Bill Thompson's Take on the 2021 City Elections
As a former NYC comptroller and mayoral candidate, Bill Thompson, CUNY Board chair and partner at the investment firm Siebert Williams Shank & Co., weighs in on the role of the comptroller, and the state of the mayoral campaign.
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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC, we'll get a take on the New York Primary Races now from Bill Thompson who was the New York City Board of Education president in the late '90s, the New York City comptroller from 2002 to 2009, and many of you will remember he was the Democratic nominee for mayor against Michael Bloomberg in the controversial 2009 election, controversial because Bloomberg got City Council to suspend the term limits law that year, remember this and let Bloomberg run for a third term which he won that year but by less than five points despite spending roughly a gazillion dollars of his personal fortune on the campaign.
I think gazillion is the correct mathematical term there. In any case, he outspent Thompson 14-1. These days among other things Bill Thompson is chair of the Board of Trustees of CUNy and a lawyer in New York, and Bill, it's been a while, thanks for doing this, welcome back to WNYC.
Bill Thompson: Brian it's a pleasure. The only correction I will make I'm not a lawyer, so let me straighten that one out.
Brian Lehrer: Oh, sorry I thought I saw you associated with a law firm, I apologize.
Bill Thompson: No, that's an investment banking firm.
Brian Lehrer: An investment bank firm? Got you. Other than that, did I get the math right on how much Bloomberg spent to defeat you in 2009, was it a gazillion?
Bill Thompson: I thought it was three gazillion but then again it was a lot, it never seemed to end, it was kind of like bailing out the ocean. Yes, it felt like a gazillion dollars.
Brian Lehrer: Actually, it was reported at $102 million for people not literate in the base gazillion mathematical system, it translates to 102 million, 14 times what you as a mere mortal could spend. How much do you look back on that close race as being determined by money as opposed to Bloomberg simply being just popular enough?
Bill Thompson: Well, I think it was a combination of things. It was the money because I mean if you remember that year the election was in November, Mike Bloomberg went on the air with ads in April of that year and never came off. It was TV, it was radio. Then you mentioned the number, that wasn't even looking at the charitable donations that his foundation did that year which easily were in the hundreds of millions of dollars, so all of that together, it was a drum beat, it was hard to break through that.
There was a lot of self-reflection afterwards because if you remember there was almost no polling. It was because people took it for granted in spite of the fact that we had polling that continued to point out it was a close race. I think a lot of people realized after the fact that probably at least in that sense media did the people of the city of New York a disservice in not pushing them to come out to vote because if they would have because remember turnout was down because people thought it was over.
If people would have come out and voted, Mike Bloomberg would have lost that election. You don't live in the past, and you move on, you look to the future.
Brian Lehrer: Sure, but it's also a good context for understanding campaigns that are taking place today and maybe in the future. There's nothing approaching Bloomberg spending in this year's race, but some of the candidates backed by the deepest pockets like Sean Donovan and Ray Maguire haven't really caught on. How do you see the role of money in this year's race?
Bill Thompson: Different. I think that a lot of it is if you look at where the city is, the city's coming back from an economic shutdown from a pandemic that has cost thousands and thousands of lives, all of that together and people looking for the type of leadership to bring us back. Money just doesn't address that. I think also if you look at Mike Bloomberg and then just to draw a quick parallel, Mike was the two-term incumbent and had to spend that kind of money to win.
I don't know even today given social media and a number of other things, I don't know if he could have pulled it off now, even no matter how much he spent just because the people of New York City are looking for something different. They're looking for a different type of leader, they're looking for somebody to bring us back.
Brian Lehrer: Right. Although spending these days is so much on social media not just on conventional radio and television ads, so money can help somebody dominate that space too. Just for transparency here, you have not endorsed in the mayoral race last I saw. Is that's still true?
Bill Thompson: That is still true, I have not endorsed.
Brian Lehrer: I was looking at an article about endorsements from 2013 when de Blasio defeated you and others for the Democratic nomination that year, and the angle was that you, Bill Thompson, got all these high-profile endorsements from Black New York City political leaders like former Mayor Dinkins and congressman Charles Rangel, but de Blasio still won among Black voters by a lot. The point of the article was endorsements don't always mean that much anymore.
We're watching the endorsements roll in in this year's primary AOC for Maya Wiley this week made news, Working Families Party changing the endorsement two times made news, they backed you back then I believe. UFT staying with Stringer, John Lew for Yang even though he disagrees with him on important policies, and other endorsements that have made news. How important do you think endorsements are this year?
Bill Thompson: I think what an endorsement does is people stop for a second and take a look. Does it make up people's minds? It doesn't but it pushes a person to stop for a second particularly if they're supportive of the person who just did the endorsement and take a look and say, "Well, maybe I'll take a look." That's what it does, somebody doesn't follow that endorser blindly, it creates a bit of a pause, and then people go back to making their own decisions.
I think that if you go back and you look at the 13 elections, what influenced voters that time, it was the de Blasio ad with his son more than anything. I think that was a turning point in that election. Right now, you haven't seen exactly a turning point, so I think that endorsers help as far as creating that pause but people don't make up their minds based on who endorses who, so I would agree with you.
Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take your phone calls on the mayoral race and the comptroller's race which we'll get to in a minute with former comptroller Bill Thompson. 646-435-7280. 646-435-7280, or tweet a question @BrianLehrer. Before we get to comptroller, what about the fire Eric Adams is trying to put out this morning about having a residence in New Jersey where he might spend a lot of time in addition to his Brooklyn home?
Is there a political world in which that could matter more or less going forward in these last days of the campaign?
Bill Thompson: I don't think it really matters. I think that people are going to focus on what Eric's talking about on the campaign that he's running, on the job that he's done as a Borough president, and the job that he's done as a state senator. I think that's what people are going to focus on as opposed to does he have a friend in New Jersey where he occasionally spends time.
He's a New York City person, he's always been a New York City person, he's going to continue to be a New York City person. I think it's a minor distraction, I don't think it's going to shift in a huge way in any way that people think right now, minor distraction.
Brian Lehrer: You say would depend more on his record as Borough president and record as a state senator. Do you think those things rather than the positions that he's staking out on crime and policing which some people like, some people don't like but that's the press Eric Adams is getting?
Bill Thompson: I think though it is the job he's done and the platform and what he's running on and what he says now as a candidate, not where he lives, or not "Does he spend any time in New Jersey?" I think as I said people are focused on the campaign, what you're saying, and the direction that you want to take New York City, all of those things together. It's, "Let's look at the entire record and where you want to take the city."
People are concerned about crime right now, people are concerned about crime on the subways, crime in the streets, and an increase. Those who shrug their shoulders and say, "It doesn't matter," it does matter. You've been around long enough, so have I, and seen New York change a couple of times, and I don't think anybody wants to see it go back again. By the way, one quick thing, do you miss this year?
I remember in 2013 I thought you did as many forums, you and [unintelligible 00:09:28] Lewis probably did as many forums as I did as [unintelligible 00:09:33].
Brian Lehrer: Not quite but I get your point.
Bill Thompson: Do you miss that? I mean it was an interesting time, we all probably did over 100 forums and you probably did at least 15 of them.
Brian Lehrer: It did not approach 15, but I did a few. This year there were a lot of forums, I did not wind up doing any of them. I was a questioner in the official mayoral debate, the first debate, but as far as a lack of forums, weren't there like three forums a day on Zoom for the last six months?
Bill Thompson: [chuckles] But then again, nobody has to leave their office or their home to able to do those. That is a huge difference, as opposed to 2013, where you had to crisscross the city multiple times a day.
Brian Lehrer: Clearly, but I wonder if you think the Zoom forums, or the lack of in-person campaigning until recently, has made a difference in anybody's fortunes in this race.
Bill Thompson: I think people being able to see candidates, touch candidates, get a sense of that person, I think that all helps. Also, being on the streets as a candidate, you get a sense of momentum or the lack of momentum. I remember at the end of the 2009 election against Bloomberg, there were reporters who were with us who were like, "Wow, what was that?" I remember being at the Atlantic Antic in downtown Brooklyn and the crowd was really excited and revved and reporters who were there were like, "Whoa, how long has it been like this?"
We could tell it's been building. The lack of in-person campaigning, I think for candidates, you don't get that sense of how things are going. All there is right now is certain polling and a lot of the big pollsters aren't polling. Being in the street gives you a sense of that, and also lets people get a sense of who you are.
Brian Lehrer: All right. If you're just joining us, we're talking about New York City politics and the primary season but with a broad sweep of history with Bill Thompson, who was New York City Board of Education president in the '90s, comptroller in the O's for eight years, was the mayoral nominee of the Democratic Party in 2009, and is now the Board of Trustees chair for CUNY, in addition to working, and now I've got it right, being a partner at the investment firm of Siebert Williams, Shank, and Company.
We'll take phone calls for him in a minute at 646-435-7280. 646-435-7280, or tweet a question @BrianLehrer. You're the third former comptroller in three days that we're having on the show to help people prepare to vote in that important but much less covered primary. Let me dip into my set of comptroller-raised questions here. If you heard John Louis yesterday, and Elizabeth Holtzman Monday, then you know some of what's coming.
For New Yorkers who don't know much about the job, which would be most people, what does the comptroller do?
Bill Thompson: Well, the comptroller, you can look at it in a couple of ways. There are some who will say the Chief Financial Officer for the city of New York, the head fiscal person for the city of New York, I like to look at the job of comptroller as being the second highest citywide elected official. There are a number of things that the comptroller does as far as Chief Investment Advisor to the five pension funds in the state of New York which is about $250 billion these days, contracts, and registration of contracts, [unintelligible 00:13:24] the audit, and audit city entities.
I mentioned registration of contracts, legal settlements, we have to approve all legal settlements against the city of New York. A number of different things. You maintain the books of the city of New York. There are a lot of things that the job does, but at the same point, when I talk about it as the city's second-highest citywide elected official, it gives you a bully pulpit, and the opportunity to be able to use the powers of that office to be able to create focus on things that help the people in the city of New York.
That's what the job is in so many ways.
Brian Lehrer: Looking back on your time as comptroller, eight years while Bloomberg was mayor, how did you use the bully pulpit in ways that you think should be most remembered by history?
Bill Thompson: I think there's some things, and having nothing to do with Mike Bloomberg, I think the focus that I brought in creating opportunity for women and minority-owned firms to do business with the city of New York, particularly with the pension funds, and manage funds, and be able to do business on a financial level with the city of New York, I think that helped to change things in a lot of ways. I think just the shift. When I got there, it was a stocks and bonds portfolio.
It is now a well-rounded portfolio that serves the pensioners in much better ways. I think that using the power of the office to do not just audits, but to be able to use that financial power on policy issues was one of the things that I remember being incredibly proud of, at the urging of some people back in, I think it was 2008, we did a study and took a look at what would the financial benefits be to the city and state of New York if marriage equality would have happened.
I remember it was used as people made the argument, I guess it was in 2011, for the legislation for marriage equality. I was so proud that it helped in the conversation and discussion. It was something I'm incredibly proud of to this day. Looking at some of the housing that had been used by the Bloomberg administration for homeless individuals that was unsafe, and doing that audit.
Looking at the MTA back then, and raising concerns, and I think that was probably 2005 or 2004, about how they were hiding money. A lot of that. I remember doing that whole audit and taking a look and it forced them to stop doing that and to really have their books that were open and fiscally transparent. All of those things are things that I'm proud of as I look back, and that people could look and say, "It had an impact in a lot of ways."
Brian Lehrer: With all that in mind, maybe the most useful thing you can do for our listeners who are about to cast their ballots, is say, or let me put it a little different, who are about to watch or listen to the comptroller's debate that's coming tomorrow night, and this is a WNYC-sponsored debate, Bridge Bergen will be our questioner in the debate and so we'll have it live on the station tomorrow night at seven o'clock, what's the best question that somebody could ask candidates for comptroller that would most inform the voters about who they should choose for this office that does the block of things that you just described?
Bill Thompson: I think the question really is a two-faceted question. You want to make sure that a candidate understands what the office does and then what's the vision for using those powers to be able to do things for the people of the city. It's understanding the office first and then how would you use those powers to benefit the city and there may be some new and creative ways. That's the one thing that you'd love to hear.
You'd like to believe that each new comptroller builds on the past, takes what was good, takes a look at some of the things that didn't work quite as well, and forges a new direction. I think that's the biggest question that you want to hear. Do you understand the office, what are the powers of the office, and how would you use it to forge either continuation or a bit of a new direction also?
Brian Lehrer: Jimmy in Woodside, you're on WNYC with Bill Thompson. Hi, Jimmy.
Jimmy: Good morning, Brian, Mr. Thompson.
Bill Thompson: Good morning.
Jimmy: [unintelligible 00:18:17]. Who oversees this very powerful elected position? Who audits the auditor? You're working for an investment firm now, I would imagine that with the amount of cash that's under the watchful eye of the comptroller, that a powerful interest would be trying to influence the comptroller. What organization audits the auditors?
Brian Lehrer: Like who do we invest pension funds with and things like that.
Bill Thompson: I think they invest in pension funds. All that becomes public. When you look, the comptroller is the Chief Investment Advisor, but not sole trustee. There are five pension boards. At the very least, there have got to be over 50 trustees on all of those boards. I know they've done some streamlining under Scott Stringer that brings it before one entity, but then again, there are a lot of eyes. There's a lot of transparency in the decisions that are made by the pension board.
Who invests money? The comptroller doesn't get to make that decision on his own. The State comptroller may as a sole trustee, not the city comptroller. There are a number of people and lots of transparency and public votes on who manages money for the city.
Brian Lehrer: Aaron in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with Bill Thompson. Hi, Aaron.
Aaron: Yes, Mr. Thompson, I'd like to ask you if it'll be more beneficial for the citizen of the city to vote for a Republican in that election?
Brian Lehrer: Because?
You have a rationale that's interesting. You want to lay it out?
Aaron: Yes. Because [unintelligible 00:20:05] independence from the Democratic Party. He'll be able to be more clear of their policies.
Brian Lehrer: Right. Expanding that a little bit into a concept as I think you put it to our screener, which is really interesting Bill. Is it better for the people of, let's say not just New York, of anywhere to have a comptroller who's from the opposite party of the mayor because there'll be more inclined to be a fiscal watchdog?
Bill Thompson: Okay. I don't think it matters. I think that having a Democrat or having someone from one party as mayor and from the same party as comptroller, political parties in New York City, doesn't matter, really there's a certain tension anyway that is designed between the office of mayor and comptroller. If you're a mayor, no one likes someone looking over their shoulder, correcting them, pointing out flaws and problems.
There's always tension built-in. I didn't look at Mike Bloomberg as the Republican mayor necessarily, I looked at him as the mayor, and where there were problems, I pointed them out, when there weren't, I didn't look to the cheap shot him. I don't think it really matters having people from the same party as mayor and comptroller.
Brian Lehrer: In New York like you say there is plenty of competition. We are a one-party town but there's plenty of competition because people have their factions and people have their personal interests. I saw the staff this week that six of the last seven New York city comptrollers then ran for mayor, [chuckles] which besides the fact that nobody but [unintelligible 00:22:05] back in the 70s made it, then he presided as ironically, the former comptroller who should have been fiscally literate and then the mayor over the fiscal crisis.
It also means that there's incentive to not align yourself too much with the mayor who you're going to want to succeed, or maybe challenge and say, "Look, this guy didn't do well enough so I'm going to be better." That that is some stat about six of the last seven comptrollers running for mayor. I'm not sure who the one who didn't was, was it Holtzman? Do you know?
Bill Thompson: Yes. It was Liz. It was. It was Holtzman. Also, you'd have to look at how many of the former speakers or the speakers of the New York city council ran for mayor, how many public advocates or president of the city council ran for mayor. I think it's because of the visibility in the position. It's because of you wind up doing a lot of things on a city-wide basis. [unintelligible 00:23:12]-- [crosstalk]
Brian Lehrer: There's nothing unusual about people in the almost highest office running for the highest office. We could probably look back at vice presidents of the United States and see how many of them went on to run for president. It would probably be almost every one of them-
Bill Thompson: Exactly. [chuckles]
Brian Lehrer: -in recent times. Last thing, your Board of Trustees chairman for CUNY these days, even though it's the City University of New York, I think it's accurate to say it's more controlled and funded by the state. Is there a CUNY agenda in the mayoral race? So many CUNY-affiliated people in our audience. From your vantage point, the top of the board of trustees that we should be asking the candidates about?
Bill Thompson: I think you should. Look and if you look, I believe [unintelligible 00:23:56] Stringer put forward a strong CUNY platform. I think all the candidates should be asked about CUNY and it is questions of funding because while it may be more of a state entity than a city entity, it is a city entity, the city puts money into it. How much money, what additional commitment is being made, what type of ties can be created, or additionally can be created with a mayor who really wants to create a closer tie with CUNY?
How what would they do in that regard? How do they see that playing out? We're working these days to create closer ties. Chancellor Felix Matos Rodriguez is pushing to have internships for every CUNY student, a paid internship. Where do mayoral candidates stand on that? There's so many things that could be done to benefit the students of CUNY. If you look, CUNY is the lifeline for the city of New York and the opportunity for over the decades, millions of people to get into the middle-class. CUNY is a gym, our candidates from there should be talking about that.
Brian Lehrer: On it being the lifeline, at this particular moment as trustees chair, did you get involved in discussions of the impact of the pandemic on the students? Do you have a take on what student's educations were set back by how much and what recovery for the most vulnerable of those students will require at CUNY?
Bill Thompson: Well, I think that there's some things that we're trying to do, provide additional mental health services for our students, take into account, and we did a number of different things as our classes were done remotely, they weren't done in person. Now the shift back to September as we're going to bring students back, and then working with our students to make sure that we take their best interests into account.
Everything that has been done for the last year and a half during this pandemic, it has been difficult. It's been difficult for our students. It's been difficult for our faculty and our staff. All of that is difficult. We're taking all of that into account as we move forward and try and come back as strong as possible, as well as to be able to work and focus again, because we lost students during the pandemic, to try and increase our enrollment again because it is good for the city of New York.
Brian Lehrer: Bill Thompson. Great conversation. Great to have you on again. Thanks so much for joining us today.
Bill Thompson: A pleasure, Brian. Good talking to you.
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