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Our guest is the permanent representative is excellent say a bus to. Saudi Arabia a panelist will introduce themselves this is Spirit given this is United Nations correspondent for the Cyprus Broadcasting Corporation. I'm Mary Hornaday staff correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor. I met had one a political writer. Who will start our questioning with the spirit on great Mr Ambassador as I understand you are the person who has the longest association with the United Nations even with the League of Nations and the leading spokesman for the. Countries I wanted to ask you how you are at present a different Saudi Arabia a billion distend you're not Saudi Arabia yourself and also what would you think is the major change that has come over the years at the United Nations. Thank you first let me clear the question of not being a Saudi Arabian in a way I am a Saudi Arabian because I am a pan arab I've been a pan arab since I was fourteen years old and. It's a dream pan out of business to unify. The Arab states one of these days. Like dreams certain dreams takes time but we are now the Arab states trying to work for unity. This is the reason and I must say. To present Saudi Arabia in as much as I have it presented other countries so in your opinion it wouldn't matter if one out of the president's one country or another well it depends on the country that he presents it whether they have a choice for a certain representative and I happen to represent Saudi Arabia by appointment. I have done so for the last twenty one years or so. Twenty one years is the life span of the United Nations so far where I would say so I witnessed I wasn't representative then but I was a member of the Saudi Legation to the United Nations in San Francisco. I missed one year in London and I was doing something else and then I've been associated with the United Nations since one nine hundred forty seven so it's a long span I guess the younger people a lot of distinguishing themselves more now than we all does it because they are more realistic we had visions of the United Nations and dreams hopes that our vision of the United Nations would not need be she didn't think your next question for Mary Holliday system Bassett or the crisis in the Middle East seems to have been temporarily Clipse by some other difficulties in the world but many people still feel that it's the most dangerous place for a possible third or Third World War I wonder how you size up the situation today and whether you think. Move toward peace or toward another confrontation. Well nobody knows what the future has in store but I must say that the Middle East would remain a troubled area for many many years to come. It is not because the Zionists who took the Holy Land for the good of it most of it I would say happen to be Jews but because the Arabs consider them as an extraneous element in their midst just as they did when they could say that has invaded that part of the GO world not because they were Christians but they were because they came from another continent now it is not a question of religion this is this should be made clear to your audience to take for example the Ottomans who were Muslims. They they took to the Arab countries and stayed there for four hundred over four hundred years and they were fought by the Moslems So the question does not revolve around a clash of religions it's a clash in the customs and traditions and the way of life. Is To sum it up in the way of life. The the Zionists come from Eastern Europe and they are not of one nationality. And they had to displace the indigenous population that is stimulus but the best side the Arabs the other Arab states I'm talking of the Palestinians now they had to pets negative they had an entity and they constituted ninety four percent of the population. Before the. Immigration off scientists into the what the land and there were six percent of that with of the Jewish faith and many of them they were brothers of the Palestinians religion had nothing to do with it they were the indigenous people of the land another thing that should be. Brought to focus on the square is that many of the indigenous people some of them may have been Jews or what may have been Christians and became Muslims what I want to say is that the indigenous population of put it by this time. Had a personality and had to die to offset determination and after the First World War What do we find we find the allies like Britain and Russia in those days saddest Russia and France. Gerrymandering that area into mandates that as they had given promises that they would be liberated from the Turks and the Arabs fault on the side of the allies for the liberation. The next question from Edwin. Mr Ambassador or we're just finishing up what the United Nations has characterized as the decade of development and there appears to have been some disappointing reports progress or lack of progress how do you feel about this decade of development and whatever progress may or may not mean a I think it to em. It is more of an academic nature at this stage as long as the big powers. Who exercise would. Spend on ottoman. Such huge amounts that no doubt would accelerate. The development. Of those amounts to it so. As you know a social progress. Depends on economic development and economic development is very closely knit with the political trends and the policies of nations as long as there is no goodwill amongst the big nations and they hold the balance of power in their hands I think the development would be slowed down. And would be more or less of an academic nature at on this and that is a change of heart. On the part of those who shaped the policies of the big powers do you believe that the increasing outbreaks of violence that have been occurring throughout the world in the last very recent years against the established order as of whatever character they may have been. Have come about in considerable part or any part at all because of this slowness of development in the fact that the great powers are channelling so many of their friends in the armaments and even war well to a large extent I think the new generation. Reflects the discontent from the slowness and the economic development but it goes deep at I think and then that. And here I have to speak about religions for to watch the three monotheistic religions. Judaism. Christianity and Islam. Sprang from a tribal society. At a time when at the age. Of sixteen A man got married to a girl of fourteen. After the industrial revolution people had to. Professions acquire skills that took a long time is spent of time and learning became more popular after the French Revolution people became conscious of that political rights after the Soviet evolution they became more aware of the economic rights because political rights without economic rights. And ineffective. The young generation have found that the generations of the nineteenth century and early twentieth century have been perhaps unwittingly fooling them. They want the men to be continent when a man who is a professional doctor feels he's a doctor or a lawyer. Or an engineer he wouldn't be able to practice nowadays or eke out a living at this put it that way before he's twenty six or twenty seven. So the three religions had the emphasis on certain phases of what ality on sex bought it. And there was a lot of people to see because those three religions did not keep their breasts with the social changes remember I said they sprang from. The tribal system for this is. This has nothing to do with the. Eternal values that are found in those three religions but. Man when he walked to his own fundamental rights that he should exercise them and enjoy them and we find that the men the political men the men the rulers all saw where using such slogans as. We fight a war in order to preserve the peace. It's things that. Could have better hips been glossed over by previous generations this new generation is and they know that in my generation to a large extent they were hypocritical and I use the word that helps unwittingly so without knowing it and they have a mind of their own and the rebellion is a social religious and economic of today and I believe the discontent is due or so to the pressure of populations over the world population the population is increasing and the mass media of information telling everybody what's going on in the world people out of aware of their environment not only of their immediate environment but of the whole world and what is going on and naturally there are activists. Who fish some of them fish in troubled waters and there are activists who are really genuine who think there should be a change and this picture. Of a jigsaw puzzle if I may call it jigsaw puzzle picture it's very difficult when it's broken how to put the pieces back again and have a more or less sedate society which no longer obtains I just think that the next question from spirit of brilliance us Mr Ambassador I am intrigued. By another business. It seems to me that one of the police abuse that has been declared time and again by all other states was that of self-determination. Yet recently when the events of here have more or less provoked. The reaction of how they were the only voices that were. In favor of the Russian action was coming or or was the only worse was coming from other countries how would you explain this I do not believe that you have the right picture my dear friend first of all. If you had listened to the statements of the Algerian that I presented to on the Security Council. You would note that he appelle the principle of said. We have. Many newspapers in the Arab world. Or upholding the principle of said to mission in fact it fell to me and if you colleagues in one nine hundred forty eight to eleven eight or rather in and see it the principle of said seventy terminations into a right and I don't want to say we take pride in that that was our duty that was before. Many of the African states emerged and state to a nation. So the the Russian invasion. Is a question of balance of power both great powers embellish if you had noticed in the council. Have embellished their. Speeches with such terms as the idea is of socialism that's the Russian side and the others I mean the western side of freedom and liberty and center determination but they did not apply that yardstick to some powers of self-determination again I go to the Palestine question Would you should research I was referring particularly to the statements of Syria. The United public. Seemed to be discordant note in the spirit of another unity at least I don't know I don't know sir what the Syrian said and they can speak for themselves nor the United Arab Republic so that would I know that people at large they decry what the West and the east do in order to infringe upon the the right of self-determination of people so would you say then that the Arabs divided on that issue I wouldn't say divided by design everyone would express his opinion as he sees fit this is a highly political question but the principle is cannot be compromised the principle of said terminations or I would say the right of self-determination should be upheld at all times but unfortunately this question is a question of balance of power in Europe and the Deep in the adversities if I may use that have been exploiting each one for his own benefit in other words if the Russians or any other or the Americans for that matter wanted to take chickens to evacuate for good. Of course this would be a very serious matter but many perhaps add statesmen or politicians they were they were exercising. The sort of policy or rather to watch and see to watch and see it other then plunge into the old questions without. Deliberation amongst themselves. And also without meditating or pondering what the outcome of such action that had been taken by the Russians and sure if. They might end up in. Thank you next question from Mary holiday is the bastard or the many Arab diplomats complain that they can't get a fair hearing with the American public I wonder if you've had a long experience and I wonder if you think this situation is improving and whether you think a change in it in the administration in Washington would make a difference in this or what has been your experience my experience is as long as. The government of the United States does not take the question of Palestine out of their domestic politics. There'd be very little improvement. It's so happens also that the media of information in this country to mass media information not all of them a good bottle of them out in favor of the other side in the pedestal I question the nine out up side of the pedestal and question. That with regard to influencing. The. American public opinion. I think. No matter what how you extort public opinion from my personal experience experience and having been associated with the draft convention on freedom of information in the United Nations I do know and excuse me for using the stern people everywhere. Are in the nature of sheep that can be led through. They threw the media off information. Through the Suez affected affecting their subliminal minds by the petition and by advertising propaganda is a sort of political propaganda sort of advertising and you know very well my dear friend that sometimes you have a bottle of soap which you mean the order of which you may not like if you see it on television for a hundred times for a fraction of a second without even any. Words to explain. The nature of that bottle so you and I we we we end up by buying it. The next question from Edwin. Mr Ambassador other than some proposals coupled with some warnings about the future use the oceans in the sea is this what are your views on should there be some sort of an international treaty providing for international control over the exploitation of the sea such as one proposed or actually are stuck in a United States Senate resolution has been put forth by Senator Reyburn well but this kind of approach should there be this I have no doubt but that that there should be an international treaty about. The so-called oceanography. The reason is that in a few years there will be a shortage of proteins leave aside carbohydrates and if we do not see there will be famines in Asia and Latin America and in other parts of the wood and due to the. Lack of added land no matter how much you claim in the world. And that may produce wheat that is a limit. Due to the fact that the population is increasing in Joe metric and progression and decreasing in at a metric it will get I should if I may say so so I don't know how people could be fed. In the wood. If we do not do something to father the resources of the sea and in order to farm that its sources of the sea it's not a question of taking the fish and processing get it and flavoring get and making wheat out of fish meal I mean flour of fish meat it's a question of technology too and there should be an international agreement with regard to pilot projects because the highly developed countries cannot possibly. Do this thing by themselves they may be able to teach others how to do it in their own region and all this needs coordination and pooling of resources technical resources as well as financing these projects but I don't know whether we can catch up with this explosion of population. I'm sorry to say that I am one of those who believe that there may be famines within the next the size of the sizeable famine is within the next ten years or so on this exploitation of the Seas do you have the impression now that the great powers already are staking out almost a military fashion what they intend to control. Where. And in so far as the. Is there a certain urgency to getting an international treaty Well I think so they have to rethink has a military phase take outer space for example. I don't know whether it's on live for the benefit of mankind that's so so many billions are spent for developing outer space it could have its military aspect to outer space likewise or negative feed could lend itself to to military action what are submarines but. Water ships and. Maybe some I'm not I'm thinking aloud maybe some nations might be quite nervous about a treaty on oceanography if it has to touch upon certain secret devices they may put on under the water but I hope that the overriding. Need of humanity will rather make the big nations who have the means of. Developing military if they can is under the sea with submarines and other vacancies I don't know what they might be that the overriding concern would be that of feeding humanity because Should there be famines as you know many demagogues would spring up and create trouble and the modern weaponry lends itself admirably for the suicide of mankind the old days. A question for Mr Gridley can assert that you yourself were involved in the drafting of the treaty on the Freedom of Information also you said that a number of media in this country are more or less unfriendly to the. Yet I notice that moved the Countess of no go to Spondon she is including. Any. When a of giving information or taking information and contributing to this free flow over for mission of the United Nations critic I would explain this. We have some. Officers here to take the office the Office of the I don't really feel for all of the missions that are if you correspondence but I think your guy think. They have written off the Arab people on the whole that anything might come out of trying to inform the the American people of that case or rather of the Palestine issue because whatever they do would be not the drop in the bucket in drop in the lake of what the others do so they have to be self-reliant and have their own media and leave it to correspondents to believe in whatever information they have with what with the few correspondents they have here but. I don't think they would want to spend too much money on it's not as I don't see it not worse worse while many of us think that. Unless unless the people here as I said take the Palestine issue out of domestic politics I don't think much could be done whether they are Republicans or whether it was referring rather to the for the measure that's going but to the other countries information or we have all the information we need from from me from here are media that are controlled. All of the media are controlled by ideas either by by by not necessarily by by the governments but by their advertisers or by factions who are very clear there is freedom of license nowadays more saw that and freedom of information the the emphasis is on propaganda in the world today not on information per se and sometimes remember that there is the factual and that is the notion of. The notion. Encompasses. Opinion as well as propaganda opinion maybe legitimate opinion without being to be shifted by a gun but always going to draw the line of the nation there is very little. And Lloyds of freedom of information no it isn't they remember there is silence and this is a when say. Like the one who is gracing. Radio program or television program today writes an article I have got a great deal of respect for the paper she represents but many papers the editors have silenced. And this is this. To which they subject. The. To consult the columns of some correspondence and sometimes they give the whole picture but how many columns columnists then give another picture it's all contrived and very complicated to the media if information is necessary. But to a large extent it is Lloyd excuse me time has run out we'd like to take this opportunity to thank our guest is excellences a permanent representative from Saudi Arabia and bust of the jungle but only and our panel of newsman spirit under need since the United Nations correspondent for Cyprus radio very holiday form of the Christian Science Monitor and Edwin political writer. On. The Knock knock knock knock knock knock knock knock knock knock knock knock knock. W N Y Z is presented international interview produced in cooperation with the Overseas Press Club of America a moderator for this series is Seymour and Siegel and his guest for this program was his excellent see the permanent representative from Saudi Arabia and Buster jungle but who.