Ask the Mayor: Schools Shutdown; NYC vs NY's '3 Percent' Threshold; Socially Distanced Thanksgiving

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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Now, as every Friday at this time, it's time for our weekly Ask the Mayor segment. My questions and yours for Mayor Bill de Blasio at 646-435-7280 or you can tweet a question, just use the hashtag #AsktheMayor. Good morning, Mr. Mayor. Welcome back to WNYC.

Mayor de Blasio: Thank you, Brian. How are you doing today?

Brian: I'm doing all right. Thank you very much. I cringe a little to ask this question after the way you had to answer it last week, but do you have any news for us on positivity rates and any actions that they will demand?

Mayor: Yes, let me just go through today's indicators. Just getting them in front of me here. The hospital admissions at this point, they continue to be higher certainly than we wanted to be, 115 today. The positivity level for COVID 34.45%. Again, we still do see a surprising lag there, we're watching that carefully. That could be a good thing, but we still need to know more. ICU's are doing well. Thank God. Not too much of a crowding situation there. New reported cases, this again is worrisome as all hell, it's 1,255 now, just for a single day, 1,255. Overall testing 2.36. That number sometimes goes up as more results come in.

Overall testing seven-day rolling average is now at 3.02. Those are the indicators. The overall situation on restrictions that are coming. I've been very overt about the fact that the governor has said an orange zone is coming to New York City, by our projections, based on the state data, Brian, that will happen soon after Thanksgiving, probably the first week of December. That means a variety of restrictions, including closing indoor dining and closing gyms among other things.

Again, I don't say that with anything but sorrow for the people who work in those places who need them for their livelihood, the people who own those small businesses and try to make them work through this, but that is what's going to happen. Then on schools, we're going to have an update certainly before Thanksgiving. I think in the next few days, we're going to have an update on the reopening plan and what it's going to take.

Brian: Let me ask you about businesses and something about schools, and then we'll go to the phones. Crain's has an article today on a theory from the business community, that New York City, because of tests and contact tracing has reliable data on what is causing the infection spikes. For example, Randy Peers, President of the Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce is quoted saying, "If the city and state are going to make shutdown decisions, businesses want to see the evidence behind the decisions."

Similarly, a quote from Robert Bookman, a lawyer for the industry group, the New York Hospitality Alliance says, "Since indoor dining in New York was allowed, there has been zero contact tracing evidence thus far of any restaurant-related spread. They have the name and contact info of somebody--" Oh, the quote continues. I apologize. He's saying, "and they have the name and contact info of someone from every table." That's the end of the quote. Mr. Mayor, the question is, that's a claim from the business lobby, but do you have any data that contradicts that?

Mayor: I want to do a two-part answer, it is really important here, Brian. We have a massive body of evidence from around the country and around the world of the vulnerabilities created by people being indoors without masks on and that obviously means indoor dining, because you have to take your mask off to eat and drink. In gyms, it's about the amount of exertion, the amount of air coming in and out, even if you try and wear a mask and that can be hard in the gym. That has been proven many times over.

In terms of specific situations up to now, we've been very overt about the fact that test and trace core is not seeing specific major problems coming out of those sectors. That's not the question though. The question is where are we going? Look, this is painful to talk about, Brian. The city has been through so much, but when we have 1,255 new cases in a 24-hour period, and when you and I were talking, as recently as first half of September, that number was 200, 300 kind of thing. Something is going on here, we have to address and the only way we can address it is by putting restrictions in place. We know this, we know this from what we did in March and April.

We know it even as recently as what we did in Brooklyn Queens, which were very high positivity levels. By putting restrictions in place, we were able to bring those right back down. I agree with the state on this, we need restrictions. It's about what we have learned over and over again in this city and around the state and around the world. It's just clear that restrictions are the only way to turn back this kind of a surge.

Brian: To be clear, what you're saying is our own test and trace data do not reflect that COVID is spreading in restaurants, but experience from around the world tells you that it will if we continue to go down that road while cases are increasing outside?

Mayor: That's a pretty good summary. I would say, look at it this way. We see a very painful trend now. The trend couldn't be clearer. There's a second wave of bearing down on us. The reason I still think we can fight it back is because our hospitals are holding very, very strong and it's not manifesting as a lot of folks going to the ICU still, thank God, I'm knocking on wood and praying as I say that, but we can see the handwriting on the wall, the state can see the handwriting on the wall and you've seen the restrictions have been put in place around the country.

We have to start using restrictions to fight this back. The orange zone approach is the next major set of restrictions we can put in place. God forbid we have to go even farther than that and go back closer to where we were in March and April, but these are the next things we can do that have been proven to work. It's not a matter of, do you wait until you're clear. I'll parallel it to the schools. We were doing very, very well in the schools, but we said that if we didn't have a level at which we said, "Wait a minute, this is going to cause a reset," where we could end up not doing so well in the schools.

We put that 3% down to say if we get to that level, we need to reset the equation and we're going to come back with stricter standards. The same when you think about the restaurants, when you think about the gyms. Right now, thank God, they have not been a major nexus of the problem, but at the rate things are going, unfortunately, they well could be and they are the places where people come into close contact without their mask on or where they're breathing heavily, the kinds of things that spread COVID. We cannot wait until it's too late. We have to start putting restrictions in place.

Brian: Joseph on Staten Island, you're on WNYC with the mayor. Hello, Joseph.

Joseph: Hi. Question is, isn't it true to see these proposed shutdowns is just because you want to destroy Thanksgiving and Christmas and your attack on our way of-

Brian: You're kidding, right?

Joseph: -life here in America and you just really want to get rid of the way of life that we actually enjoy?

Brian: Really, Joseph? Where did you get that?

Joseph: Mr. Mayor, isn't that true?

Brian: Joseph, where did you get that?

Joseph: Just be honest, Mr. Mayor, just be honest.

Mayor: Oh, I'll have to be honest, Joseph. I'll be very honest.

Brian: Let me just say, Mr. Mayor. That's not what he told our screener he wanted to ask you. He had an actual question theoretically, but wow.

Mayor: Well, Brian, some people like to play games. Joseph, listen, I'm sad that you even think that's possible. I have a family. I love my family. I want to get together. I'm not going to see a lot of my relatives this Thanksgiving or this Christmas that I cherish getting together with, have my entire life, but it's what we have to do is stay safe. Next year, Thanksgiving will be back to normal. I truly believe that Christmas is going to be back to normal. I believe that what we're all supposed to do is protect each other and keep each other safe.

I want businesses to survive and I want them to thrive in the future. I care for the people who built those small businesses with their bare hands. I care for the people that work there and their livelihoods are in danger, but I especially want to save lives and protect everyone, and protect us from much greater restrictions if we don't act now. If the same thing, I said about the schools. We kept them safe, we proved we could open schools, by the way, Joseph, I don't know what your political beliefs are, but I caught a lot of hell for opening schools in September.

I wanted to open schools because kids needed it, families needed it, I believed we could do it safely. We did do it safely, but I also said if at any point we worry from the facts, from the data, from the science that we need to take additional precautions, we're going to, and this is the exact same thing. I want people to live their lives. I want people to have their freedoms, but we've also got to protect people and we've got to save lives and that's the balance we're striking.

Brian: Well, we know that theory is actually going around some corners of right-wing social media, that there is this liberal plot to try to destroy Thanksgiving and Christmas and otherwise use COVID as an excuse to force businesses to close because they hate business and all of that stuff.

Mayor: For the record I love Thanksgiving and I celebrate Christmas with my family like so many other people and I want it to be part of our lives going forward. We have to keep people alive so they can celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas going forward.

Brian: You shouldn't even have to dignify it with a response. Laurie in Manhattan. You're on WNYC with the Mayor. Hello.

Laurie: Hi, good morning Brian. Good morning, Your Honor. As a mom to a current 8th Grader, just to follow up regarding schools, he is in a public school looking forward to applying to high school. When will you and the DOE announce what's going on regarding applications? What will the criteria be for screened and specialized/Performing Arts in public high school? Thank you so much.

Mayor: Thank you, Laurie. Laurie, I just want to know, seriously I remember vividly when my kids were going through the application process, which is pretty nerve-wracking and a lot of anxiety and anticipation with that. We need to answer those questions clearly. With the specialized high schools, we're going to have the test. The problem is we can't have the test the way we normally do, obviously, because of COVID. We're trying to figure out an alternative. We'll announce that soon. That will stay within the standards that we need in terms of getting people results and answers by the end of this school year, of course, so everyone knows what's going to happen for next school year.

We have a big problem when we try and think about admissions beyond the specialized high schools because the things we normally focus on, things like grades, obviously, the grading policy has had to be modified. We don't know what's happening with the state tests. I'm someone who's very dubious about high-stakes testing, to begin with, but it's been a part of our lives but even now, we don't know what it's going to look like or if it's going to be possible. There's a lot up in the air.

We are going to answer those questions soon. We have to answer them soon, so we can put things in motion that everyone will get their answers by an appropriate point in the spring and get their final assignments to their new schools. We're still working through the right way to do it in what has been pretty much an ever-changing reality. We will have those answers soon, Laurie.

Brian: I think we have a whole other question on middle and high school admissions, From Nina in Harlem. You're on WNYC with the mayor. Hello, Nina.

Nina: Good morning Mayor de Blasio. My name is Nina Worley, and I'm a junior at LaGuardia High School in Manhattan, as well as the leader at Teens Take Charge, a youth-led organization fighting for educational equity in New York City public schools. My peers and I have submitted a foil request that corroborated with testimony from students across the city to show that screens perpetuate segregation.

Despite the fact that Black and Hispanic students make up 65% of the school population, highly-screened schools like Eleanor Roosevelt, the class of 2025 is only 5%, Black and Hispanic. In addition, this pandemic has hit low-income communities of color at disproportionate rates, making it even harder for Black and brown students to gain admission using these current screens. Will you stand against screens, stand against racist policy, ensure that every single public school student has access to a quality and equitable education for this year's admission cycle?

Mayor: Thank you, Nina, very much. I appreciate Teens Takes Charge a lot. I've watched your work. It's actually been a very important work to us in terms of what we've done, for example, on social-emotional learning. I really want to thank you for what you and all the other students are doing. Look, that example you gave just unacceptable, obviously, we have to figure out a better way going forward. This is why I felt, and I know specialized high schools are different than screen schools, we have to act on both and it's different venues in terms of where we act, but the same concept applies. What's happening in the specialized high schools.

Very similar to what you just said, with Eleanor Roosevelt. Stuyvesant was about 3%, you said 5%, I think, Eleanor Roosevelt. 3% Black and Latino in one of the recent Stuyvesant admissions. It's just not acceptable. It can't be what we do in the future of the city. We're working right now to figure out what is the way forward to change that. The status quo is broken, it needs to be changed. We're also dealing, of course, with just the practical reality. What do we do in the middle of COVID with all admissions, how do we make it work?

We are going to come forward with a plan to do the best we can to address that in the here and now. I think more work is going to be needed, obviously in the years to come but to the core of what you're saying, I agree with you on the core point. There's just not an acceptable balance in both the specialized high schools and the screen schools and we have to do something different.

Brian: But when on the screens? You've been in office for seven years. I know you need Albany for the specialized high schools. Do you need them for the screens and if not, why isn't it done already?

Mayor: We made a number of changes over time. We've also moved a number of other initiatives. I think the bottom line is, Brian, everything has been about greater equality. That's why the whole vision of the schools was called Equity and Excellence. Don't for a moment miss the fact that Pre-K and 3k then, AP advanced placement courses for all, including the high schools that never had any because of structural racism. Many things we've been doing, changing the way we distributed resources to schools to create more equity for schools that had been underfunded. It's all been pointing in the same direction. It's now time to deal with the screens.

Again, we're going to come forward with a vision, I don't think it'll all be settled in one year, but we're going to come forward with a vision of the next things we need to do to address the screens and make them more equitable. Whether it's in my time or whoever comes after me, we need to finish the mission on the specialized high schools and come up with a different model. Maybe there's a compromise out there that everyone can live with but this current model is just unacceptable.

Brian: Also on equity in the schools, we could go back and forth, as people have been doing all week, on whether it was the right decision to close the schools for now but maybe worse than any opening or closing decision, it's been discussed that around 60,000 kids still do not have the devices or in some cases, it's internet access for remote learning. Again, this has been going on since March, and you're the inequality Mayor focused on reducing educational inequities. Who failed to close this digital divide in this long a time period, and what are you doing about it?

Mayor: I respect the question. I just think this has not been a fair discussion. Remember, unlike pretty much anywhere in this country, we said from the moment we knew we had to close schools in March, that we would provide for free, highest quality technology to any student didn't have it. Within the course of just weeks, we got 300,000 devices in the hands of our students. Then we said from that point on, we would continue to, if a device broke, if the service wasn't working, if there was a problem at homeless shelter, whatever it was, that we were going to keep doing this and pay whatever it took to get it done. That's been the standard.

The problem has been two things I think. One, sometimes there's just not enough supply of devices. This has been a problem all over the country as the whole country has gone to remote learning. The chancellor spoke to this yesterday. We are constantly reordering, but we have to wait for the companies to provide the product and then we immediately get to the students. The second thing has been, we hear the complaints but I keep saying just call 311. If you need a new device, so long as we have one in stock, we're getting to you immediately or as soon as it comes in. If you're having a service problem, we'll switch your service. It's really a very responsive system.

We've had some kids in the shelters, who had a service, had a device but the service wasn't working in the shelter. We sent technicians in to put them on a new company, different service, which does work better. We're doing that literally family by family in the shelter. We're literally reaching out to every family and saying, "We want to confirm your services working if it's not, we're going to switch you to a new provider." That's as hands-on and focus as it could possibly be. We can't always overcome the lack of supply immediately.

Anyone who needs, I must say it again, any New York City public school student is having any kind of problem, doesn't have a device, doesn't have the right service, just call 311, and as quickly as we can resolve it, we're going to.

Brian: Michelle in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with the Mayor. Hello, Michelle.

Michelle: Hi there. Thank you for taking my call. Hi, Mr. Mayor.

Mayor: Hi, Michelle.

Michelle: Hi, I just wanted to-- It's curious. I listen every Friday and as a public school teacher, who's on her lunch break at this time, I get to hear this segment. I often hear you just talking about the blended learning and the return of students to classrooms and you tend to frame it as a big success. Although I understand your heart is probably in the right place, I just wonder if you know what an average day looks like inside the school for a kid who is doing blended learning?

Brian: What do you have in mind Michelle?

Mayor: Yes, go ahead.

Michelle: I can tell you what I know about the day based on the fact that I'm doing this. Kids are sitting in classrooms because we had an option for students to go blended or stay all remote. It really took double the staff to be able to teach all these children and so as a result, the kids who are in school on the days that they're in school, at least where I'm teaching, sit in classrooms with headphones on, masks on, in front of a Zoom screen and usually with Wi-Fi that is not the greatest and windows open, so they're wearing coats and hats and gloves, not gloves but scarves, will be sitting and doing remote learning at school.

The teacher who's present in the room is not a subject area teacher. They are not delivering direct instruction. They're simply there almost as a proctor. It's like a study hall, and so it's just a real far cry from what we think of when we think of kids going to school at any normal- [crosstalk]

Brian: Michelle, let me take you one more step for the mayor, before we get a response, what would you recommend to improve it?

Michelle: Well, what I would have recommended from the beginning, I think, was that if there had been some uniform decision, for instance, to go all remote, I think a lot of resources could have been used to bolster that and to make that as powerful and meaningful as possible rather than attempt to do this, like, blended, everybody gets a little something, and then in a way, it just has done nothing but create more chaos for families, for teachers, for administrators.

I've seen just a lot of unnecessary chaos, and it's painful, and I just have a hard time a week after week listening to this celebration of what it has meant to bring children back to school when going back to school looks like something out of a dystopian novel.

Brian: Michelle, thank you, and we're going to get you a response from the mayor right now.

Mayor: Yes, Michelle, respectfully, you do know a lot more about the day to day life than me because you're a teacher and I thank you for being a teacher, but dystopian novel, I'm sorry, I'm just not buying that, respectfully. Why do we have so many parents right now saying, "Please get our schools back open again." They value what their kids are experiencing in school, with educators, with counselors with everyone who can help them, and we've been very open about the fact that it's not everything we want to be by any stretch.

We're just going to disagree on two things. One, should we have gone all remote? No. If you wanted to go on remote, I respect that. I didn't think it was the right thing to do. I didn't think it was fair to our kids, especially the kids who need help the most. I think if you went from March of 2020, theoretically, all the way to September 2021, and a kid never got in the classroom with an educator and with caring adults who could help them, I think it would have been a massive mistake.

The two months that we got in I think helped a lot of kids to get re-centered, refocused, gave them some hope, gave them support and love they needed. I would not trade that in. This was the right thing to do, and we're going to bring the schools back. I disagree with you on should we have gone all remote. I also think that in the end, for kids to go someplace where they could get some structure, again, I know there's a lot of in-person teaching going on, it's not everything you described, respectfully, I know this for a fact, I've had talked to enough teachers and principals to know there's plenty of in-person instruction happening in our schools.

There are other times when kids are doing remote work in a school classroom, but I still rather they be in a school classroom, where there is a lot of support, even if it isn't the subject expert, there's still a lot of support. We did put a lot of resources into bringing in more teachers, but I'm not going to be ashamed of trying to get kids the help they needed. It was exactly right. They couldn't get that help at home. Even the most loving parents could not provide the support that trained educators could. We're just going to disagree on that one.

Brian: There's an article in The Wall Street Journal today by the reporter Jimmy Vealkind who we played a clip of with the governor on yesterday's show because I'm sure you heard that moment where he was giving the governor a hard time about--

Mayor: No, I actually didn't.

Brian: You didn't.

Mayor: Just for the record.

Brian: Okay, that's fair.

Mayor: I don't pay a lot attention going back over the media of the day, but go ahead.

Brian: That's fair, but he was giving the governor a hard time for confusing parents on Wednesday when you were supposed to be making an announcement and having your news conference and that got delayed for hours, and meanwhile, the governor went out and said he did overrule you and the schools are going to open but then, of course, you announced that the schools were going to close.

Mayor: No, Brian, wait a minute, he never said he overruled, and that's just not accurate. I mean, that much I know-

Brian: Well, he said he overruled with the orange zones in the previous weeks, by the way.

Mayor: Wait, I got to get this hold on. If you're going to change the facts in the middle of question. Let's be clear here, my friend. I want to be clear, the governor and I spoke many times on Wednesday morning. It is not a happy conversation to say we have to close schools, no one wanted to. We had a number we needed to reconfirm because it was so exactly on the line, we wanted to check it and we needed to talk about what would come next.

I didn't see the press conference to be fair, but I did see enough of the transcript to know the governor reiterated that New York City has set a standard and we lived by that standard and we close down when we hit 3%. I just don't know if you're portraying it right.

Brian: That's fair, but the article today says the governor offered you a pathway out which was to go by the state standard instead of the city standard, which wouldn't have had a set 3% yet and you declined. Would you confirm that or refute it?

Mayor: Let me say two things. One, I'm going to be very careful not to get into extensive private conversations with the governor. I think it only confuses matters, and I want to respect the relationship and communication. Two, we were very overt in the press conference on Wednesday about the fact that the state does have a different test compilation system. It is true.

People said, "Well, how on earth could that be," and the fact is New York City, for decades has had its own approach with our Department of Health, which is a pretty legendary organization and is here to protect New Yorkers, and we love the state in New York. We love the CDC, but we protect our own way. That's been the case for a long, long time. We have a very cautious conservative data-driven approach, and our numbers are what govern us.

The governor, I talked about the fact that there were different state numbers, but I said in the end, "Look, we've set a very clear standard here, and we need to stick to that standard." He understood and he amplified that point, I want to be fair to him, and I appreciate it. He said many times the city set a standard and he understood why the city was sticking to that standard.

Brian: Scott in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with the mayor. Hello, Scott.

Scott: Hi, Mr. Mayor. Hey, Brian. Bear with me for a second, I just got to run through this is about eviction, and I have a notice, a motion for eviction on in the early December, and the lawyer filed it under say pre-COVID, which it was, but I've been doing everything I can in this economy to get a job, blah, blah, blah, I'm not making excuses for myself in that sense, but I've applied for a one-shot deal, and I got denied twice.

Legal Aid won't get me a lawyer because they say I earn too much money, which is ridiculous. I'm wondering, I don't know what to do, I thought that evictions were placed on hold, and the HRA, it can't help me. I'm facing homelessness in the early December. I don't know what to do. Can you offer any advice? I don't know if you have any questions for me as to my situation.

Mayor: Scott, I can definitely offer help. We have a tenant protection office, which literally will work with any individual, and we'll work with you specifically to figure out what we can do to help, we do not want anyone evicted. Look, those who have enough money to pay should be paying the rent, those who can't pay the rent, or are suffering some other hardship because of what their landlord is doing to them should not be evicted, and if you'll give your information to the WNYC, we have a very aggressive office, we have lawyers that can help. Let's see what we can do to help you and keep you in your apartment.

Brian: Scott, we will take your contact information off the air, and happy- [crosstalk]

Mayor: Brian, just reiterating to anyone who is having an eviction problem, they should call 311. We've been providing free lawyers to counsel people or even represent them as needed. We have a very vigorous tenant protection office. Anyone facing eviction now should call 311, and we can provide them help for free.

Brian: As that caller is facing his hard time, and as we are running out of time on this segment, this will be our last Ask the Mayor before Thanksgiving, obviously, and even in normal years, it's a time that the problem of food and security gets some attention. This year it's off the charts in the city and elsewhere as I don't have to tell you, and as we've been discussing since the start of the pandemic shutdowns on this show.

Maybe you saw the images from Dallas on TV this week of miles of cars lined up as if in traffic jams, but they weren't waiting for the congestion to clear, they were in food pantry lines. My question for you is what is the city doing at this point to meet the need, and anything specific for Thanksgiving?

Mayor: Yes, it's such an important question, Brian, I really appreciate that. Look, what we sent to the beginning the crisis is we're not going to allow any New Yorker to go hungry. We put a huge amount of resources into that. The bottom line is anyone who does not have access to food and needs it can call 311 or go to nyc.gov/getfood. We are supporting soup kitchens, food pantries, we have grab-and-go meals available at public schools even while the schools are temporarily closed. We are still distributing meals, not just to kids, but the families, to anyone who needs it during daytime hours on school days.

If someone needs home delivery, there are a lot of people just can't get out for physical or medical reasons, we will provide direct home delivery if that's what's needed. I really want to emphasize I'm with you. This is a painful time for people to be going hungry. We're not going to allow it, and we want people to have food on Thanksgiving. Anyone that needs help, just pick up that phone and please call 311.

Brian: Mr. Mayor, I hope you have a happy socially distanced Thanksgiving. My family will be doing Zoom Thanksgiving, by the way. My kids and I usually go to my parents in Queens, but I'll be staying at home. My brother will be staying at his home. We're gathering virtually and we're all okay with that. You want to say anything about what your family is doing as you put out the public health call for others to separate as much as possible?

Mayor: Well, people who were going to come from out of town are not coming, that's for sure. We're not traveling for Thanksgiving or Christmas as we often did. We're still figuring out exactly how to do things, but I believe it's either do it by Zoom or do it with real careful distancing, very small groups, essentially the people in your own household and if you bring in a few others, be very careful and practice the distancing.

It's a tough time, Brian, to think about what we're thankful for, but we should be thankful that so many people are doing such good work to protect us and our healthcare workers, our first responders, the way New Yorkers are protecting each other. Many people, just wearing that mask, they're helping to protect each other. That's something to be thankful for. We're going to get through this. I think we can conclude on a very clear point, Brian, that you and I, proud progressives, are celebrating Thanksgiving and we will be celebrating other holidays, and we want people to be able to enjoy them, but we most importantly need everyone to be safe.

Brian: I know you're responding there indirectly to a caller from earlier who some listeners right at this moment may not have heard who actually accused the mayor of wanting to destroy Thanksgiving and Christmas. No. He shouldn't have even have had to respond to that. Mr. Mayor, thank you as always. Talk to you in two weeks since we'll be off for the Friday after Thanksgiving.

Mayor: All right. Have a good Thanksgiving too, Brian. Happy Thanksgiving to you and all your listeners.

 

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