
Allen Dulles : Foreign Policy

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This episode is from the WNYC archives. It may contain language which is no longer politically or socially appropriate.
Meeting sponsored by the Foreign Policy Association at the Waldorf-Astoria.
Allen Dulles' lengthy resume is presented by an unnamed speaker.
Dulles references books he has written, he only references his most recent book, The Craft of Intelligence, but speaks mostly of "A History of the Boer War." He speaks of his pro-Boer stance at the time. He speaks of the "atomic bomb of the day" used during the war.
He speaks of the role of intelligence in war and in dealing with foreign dictators. He notes past failures to utilize intelligence - noting the failure to stop Hitler and Lenin. Also, he notes our failure to prevent the attacks on Pearl Harbor.
He notes the "awakening" of 1947, followed by the shock of the Korean War in 1950. Discusses the Truman Doctrine, which on March 12, 1947 stated that the U.S. would support Greece and Turkey with economic and military aid to prevent their falling into the Soviet sphere. Despite this, Czechoslovakia fell to communism, "without a shot being fired."
Dulles speaks of Khrushchev's means of taking over nations, and the use of Marxist/Leninist theories. Dulles calls it a war of subversion - not a hot war.
He speaks of infiltrations of Soviet meetings which revealed their instructions to communist elements in Latin America.
Dulles speaks of the influence of communism within trade unions around the world, as well as in "front organizations" such as "Ban the Bomb" and peace movements.
He speaks of information gathered from defectors from the KGB. He specifically notes the "Disinformation Office."
The United States is playing to great a role in the intelligence fight - allies need to play a greater role.
Communism is facing a great danger, revolts are brewing.
The United States must meet this threat to our way of life.
Audio courtesy of the NYC Municipal Archives WNYC Collection
WNYC archives id: 71987
Municipal archives id: RT188
This is a machine-generated transcript. Text is unformatted and may contain errors.
Is a laser distinguished lawyer. As. An author and a government seven. I was an author he's had a long career his last book the craft of intelligence has been a bestseller and continues to be he's been writing for quite a while and I hope that he will tell you Mrs remarkable because he's a man of. Very clear brain but one of the most confused and curious star is about having written a book and had it distributed before he reached the age of ten so he's been at this business of writing for a long time as a lawyer for nearly forty years he's been an important lay associated with a great. Of Sullivan and Cromwell He's now of counsel to that family for over forty years he has worked off and on for the United States government and his assignments have been various I give you some examples in one nine hundred sixteen he was secretary of the Legation in Vienna. Two years later he took part. And assisted in the their side peace conference in nineteen. Twenty two he became chief of the division of Near Eastern Affairs in the Department of State his interest in intelligence I developed L.A. and World War two He reported from Switzerland on conditions in Germany and Austria. In World War two he joined General Donovan in the office of X. Strategic Services and was again stationed in Switzerland he did a remarkable job. And among other things was in touch with the plotters against Hitler I knew of the assassination attempt in nineteen. Forty four a week before that attempt took place as achievements in the field of intelligence ah extremely impressive and for example again. In one thousand fifty six he obtained crew shoppes secret speech on Stalin downgrading Stalin he obtained it and had it published in this country and all over the world. After the war after World War two. Was to Dulles was asked by President Truman to be chairman of a commission to report on the newly formed CIA He did this job so well that he was later about two years later appointed director of the CIA by General Eisenhower. He has made many contributions to American life and to American government and chief among them I would say is that he has acted I say spearhead of an evolutionary process in our government. You think back some way you can to World War One our government was a cost involved in the preparation of the military effort. But in the Airlie days of the war the purchases of goods for the Allies was done through a private banking institution by the time this second world war developed our government was involved not only in military preparation but in economic preparation but even in well War two. We. Did not how that any affective overall intelligence agency at least until the O.S.'s was started and like any new organization it needed some time to get going officially that meant that our intelligence was obtained piecemeal by the areas agencies and departments and not properly correlated I've curious that in this country the developments development of central intelligence has taken so much time because. In Europe for the last two hundred years at least intelligence has been highly developed by hops this was a tradition of law Republic that the primary function of a government was not in a fashion collection of intelligence Allen Dulles is the architect of the CIA and it's only where then quite recent years that we haue done. Achieved an agency for the collection of information from abroad which in the day as well as is necessary to the security and defense of the country as anything the government does all of you are obviously aware of Allen Dulles as a distinguished set aside but I think that only those of you who know him personally are aware of his friend unless his delightful sense of Huma his many sidedness and his unceasing interest in people and what goes on around him he is indeed a citizen that the Renaissance would have been proud of and Thames of many sidedness So I introduced you with great pleasure A Man For All Seasons. Are. Unknown. Hayes can feel distinguished guests friends members of the Foreign Policy Association great honor and pleasure to be with you here today. I have worked with the Foreign Policy Association for many years and in the years in Washington to follow this work closely I am convinced that. We are only going to have an effective American foreign policy if we have an educated group of people in this country who understand the issues the perils trends the dangers so only through education that we can get this. Great organizations like the Foreign Policy Association that can. Help this country to it I am a. Flattered by the introduction some of my publications have been referred to I think this is not a place to sell one's book so I don't sell a book I wrote in one thousand nine hundred two because that's out of print and is one copy in the rare additions books of the Library of Congress since it was copyrighted otherwise it probably wouldn't be there. It's interesting though to look back two hundred to get a clue as to why one got interested in a lot of things why one did things that I think this book is a little clue to some of my own history. With living in Washington then going to school there and listing two debates. In the evening between my grandfather John W. Foster who had been secretary of state a year few years before and my uncle Robert Lansing and Mr Foster son in law who was to be secretary of state under Wilson the war was on great debate around the table there between my grandfather of English stock who were supporting the British and my uncle Robert Lansing who was of Dutch stock supporting the Boers I adopted the Boer side. And. I helped the book a soul very largely on some stories that I told which I didn't understand very well myself but they came out all right the one particular one that I remember. Mind you I I was quite probe or. And I was describing the trouble the British were having with their artillery but they hadn't developed a new shell finally call it that was the atomic bomb of the day and they were practicing it and using it in the Veldt and they wore their borders and they took the cord into my book at least as I read the thing recently they took some of these shells and took some billy goats necessary remark billy goats off into the veldt tie them to a post. Then a shot at them from a half mile distance for half an hour with the shell see what effect they had. They went up to spec the situation after this barrage they found there were thirteen billy goats one had been born. So I began early to try to learn about things and learn always very accurately and then I went the diplomatic service and this story I think has been stolen from me by the New York Times but it really is the one of the reasons why I became. Inquisitive about knowing people meeting people which I feel is really great key and delegates. In one nine hundred sixty and I was in Switzerland. On special detail my post was Vienna but I was in splits and one nine hundred seventy just before we went into the war the war was on and. I had been on since nine hundred fourteen we were about to enter it but had not entered it and. While I was in sweats and one of my colleagues there was wiser than I remarked to me one day that he was going over to Zurich from Baron where we were and he was going to see a man over there where the beard of the new theory. Would And I go along with him I said No I have a game of tennis I have to new and I've prayed I couldn't you see the man and I will hear from you. The man was none other than Lineen and I lost my last chance to see Lenny in my lifetime. Because two weeks later he was picked up by the Germans afforded a free transfer through Germany and what looked like the great psychological coup of that time and was sent back to what was then Petrograd where a few months later he led the revolution that changed the world and changed our lives yours and mine. One ought not to miss opportunities of that kind more than once and I had my once and I learned a lesson as. CANFIELD a said in the world situation today in view of the leadership responsibilities this country has we must have the best intelligence service in the world we have problems all over the world our policymakers don't have time to sit down all and go over all the intelligence all the information about all the problems in the world they have to be helped there must be an organization the CIA is that organization working together with the State Department of Defense to pop in the pulls together the information comes in from one hundred or more countries in the world on various situations and tries to lay before our policymakers the facts of course. Nothing is more lucid than a fact and I'm months and don't say that this CIA always caught the fact that. It has working in collaboration as I say with these other agencies he has done the best that it could to lay these facts before our policymakers it does not make policy although it's accused of doing it that is the CIA does not. Except we would hope. And believe that our policymakers as they do take account of these reports. In the decisions that they made and I know that in the ten or more years when I was in Washington. I never found that there never was a time when I was not able to get to the president within a matter of minutes with any bit of information that I thought was essential and that was true also in the earlier days I served under President Truman and then under President Kennedy I'm not sure how much we learn from history but certainly we should have learned from the three decades nineteen forty eight in one nine hundred forty five. The first results of a tragic miscalculation by the leaders of the Western world I don't believe there ever was a period of history when there were more miscalculations or fatal miscalculations than during this period I don't say that intelligence will always cure this but good because a great many of these decisions were made in the face of the intelligence that the leaders had I'm speaking now particularly of the of the dictators the Kaiser the head players the Japanese warlords but there are also failures on the other side during this period in the days in Britain in the den that in the days of the days of the thirty's when Hitler was going from one crime to another always each one the last to the last demand the last move and yet have anybody read mine camp they know we had other plans if anyone had read. Their works of Linnaean and studied the takeover in Russia in one thousand eight hundred seventeen you know to realize that there wasn't any limit to the ambition of either of these men's or the manner of the theories that they espouse and then we had our own unfortunate miscalculation Pearl Harbor and that period Mr Canfield has referred to at Pearl Harbor we had the information we were then decipher in the Japanese code we knew a great deal of what was going on. But there was no adequate system whereby the information as it came in was handled in a centralized way analyzed by the greatest experts available in the State Department vets Department CIA and then as I say laid before the. Day before the policy makers of Pearl Harbor and I've been in there was nothing sinister about Pearl Harbor. There was a lot of inefficiency about the handling of the intelligence and one of the basic reasons later for the organization of the CIA was at least to fix responsibility somewhere to do what was not done at. At Pearl Harbor the time of Pearl Harbor. And then we also had some sad experiences in the post-war miscalculation of Soviet policy which came at the end of the war we believed and hoped for some people did people in important places that the Soviet would cooperate towards making peace and that their zones of occupation would be of temporary nature we found about nine hundred forty seven which is the period of the Awakening and we found that that was not the case the Soviet used every arc every force of occupation that had to come in eyes the areas occupied or to prepare for their later combination in case they were evacuated as in the case of Czechoslovakia and that all the premises under which. Under under which the Yalta and Potsdam agreements had been drawn up were false the awakening in one nine hundred forty seven that in the subsequent years carrying on to the rude shock of the Korean War in one nine hundred fifty that awakening led to certain steps first of all the Truman Doctrine I want to mention this because. My main thesis. Evolves from it the President Truman in one nine hundred forty seven by a very bold act in a very courageous act. Decided to go to the aid of Greece. Which then was being threatened to take over. By a subversive Communist means. Guerrilla warfare based on the northern boundary of Greece Yugoslavia area both of which but then working in close accord with Moscow this was the beginning of action and then of course that came NATO the Marshall Plan and all of that while it slowed down the Soviet advance slowed down the Soviet. Pattern of subversion it didn't stop them because we had in one nine hundred forty eight. The takeover of Czechoslovakia without a shot being fired a great country was lost to communism they said been done because when the Soviet armies left Czechoslovakia they left behind their their security forces they had a whole network of subversion there they had about thirty eight percent of the parliament in Czechoslovakia and as is the case so often a minority took over because communism as far as I know has never come in by the popular vote of anybody and has never been able to get by popular vote a majority in any popular assembly but they can operate with a minority and did that in the case of of Czechoslovakia then of course we had. Korea following these experiences in the decade of the fifty's we came to understand the military dangers with which we were faced from the Soviet Union. And we've put hundreds of billions of dollars into building this country into the greatest military arsenal. That any country has ever achieved probably at any time and rightfully so I think that policy was absolutely correct I think there's no question whatever that Khrushchev realizes that if he attempted a hot more nuclear war or any limited war that led to a nuclear war he would be destroyed I think therefore he has decided to take the course of subversive or wars or penetration wars of secret silent covert takeover as he's chosen weapon and that is why we are going down very large with a purely military course of defense we have. And circling us and threatening us another form of warfare to which we must devote far more time and attention than we. And we do and that's my main subject this afternoon Khrushchev as repeatedly warned us and we ought to listen to him because sometimes he tells the truth that his chosen weapon for burying us is through what he calls wars of liberation or wars of liberation wars of liberation. In the the revolt of the what they call the masses against. Those that are in power. Those that support free democratic governments it means that he is committed to the support of communist fronts in all the countries. Targeted for subversive takeover and the is committed to this rather than to nuclear war he said all these for the speech in January nine hundred sixty one which is nothing new. Merely codifies in a way the Marxist Leninist theories that Lenin developed himself but it still is right there and I recommend that everybody. Read it let us not do as we did with mine camp for have the book on our shelves and never take it seriously and crew so basically feels today that he can carry out this war of subversion and penetration with very little danger of a hot war. And that's one of the lessons of Cuba because Khrushchev instinctively feels that if we. As we have a subverted communist Cuba at our doorstep we are like the tolerate any other covert type of takeover at more at a more distant point that is he has tried it out right at our doorstep and he feels that has given him possibly the key to trying it out on a worldwide basis and in this and for all this work. He has developed and the communist effort has developed a. Well heeled arsenal of subversive warfare here is a field in which communism is well pretty well prepared to act and in a field in which we are not so well prepared the military field we have the leadership we have disappear E.R.D. and meeting the subversive threat. He has more assets and we've and I want all these assets first of all the great network of Communist Party us most of them taking their guidance from Moscow some of them from paper and I recognize there is the this is the split between Moscow and peeping but that would not prevent. Either Moscow or peeping trying to subvert a country. Even for its own benefit and against us and while that would not. Necessarily. That is the situation and we can't take too much comfort that we are going to be spared the communist attacks against us merely because on certain ideological and other. Issues. There is this hostility. Between Moscow and being so we have these Communist Party yes we have it here in the United States not serious here yet B.-I keeps that in pretty good order. But in many countries the Communist Party is very threatening and you can easily see a change in situation where it could take over I'm not going to mention the countries where I think that might take place but I would say that. There are almost a dozen countries where it is today a present danger the local Communist Party send their envoys to Moscow to regular intervals there indoctrinates and come back some years ago due to a penetration of that but a particular meeting in Moscow we were able to listen to. The instructions that were given to the communist parties of Latin America this is before the takeover of Cuba telling them how they should operate what should be the policy they should follow and they followed it and it's very much the policy that Castro followed in taking over Cuba as being followed today by many of the parties and the essence of what my Scouse said to these parties is don't ever size communism don't talk about Leninism and Marxism emphasize nationalism and Americanism independence get rid of the Yankees and the gringos and follow that process later you're going to adopt the communist system then addition to the communist parties directed from Moscow on pay being you have the trade unions many of the countries of the world and a great country's largest trade union is a communist dominated trade union that's true in France it's true in Italy true in Indonesia it's true and I have a dozen other countries and even where the World Federation of Trade Unions the Moscow dominated central control organization. Is not is not dominant Still it is very powerful then a third element of the communist apparatus are all these front organizations they establish in various countries youth Congresses peace organizations Ban the Bomb front organizations that they establish depending upon the condition of a particular country and what can be. Most useful in misleading the. People in that particular country that varies according to climate and area education and so forth and so on and then you have an each country you have a strong organization of the State Security Service the K.G.B.. Personal secret weapon because it's run by the prime minister and the party chief and by the president is Moscow secret security service it can be used as the channel to finance the Soviet apparatus the communist apparatus. In a particular country that also directs a good deal of the propaganda. They have now in the K.G.B. because we know a great deal in this government in our government we know a great deal about the K.G.B. now they have been defectors from the Holy of Holies of the organization so we know how it operates we know it's somewhat of one it plans are and they have a section called the distance from ation section that's the best translation you make of the Russian word. That is the as a section that. Spends his time in issuing forgeries false information. Tendentious articles planting rumors that will disrupt the try to disrupt the free world and so forth and so on we don't how it operates we've seen it not action I remember when I was director of central intelligence they. That this information section of the K.G.B. decided to spread the rumor that the CIA was supporting the OAS That is the Algerian and to go organization. And they were able to plant that that rumor and for several papers in Europe that it was picked up in Moscow from Europe played back and forth and finally reached the press the this country and was bullied very large and I had good good friends in Washington writers who talk to me very seriously about this thing and it got widely spread in the in the American press born in Moscow bred in Moscow disseminated by the Soviet secret service or disrupt the free world then they had their training center. In the U.S.S.R. China and in Havana one of the most interesting reports side of seeing for many years is their report of the other OAS The A more the Organization of American States a few days ago in which it gave chapter and verse of the. Of the Qadri that had been trained in Nevada for operations against the government of Venezuela this is not an American reports report of the American states it's America's only one member. State dramatic report got a little published in this country. But. It was a good example and this is going on on a major basis so that you have trained in Moscow a cut rate of work in any one of the countries. Or many of the countries at the same time where they want to exert their there in force now what I want to leave with you today is the. Picture of a danger the free world because of our very institutions because of our very freedoms. Because of our freedom of the press because of our unwillingness and and reluctance and repugnance against haven't a anything to do with the internal affairs of other countries we are not really geared into. Or equipped as yet to meet this subversive move and we're not doing nearly enough about it if one tenth of the brains and thought not speak of the money had gone into this problem that has gone into building guided missiles and nuclear power and so forth I think we'd probably be pretty safe it's been dismissed and one of the difficulties I found and now as I look back at it as a retired from my role in the CIA They depended too much on CIA They gave it to larger mandate in this field. For it's only boots that. We couldn't do affect at least some of the things we were asked to do. And if we're going to meet this it can't be done solely. By saying well this is the job of the secret organization this is the job of the CIA It has to be done on a far better organized basis and by giving more serious attention to it now here are some of the steps I think should be taken but I think there are a lot more I don't feel today I've got any if a final answer or even temporary answer to this problem first of all I think we've got to bring out into the open far more than we have the nature of the subversive threat we face it most communist countries instruction and Marxist Leninism comes with the baby's milk in the free world of instruction in the defenses against communism of giving that all are given very late in our schools and colleges and universities and by our press second I think we kept we should not under rate. This is a danger I think we should take the various elements and more that I have indicated here analyze them teach our people about them so that we don't ignore and don't under rate the danger that this presents. To us further I think we ought to try to get together with other free countries in the world America should not bear the whole burden we've done it very largely in this field to largely in many ways. We are the least threatened from this type of action this type of subversion of any country in the world and we ought to get more help from our allies in the various alliances not only in taking more steps to meet this danger on their own territory but to help us meet it elsewhere communism I feel is thrown down the gauntlet to us to prove that our system is better than theirs I think we must accept the challenge we've accepted the military field we have not accepted in the field that I've been discussing we must show that an open society in a free society can better meet these problems that a communist dictatorship matter of fact when the two come into two systems come into close contact. As in Berlin. The contrast is very great spirit of our system shows itself we are also meeting to seeing today. A good deal of confusion in the communist break us first they have fallen out among themselves as evidenced by the situation of Yugoslavia China Albania and elsewhere they're competing among themselves for leadership in the various parties in the free world and that is a great asset as far as we are concerned both the and the U.S.S.R. and China are in deep trouble and their agricultural program Marxism has failed on the far. Possibly the most of the most dangerous movement they are now facing is the intellectual revolt of the younger people the students. The artists the writers in the Soviet Union reached a point where Khrushchev A said there's to be no wrong no longer ideological coexistence in the intellectual field but finally I think. What we must do is to. Realize that our military defense alone is not adequate that the type of war the type of contest authority in is likely in the fight for the next few decades to be not a military one but a question of dealing with the minds of people has to be a subversive attack on our position not so much in the United States but throughout the uncommitted world and then we must prepare ourselves. Better to meet this immediate threat. To our way of life thank you very much thank you until the. Announcement thank you very much Mr Dallas from a long life of service to our nation we're all pleased that you're going on serving it thank you the meeting is adjourned.