Ask The Mayor: Vaccine Mandates For Schools, and Indoor Dining

Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. Time now for our weekly Ask the Mayor call-in. My questions and yours for Mayor Bill de Blasio at 646-435-7280. You can also tweet a question. Just use the hashtag, #askthemayor. We'll watch that Twitter feed go by. Good morning, Mr. Mayor. Welcome back to WNYC.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Good morning, Brian. Brian, I have breaking news I'd like to break right here on WNYC. Two major updates. The first, we can now say for the last two weeks in a row, we have had more than 100,000 folks come in to be vaccinated for the first time in New York City. Two weeks running 100,000 plus each week first dose. That's a really good sign about the various efforts to get people to get vaccinated for the first time. Also of those in the month of August, 59% of those doses were Black and Latino New Yorkers. Really good news in terms of fighting disparity.

Here's the other breaking news. This is a new mandate we're going to put in place related to school sports. We're talking about the bigger school situation going forward but for school sports, for high-risk sports, that will include, and this is for public schools specifically, PSAL sports, football, volleyball, basketball, wrestling, lacrosse, and rugby and because it is indoors only and the kinds of locations bowling as well. We will have a vaccine mandate for all athletes, for all coaches, and athletic directors. All the adult personnel. First dose must be acquired by the first day of competitive play.

Any athlete, any coach has to have gotten their first dose of the vaccine by the first day of play or the first time that they practice with a team. This is really important. For anyone who is an athlete or intends to be an athlete or be involved, you can go to a vaccine.schools.nyc for more information. We want to make sure our athletes are safe given particularly the nature of these sports. We're putting that mandate in place.

Brian Lehrer: I didn't know we had varsity bowling in New York City public schools. Definitely didn't have it.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: It's a world of wonders, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Definitely didn't have it when I was in high school. Might have been the only sport I would have qualified for. The vaccination requirement that you just laid out for coaches though, are you considering applying it to all teachers and removing the negative COVID test option for teachers in particular as some parents are calling for because kids are so vulnerable?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Yes. We're actively looking right now at different actions we could take in terms of the schools. Right now, as you know, it is vaccine or test. We're looking at additional options right now. We're talking to the stakeholders about it. There's a lot of energy out there for a larger mandate and that's something we're considering quickly.

Brian Lehrer: Question about schools here, I think, from Tazine in South Brooklyn. Tazine, you are on WNYC with the Mayor. Thank you for calling in.

Tazine: No, thank you. Hey, Mayor. Calling from the land of the occupied [unintelligible 00:03:34] people in Brooklyn South from a school district where every zip is exhibiting high community spread, lower vaccination rates, seven-day case average of 100 plus where most of the schools are over-utilized Title I schools. A case of a school spread has been documented and a majority of the students are below the age of vaccination. What is the rationale of the negligence behind not instating a remote option despite thousands of parents' demand across the city and specifically in my district?

I just want to preempt the part of your answer where you say that schools are safe by reminding you that the schools haven't been seeing the capacity of students returning like the way they expected to and using mass transit, inadequate classroom penetrations, and without the mask mandate and, of course, dubious quarantining and testing protocols. Would you explain to me what I should tell my parents who are asking and begging for a remote option?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Thank you for the question, Tazin. Even though I respect, obviously if you want to preempt that's your right but I don't agree with the way you preempted because it wasn't accurate. The fact is we've seen really consistently, including in summarizing which is happening right now, we have seen real consistent results. We are not seeing the spread that people are worried about. I don't blame anyone for worrying and we need to be constantly vigilant. In fact, we have a mass mandate. That's one of the areas I respectfully want a different with you on.

We have had a mass mandate all year last year. We have it now in summarizing, we will have it in the new school year. It has been a key part of what worked. We also have just a massive level of vaccination, which is the big difference-maker. 5.2 million New Yorkers who have had at least one dose, high numbers in the school system among staff and growing. 300,000 12 to 17-year-olds gotten at least one dose already. That number is growing rapidly as school is coming on.

We have a different reality than so much of the rest of the country because we have a high level of vaccination and we're using all the other health and safety measures simultaneously, the ventilation, the masking. Everything simultaneously. Ultimately what our doctors say, and I'm going to listen to them, is it's really been damaging for so many kids to be away from a school setting in some cases, a year and a half. We cannot continue that, we need our kids back in school.

Brian Lehrer: A lot of parents are frustrated by what looks like a lack of specific information that reminds them of their frustrations with that last year. Since you're not planning a remote option or any hybrid teaching, what happens when certain kids or classes have to quarantine after an outbreak? Do you have a plan for that?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Yes. It's a really fair point. Brian, let me just say, I was a public school parent the whole way through both my kids. I understand parents are concerned about the kids' safety first and foremost. That's the number one thing you feel as a parent. We have given a lot of information, but we have to do it better. That's a blunt reality. Let's go over what we have said. It's everyone back in school, we're following the CDC and the state education guidance around distancing. We'll have a lot of ventilation in place. We're actually adding extra ventilation in a number of classrooms. Everyone will be masked adults and students alike.

On the quarantine dynamic, quarantine dynamic has changed because of the high level of vaccination now. If you are vaccinated and you're an adult or a student, if you're vaccinated and if there are cases either in your classroom or in the school as a whole, that cause action. If you are vaccinated and not symptomatic, you stay in school. School keeps going. If you're vaccinated and symptomatic, you go and get tested and then follow through depending on the test results. If you're un-vaccinated, you're quarantined. We're going to lay all this out starting next week in very specific details, how to FAQ kind of thing, show people exactly how it works.

The thing I want to emphasize is we're going to see a lot of kids stay in school who last year might have to go home and quarantine because we have a different reality now with a high level of vaccination. We're going to have programming which will delineate what that's going to look like for the time when kids are in quarantine. We're not going to have a remote option writ large, but we will have programming for kids for those days when those who have to quarantine are in quarantine.

Brian Lehrer: What will that look like for the kids who are quarantining and what will that demand of their teachers?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: That's what we'll be delineating starting next week. We'll go and lay everything out in the lead-up to school. I'm not going to preempt now. We're going to make it very clear so parents and kids have an understanding. I want to emphasize, I think the difference we feel very good about the impact of all these health and safety measures. One of the things our medical leadership that's really studied this carefully and looked at what's happening around the world they're saying is if kids are not in school, then many, many cases they had a greater exposure to COVID.

The school environment like a medical environment is so highly regulated and there's so many health and safety measures in place that's actually a much safer place than for many kids where they would be otherwise. Again, you're not going to see the disruptions we saw last year. We've changed the entire approach because, unlike last year, we now have really striking levels of vaccination. Remember, 75% of adults in New York City, 75% have gotten at least one dose. We didn't have anything like that last year so it's a very different reality. It's our job to lay that out clearly starting next week and in all the weeks leading up to school.

Brian Lehrer: Of course, 100% of kids under 12 are un-vaccinated.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: For now. I don't mean to interrupt but I want to emphasize, Brian. We think that's going to change in the next few months. We think the 5 to 11-year-olds are going to be eligible. Depending on who you listen to, it could be as early as November. I think what you're going to see then is a lot of parents just immediately coming and getting those vaccinations. Brian Lehrer: You mentioned the filtration in classrooms. Here's a tweet about that. It says, ask the Mayor about the justification of the Intellipure filters he spent $40 million on and his relationship with the CEO, Paul Scialla, if that's how you say his name. I will add that I saw the article on the education news site Chalkbeat about how these are not HEPA filters, which are generally considered the industry standard. They cited experts that rated this filter, maybe the ninth-best on the market, and that they're more expensive than ones that were rated higher. Can you defend the choice of these filters?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: I can tell you, first of all, I am not a filter expert. If you will say the name of the person they're saying I know, what's that name again?

Brian Lehrer: Is it Paul Scialla?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: You tell me the spelling?

Brian Lehrer: S-C-I-A-L-L-A.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: I don't know that name. Paul Scialla.

Brian Lehrer: You don't know the CEO of the company--?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: If you're spelling it right, I don't know someone with that name. I certainly don't remember. Maybe I've met him but I don't know who it is.

Brian Lehrer: Do you know the CEO of Intellipure, the company that--?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: I don't know what Intellipure is [chuckles] except you're telling me now. I don't do purchasing of filters. Respectfully, I really don't know what this is about. What we will do is our team will happily do the research of what the DoE thinks of those filters and the people who did make those choices in procurement, why they made them, what they think of them, how they've been working. Let's also go to the outcome. The outcome was the New York City public schools were extraordinarily safe last year. By the end of the school year, the percentage I think on the last day of school, 0.01 was the positivity level in the schools.

We got to be clear that what the DoE folks did and give them credit. The facilities folks, the custodians, everyone really deserves a shout-out. They did an amazing job on ventilation, on cleaning. All the adults did a great job on making sure kids wore masks and the outcomes were stunning. That's part of what gives me real faith about going forward. On this one, I really don't know what they are talking about but our team will certainly follow up with you.

Brian Lehrer: One more school’s thing. Gothamist reports on concerns over a two-tier system of social distancing. Many schools are so overcrowded they have three feet of distancing, which is the CDC recommendation in a mandatory 100% in-person setting. Therefore, the safety standards are going to vary from school to school depending on levels of overcrowding. Do you have a non-hybrid actually safe solution for that?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Again, Brian, for you and for any parent who's concerned, we need tough questions and it's right to do but I also really want people to look at the level of focus, the way our medical leadership determined what was safe in our schools, the amount of expenditure. No expenditure was held back. Anything and everything I did was necessary to protect our kids and adults and we're doing it all again. In fact, we're adding features and we're following the CDC guidance, and the State Education Department guidance. In fact, because we're reconfiguring classrooms using other spaces, we feel very good that we can follow that guidance effectively.

Remember, distance is one of a number of factors if you have the cleaning, the ventilation, the mask-wearing, the distance, and a high level of vaccination for adults and then a high level of vaccination, which we're at right now. We're way ahead of the national average in terms of youth vaccination. Our numbers we talked about this week, the 300,000 kids 12- to 17-year-olds who have been vaccinated. We're already way ahead of the national average. I know there's going to be a surge of vaccination. We're doing a huge campaign to get kids vaccinated.

You have to add together all those things, that's the gold standard we talked about in the past, but now adding to it a lot more vaccination and even more ventilation capacity. We feel really confident, our doctors feel confident that we can create a safe environment. Again, bluntly a safer environment than a lot of kids would experience in their own neighborhoods where there aren't all those controls and supports in place.

Brian Lehrer: Dan on the Lower East Side, you're on WNYC with Mayor de Blasio. Hi, Dan.

Dan: Good morning. Thank you, Brian. I'm a long-time listener, first-time caller. Mr. Mayor, good morning. I very much appreciate that you make yourself available for this. There were massive demonstrations back in June 2020 after George Floyd was killed in Minneapolis. Across the nation, police mobilized to deal with all kinds of demonstrations. Here in New York City, the police set up steel barricades on the corners wherever there are police stations. Every time there's even a hint of protest those barricades come up so that pedestrians can't cross, cars can't cross, cars can't park and so on.

Even though they're steel bike barricades and they look temporary, they're very much permanent. From my point of view, they are embodying a militarization and takeover of the public space, is dividing our neighborhoods. Every time I hear news about police wanting to engage with community, I don't get it because this is physically dividing and separating ourselves from the police. Is this something that can be changed?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Dan, thank you for the question. It's a really, really helpful question because I really feel I get what you're saying that this creates an atmosphere and it's better to have less. There may be specific situations where the protests come back to a particular precinct. Consistently, I have seen some of those. Other places really we haven't. What I'll do is I'll follow up with our team here at city hall and with the NYPD about where we can just reduce that.

I agree with you the ideal should be to keep reducing. I think there are some places where it won't make sense if they are a place where there's continued protest. I do hear your point. Let me see if we can identify. If you give your information to WYNC about the specific locations that you're concerned about, that'd be helpful. I'll have Roberto Perez, who is our commissioner for community affairs, follow up with you as well.

Brian Lehrer: Dan, if you want to do that, hang on. We'll get your information off the air. I have an NYPD question, which is about the vaccination rate. Still under 50% as it's being reported. Gothamist has a story called NYPD Orders Unvaccinated Cops to Wear Masks. History Suggests They May Decline. The angle is largely that many supervisors at the precinct level are refusing to wear masks themselves setting an example for the officers who work under them to not have to follow that directive. What kind of inspection, enforcement, or discipline are you planning for cops and supervisors who basically thumb their noses at COVID safety practices?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: It's a real issue and it was a real issue particularly in the beginning of this crisis with COVID. I think it's much better now bluntly. I'm never surprised if Gothamist takes a jaded view but I will say that I've seen just being all over the city definitely improved situation. Still, I want to see every single person who is unvaccinated wearing a mask. The directive that went out to officers was really clear. There will be discipline if folks don't do it, there will be discipline for superiors if they don't do it. I think we have to do a better job of showing that to the public.

Brian Lehrer: Is that a jaded view or does history simply suggest that they may decline to follow that directive, and especially if 50% or less are still unvaccinated?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: I think it is a jaded view because one, we've seen a very profound change in the habits. I've seen it with my own eyes. I spend time going all over the city. I've seen it clearly with PD officers a different reality than it used to be. I also think we should be careful. I often find that the public discourse when it comes to policing and police really misses the diversity of our police force. There's, I think, to a lot of people a stereotype of exactly who police officers are. I just want to remind everyone, a majority people of color are police force, this is a police force with almost as many New York City residents in terms of our uniformed officers as folks who live outside New York City.

A wide range of political-ideological views. It's not one thing. We need to get those vaccination levels up for sure but the reason that some people are not vaccinated, for some it may be philosophical, for some it may be what we're seeing, for example, still in a number of communities of color, hesitancy about medical establishment, and the history of structural racism. There's a lot of different things going on. What we know is vaccinations continue to rise and the mandate that will be affecting all city agencies soon we're seeing it agency by agency as its being phased in. We're seeing it having a real impact so I expect those numbers keep going up.

Brian Lehrer: As you were giving that answer, one of my colleagues here at the station, not from Gothamist by the way, sent me a note that said the police who were searching bags at Canal Street on Wednesday as they went through at the subway station were not wearing masks. What would you do in that situation?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: That needs to be fixed. That's real.

Brian Lehrer: Does it contradict the message you were just giving?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: No. Brian, respectfully, we're talking about 35,000 officers. I would argue again that many are doing the right thing, and some are not and we have to fix it. We have to deal with the ones who are not. What I find interesting is some officers at Canal Street we're doing the right thing. Does that mean all 35,000 are doing the wrong thing? No. Let's deal with those.

First of all, I would love it if your folks would share those exact details so we can go have the supervisors deal with those officers. To me, it's really clear, our officers who are unvaccinated need to wear masks. Our officers who are vaccinated have more freedom because they're vaccinated. I want to see follow through and I want to see clear discipline and that's what we'll be doing.

Brian Lehrer: Bob in Bed-Stuy, you're on WNYC with the Mayor. Hi, Bob.

Bob: Hi, thank you so much for taking my call, Mr. Mayor. It is a great honor to speak with you. Thank you, again, for being on the airwaves with all of New York.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Thank you very much, Bob. I appreciate that.

Bob: Congratulations on an amazing run as mayor, all your achievements. Two points. First is actually an invitation, I would like to invite you to come down to Bed-Stuy this Saturday from 11 to midnight to work the door with me at my bar and turn away unvaccinated customers who have been supporting me through every phase of the COVID pandemic, who have supported my business for six years, who are my friends and neighbors. I would like you to explain to them your policy, and why they can no longer patronize my establishment.

Secondly, I think that this policy regarding restaurants and the Key to New York is really misguided because there's no test-out option for my customers, but you have it for your own employees in the city. There's also no exemption for religious objections to the vaccine, which I respect and I would hope that you will respect as well. First of all, I'll stay on the line. I hope you'll join me 11:00 PM in Bed-Stuy, me and you going to work the door. It's going to be a lot of fun. Secondly, how is there no exemptions possible, and do expect me to fire my unvaccinated staff and turn away my friends and peers?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Bob, I know your question is heartfelt, and I appreciate it. What we want people to do over the next weeks is get used to this approach. I think what you're going to find, first of all, this is an approach that-- I don't know if you have outdoor but I just want to make sure to all the other listeners that this is for indoor. If you have outdoor seating, anyone can go the outdoor seating. For the indoor, we believe this is absolutely essential. It's not the same as public service. We really, really appreciate how important restaurants, bars, movie theaters, indoor entertainment, fitness, all these are really important parts of our city. They're not the same thing as what people do in public service.

The fact is, we've seen around the world and we're already seeing here, that this kind of mandate makes an impact. It gets more people vaccinated. Bob, I'm sure you might have some individuals who right now are not comfortable but I'd like to put this in perspective. There's 5.2 million New Yorkers right now who could walk right into your bar on Saturday. 5.2 million who qualify this minute, more are going to qualify in the course of the day, and then everyone from the suburbs or even a higher level of vaccination in the suburbs and the tourists are a higher level of vaccination for everything we've seen. You are right that there are going to be some people--

Brian Lehrer: They're not going to Bob's neighborhood bar in Bed-Stuy, right?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: I don't know who's going to Bob's neighborhood but I hope a lot of people are. Let me just finish real quick.

Bob: Mr. Mayor, you realize by answering the last question, you said that your vaccinated officers have more freedom. That's to quote you from the last question. You said they have more freedom. You're talking about restricting people's freedom. If you want to do it, put a cop on every corner checking vaccine cards, and see how Brooklyn takes it. See how the people of New York City take it if you want to restrict their freedoms. Don't put it onto my business to do it. It's coercive. I don't operate a coercive business. I operate a place that's safe, positive, and a place where people come together. I do it safely with every rule until now but this is a step too far.

Brian Lehrer: Or it's not safe. Mr. Mayor, go ahead.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Bob, again, I appreciate you. I can tell you're speaking from the heart and you're doing something for your neighborhood with your business, which I appreciate, but you do card people when they buy liquor. Every business has some version or another of how they regulate their workplace and we want everyone to be safe and we're in a global pandemic. I appreciate your righteousness. Let me give you some righteousness back. We're in a global pandemic. What you do is something important for the city but it's something people do to enjoy themselves. We want those who want to enjoy themselves to be vaccinated.

We need more people to be vaccinated. That is the bottom line for defeating COVID and defeating the Delta variant. This is mission-critical. We know, we've seen This happened around the world, that these mandates explicitly cause a much greater number of people to get vaccinated. We did not say people needed two shots and wait two weeks. We said even if you've gotten your first shot that day you can walk in to encourage people to feel that this was the key to more freedom and more opportunity.

This is one of the ways we defeat COVID. I will listen to anyone who wants to tell me the problem, and I'm going to work with anyone but I don't have a single bit of hesitation on this one. We have to defeat the Delta variant. We don't defeat the Delta variant, then a lot of businesses will be shut down by restrictions which Bob I think you would like even less. Trust me, this is the way we're going to turn the corner here.

Brian Lehrer: Bob, thank you for your call. We've got a few minutes left. I want to ask you about the so-called homecoming week concerts that have been going on around the city with the big one of course coming tomorrow in Central Park, Bruce Springsteen, LL Cool J, Santana, Barry Manilow for some reason, so many others.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: [laughs]It's a city for everyone. Come on, Brian. Everyone. We've got to represent all tastes.

Brian Lehrer: The audience members have to be vaxxed with at least one dose, I understand. Do the vaccination requirements apply to the performers and the crew?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: I will get the exact standards. A lot of people obviously are just coming in for this performance and leaving so it's a very temporary reality. For the New Yorkers involved, obviously, for the folks who are coming, it's a very clear rule. It's vaccination only. Again, Brian, that's been part of the whole point to say to people, "You can do amazing things if you're vaccinated." That's what Broadway is saying. If you want to go to Broadway, you have to be vaccinated. We have a great concert coming up to the Apollo, you have to be vaccinated. This is the standard that is going to be the city standard going forward for so many things and that's what's going to motivate people.

Brian Lehrer: How about the choice of artists for this? I know there are other concerts around the city this week but one of our folks wrote that it's an affront to the city's young people who sacrifice prime years of their lives for the common good only to be invited to a show that features more aging soft rock luminaries and cable news personalities than actual contemporary artists, was the quote.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Look, first of all, it's one of the most amazing lineups I think anyone's ever seen. There's the performers from all different generations, all different genres who all love New York City and want to help us come back. We did two things here this week. For the concerts in Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, and the Bronx, we had the Universal Hip Hop Museum curate those concerts. They did a focus on the history of hip hop and some of the great luminaries. Particularly notable, I was thrilled to be with the Wu-Tang Clan in Staten Island, which was an amazing experience. That was curated by them.

This concert in Saturday, tomorrow in Central Park was curated by Clive Davis who's a legendary figure in the music industry who really put out the call. He's a native of Brooklyn, he loves the city. This was his idea along with Danny Meyer. Danny Meyer had the idea of a homecoming week to really tell people New York City was back, to tell the whole world. Clive Davis said he would personally make this concert work and bring together the talent.

CNN is going to broadcast this worldwide. It's going to be a huge, huge thing. It's going to help tell people that New York City is opening and coming back and strong. We need that for a lot of reasons. I would just say these are some of the greatest artists of all time. I think a lot of folks, certainly I know the young people in my life honor a lot of the artists in this lineup. I think it's going to be something extraordinary.

Brian Lehrer: Can people just show up just to stop them? If that's not the policy, how do they gain admission?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Over the last weeks, we've made day after day batches of tickets available, the vast majority are free and they've all been, I assure you, snapped up.

Brian Lehrer: This is sold-out now?

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Yes, Central Park is sold out. I don't know the Queen's concert tonight which has really amazing hip-hop lineup and has George Clinton and his band which is going to be amazing. I don't know if that's entirely sold out but I do know Central Park is. Look, I think it's going to be one of those signature moments that just tells everyone we are back and we're going to fight through this no matter what.

Brian Lehrer: Final thing, are there preparations in the event of heavy rains from being on the outskirts of Hurricane Henri and also for the Five Boro Bike Tour on Sunday in that respect.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: Great question. Henri, such an elegant name has totally bad timing. [chuckles] What we're actually seeing so far is it appears to not be hitting us too directly. The last report I got, we think the concert will go consistently, we think we can get the whole thing in. I think the bike tour is gonna have a bigger challenge potentially. We are working on those plans right now.

I've been handed a note. Queens has also sold out. I'm sorry I might have raised some expectation if anyone was interested but Queens is sold out too tonight. We feel good about the weather in terms of the concert Saturday, bigger question for the bike tour Sunday. Our emergency management team will be speaking to that after we get some more weather reports today. They'll be putting out updates on how we're going to navigate Sunday.

Brian: Good luck this weekend. I have a front-row seat on my couch via CNN.

Mayor Bill de Blasio: [laughs].

Brian Lehrer: Thanks as always, Mr. Mayor. Talk to you next week.

Mayor de Blasio: Thank you, Brian. Take care.

 

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