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Ranked-Choice Voting For The Best Big Apple Books

Lynn Lobash, associate director of reader services at the New York Public Library, and Brigid Bergin, City Hall and politics reporter at WNYC, discuss NYPL and Gothamist's ranked-choice voting run-through featuring books about the city.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We'll end the show today with a session of ranked-choice voting practice for our New York listeners. Team, are you ready to practice ranked-choice voting, or if you're completely new to this, you can think of it as a little remote learning session. That's what we do here anyway. Remote learning, 10:00 AM to noon. What we've got is a ranked-choice voting lesson or practice session that Gothamist and the New York Public Library cooked up.

We're going to invite you to come out and play and call in to take part in ranked-choice voting practice, or think of it as test prep for the June primary. Here's how and with a little disclaimer first that the full ranked-choice voting exercise that Gothamist and the Library developed doesn't completely translate to live radio. We'll do a slimmed-down version of it, but we think it'll still help you get the idea.

Let me bring on our guests, and then we'll lay it out. WNYC's senior reporter for New York City politics and policy Brigid Bergin. Hi, Brigid.

Brigid Bergin: Good morning, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Lynn Lobash manager of Readers Services for the New York Public Library. Lynn, thanks for teaming up with this for this. Welcome back to WNYC.

Lynn Lobash: Thanks, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Brigid, by way of background for our listeners, Gothamist did one of these before using New York movies. Want to remind us of that project and tell us how it turned out?

Brigid Bergin: Absolutely, Brian. We really like to practice these things. Back in February we offered our Gothamist readers a choice of six fictional mayors. Now, my colleagues Jen Carlson and Jake Dobkin came up with our contenders. It took six rounds to tally the votes, but the winner scoring nearly 60% of the vote after our ranked choice voting tallies was Mayor Lenny from Ghostbusters.

I tweeted the story out earlier. If folks want to go back and check out all those contenders in their platforms, you can do that. This was a really great experiment, because not only could our readers go through the process of thinking through how do you rank your candidates, but when Gothamist revealed the results, we also provided this really great visualization. You can see how votes are redistributed when candidates are eliminated, which I know we're going to talk a little bit more about, but I really encourage folks, go check that out because you can see how after you cast your ranked vote, what it looks like to get to a final result.

Brian Lehrer: The new ranked-choice voting this time involves books about New York City. Listeners, I'm going to read you the full list of 13 books now. Are you ready for this? All you need to do is call in with your favorite New York City book from the list and we'll take it from there and lead you through it. When you hear the book you want to pick as your favorite, get ready to call 646-435-7280. 646-435-7280. Here we go.

Here are the books, The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay by Michael Chabon, Another Brooklyn by Jacqueline Woodson, Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe, Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger, that's a New York book. The House of Mirth by Edith Wharton, Jazz by Toni Morrison, Native speaker by Chang-Rae Lee, Open City by Teju Cole, The Price of Salt by Patricia Highsmith, Just kids by Patti Smith, A Little Life by Hanya Yanagihara, The Mambo Kings Play Songs of Love by Oscar Hijuelos, Motherless Brooklyn by Jonathan Lethem.

13 books right there. Should I read them again? Because that went by pretty quickly. Listeners, of course it doesn't really matter which book you pick, but which one is your favorite New York book from that list? I'll do it again. As you can tell, there are so many books, many pages in my notes here.

It's The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay by Michael Chabon, Another Brooklyn by Jacqueline Woodson. Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe, Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger, The House of Mirth by Edith Wharton, Jazz by Toni Morrison, Native Speaker by Chang-Rae Lee, Open City by Teju Cole, The Price of Salt by Patricia Highsmith, Just kids by Patti Smith,the book A Little Life by Hanya Yanagihara, The Mambo Kings Play Songs of Love by Oscar Hijuelos, and Motherless Brooklyn by Jonathan Lethem.

The calls are coming in. Lynn Lobash from the Library, there are so many great New York books. How did you even whittle it down to 13?

Lynn Lobash: I know. I wanted to say before you start taking the calls, I'm sorry to say there are no right in-votes. We apologize if your favorite book [unintelligible 00:05:09] the list, it's a very short list. There are so many great New York City books. I guess, just like any great election, there was a lot of debates among my colleagues, and we managed to whittle it down. We had all sorts of criteria. We obviously wanted the list to be diverse, to reflect the city. Yes. We just went from a big list and just started cutting.

There were a lot of really close calls. A Tree Grows in Brooklyn was a hard one to get rid of.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, it didn't [unintelligible 00:05:41] list.

Lynn Lobash: No, it's been on so many lists. Age Of Innocence was a favorite, Invisible Man. People really loved The Goldfinch. I'm a big fan of this book called City on Fire. That one also didn't make it, so I didn't get one of my favorites on there.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners-- Go ahead, Lynn.

Lynn Lobash: I was just going to say, anybody who's not going to get a call in, you can still have your vote. You can do that either at nypl.org/bookballot or at gothamist.com/bookballot. The ballot is open from May 5th yesterday through May 11th next Tuesday. Then we will be crowning the winner on May 12th.

Brian Lehrer: Now, I have no idea how this is really going to turn out, but let's start going through some callers and see who wins the first round of the ranked-choice vote. We're going to go to Jeffrey in Hamilton Heights. Hi, Jeffrey, which book do you want to choose?

Jeffrey: Hello, I called in to choose Kavalier and Clay, which is one of my favorite books in the world.

Brian Lehrer: Now, snap decision. If you had to choose a second choice, aha, a second choice from that list, can you name one, any one from the list that comes to mind?

Jeffrey: I suppose A Little Life.

Brian Lehrer: A Little Life, a second choice. Thank you very much. Let's go to David. Jeffrey, hang on there. Let's go to David in Brooklyn. David, what you got?

David: I think the Patti Smith is going to win, but I'm going to take Catcher in the Rye.

Brian Lehrer: [laughs] You're going to take Catcher in the Rye, and if you had to-

David: It brings me back to junior high school, which is a long time ago.

Brian Lehrer: -if you had to choose a second place book for yourself, which might that be from that list, from your memory?

David: I guess Motherless Brooklyn, although this is all fiction books, I would have taken The Building of the Brooklyn Bridge.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. We'll do the nonfiction ranked-choice voting practice next week maybe. Andre in Manhattan. Hi, Andre. What's your number one book on that list?

Andre: It's that you called Open City.

Brian Lehrer: How about a second choice, if you had to make a second choice?

Andre: That, I gave it to the-

Brian Lehrer: Screener.

Andre: -lady, anyway. It was Just Kids by Patti Smith.

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. Just Kids gets a number two vote after it got a prediction that it would win from the previous caller who didn't vote for it. Let's see. Edison in Chelsea. Hi, Edison, you're on WNYC. Which book from the list would you vote for as the best New York City book? Edison, we have you?

Edison: Hello?

Brian Lehrer: Hi there.

Edison: Oh, yes, cool. Thanks for taking my call. I'm a long listener. My first choice, Brian, is Bonfire of the Vanities. That was a wonderful book, and the reason I say that is because I read the book in 1990 and I had just arrived from Brazil. I learned so much about New York State, about the D train, about the Bronx, about Fifth Avenue, because, as I remember, the guy lived in Fifth Avenue. He lived in a penthouse and he got caught up in an accident in the Bronx. I really, really loved the book, but I hate the movie [unintelligible 00:09:28].

Brian Lehrer: Oh, you hated the movie, but I was going to say, you come here from Brazil, you read Bonfire of the Vanities of all books. Didn't it make you want to just go back to Brazil?

Edison: Not really, no. The book was thrilling. I really, really enjoyed the book, and taking the D train all the way to the Bronx was really, really cool. I learned a lot about New York City.

Brian Lehrer: That's great. Do you have a second-choice book from that list?

Edison: Yes, of course I do. The one of Salinger, the--

Brian Lehrer: Catcher in the Rye?

Edison: Catcher in the Rye. You know why? Because of his questioning, where do birds go during the winter from Central Park? That was a wonderful book, I really enjoyed reading that, too.

Brian Lehrer: That is so great. That is not the first thing that people would usually refer to from Catcher in the Rye. Edison is such a--

Lynn Lobash: I know. I was thinking his memory is so good.

Brian Lehrer: What a great reader. Paula in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC. What would your first choice book be? Paula, are you there? Do I have the right line for Paula in Brooklyn?

Paula: Oh, yes. Sorry.

Brian Lehrer: Hi. Go for it.

Paula: Can you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: Yes.

Paula: Toni Morrison. Jazz by Toni Morrison.

Brian Lehrer: How about second?

Paula: Because of all things Toni Morrison. My second choice is the Jacqueline Woodson.

Brian Lehrer: Very good. I love your reason. The Toni Morrison book because Toni Morrison. [chuckles]

Lynn Lobash: Exactly, I love that, too.

Paula: All things Toni Morrison.

Brian Lehrer: All things Toni Morrison. All right, thank you very much. We have time for one more. Daniel in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. What's your number one, and as you can hear, I'm also inviting callers to give a number two. Hi, Daniel.

Daniel: Hands down Catcher in the Rye is my number one choice. Catcher in the Rye is number one for me.

Brian Lehrer: Okay, and number two.

Daniel: Do you hear me?

Brian Lehrer: I can hear you. Can you hear me?

Daniel: Yes, I can hear you. I haven't read the other ones, but I told the screener, Jazz sounds pretty interesting. If you guys posted it on your website, that'd be amazing, because I actually want to read these books.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, yes, such an amazing list. Of course, you can get it from the library site, too. It's on gothamist.com because they have the article on this. We have also just tweeted out during the segment from The Brain Lehrer Show Twitter feed, the list of 13. I know, Lynn Lobash from the Library, just looking at the list this morning, preparing for the segment, I'm like, "I just want to take a long vacation now and read or reread all 13 books."

Lynn Lobash: Lucky for you, you can find them at the Library. We have them in e-book version, simply e, our app, and you can also request the physical books and pick them up at any of the locations that are doing grab-and-go service. There's a list of those on the website if people are looking.

Brian Lehrer: All right, Brigid Bergin, now we get to the ranked-choice voting part of this. We got to take one, two, three, four, five, six calls. Catcher in the Rye came in first with two first-place votes. The other books that people mentioned only got one first-place vote each, but here's how it applies to the primary election in June. By Catcher in the Rye getting 2 first-place votes out of 6, it got 33% of the vote. 33% of the vote will not win you the election, you have to get over 50%. Brigid, what would happen next with these books?

Brigid Bergin: Oh, Brian, I knew you were going to do this, so I had to start furiously taking down everyone's votes. I'm going to pull it back and just say, broadly speaking, this is where we get into the elimination and redistribution part of ranked-choice voting. Right now, the way the city board of elections works, they want to get all the votes in before they start to do that. That means it won't be until at least a week after the election. I even put an asterisk on that when they start doing these tallies. That's a topic for a whole other segment.

Ultimately, the candidate or the book that comes in last place will be eliminated. The people who voted for that candidate/book will have their second-choice votes distributed among the remaining books/candidates. That process will continue until we get to a winner with more than 50% of the vote. In this particular case, it may take all 13 rounds to get there, but we encourage people to try this out. It's really great press practice. One of the things, I think, that's great about this practice ballot, which is online, obviously very different than how we will all vote, because we'll vote on paper, but once you choose your book, your candidate so to speak, then you can't choose it again.

That's a really important thing to know about ranked-choice voting, because even if you really, really love Jazz and Catcher in the Rye, you can't make them both your number one choice. One has to be number one and something else has to be number two, because if you try to do that, your ballot would get tossed out. Our practice ballot won't let you do that either. You have to make your choices. It's hard. You don't have to choose all 13, you don't have to choose all five when you go and vote in June, but you can't choose the same candidate or the same book more than once for the same rank.

Brian Lehrer: That's really important for people to know, because I can just imagine somebody doing it. "No, I only want Maya Wiley, or I only want Andrew Yang, or I only-

Brigid Bergin: Exactly.

Brian Lehrer: -want Scott Stringer," whoever it is, and then they'll write them in five times.

Brigid Bergin: You can't do that.

Brian Lehrer: That would disqualify the whole ballot?

Brigid Bergin: That's right. That's called an overvote.

Brian Lehrer: You can just vote for your one favorite candidate, and not even include second, third, fourth, fifth, right?

Brigid Bergin: Absolutely. You can just choose one, or maybe you only want to choose three, or maybe you only want to choose two. The most important thing is, don't choose someone that you don't want to win. Don't choose the book that you don't want to rank. If you include it on your ballot, then it can contribute to that book or that candidate getting closer to 50%. If there's someone you really don't want, then don't pick them, but you can't pick more than one person for the same rank.

Brian Lehrer: Lynn Lobash from the New York Public Library, we sort of did have a winner here because, as Brigid just explained it, if your candidate, in this case, your book came in last, then that book is eliminated and your second choice gets added to that second choice candidates total. One of the people voted for Bonfire of the Vanities first, and that came in tied for last with only one vote, but that person's second choice was Catcher in the Rye. When you add that to the other first-place votes the Catcher got, it gets to 50% of the 6 votes that we got. I guess it would need 50% plus 1, but that's the way it works. That vote got redistributed, that second-place vote because the first-place candidate got eliminated.

Hopefully, that's more clarifying than confusing, but this is really fun with the books. What you need to know, folks, is what Brigid just said. You can list one and only one if that's what you want, otherwise, you need to list different ones. You can only list two if that's what you choose, or just list three, just list four, you don't have to list five, but don't repeat anybody. Lynn Lobash from the Library, is there a winner or an in-progress? I don't know how many days ago this was launched, but is there an early leader in the voting for the books?

Lynn Lobash: No. I don't know, but I am actually getting a predict that Catcher in the Rye is going to get a win because it's so recognizable. It's hard to beat these classics because so many people would read them in high school. Just in terms of readership, I think Catcher in the Rye has a bit of an advantage.

Brigid Bergin: Brian, I can give a little insight information into the voting so far and confirm that Catcher in the Rye is indeed leading. However, I will also note that during the primary, we will not have this inside information before they do the tallies, so we don't want to give anybody impressions that you'll know results before we start to tally them come June.

Brian Lehrer: This also means that our little thoroughly unscientific sample of six calls did replicate the winner of the larger sample, which is incredible Catcher in the Rye. Lynn Lobash, the Associate Director of Readers Services at the New York Public Library, thank you so much for playing with us on this.

Lynn Lobash: Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Brigid Bergin, always awesome. Listeners, go to gothamist.com if you want to actually do this ranked-choice voting with books for ranked-choice voting practice. Remote learning 10:00 AM to noon ranked-choice voting test prep on the Brian Lehrer Show.

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