Ask Governor Murphy: October Recap

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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Now, WNYC's Nancy Solomon with excerpts from and analysis of, and to take your phone calls about her ask Governor Murphy call-in last night. Nancy usually joins us on the morning after. Yesterday the governor addressed some really disturbing investigation findings regarding the New Jersey State Police. We'll get into those.

Also, he wants or approves of the idea of something they're doing in Newark, where 16 and 17-year-olds get the right to vote in school board elections. We'll invite your calls this morning about whether you think that's a good or bad idea. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Should 16 and 17-year-olds ever have the right to vote or other things regarding New Jersey politics and policy and Governor Murphy.

Some other things Nancy and the governor and the callers discussed, the fundraising event that Murphy had with second gentleman, Doug Emhoff last weekend. They heard from listeners who were upset about wind energy, still upset about wind energy, this time upset about a particularly long electric cable that would run through some neighborhoods and more. Hey, Nancy, happy morning after.

Nancy Solomon: Thanks, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Let's start with what you thought was the biggest news item yesterday. You told us a couple of weeks ago, New Jersey Attorney General Matt Platkin recommended some pretty big reforms for the state police. The office also took over some of the state police's functions following two investigations that revealed, "Deeply troubling conduct and systemic problems," within the force. For listeners who aren't familiar, can you tell us first what some of the issues of conduct were?

Nancy Solomon: It is deeply troubling. Basically, women and troopers of color have been complaining for years about they've been denied promotions, their hiring numbers are low. I think some of the most troubling accusations or findings of the report really I should say, is that the Internal Affairs Department, that's the office within any police agency that does its own investigations of its own behavior and responds to complaints from, in this case troopers, that the Internal Affairs Department was basically weaponized and used against those making complaints.

There was a specific example given in the report of a trooper who made a complaint and then the head of the Internal Affairs Office spent all of the time working that complaint, trying to figure out who the anonymous complainer was instead of actually addressing what was being complained about. That was one of the specific examples. There was also, and the governor responds to this, I think we're going to have a piece of tape of him doing this, but there was one complaint involving a trooper who was accused of having sex with a 14-year-old girl.

The lieutenant in the Internal Affairs Department, this is the head of the department, sent a text message to colleagues discussing the arrest of the trooper saying, "Can we at least see a pic of her? I'd like to see what all the hubbub is about."

Brian Lehrer: Oh, boy.

Nancy Solomon: Not only do you have someone saying that, but then all the officers on the text chain, not one of them complains and not one of them raises this as an issue. These are the kinds of things that the attorney general talks about in the report. It is particularly disturbing because it comes 20 years after the New Jersey State Police were found to be racial profiling on the highways, pulling over Black and brown drivers.

In some cases, Black and brown drivers were the victims of shootings by officers that were unprovoked. This initiated a huge investigation, lawsuits, and ultimately landed with the federal government monitoring the state police and the state police having to make reforms. It's crushing that there's still such deeply deep, deep, deep problems going on after that whole process has now ended. That's the basic issue.

Brian Lehrer: The federal process has ended, but the news here as I understand from you is that the state attorney general, Matt Platkin, has recommended some new, pretty big reforms for the state police. Can you go over for our listeners what a few of those are?

Nancy Solomon: He's taking over the personnel functions both in hiring, and promotion, and training practices with specific benchmarks to hire and promote women and people of color. They are not representative in the force that they are in the general population, both for women and for people of color. He wants to make policies at the state police more friendly to pregnant women and nursing moms. There's been a lot of problems that female state troopers have had when they return to work after having a child. He wants to reform the handling of the misconduct complaints.

Basically now, any complaint against a senior staff member will automatically go to the Office of Public Integrity and Accountability at the attorney general's office, which is the office that not only looks into problems at the state police and conducted one of these reports, but also is the public corruption unit. He's basically wrangling what control that he can get from the state police. Ultimately, the superintendent reports to the governor, the attorney general doesn't have the power to hire and fire the superintendent and so really that lands at the door of Phil Murphy.

Brian Lehrer: State police superintendent Colonel Patrick Callahan has agreed to implement the attorney general's recommendations, but nevertheless, some are calling for the governor to fire the superintendent. Here's how the governor responded to that last night.

Governor Phil Murphy: Pat Callahan is not going to get replaced on my watch, let me say that unequivocally. That email is beyond disgusting. Now, that person I'm told is no longer in the state police, but it is beyond disgusting. Think about that everybody. Think about that if that were your daughter or not. The word disgusting does not do it justice. Let me be unequivocal about that as well.

Brian Lehrer: Referring to whoever was on the force who asked, "Let's see a picture of the girl or the woman to see what all the hubbub is about." Who's asking the governor to fire the state police superintendent? Why if he is implementing the reforms?

Nancy Solomon: The director of the New Jersey NAACP has called for the governor to fire Pat Callahan. I get to appreciate at least his answer because I struggle on the show so much getting him to fully answer and commit to his answers. He tends to dodge my questions a lot. I appreciated the fact that at least he was totally clear he's not firing Pat Callahan. I don't have the ability to judge whether that's the right call or the wrong call. I think the governor is very close with Pat Callahan. The two of them went through the pandemic together every day, giving their briefing and dealing with all the problems that arose.

He's close with him and he believes in him and trusts him. I've met Pat Callahan. He is a very nice guy who speaks in a very compelling way, in a passionate way about the service of the state police and all that they do and the challenges of that job. There are good things that go on with the state police. They have a very effective gun violence program. They do a ton of really cutting edge research on how to track guns and how to reduce gun violence, and they're doing a very good job as far as I can tell about that.

Murphy is, he likes him, he's committed to him, he's not going to fire him. I think we'll see whether these reforms really happen. I think Matt Platkin, the attorney general has wrestled away what he can wrestle away from Callahan and we'll see where it goes.

Brian Lehrer: Next issue. Let's talk about lowering the voting age for certain elections. Earlier this year, the New York City Council approved allowing 16 and 17-year-olds to vote in school elections. The governor is a big proponent of the idea I understand. What does the proposal actually allow the students to vote on, Nancy?

Nancy Solomon: This is a state bill. Any local school district can make its own decisions, but what Murphy is pushing is this state bill that would require every school district in the state to allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote. The community votes on the school board and this would allow 16 and 17-year-olds to also be part of that vote. He loves this idea. It came from student activists, and now Newark has successfully done it. Their next school board election will be next April and teenagers will be voting in that one. I think the governor just really loves this idea. He feels that it'll engage students more in the political process.

Who knows better about how their schools are being run than students? He just loves the idea. I think it's interesting. It really did come from students around the state that advocated and fought for this bill. It's an interesting proposal, and Murphy loves it so much. He's talking about how we'll start with school districts and then expand voting to 16 and 17-year-olds for everything.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, wow.

Nancy Solomon: Whether that happens, I do not know, but it seems like a good start to start with school boards and see how that goes.

Brian Lehrer: On considering lowering the voting age for all elections before the Vietnam War, as I'm sure you know, Nancy, the voting age was 21. Then it was lowered to 18 nationwide per the argument that if you're old enough to be drafted and sent to war against your will, you're old enough to vote. Now, we could have a larger conversation about whether 16-year-olds also have the majority to vote, not just 18-year-olds.

Maybe that's beyond the scope of ask Governor Murphy. Sounds like he did lean into that a little bit, but there's a longstanding critique of our electoral democracy, that the government spends too much money in policy attention on older people's needs and not enough on children's. Why? Because older people vote in large numbers and children, of course, can't. Maybe that's too simplistic, but it's an argument for lowering the voting age as much as we think brain development would justify it. It's interesting that Phil Murphy is out front on that.

Nancy Solomon: The students say, which is an interesting parallel to what happened in the '60s, the students say if 16-year-olds are old enough to drive to the polls, then they should be able to vote at the polls. I have a 16-year-old who's learning to drive. I'm not sure I would use that analogy, but I think certainly it's an easy thing to pick off school boards as something that students should be highly engaged with and maybe aren't as much as they could be, and that this would be a great way to get more student input into our school boards.

I think it could result in students getting elected to school boards, which I think is a great idea. I really do think there should be more student voice in making the decisions that school districts make.

Brian Lehrer: There should be perhaps a reserved student seat or multiple seats on school boards in the first place, however those members get chosen. Listeners, what do you think about this? Anything else you want to say to or ask of Nancy Solomon who does the ask Governor Murphy call-in once a month, did it last night? We'll continue to play clips. 212-433-WNYC. What do you think about 16-year-olds getting the right to vote in school board elections, in particular, or generally in our electoral democracy? 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692, call or text.

Another thought for me about the school board right to vote in particular, school board elections elsewhere have had broader eligibility than other elections. I don't know if there are models already around the country, maybe the governor said or you know having to do with age. In New York City, before the system was centralized under Mayor Bloomberg, New Yorkers used to elect 32 local school boards in the 32 school districts around the city.

In those elections, any parent of a child in the system had voting rights, regardless of their citizenship status or other usual voting qualifications. Why? Because they were direct stakeholders in their kids schools. Seems like common sense, though it was sometimes controversial. The usual voting age of 18 means basically no students, also stakeholders of course, ever get to vote. Do you know if any districts anywhere already have this?

Nancy Solomon: I think there might be a few districts, but I don't think any state has it because the governor did reference that last night. He said that this would be historic. New Jersey would be the first, which of course, he loves that. To be clear, this bill would require it. It's not up to the school districts to decide, it would require it and no state has that.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a phone call on this. David in Los Angeles, you're on WNYC. Hi, David.

David: Hi, Brian and hi, Nancy. I'm so happy that Governor Murphy brought this up. I'm so happy we're talking about it on the show. I was actually really surprised and pleased that you broadened the issue to talk about how it also could be an avenue into broader enfranchisement. I think it's a total slam dunk. The point about cars is obvious. The question isn't really whether it's scary that an individual 16-year-old may or may not be capable of driving well, the question is whether socially as a society we think, "Oh, this is something that they're capable of and that the need necessitates."

It's like, why do 16-year-olds drive? Probably so they can go to work. People are able to take jobs at that age. I think it's perfectly reasonable if you're able to have a boss who has a lot of control over you, you'd be able to vote as well, particularly in the school board. That just seems obvious, but I really believe strongly that it should be a broader issue. Thematically, certainly the past two years and even longer, there's a question about the power of the electorate at the older end being disproportionate. Obviously, we saw with Biden's age that became an issue with these old candidates.

I think rather than just thinking about that side, we could think about the other end. There's also the theme of elections where voter suppression is a big issue. I think we can talk about fighting voter suppression, putting out 1 million tiny fires. What about instead of just being reactive you proactively start talking about expanding the electorate? It seems really straightforward.

Brian Lehrer: David, thank you. Maybe there should be a twin movement, lower the voting age and raise the driving age. No, I'm just kidding, but maybe some people would like that.

Nancy Solomon: To be clear, I was joking about the driving. I thought it was funny, but I do think it's a tremendous step forward for our democracy to expand voting and to engage young people more. I agree with the caller.

Brian Lehrer: Here's another supporter, Meredith in Katonah, New York, in Upper West Chester you're on WNYC. Hi, Meredith.

Meredith: Hi. I believe that students should have the right to vote both at the school board level and at the federal level. At the school level, they certainly have a vested interest in what's going on within the school and have direct knowledge of it. Many times the decisions of the board are actually impacting them. I have a student that has special needs, and certainly she's already spoken at school board meetings to advocate for herself. She's not of driving age, and she's well-versed in the issues that she has and has ideas about how they should change.

As a student and being such a young person, they're not always taken seriously. I think that's unfortunate because there are many individuals who take the time to educate themselves [inaudible 00:19:00] also across the government. I think if we allow them the opportunity to engage in that at an earlier age when they are learning about it and learning about the ramifications of it and feeling that, we'll be more likely to see them participate as college students, as adults because they already will have it been introduced to it in their more formative years.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. What do you think about this Meredith, from another listener who writes a text message. Listener writes, "Great idea, but they should have to pass a civics test first demonstrating that they know the roles of their leaders and board members and what they can and cannot do." Maybe adults should have to pass that too and a lot would have trouble with it today, but that's a suggestion from one listener. You have any snap reaction to that, Meredith?

Meredith: I'm not opposed to that. I think many of our students are [inaudible 00:19:56]

Brian Lehrer: Oh, Meredith's line was breaking up before and now I think it's totally dropped. Too bad. Let's throw that same question to Rita in New Canaan in Connecticut, who says she's on her town council and might propose the idea locally. Rita, hi you're on WNYC. Are you just getting the idea for that from this conversation?

Rita: Absolutely. I think it's a fantastic idea. I would say the jury's out for me in terms of the federal election at this point, but I think this would be a good litmus test for how students engage. I think they just feel like nothing that they can do really affects the outcome. I think to the other caller's point, this would give them a way of being a part of the process and seeing what results may come about. I think that first step would really engage them and maybe we could consider the broader election.

Brian Lehrer: Interesting. Rita, let us know if you actually propose this and this becomes an issue in New Canaan inspired, I guess, by Governor Murphy and Nancy Solomon to ask Governor Murphy call-in. There is a text message here in opposition and then we're going to play a clip from last night's ask Governor Murphy of a caller who was skeptical. Nancy, this is interesting. Listener is a teacher and writes, "The student-teacher power dynamic has already been tipped too far against teachers. Do we really want teachers even remotely politically beholden to students?"

I think a lot of our listeners would answer yes, we do want teachers at least somewhat politically beholden to students, that they're among the stakeholders who have a voice in education policy. That's an interesting reaction from a teacher who doesn't think the student should be their boss.

Nancy Solomon: What we're talking about is students voting for the school board and the school board is the boss of the superintendent, and then the superintendent is the boss of the teachers. It would be a really interesting exercise if students were able to actually take control of a school board, like if they were to have a majority of positions on a school board, and then what would happen? The students who are going to be super engaged in this, I don't know.

I understand teachers might be afraid, but I think what you're going to get are the students who are most engaged, most active, who understand civics better than the general population. I don't know that we would see big problems even for teachers if this were to come to pass. I hear complaints from my junior and high school about teachers regularly. That would be a great perspective for school board members to hear from.

Brian Lehrer: One listener of your show last night, I said caller, it was really somebody who wrote a text message, criticized the governor for what they consider passing the buck on to kids instead of real reform on the statewide level that the adult should be doing already. Here's a clip of WHYY producer Kenny Burns reading that question.

Kenny Burns: Jeffrey M. Princeton, who prefaces his question as a former member of the school board there, why focus on having students vote in school board elections rather than deal with more difficult, but substantive issues?

Brian Lehrer: Here's part of the governor's response to that.

Governor Phil Murphy: I don't see there's any discontinuance, if you will, between both promoting the ability for 16 and 17-year-olds to vote on the one hand. By the way, I suspect you'll get even a richer, better perspective from those 16s and 17-year-olds on things like book bans because they're living it. We all, I'll speak for myself, you're viewing it as a parent, they're living it. I think it's both and both, and we'll continue to be vigilant on both fronts.

Brian Lehrer: Tell us, Nancy, about the book ban issue and where that connects to the 16 and 17-year-old vote proposal, maybe in the mind of that listener.

Nancy Solomon: The book ban issue really is a national issue, but it's happening in New Jersey too. This has to do with whether it's a public library, or the school library, or the school curriculum. In the case of the school curriculum, in the school library, it's often coming from parents who are fighting back about what they see as a radical curriculum for their kids. They really are opposed to anything that is positive about gay people, recognizing gender fluidity, and non-conforming gender identities. They oppose stuff about even criticisms of slavery and more Black history and Black identity.

These are the battles that are happening all over the country and New Jersey is not immune from that. This is an issue that comes up in school board elections where you have conservative folks who run for their school boards. Many school boards have been taken over without the community really paying attention until they realize, "Oh, those people who ran for the school board and are now elected to the school board are actually quite conservative and oppose these things." That has happened.

I think this is another way to get more engagement in school board elections. It's certainly not going to be the panacea, but communities need to pay attention to who is running for their school boards and what they believe in, and whether those values match their own.

Brian Lehrer: Nancy Solomon is with us after her ask Governor Murphy call-in last night, which happens once a month and Nancy usually comes on with us the next morning. Next issue as we move on from student voting, 16 and 17-year-olds potentially getting the right to vote, national politics, where New Jersey is trying to make a difference. Governor Murphy at least, he held a fundraiser for Kamala Harris' presidential campaign on Saturday. The second gentleman, Doug Emhoff, was there, Harris' husband. Let's hear a bit on what the governor thinks will happen in November.

Governor Phil Murphy: We just raised a bunch of money with the second gentleman, very successfully I might add. Tammy deserves overwhelmingly the credit to raising money. We're an export state right now. Kamala's not going to lose in New Jersey, Andy Kim's not going to lose. We've got a competitive house race which is the 7th. We should talk about that Tom Kean defending against Sue Altman. Tammy was campaigning with Sue today. I'm going to get out there in the next number of days with her.

We've got some down ballot races that are important, but we're largely an export state so we're exporting money. I saw a bunch of buses off on Saturday morning out of Montclair going into Bucks County, I believe in Pennsylvania. Almost everything we're doing that's specific to another state is Pennsylvania, not entirely, but largely.

Brian Lehrer: That's an interesting concept, Nancy. New Jersey as a, "Export state in national politics."

Nancy Solomon: I think we should preface all this to say we're talking to a democratic governor who's involved in politics both nationally and statewide. He is a partisan and full on supporter of all the Democrats in the race. Well, actually I won't say that. He's going to speak as a Democrat. I just want to put that caveat there.

Brian Lehrer: There's an asterisk there. I guess we could do this asterisk first. He said in the clip, "Kim's not going to lose." Democratic candidate for us Senate Andy Kim, Kim's not going to lose. The governor after Kim ran against the governor's wife, Tammy Murphy in the primary and she dropped out, the governor has not technically endorsed Kim, has he?

Nancy Solomon: No, he hasn't and this comes up regularly with him. I had asked him about it and pushed him on it last month, and I was committed to not doing that again. I felt like I had had my say and taken a whack at him, but then we got a bunch of calls and online stuff asking him about it. I feel like it's aggravating to particularly, I think progressive Democrats in the states that he has not endorsed Andy Kim. The governor says Andy Kim has not asked for his endorsement and if he asked for it, he would get it. Andy Kim has said, "I don't need the governor's endorsement."

I don't know whether Kim doesn't want his endorsement because it hurts his brand, because he became such a hero to people when he stood up to Tammy Murphy or whether he just doesn't want to be beholden to him or whether it's just pride. The bad blood from the primary, hopefully, it's going to come to an end because I think Andy Kim is going to be elected the next US senator and it is important for the governor of the state and the two senators of the state to have a good working relationship. Hopefully, all this blood will fade away.

Brian Lehrer: As an export state, we could have a whole other conversation about money in politics, and whether a lot of money from wealthier states like New Jersey should be flooding into races all over the country, but that happens on both sides of the aisle. In that clip we heard the governor reference the competitive race in the 7th congressional district. Insider NJ reports a new poll showing Democrat Sue Altman in a two point race, so a margin of error race with incumbent republican congressman Tom Kean Junior, a statistical tie. Can you talk to us a little bit about what's going on in that race and why it's so neck and neck?

Nancy Solomon: Sure. It is the most important race for residents of New Jersey on our ballot, given that there's no question that Harris will beat Trump on election day in New Jersey. This is a very competitive race in a purple district that has flipped back and forth. We had Leonard Lance, the Republican, and in 2018, Tom Malinowski beat him in that blue wave election that was really represented an uprising against Trump of suburban women all over the country and certainly in New Jersey. Then Tom Kean Junior was a state senator. He's the son of a very popular former governor.

He ran against Tom Malinowski in 2020 and lost and then beat him in 2022 after redistricting had moved a bunch more republicans into the district. Now, we have Sue Altman, who is a former director of Working Families Alliance in New Jersey, progressive, activist, corruption fighter. She used to live in Camden and took on George Norcross and moved into the district. It basically runs from south of the Newark Airport across a strip of the whole state, west that takes in working class towns south of the airport, affluent suburbs like Westfield and Summit.

Then it heads west and it spreads out north to south and takes up this big swath of rural New Jersey all the way to the Pennsylvania border, all the way. It takes an hour to get there. It's very purple and Sue Altman is running a really tough campaign. She is working it and working it hard. She's out there. She's a grassroots organizer to begin with and she's taken that approach. She's got volunteers knocking on doors and trying to mobilize every possible anti-Republican vote that exists, whether it's Republicans who are uncomfortable with the current regime or whether it's independence.

Of course, there are many, many unaffiliated voters in this district, but the polls show she's still a couple points behind. Its a hard slog when you've got more Republicans. Plus, Tom Kean, just by virtue of his name, he brings Republicans who may be against Trump think of him as representing old moderate Republicanism of New Jersey. Is that necessarily true?

Brian Lehrer: That was his father, Tom Kean Senior.

Nancy Solomon: Tom Kean Junior has voted with Mike Johnson and hasn't really done anything to stand up to the really conservative Republican Party that is in power in Washington right now that doesn't represent New Jersey Republicans very well. He's able to pull on that loyalty or that affinity that moderate Republicans have for him and so it's going to be a tough race for her.

Brian Lehrer: The governor did mention a viral video that Sue Altman is getting heat for that might be shaking up the race in some way. Can you tell us about that?

Nancy Solomon: It's a good one. Tom Kean Junior does not speak to reporters period. I don't know of a single reporter now, something's going to be dug up that he did an interview with somebody, but he doesn't return my calls. He doesn't return the calls of most of the political reporters in the state that I know of who have also written about this. I've written about it, they've written about it. A reporter from NJ Spotlight News, which is both a print and it's also PBS TV News, combined operation, he's the congressional reporter, Ben Hulac, he's a congressional reporter so he's based on the Hill reporting on the New Jersey delegation.

He encounters Tom Kean in the hallway and puts a mic or he maybe has his phone out or something and asks him, "Do you regret that you endorsed Donald Trump?" Tom Kean doesn't answer him. He's got a coffee cup in his hand, a paper one. He and his aide walk into the elevator and the reporter follows him into the elevator. What transpires is about two minutes of the most cringe worthy video you've ever seen, in which this guy asks him 1 million questions and Tom Kean just looks ahead.

He doesn't even turn his head. He doesn't make eye contact. He doesn't say, "I'm sorry, I'm not going to talk to you." Nothing. He's just steely-eyed, looking forward. The questions go from political policy questions to, "What are you going to have for lunch or what do you think of the Yankees?" The reporter is like, "Sir, I will talk to you about anything if you would just talk to me," and nothing.

Brian Lehrer: That's really funny.

Nancy Solomon: It went viral.

Brian Lehrer: Sounds cringe-worthy, as you say. I think I misspoke and may have misled the listeners by accident when I was introducing that question and I said a viral video that Sue Altman is getting heat for. Of course, it's the other candidate, Tom Kean who's getting the heat. Sorry for that [unintelligible 00:37:13] folks. One more thing, last night a caller focused on how BP, the energy company, plans to connect the wind turbines that are being proposed now to the power grid.

A couple of callers upset about wind energy in the state. We've certainly been through this topic before with you and the governor and our callers. Maybe just remind us very briefly of the governor's goals with wind before we play the clip of the caller.

Nancy Solomon: Sure. He wants to have the state producing zero emissions by the year 2035, which, of course, is not very far away at this point. He's doing it by incentivizing electric vehicles and electric home appliances, heating, and then producing more wind and solar, which ultimately will take the place of fossil fuels. He's made huge investments, particularly in the wind industry, basically viewing wind not just as a way for the state and the world to get away from fossil fuels, which are causing climate change, but also he saw that New Jersey had an opportunity to make this an economic driver for the state.

He invested state dollars in a manufacturing plant for turbines and a port where the turbines can be built and then floated out to sea in South Jersey. It's creating jobs and becoming a provider of the equipment needed all up and down the East Coast, is what his hope is. It's all in the infancy stage.

Brian Lehrer: Here's that caller with an objection. It's Glenn from Monmouth on ask Governor Murphy last night.

Glenn: I know the BPs current plan is to take most of that energy and run it through a single route in a single power line in a shallow trench through residential streets in Sea Girt, Manasquan wall and how. Now, that's going to be 6000 megawatts, which for the viewers out there is equivalent to the power that would be generated by 10 nuclear reactors. Imagine someone comes in and installs 10 nuclear reactors right down the street from you and runs all that power in a shallow trench 10 yards from your front door. A lot of people concerned about that and the potential health risk, as well as this particular route is going to run through an EPA designated toxic superfund site.

Brian Lehrer: Some very local potential pollution concerns there from that caller, not necessarily an advocate of fossil fuels like the reason that some people oppose wind energy. Nancy, as we start to run out of time, what was it there, there?

Nancy Solomon: That question is put in such a way that its a little bit manipulative, in all due respect. To compare this to nuclear power, which of course triggers in peoples minds something that is highly toxic and dangerous and saying, but this is a cable. He called it a shallow trench. This is a cable that is underground. The governor's response was, "All the experts say this is safe." The board of public utilities, they're concerned about electromagnetic fields and emanation.

The board of public utilities in New Jersey says that the cables that emanation would be minimal, about half of 1% of the safety limit that's recommended by the federal or the actual international commission that deals with these things. People are concerned about it.

Brian Lehrer: Do you think the person was a plant from the fossil fuels industry, even though he was hanging the problem on the oil company BP for the way it would lay the cable?

Nancy Solomon: I think that local residents have gotten whipped up and afraid of the whole wind power, and that some of that whipping up has definitely come from the oil and gas industry. It's been documented. Are there real neighbors involved in this who were protesting Murphy and concerned? Yes, but where are they getting their information? They're getting it from think tanks that are funded by the oil and gas industry.

Brian Lehrer: By the way, you or the governor didn't happen to mention the Turnpike series last night, did you? The Mets just won their divisional playoff round, so they'll go on to the National League Championship series. They did that by beating the Philadelphia Phillies. It seems to me that for all the talk about a potential subway series in New York City, we just had a super exciting turnpike series that must have divided New Jersey in half. I don't know why it doesn't get that nickname.

Nancy Solomon: We didn't talk about it on the air, but we talked about it off the air. I will tell you that, I don't know if I should say this, we do the show in his pool house. He's a very wealthy man. For many years he came to Newark to do the show, and now we're giving him a turn to stay at home and we do the show from there. We do it in his pool house. The pool house has a basement like playroom with a pool table and a TV. He kept running down there to check the score, which I don't know why he couldn't do that on his phone during our one minute breaks. During one of the breaks, I had to call him to come back. That was funny. I will tell you the other only--

Brian Lehrer: Now, we're getting the real story from it's Governor Murphy.

Brian Lehrer: He was rooting for the Mets. He is a Red Sox fan as I am. I think that really there is the 1986 series that still causes pain, but the enemy of our enemy is our friend so the Mets--

Brian Lehrer: Anybody who plays against the Yankees.

Nancy Solomon: Exactly. He was rooting for the Mets and boy, wasn't that amazing last night.

Brian Lehrer: I'm calling it a turnpike series and I want that name to stick the next time the Mets meet the Phillies in a high stakes series of games. Ask Governor Murphy airs once a month on WNYC, hosted by Nancy Solomon. Talk to you next month, if not before.

Nancy Solomon: Thanks, Brian.

 

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