a dormouse in New York City, and it sucks. Taking up more space, yes, you can ruffle some feathers, but I like it. I love that Mich told me to do that.

Alison Stewart: Some of the titles of episodes of Adulting are How Late is Too Late to Venmo Someone Back? Is it Inappropriate to Wear a Cutish Outfit to a Funeral? What do you find is on people's minds these days? You have a really interesting window into what people are thinking about.

Jordan Carlos: Most people have no idea how retirement works. I think that's probably everybody. We have no idea how retirement works. They also want to know when is the right time to break up with their significant other. If you've come to us, it's immediately.

[laughter]

We are the court of last resort. They're like, "Should I do it? I don't know." They're like, "Yes, dude." People write it on a piece of paper. I'm like, "Is this person with you as you're writing it?" It's pretty insane. It just feels like something in a fortune cookie, but yes, we get those all the time, and it's really hard to know.

I think that in your gut, if you're asking the question, it's one of those things where I believe that what I've seen is a cross-section of the demos. We have 40-year-olds come to see us. We have 30-year-olds. We have 20-year-olds. We have whoever, and what I've seen is that a lot of people in Gen Z seem to be very people-pleasing, so they will hold on to things longer than they need to be held.

I'm sorry to look in your soul, as I say that. She's like, "Oh my God, he sees me," but that's what I've noticed and what I've noted. Then the millennials, they're building the car as they drive it, and the Gen Xers are just like, "I'll never be good enough." We just try to help people out in those situations.

Alison Stewart I wanted to bring up a story that you told on the podcast since we were coming around the mountain on Valentine's Day about the secret to your parents marriage.

Jordan Carlos: Oh dear.

Alison Stewart: Your parents have been married a long time.

Jordan Carlos: My parents have been married a long time. I think they're just trying to-- They're just bragging at this point. They've been married for over 50 years now, which it's really beautiful and they had their 50th wedding anniversary party in the middle of COVID, and they don't get tired of each other.

I think the secret to their success is sometimes they're never in the same room. I think there's some older people in the back that can relate to what I'm talking about. It's like, if she's in the kitchen, he's in the living room. If he's in the kitchen, she's up in the attic. She's in the attic, he's in the garage.

They're just like, "We're happy together, apart." I think there's that, and then just like they really, really love and enjoy each other. They speak about each other in the-- The way my mom speaks about my dad, a song will come on, it'll be something by The Temptations or The Four Tops and she's like, "Oh, I used to dance with your father to this song." They are in love with their own love story, which is really great. Except for when they would do this thing--

I remember seeing The Love-ahs sketch on SNL, and I was like, "Those are my parents." Because my mom would be like, on their birthday, she would toast my dad and be like, "To my husband, to my best friend, my most passionate lover." You're like, "Oh god, who needs more milk? Oh the feelings in my body." All right.

It's a good blueprint. It's a good blueprint, and they would fight sometimes, but it was always towards something better. Then also they would never talk crap about each other in front of us. If one wasn't there, they would never talk crap about the other one.

Alison Stewart: Did they understand what you do for a living, your parents?

Jordan Carlos: No, my father is a retired doctor and my mother is a professor of English. She's just a very regal woman. A lot of brooches. She would love this. She's the kind of person like, I say the word Harlem. This is how you know, let me just-- I say Harlem, my mother goes, "Harlem," like that. She's very theatric.

I love my mother. I don't know, I think she should have been on Broadway, but she teaches literature and African American Lit, and she teaches English Lit and she's just a real special kind of person.

That's what I grew up around, and they're like, "What are these?" My father would call them sketches, like stand-up as a sketch or a skit, and then it was always a diminutive. Now that I make money writing for TV, he's like, "Yes, my son, have you caught his program on the Hulu," but before it was just like, "Are you still doing the little comedy shows for nothing," but you get on TV and all is forgiven. Anyway, this feels like therapy.

Alison Stewart: Now you're a landlord.

Jordan Carlos: Yes, now I have a British title, everybody. I'm the Lord of 400 square feet.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Jordan Carlos. We'll talk to Jordan more about his little skits after the break.

Jordan Carlos: Don't do it too.

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It.

[music]

This is All Of It. I'm, Alison Stewart, live in The Greene Space with a whole lot of nice people, and Jordan Carlos, you're a nice person too. I didn't mean to end you like that, that came out really wrong.

Jordan Carlos: A whole lot of people, notwithstanding Jordan Carlos. Okay, yes.

Alison Stewart: Jordan, part of your gig when you're being a Renaissance man is that you are a writer, a sitcom writer, you actually teach writing.

Jordan Carlos: I do.

Alison Stewart: Somebody posted about your class, "One of the best things I've done for myself," which is really lovely.

Jordan Carlos: Oh my god, I posted that.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: What's something about sitcom writing that you think most people don't understand?

Jordan Carlos: I think that people don't understand how difficult it is and how much it's like a Jenga tower and a puzzle, and you're trying to make a story, a coherent story in under 30 minutes, and then just how much of it is like painting in primary colors. Because everybody sees some very amazing out-of-the-box programming on the streaming platforms, The White Lotus and the this, and that, but it all goes back to Joseph Campbell. It all goes back to just the story circle, and they're very--

That's one thing that's really hard for my students to understand. They're like, "I am going to break the picture plane. Do you understand?" I'm like, "First, you have to understand first act, second act, third act structure, and you have to break the rules after you learn the rules." Well, they're all New Yorkers, anyway. They're like, "What is it that you can teach me?" "Pitch me on why you should be my teacher." You just have to get them over that.

My whole strategy is like, with New Yorkers-- I love New Yorkers that have been here for 20 years. Teaching a class, first you have to break them, and then you just have to essentially say to them, "Come with me if you want to live." Then they're like, "Okay." Because I'm giving them stuff that's actually worked.

Alison Stewart: How do you give constructive criticism? That's something that people have trouble with.

Jordan Carlos: First, you give a compliment. You tell people what they're doing right. You open it up-- Because my class is like a writer's room, and I try to make it Socratic in a way where it's like, "Everybody's done the reading and everybody should chime in, and it shouldn't just be me." I'll ask people, "What did you think of what I just said?" They're like, "It was great." Just giving other people an opportunity to hear that. It's really hard to take criticism.

I usually tell people, as you're getting this criticism, count backwards from 100 in your head because you might lose confidence in your own choices, and your ego takes over. Which it's not going to help you build, and it's not going to help you grow as an artist. Do you guys like my Ted Talk?

Alison Stewart: I do.

Jordan Carlos: You like it?

Alison Stewart: I do like your Ted Talk.

Jordan Carlos: Oh, thank you so much. Yes, but I think I come by these things, honestly, because I've written things, and then I've handed them off and then somebody's like, "In the first act," and I'm like, "Don't you touch a word." I just try to impart that for the next generation of writers.

Alison Stewart: I think we have a question from the audience. Hello.

Speaker 4: Hi, there.

Jordan Carlos: Hello.

Speaker 4: Hi, there.

Jordan Carlos: Hello.

Speaker 4: Any thoughts on the Fawlty Towers reboot?

Jordan Carlos: On the Fawlty Towers reboot? I'm all for it. My mother, among other things, she's a huge comedy nerd. A closeted comedy nerd. She introduced me to Carol Burnett. She introduced me to Keeping Up Appearances, all BBC stuff. We could watch everything but Benny Hill. I remember I was like, "What's wrong with this guy? I love a little Yakety Sax, and my mom, "That was not cool. You guys have--" The young ones are like, "What?" Google it. Google it now. Okay. Alexa, what's Yakety Sax? All right. Unless this is really hooked up to-

Alison Stewart: How many Alexas did you just turn on?

Jordan Carlos: I know. [chuckles]

Alison Stewart: Oh, and I just-

Jordan Carlos: That got very sexual. Okay.

[laughter]

Jordan Carlos: How many did I, city of New York? I think to answer your question, I'm definitely looking forward to it. I love John Cleese. I love Fawlty Towers. Fawlty Towers was one of the reasons why I wanted to do comedy writing, because it's just one set in and out, and it's just pure comedy, and I'm ready for it. John Cleese is 80-something years old, and he was always tripping over and doing physical humor with the Spanish waiter, so we'll see. Hey, he does some hip openers, he takes some Geritol. [laughs] We'll see what happens. I'm excited for it.

Alison Stewart: Do we have any other questions from the audience while I plow on? I can keep going. I'm going to keep going.

Jordan Carlos: All right.

Alison Stewart: Jordan Carlos is our guest. Let's talk Super Bowl. We have our first Super Bowl with two Black quarterbacks conveniently happening during Black History Month.

Jordan Carlos: Yes. There was a conspiracy. All right.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: 57 years to have two Black quarterbacks.

Jordan Carlos: It took 57 years?

Alison Stewart: Yes.

Jordan Carlos: What about a second-string Black quarterback? While I'm glad that this is happening in my lifetime, yes, this is so cool. Patrick Mahomes and young Hurts, Jalen Hurts. What are my thoughts on that?

Alison Stewart: Yes, when you first heard it.

Jordan Carlos: When I first heard it, I was like, "That took that long? I had no idea." "Wake me up when it's two Black punters." I think that'll be a moment. Dr. King's other dream.

[laughter]

Jordan Carlos: No, it's cool. It's great. It shows where the game is going. That we've got more Black head coaches, and it just reflects the culture of the sport itself. I think that's wonderful. I think it's wonderful. I'm not going to say who I got my money on, but I do hope that Mahomie does well.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Do you ever find yourself having the conversation, the conundrum? We have it on the show often. Black History Month, yay, highlight contributions, untold stories versus, wait, this should be happening all year long, and we try to do this all year. I think you guys listen to the show whether it'd be Black History Month or Women's History Month, that Yin Yang, that back and forth.

Jordan Carlos: It's the Halloween paradox. It's like, why do people wait to dress like sexy nuns until Halloween?

[laughter]

You want to do it all the time, so just do it. Integrate it. Isn't that like history, integrate it. Integrate, make it G-R-E-A-T. Do you know what I'm saying? Make it integrate. I believe that's what we should do more often instead of being like, "Okay, for these 28, maybe 29 days, we celebrate Black achievement." It should just be sewn into the fabric of life in America.

Alison Stewart: Are you going to watch the game? Are you watching for Rihanna?

Jordan Carlos: [chuckles] I am watching-- Can I watch for all of them?

Alison Stewart: Sure.

Jordan Carlos: Can't there be a cognitive dissonance going on? I'm here for all of it.

Alison Stewart: Thank you.

Jordan Carlos: Yes.

[laughter]

[applause]

Alison Stewart: Yes. Thank you.

Jordan Carlos: We made this man clap. This man has had his arms crossed-- Look at him, like a Roman emperor. Just a non-verbal F you here. What? I love New York. I love this. Isn't this a free show?

Alison Stewart: Yes. Pay what you wish.

Jordan Carlos: He's just like, "This does not please me."

[laughter]

I love this town. Go ahead. Oh, yes. I want to see, okay. I'm definitely down for wings. I'm a gross person that cleanses all the time. I like to cleanse all week, and then have chicken wings. I'm looking forward to those. Does anybody else like chicken wings out here? Yes. All right. Junkers. Everybody else does not like chicken wings. What in the world? Okay. All right. Cool. All right. Do you guys like America? Don't answer that. All right.

No, I look forward to the wings. I look forward to the bad food. I look forward to half paying attention and then half helping other people that just don't watch sports at all understand because [chuckles] I'm a cis straight man who loves to teach. I literally teach a class. I'm like, "Okay. Let me tell you about the past run option. Here we go." Yes, here goes, Dr. Carlos and all his information.

I admit. I do love when a nerdy bird person is like, "Tell me about this football you love so much." I'll be doing that with my wife. I'm excited.

Alison Stewart: It was just your birthday.

Jordan Carlos: Don't talk about that.

Alison Stewart: It was just your birthday-- Okay.

Jordan Carlos: [chuckles] No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Yes. It was my birthday.

Alison Stewart: Are you a birthday person? Do you count these milestones? Do you take account and you think about what you want to do in the next year?

Jordan Carlos: Mine's on Groundhogs Day, so I get to celebrate for six weeks if I see my shadow. Yes, for the first time, I was like, "Let me do this like I've seen so many of my lady friends do it." I was like, "Let me just have a month of Jordan, and we just--" I had my birthday proper on February 2nd. Are there other Groundhog babies out here? No.

Alison Stewart: [unintelligible 00:25:27]

Jordan Carlos: There's only one place where we're treated like humans, and that is Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania.

[laughter]

Jordan Carlos: Basically, I had that, a very-- Well, I celebrate in the day. We went to a spa that will remain nameless, and then we went to Bubby's which is great before that. We did that, and then we went to-- We danced at the Dumbo House on Saturday night. If you've never done that, oh my gosh, it's very exclusive. There I was. I try to keep my knees young and my hips lubricated. We were dancing, and then we got free drinks me and my wife.

Alison Stewart: Nice.

Jordan Carlos: Because these young ones, they don't dance.

Alison Stewart: You went out danced and got some drinks?

Jordan Carlos: Then the young people were just like-- Okay. My wife goes to the bathroom and this lady goes, "You're so courageous for dancing like that."

[laughter]

Jordan Carlos: It takes [crosstalk] courage to dance? I don't understand, but that's when you're over 40, it takes courage. I looked forward to this birthday, this lap around the sun, and I'm excited about it.

Alison Stewart: Where can people see you next?

Jordan Carlos: They can see me-- Okay, oh my gosh. They can see me on the 16th, as you have said, at The Bell House which I'm really excited about to do Adulting, so I invite you all to come. I am sorry about the Rome Cassius. It will cost you some money, but we can talk about that later. Maybe we'll put you on the list.

Alison Stewart: I actually bought tickets to that last month before [unintelligible 00:26:58].

Jordan Carlos: Why did you do that?

Alison Stewart: To support you, support you and Michelle.

Jordan Carlos: Thank you for supporting me, but you can be on the list anytime. Anybody in this room could make the list.

[laughter]

Jordan Carlos: Were you going to-- I don't know. I do feel like dispensing a little Adulting advice for Valentine's though, because it coming up.

Alison Stewart: All right. What do you think for people?

Jordan Carlos: Folks, here's the thing-- How many of us are in couples? Okay, wonderful. Clap it up for that. Okay. Often you want to make reservations at restaurants, right? No?

Alison Stewart: He was like, "No."

Jordan Carlos: Okay. Well, apparently this person's getting a divorce. "No restaurants, no romance." If you can help it, go to breakfast or lunch with your loved one.

Alison Stewart: I like that one.

Jordan Carlos: Thank you. This is like Black church. He's like, "That's it. No." Just [unintelligible 00:27:54], "Yes, tell them."

[laughter]

Thank you very much, sir. Who said that? Is it him back there? Okay. All right. You have a beautiful beard, it looks like there's bees in it.

[laughter]

I always say, go take them to a very nice and romantic breakfast. Okay?

Alison Stewart: Very nice.

Jordan Carlos: Have the mimosa of it all. Do the strawberries, get the pancakes. That, chefs kiss. You can't go wrong. That's my advice. Also, make coffee for your mate in bed, if they're coffee drinkers, of course. I'm speaking to married cisgender men here, straight. I'm like, do all the housework and take out the trash, do some invisible work, and you'll stay married.

Alison Stewart: I think you saved some relationships today, Jordan.

Jordan Carlos: Yes. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Everybody, Jordan Carlos.

Jordan Carlos: Yes.

[applause]

Alison Stewart: Up next, we speak with the culinary trio, Ghetto Gastro about using food to tell stories, and inspire pride. They'll share some recipes. Stay with us.

[applause]

 

Copyright © 2023 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.