Ask the Mayor: NYPD Report on Summer Protests, Public School Admissions and COVID

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Now, as usual, on Fridays, we begin this hour with our weekly Ask The Mayor segment, my questions and yours for Mayor Bill de Blasio at 646-435-7280 or you can tweet a question, just use the #AskTheMayor. The mayor will be followed by Santa Claus today. At 11:35 or so, parents of small children, we'll go from Ask Bill de Blasio to Ask Santa Claus.

There is breaking news as the mayor joins us today on two fronts. Actually, three fronts. Newest one having to do with restaurants. We'll get to that. Also, New York City schools and the NYPD. The mayor is actually just finishing up a press conference on these breaking news stories and he'll be with us in a minute, but the department of investigation of the city has released a report on how the police department has handled the protests this year. The mayor is already saying something needs to change.

For example, the department of investigation report says the NYPD's Community Affairs Bureau, it's like the neighborhood policing arm, "Was not part of the NYP D response to the Floyd protests." We will as the mayor, certainly, after all his talking about community policing, why wasn't that the case? In a video this morning, the mayor has also said there were choices made, strategic choices that weren't good choices. It turns out that ended up causing problems. The report says that they ended up exacerbating tensions. That's exactly what the police aren't supposed to do.

The other story about the schools as Gothamist reports it, in a massive shakeup of how the city handles admissions to its middle and high schools, the department of education will remove all selective screens for middle schools for the 2021-2022 academic year and eliminate district priority for high schools altogether. District priority is another thing that's seen as a barrier to desegregation of the New York City public schools. That's breaking this morning.

As for the restaurants, Gothamist has published a story on what's being announced about that this morning. Pulling that up right now. It's going to be even tougher with the restrictions that are coming up to get inside a restaurant. The headline on Gothamist right now is "De Blasio says he is working with the state to reverse the rule stating outdoor diners could not use restaurant bathrooms." There are a couple of negatives in there. What that means is you're not supposed to go indoors to the restaurant at all under the new rules, if you're there for outdoor dining while indoor dining is shuttered. That even includes going to the bathroom in the restaurants.

At least the mayor is working with the state to try to reverse that, which is apparently a state policy to reverse the rule of stating outdoor diners cannot use restaurant bathrooms. This is also an issue for delivery workers, as we've discussed on this show. The people who go pick up the food for takeout food and bring it to your door, in many cases, the restaurants don't even allow them to come in and use the bathroom and they're out on their e-bikes or in their cars all day, all night doing these deliveries. It's one of the ways that they do not have decent working conditions.

I think we have the mayor now. Do we? Almost. We're getting that lined up. Listeners, this is what happens sometimes when there is a lot of breaking news. The mayor will go out and meet some other members of the press before he makes his usual 11:05 appointment here. We've gotten the two-minute warning now, at least. You know how if you're watching like a presidential news conference coverage and you're on CNN or something, and you're waiting, "Okay, what is the president going to say?" They're vamping, they're vamping and they're vamping and Wolf Blitzer breathes a little sigh of relief and says, "Well, we've gotten the two-minute warning." We've just gotten the two-minute warning.

As we will get into these stories with Mayor De Blasio, I certainly will also ask him about the expected further shutdown in New York city that he warned earlier this week would be coming shortly after Christmas is what he says with the surge in COVID cases continuing. On the other side of that, small businesses are complaining about being forced to close rather than to impose distancing and occupancy protocols, which they say they can do safely.

On the other side of the coin, the Teachers' Union is complaining because school buildings might be kept open and the union doesn't like that. We'll Ask The Mayor to address both things as well as how public hospitals are coping. I know if people are concerned about all the backs and forths on things this year. I saw that public hospitals suspended elective surgeries, but then I did also see that they've already started them. A lot to talk to Mayor De Blasio about as he joins us now. Mr. Mayor, welcome back to WNYC.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Thank you, Brian. How are you doing today?

Brian: I'm doing all right. I was just going over some of the breaking news regarding restaurants, regarding police, regarding the schools with the listeners. Let's jump right in on the policing story. Well, let me ask you this way. I'm sorry. The last I saw, the Department of Investigation Report had not been publicly released. You know I've been asking you all year about these multiple videos showing kettling and violent arrests, human rights watch called for Commissioner Shea to be fired or disciplined because it looks like policy, not rogue officers. Your response frequently it has been, "Let's wait for The Department of Investigation Report. What can you tell us?

Mayor Bill: Thank you, Brian. The Department Of Investigation did a very powerful report. It was tough. It was objective. It's quite clear to me that they really did the tough research to figure out exactly what happened and it lays out in the clearest form I've seen since those protests exactly what happened. I also did a video in response to it. I'd ask anyone who cares about this issue, they both read the DOI report and look at my video, which is on our city social media.

The report says we made mistakes on a structural level not just individual officers. Clearly, individual officers, not the vast majority, but some individual officers did things that are wrong and must be held accountable and are being disciplined. They made the point, there were structural problems, there were strategic problems. I own those problems. That's my responsibility. That's the commissioner's responsibility. He and I both-- We evaluated report together. We agreed with its assessment. We agreed with his conclusions and its recommendations, we will implement them.

I want to be really clear. Kettling shouldn't have happened, will not happen in the future, was never in the NYPD patrol guide, it was never something that was supposed to happen, cannot, will not. The arrest of journalists cannot, will not happen. The arrest of legal observers cannot and will not happen. These protests were unprecedented in so many ways. There were ever-changing realities. There was, unfortunately, violence mixed in, in some places there was looting, but it does not forgive the mistakes. Deeply complex, but that again means we have to learn to do things better and changing times. I accept the report and I'm going to act on it.

Why wouldn't acting on it, given the number of incidents that got caught on video and what I think is-- Well, you tell me, is this a structural critique or not? I think you just said not, but it's making broad recommendations about changing existing policy and creating a protest response unit which makes it sound structural. Why isn't this a firing offense for the commissioner who allowed this to happen repeatedly?

Mayor Bill: Look, that's why I'm asking people to both look at the report, read it, actually read it. It takes a little time, but it's very clearly written, very well documented, and look at my video response because then I think the truth comes out. We were confronted with a truly unprecedented situation. Protests that we had not seen before with no organization or leaders spontaneous social media-driven, ever-moving ever-changing, intermixed with a small group of people who are meant to do violence, but unfortunately truly intermixed, then overlaid with several nights of systematic looting.

It was unbelievable perfect storm within the perfect storm of COVID and the report lays out how difficult it was to deal with those circumstances and how the most fundamental mission for all of us was to stop anyone from dying. That really is what shines through. We were trying to avoid what was happening in other cities. In other cities, protesters were killed, horrible injuries to officers, national guard on the street, looting much more extensively, police precincts burned. We were trying to stop all of that from happening and in the main did. That was really my responsibility and commissioner's responsibility more than any other consideration was to keep people safe.

We had to do it better is what this report says. That maybe those core missions were achieved, but they needed to be done better. There were mistakes in thinking and strategy and some things that were just not aligned properly to allow us to get to what we needed for protests that were about such a profound issue as the problems of policing and sparked by the profound injustice of the murder of George Floyd. It doesn't say, "Fire people," DOI has done reports before where they say, "Fire people," or they say people deserve criminal charges. It doesn't say that.

I think they're right not to say that. It's not that people did "Fireable offenses" is that they were trying to keep horrible things from happening and still respect people's rights, but we didn't do it as well as we needed to and we have to do it better going forward and we will. Everyone in the police leadership accepts this report and takes the criticism and agrees to the changes, which is what you want oversight to achieve honestly.

Brian: I haven't gotten to see it myself since it just came out, but our news department is reporting to me that some of the quotes in it are that the NYPD "Lacked a clear strategy, tailored to respond to the large-scale protests" and that NYPDs "Use of force and certain crowd control tactics produced excessive enforcement that heightened tensions." One other one, the report states that the community affairs bureau was not part of the NYPD response to the Floyd protests.

I want to ask you about that one because you've been talking for years about how your community policing or neighborhood policing initiative is changing policing in New York City. How could that happen under these circumstances? Why weren't community affairs officers involved with response to the protests over policing affairs?

Mayor Bill: They were. I said that the report I accept and I agree with the recommendations, but I've also said publicly, doesn't mean I agree every sentence in it. I think that is not the full characterization. Community affairs was being utilized to try and work with protest leaders and members and try and coordinate things and communicate, but it needed to be done in a much more systematic fashion. Now, look, we had different leadership at that time in community affairs, we had different leadership as chief of patrol. Both those jobs have changed.

We now have chief Juanita Holmes, highest ranking black woman in the history of the NYPD as Chief of Patrol, anytime there's protests in the future, she will be commanding all of our officers at protests. We have chief Jeff Maddrey as Chief of Community affairs. He did an outstanding job in Brooklyn North at the time where he was chief, working with protestors and really trying to hear them and trying to have a dialogue.

He is now bringing that approach citywide. Even before this report the personnel had changed in a way that I think allows us to implement this report's recommendations very readily. Right now, I think it's clear. If we're confronted with something like this in the future, the NYPD has to have a different approach to dialogue gentler presence and less presence in many cases. Needs to really understand that first a majority of people are peaceful, even if there's some violent people intermixed and that was real. That was very real and very systematic and it happened all over the country.

There were people who came there to do violence. They were a small number, but unfortunately, they had a real outsized impact, but we still have to take a different approach. Some of the things that at the time people said were exacerbating the tensions, this report confirms that. Sometimes the police's actions, even if it was meant to try and stop violence and stop looting and things that none of us want, did unfortunately, further frustrate the protestors who were there for an honest and peaceful purpose, and that we have to do better on

Brian: All right, before we get to some calls, I also want to turn to the education policy announcement that you made this morning. Again, quoting from Gothamist to give listeners just the headline and then you can elaborate in a massive shakeup of how the city handles admissions to its middle and high schools. The department of education will remove all selective screens for middle schools for the next academic year and eliminate district priority for high schools altogether. What does it mean?

Mayor Bill: It means we're moving to a more equitable system. Look, the reality of this city has been too many exclusionary realities in our schools, too many ways that kids were not given opportunity. The most egregious, is something I've been fighting on for years, specialized high schools that do not reflect the diversity of our city where there's very little presence from black and Latino kids that has to change, but that unfortunately takes the legislature. The screened schools in too many cases, do not reflect the kind of fairness, the kind of diversity we want.

What we're doing is taking a step and there will be others in the future to say, "Let's create a system where there's maximum choice, where kids can apply to more places, not be shut out because of geography, not be shut out because of artificial screens. Every time we do that, we're going to be able to show a new model that works, but we're going to do it in stages and we're going to do it with a lot of involvement with parents and educators and at the community level, because this is a big change." Clearly, also because of COVID, it would have been irresponsible to have middle school screens to begin with when there weren't even state tests this year when grading has been thrown off, it didn't make sense for many reasons.

Brian: The specialized high schools, which have gotten most of the press on screens unchanged, right?

Mayor Bill: That can only be changed through state law. We're going to continue to have a conversation with legislature. Look, I'm the first to say since it's a season of reflection that I wish I had approached that whole issue differently. I think what I tried to do or the chance of tried to do was entirely right if the question is morality and education and fairness, but we did it in a way that left too many people uncomfortable and too many people oppositional and we didn't find the right way to work with the legislature. That's something we need to try to resolve going forward. That's can't just be left alone. That's a broken status quo, but that can only happen to legislature. What we can do on screens is something the city controls itself.

Brian: Let's take a call, Trey in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with the mayor. Hello, Trey.

Trey: Hi Brian. Thank you for this outlet. Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

Mayor Bill: Good morning, Trey.

Trey: My name is Trey. I'm a general manager of a restaurant in Brooklyn. Normally, I staff about 80 people and seat over a hundred people at a time. This week I have no dining customers and a staff of maybe 10 that I have shifts for. I would like to say a big thank you for the street feeding and making it permanent. Although, the real reason I'm calling is if there's an actual plan for this winter to provide security for the workers, many of whom we all know are immigrants and to help keep us open and working.

Given that you've just shut down indoor dining, which by your own records accounted for a whopping 1.4%, 3% of COVID tracked cases and was the fifth leading place yet can't be bothered to tell us two, three, and four, and considering number one is house gatherings, we're in the middle of holiday season, and now you've taken away the only semi-safe space to get together with friends and family and will only drive more people to each other's houses. What is the plan? You seem to just be holding us as leverage against the federal government that really isn't inclined to do any major changes.

Mayor Bill: Trey, thank you for the question. I know it's heartfelt. I know when no one is holding you as leverage against the federal government. The federal government is not doing their job right now by giving us the kind of stimulus we deserve. We are not getting a stimulus from them that we deserve, but it has nothing to do with the choices around indoor dining, that's been determined by our health care leadership. Look, the state of New York makes these decisions and the state of New York refers to when you do the number one, number five, et cetera, that's based on a state analysis.

City has a different assessment and our health care leadership has been absolutely consistent in saying, when you start to see this kind of increase in the level of infection in this city, which has been skyrocketing, hospitalizations have been skyrocketing that you have to put restrictions in place if you want to stop it from becoming something that becomes out of control. Unfortunately, all over the world indoor dining where people are together inside with masks off is one of the most sensitive and problematic realities.

It doesn't always show up in the context, that's true, but it doesn't on one level-- That doesn't take away the facts that have been determined by research worldwide that it is one of the drivers of exposure. We don't want to see you suffer, but we need to do this for a brief period of time and now we have the vaccine. I think the simple way to look at is particularly, we can do larger restrictions, which we're talking to the state about right now. Stop this horrible momentum in terms of increase of infections.

Do that for a certain number of weeks, which traditionally has been somewhere in a two to four-week range. Then come out of that, with now the vaccine starting to be distributed out in communities, that could be the once and for all. It is not a big open-ended thing where you have to keep suffering. It is let's stop this infection increase and get the vaccine out there and then we take the big turn to the post COVID era. I want to see you guys get back with indoor dining as quickly as possible.

We have made your right and thank you for saying we have made the outdoor dining permanent, that's going to help a lot of restaurants. Takeout and delivery is going to keep going no matter what, but we just got to get you guys and all of us through the next month or two and then I really think it's a new reality.

Mayor Bill: Logan in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with the mayor. Hello.

Logan: Hi, good morning. My name is Logan. I'm just calling because on October 14th, the Civilian Complaint Review Board substantiated charges against NYPD officer Wayne Isaacs for use of excessive force in the murder of Delrawn Small. Delrawn Small was murdered in 2016. Earlier in this segment, Mr. Mayor you were talking about the DOI report that supposedly didn't recommend anything specific. This is a real clear case where the CCRB did recommend firing. My question is why haven't you served the disciplinary charges and schedule the trial to fire Wayne Isaacs?

Mayor Bill: Thank you, Logan, for the question. Just two points on the DOI report. No, I think it's quite specific. I don't want there to be any confusion, people should read the actual report and the 20 recommendations for the NYPD and then further recommendations for intensifying civilian oversight. Again, all of which I agree with. On this case, I need to find out the latest on what's going on with the scheduling. I really respect the role of CCRB. I have tried to intensify and strengthen the CCRB over these last seven years. I'm going to find out what is going on with that case and what the timing is and then we'll make that answer public.

Brian: Go ahead, you want to follow up? Go ahead.

Logan: This was four years ago that Dalrawn Small was murdered. We've been calling your office for months. Why do you need more information?

Mayor Bill: I need to know what the CCRB is saying and planning on doing. I just don't happen to know that. The case went through to a PD process a police department process. The CCRB has taken it up more recently. I need to hear from them what they intend to do. I just don't have that answer for you.

Brian: Logan, thank you. As a follow-up and tying this into the report this morning on policing during the protests, what kind of message does it send to the regular police officers who might be disciplined as individuals for using excessive force that's captured on video, when their superiors can make poor decisions documented in this report, with little or no consequences?

Mayor Bill: I think that's respectfully a false comparison. An individual officer was doing their best to do their job under tough circumstances is being respected for the job they did. Very few officers, we're talking about a force of 35,000. Very few did the things that show up on those videos as inappropriate, the ones who did are experiencing discipline for it.

What we're saying here is the leadership dealt with an incredibly tough situation, did stop the things I talked about a growth of violence, a growth of looting, the kinds of situations got out of control in so many other parts of America, that was addressed, in a way it was effective and needs to be respected. It cannot be left out of the equation, Brian. If we were having a conversation right now and the city had more and more days of looting, including as I said in the South Bronx where I was, Fordham road, Burnside Avenue, immigrant, Latino businesses destroyed by the looting.

You would not look at and say that was an acceptable outcome. If that had gone farther, I think everyone would rightfully say something horrible happened, if police precincts had burned, if people had died, thank God no one died in these protests, that took immense work to ensure no one died. We are saying the leadership didn't have enough of a strategy, didn't use the community fairs the way it could have been used, missed an opportunity to have a different kind of communication with the people in New York City, as did I.

We need to fix that. Again, I understand there's a journalistic impulse to want to see people fired or some kind of retribution. I don't look at it this way. I think if people say, "We did our job, but we didn't do good enough, we need to do better and agree to it and accept it and embrace it," that's something that I actually feel good about.

Brian: Jake in Brooklyn, a high school teacher, you're on WNYC with the mayor. Hello, Jake.

Jake: Hi, how are you?

Mayor Bill: Hi, Jake, how are you doing?

Jake: I'm doing okay. I'm a high school teacher. Right now6 I'm working probably two to three times my normal hours would be pre-pandemic. A lot of that is because I have to call houses for children that aren't coming to Zoom class, students that aren't coming to their Zoom class, or students that are not handing in work. Right now, I have about 50% of my students failing. It's just very difficult to talk to a parent or try to talk to a parent when Zoom classes aren't mandatory. I understand that we have to give the kids some elbow room because of everything that's going on.

Zoom classes aren't mandatory and they can make up the work because we have [unintelligible 00:26:32] now we have students that are failing to make up the work later on, it's just very difficult to say to a parent, "Hey, they can make this up later, but I would like it now." For the kids that a lot of them are failing because of a little bit too much elbow room. I understand, could there be a policy where-- Look, if you guys want the kids to pass, I understand just tell them that, and then we can go in and we can do checkups on the kids. We can make sure that they're doing okay.

We can call them for those reasons, and possibly get our day down as well because at this point in time by giving an NX, and saying you can make things up later on, and telling parents that they don't have to come to Zoom, but we would like them to come to Zoom, it's almost like our time is not being respected, in that I'm working so many more hours and like, for example, our time not being respected-- Sorry, I'm a little nervous, our time not being respected.

We were given a lengthy professional development on trauma for children, to understand their trauma, and we weren't given any time to do it. It's like do it on your own time. Again, which I understand is something we should do. A lot of the policy seems to be falling on us to try to figure it out. A lot of it when it's not working, it's hurting us and the students. Thank you.

Mayor Bill: Well, Jake, thank you. That's powerful and very honest. First, I think, in your question, you're exhibiting something that I really want people to pause and feel, which is just how extraordinarily devoted educators are. It's incredibly tough what we ask you to do all the time, let alone what you're dealing with now. I'm feeling just how tough your job is and I'm sad about that. I would say a couple things. One, we could have said everyone passes, I don't think that would have been helpful. I think there has to be some sense of there's still consequences and accountability. I think that helps kids stay focused. I think parents want that. We've tried to do that.

I do think we've got to tighten up the notion that kids should be attending at the time they should be attending, even though we do give some flexibility. We know there's situations like kids who have to help with the rest of their family and things that require some more flexibility because parents aren't home. We try to leave that flexibility, we got to tighten up the sense a kid should attend whenever humanly possible at the assigned time. Your point I really take to heart, how do we keep improving our reality?

Then the other thing I think is really important to say to you is that the plan that the chancellor and I discussed last week, the 2021 student achievement plan, which explicitly acknowledges there's going to be a COVID achievement gap and we have to go right at it. We're going be talking more in the coming weeks about the components of that and the pieces that we can start this year, particularly, using digital education to help kids recover ground, especially, when we're back in person. Look with the vaccine now starting to be distributed, this school year there's a lot to play out in a good way.

The majority of the school year is ahead, you're a high school teacher, there's going to be a day when high school comes back in person, and that's going to help-- We don't know when yet, but that's going to help you to support your kids in a much better way. Then in September, everyone's coming back, and we have a chance to really start to make up the lost ground, particularly, we put additional supports in place, mental health support, digital education supports, et cetera.

I don't have a perfect answer for you except to say, please hang on, we need teachers like you. We need teachers who are that devoted. This situation will change in January and February, there's no question in my mind. We will turn around the current spread and the vaccine is going to play a profound role. We'll go into the spring in a different situation that will feel better. September will be night and day compared to what we're dealing with now, so please hang on.

I'm going to follow-up with the chancellor. Please leave your information in WNYC because I'd like the chancellor or someone in his team to talk to you about the things we can do to provide more support for teachers like you. Thank you very much.

Brian: Jake, hang on. We'll take your contacts off here. Mr. Mayor, as a follow-up to that in our last minute. Just as a follow-up to your announcement this morning that you will pause the use of academic admission screens for middle schools. We got a press release from a coalition of advocacy groups that says we welcome, what they call the initial step, and yet says, "We know that the simple removal of screens does not ensure integration, and additional action is immediately called for."

The first thing on their list is created mission priorities for low-income students, English language learners, and students in temporary housing that are reflective of our city's demographics. Brief comment on that, and then we're out of time.

Mayor Bill: I hear their concern. I think we're going to do step by step here. There are big changes happening today and more changes coming. We want to really work with parents, work with educators, and communities to help people see the virtues of these changes. I'd say to folks, work with us step by step as we start to make this a very, very different approach for the future in New York City.

Brian: Mr. Mayor, thanks as always. Next Friday is Christmas, the Friday after that is New Years', so we'll talk again in three weeks. Have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. As you were saying to the caller, may 2021 be a very different year for the city of New York and for the world.

Mayor Bill: To you, Brian, and all your listeners, Happy Holidays. Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa, Happy New Year. I look forward. When we meet again 2021, it will not be 2020 and that will be a great thing unto itself. [laughs]

Brian: At least we could say that. Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Talk to you then.

Mayor Bill: Thank you. Take care.

Brian: Bye.

 

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