[music]

Kerry Nolan: This is All Of It. I'm Kerry Nolan in for Alison Stewart. Thanks for spending part of your day with us, whether you're listening on the radio, live streaming, or on demand. On today's show, we'll speak with cookbook author Kristen Kish. We'll also speak with Chris Satch, aka, The Plant Doctor Chris. He'll join us to help answer all your plant questions. That's next hour. We'll talk about how the warming planet is affecting New York City parks with Michelle Mueller Gamez, the Central Park Conservancy Manager of Climate Change. That's the plan. Let's get started with Bruce Springsteen.

Bruce Springsteen: Now one plus one equals two, that happens every day. That is not magic. That's the grind. That's when you get up, one, go to work, one, go to bed--

Audience: "Two".

[laughter]

Bruce Springsteen: Two, geniuses, too.

[laughter]

Kerry Nolan: Bruce Springsteen knows something about the grind. He's on tour with the E Street Band for the first time in years. He's a seasoned performer who knows how to play to his audience, and he also may or may not be in the twilight of his career, he turned 74 in September. It isn't unthinkable that this might be the last time he'll hit the road with the E Street Band, but many fans who have traditionally flocked to his concert are now being priced out. Yes, dynamic ticket pricing. The bane of Taylor Swift Fans has also arrived on E Street.

Joining me now to discuss this is Ben Yakas, he's an arts and culture reporter with the WNYC newsroom. He has seen Bruce Springsteen perform, Ben, how many times?

Ben Yakas: I think I'm at about nine times now.

Kerry Nolan: Oh, okay. My body count is a little higher than that.

Ben Yakas: I'm on the low end of superfans probably, but I got started a little later.

Kerry Nolan: I was just going to say, you're a young man. We also want to hear from you. Have you seen Bruce on tour this year? Are you planning to? What is special? Bruce fans, what is special about going to a Bruce Springsteen show? Give us a call, 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC, or you can reach out to us on social media @allofitwnyc. Ben, it seems like Bruce is perennially on tour, but as I mentioned, he hasn't toured with the E Street Band for a while. What was the last time he hit the road?

Ben Yakas: It's been seven years since he's been in North America and about six years since their final tour on the other side of the world. Obviously, he's been pretty busy in the time in between, and there was this little thing called COVID, which got in the way of some plans I think.

Kerry Nolan: Most bands and artists, when they do go on tour, it's because they have a new record out. Is there a new album coming? Why tour now?

Ben Yakas: Yes, previously, you can correlate almost all the tours with either a specific album release or like with the River Tour when they were doing a special anniversary in celebration of. This time, I think you can loosely connect it with the album he released in 2020, Letter to You, which was the last E Street Band album. Springsteen had gone through a really prodigious case of writer's block during the 2010s. A lot of the albums he released during that decade actually were older songs that he just completed, but in 2019, the dam finally broke and he wrote this group of songs specifically for the band.

They recorded them basically live in a couple of days, and he released it in 2020 during the pandemic. I think the plan was that they wanted to tour in 2022 originally, but because of COVID, they delayed it an extra year to try to make it so as a little bit safer for a bunch of somewhat vulnerable 70-year-olds to go on the road again.

Kerry Nolan: Bruce has not, however, been idle at home. There's been a lot going on between 2017 and now, COVID and locked down notwithstanding. As you mentioned, the last E Street album, and then of course, there was the Broadway show.

Ben Yakas: Yes, he's actually released four albums in that time period, which I guess this is what happens when you're not busy touring as you have a lot more time to look back over all these other projects he had. He had the Springsteen on Broadway show, which took place in 2017 and 2018. He released an album, a live recording of that. He released Western Stars, which is one of my favorite of his recent works, and that was a project in the works for almost a decade. That came in 2019, and then 2020 was Letter For You.

He released the podcast with Barack Obama in 2021, Renegades. Then he had last year at the tail end of the year, he had his soul cover album, Only the Strong Survive. He has been plenty busy doing all this stuff, but with the exception of the Broadway shows, really nothing live going on until now.

Kerry Nolan: Now, the tour kicked off on February 1st in Tampa, Florida. What are you hearing from fans who have seen some of these shows so early in the tour?

Ben Yakas: Well, with a lot of the beginning of the tour, and I think this is due partially to the fact that this is the first time they're up and running in seven years, and also the fact that there's COVID and there's a lot of delays. The tour is initially pretty set, it's a pretty strict setlist with about 26 to 28 songs. I would say 22 of them are the same every night. As I said, they're getting back up and running, and part of it is that people have gotten sick, different members of the band have gotten sick. I think there's some implication Bruce may have gotten sick for a couple shows which were postponed.

When you have people going in and out like that, you have to be able to call up some of the backup members to come in, someone who needs to come in and do some sax solos. It's nice having a steady setlist so they're able to know ahead of time what they might be playing. I think overall, it's a little more static right now than I think it will get eventually. Like a lot of setlists are in the past, they really vary from show to show even, but people have been happy, especially in terms of the sound of the band and the chemistry. It is still right there where it has always been.

Kerry Nolan: The E Street Band, speaking as another super fan, they are a mighty machine, they can turn on a dime, they are at a high. There is no daylight in between those songs and those notes and those players. It really is a wonderful, wonderful thing to see. By the way, we want to hear from you. It's not just between Ben and me talking about Bruce. If you've seen him on the tour this year so far, we want to hear from you. Are you planning to? We want to hear from you. Give us a call at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC.

My guest is Gothamist and WNYC newsroom culture and arts reporter Ben Yakas. Ben, let's talk a little bit about the staging of a Springsteen show. It's not like, oh, I don't know, a Beyonce or a Taylor Swift with dancers and big lights and all of that. It's actually for all the musicians that are on that stage. It's fairly stripped down.

Ben Yakas: Yes. I think really, the thing that most marks these shows are his exuberance, and his commitment to trying to connect with the audience, no matter how big an arena it is. As you have seen I'm sure many times, there are these fun theatrical moments. Like you always have the songs where Stevie and him are at the mic together, and there are songs like Ramrod where they almost go into a comedy routine together, [laughter] and they do all the mugging in the faces. Bruce likes to bring a little kid on stage for waiting on a sunny day.

Sometimes he'll grab a sign if someone in the audience has a sign, and he will play an obscure song because somebody wrote it big enough and he happened to notice it. For the most part, this is like a really stripped-down rock and roll show with musicians interacting with each other to a certain degree, and really playing for towards the audience.

Kerry Nolan: Let's take a couple of calls. Kristen, in Summit, New Jersey. Hey, Kristen, welcome to All Of It.

Kristen: Hi, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'll be brief. Original question was, what keeps coming back? I started my first group-- I'm 52-year-old, [unintelligible 00:09:28] concert with my parents [unintelligible 00:09:33] ever since [unintelligible 00:09:36] to my 18 and 20-year-old daughter--

Kerry Nolan: Kristen, I'm sorry, your phone line is dropping in and out. If you want to call us back, that would be great. Let's go to Victoria in Montclair, New Jersey. Hi, Victoria.

Victoria: Hi. This is Victoria.

Kerry Nolan: Hi. Welcome to All Of It.

Victoria: Thank you. Nice to be on All Of It again. I've been on a couple of times. Okay. I saw Bruce Springsteen last Saturday night in State College, a couple of days ago.

Kerry Nolan: In Pennsylvania.

Victoria: Yes, in State College, Pennsylvania. It was the most powerful, beautiful concert I have ever attended. It was a love letter to all of us, and the reason he's touring is because he loves the tour. He doesn't need the tour for a new record. This man is out there having the time of his life and sharing the love with his audience. It was a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Kerry Nolan: Is this the first time you've seen him live?

Victoria: No, no. I've seen him a couple of times in New Jersey, but nothing like what I saw Saturday night really. I was in ecstasy. It was a spiritual experience.

Kerry Nolan: Victoria, you get no arguments from me. Probably not from Ben either. Thank you so much for your call. Let's talk to--Who can talk to? Let's see. Ryan in Tinton Falls, New Jersey. Welcome to All Of It.

Ryan: Hey guys, how are you?

Kerry Nolan: Good.

Ryan: Great.

Kerry Nolan: Thanks for your call.

Ryan: Awesome. Thanks. I got tickets for the MetLife show here in Jersey. I got nosebleeds I'm going to tell you. I've never seen them before live. Am I going to get what I pay for or am I going to get top-notch? Am I going to feel this show? Any thoughts?

Kerry Nolan: Oh, you're going to feel it. He'll absolutely fill that stadium. Ben?

Ben Yakas: The first time I saw Bruce was at Emirate Stadium in London. My dad and I went on the Magic Tour. I was as high up as you could get. I was already a big fan, but it was the first time seeing him live and it locked me in, obviously, for life. Then I started my journey in terms of seeing him on every tour and every chance I could get. He has an amazing ability at making you feel connected and drawn in. As the previous caller said, it really is a love letter to the history of rock and roll as much as anything.

Kerry Nolan: Thanks for your call, Ryan. Ben, there's been a lot of pushback over the ticket prices on this particular tour. Someone also like Taylor Swift has had this problem happen. Let's talk a little bit about how dynamic pricing works and how it's impacting this tour. How expensive are these tickets?

Ben Yakas: These are expensive tickets. The concept behind dynamic pricing is that prices rise with demand in real time. It's similar to surge pricing like with Uber or Lyft or whatever. The more popular a particular ticket or artist, the more people are vying to get it and the more it'll go up in real-time. Part of the idea is that someone like Ticketmaster will say, "We're trying to cut out the scalpers. We're trying to get rid of the resellers. We want the money to go directly to the artist in addition to those enormous ticket master fees."

This is obviously becoming, unfortunately, more and more common pricing scheme amongst the biggest artists. The people like Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Drake, Harry Styles, everyone like that has dabbled or used this fully. This is the first time Bruce has used it, and the tickets were instantly the highest they've ever been. I think for this tour, we are talking like when those initial batch, the first leg of the tour, those initial tickets were released and you went on and you were able to get through those first pages and those pre-sales and everything for a good ticket, for a GA, for bottom of the stadium, talking thousands, $3,000, $4,000 a ticket.

Kerry Nolan: It was shocking.

Ben Yakas: Then for the okay ones, it's still like high hundreds, low thousands, which is, before this tour, all the previous ones I'd seen them and I'd gotten GA before. I don't think I've ever spent more than $250 for a single ticket. Now, you're lucky to get a nosebleed for that amount.

Kerry Nolan: Tom in the East Village, wants to speak to this. Hey Tom, welcome to All Of It.

Tom: Yes, Alison. Thank you very much. Quick story. Some high school buddies were in Asbury Park this summer when tickets came out. Rather than overpay to go to the garden, we loaded up the suitcases. We went down to Tampa for opening night. Wonderful mini high school reunion. I will say I recently saw where the Tulsa show tickets were selling for $6.

Kerry Nolan: Well, yes, but of course, you'd have to go to Oklahoma though. It's much warmer in February to go to Florida. I'm glad you had a great time and you had a nice little high school reunion. We're talking about Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band. They're on tour now. The tickets are pricey or not pricey, depending on where you are. We're talking with Ben Yakas from the WNYC and Gothamist newsrooms. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back in just a moment.

It's All of It on WNYC. I'm Kerry Nolan in for Alison Stewart. We're talking Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band and then the larger issue of the ticket business with Ben Yakas from the WNYC and Gothamist newsrooms. Ben, Bruce had an interesting response when asked how he felt about dynamic pricing. Can we talk about that for a little bit?

Ben Yakas: Yes, and I think that this has been one of the most disappointing aspects of this whole snafu to fans. In an interview, after the initial ticket sales and everybody flipped out over the pricing, there was an interview in Rolling Stone, which is, as far as I'm aware, the first and only time he's addressed this directly. He said that they had decided this time to do what everyone else was doing referring to the other major acts of Taylor Swifts and Harry Styles and everything.

His response to the complaints from fans was, "I know it was unpopular with some fans, but if there's any complaints on the way out, you can have your money back." Now, besides this being a little bit of a dismissive kind of attitude, the problem is that this is unpopular with the people who are most disappointed are the people who can't get through the door. They're not the people who are going to be in the building. This has created a two-tier system for fans, and Bruce has done a pretty good job of keeping his tickets in the reasonable range up until now.

Such that his more blue-collar fans, the people who have really followed him for 40-plus years, whatever, 50-plus years, I guess at this point, they have been able to follow along live with him. The shows are as much a part of the community of being a fan as any other aspect of the music. This has fueled a sense of betrayal, which is what led to the fanzine Backstreets, which has been around for over 40 years, they shut down because of everything that has happened.

Kerry Nolan: Now, Bruce isn't the only artist to get heat over this. The president of Ticketmaster's parent company testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee in January about Taylor Swift's ticket prices. Is there any kind of pressure being brought to bear on Ticketmaster?

Ben Yakas: Yes, this is another one of those cases where like never crossed the Swifties because this was perhaps this straw that broke the camel's back on this issue because obviously issues with Ticketmaster and this idea, especially once the merger happened with Live Nation, that this is a monopoly and that they unfairly dominate the ticket market, it's really coming to a head now in a way that it hasn't in many years. Even with everything with the pre-sales, so many of these tickets don't even reach general audiences.

You have to sign up for a credit card or sign up for a newsletter or whatever it would be, get a special password. It's going to be interesting to see because now they're finally grilling them about this and about the exorbitant fees and about the website outages and all these different things. If there's going to be movement, especially what happened with Taylor Swift and her Eras Tour, I think is going to be a thing that may move the needle on it.

Kerry Nolan: Let's go back to the phones. By the way, if you want to weigh in on your experience, either seeing Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band Live, or your experience trying to get tickets to see him and the band, we want to hear from you 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Liz in Manhattan. Welcome to All Of It.

Liz: Thanks so much for taking my call. I have been seeing Bruce live since I was 16 or so. I've lost count how many times I've seen him, probably 50 or more. I've seen him at least once on pretty much every tour except the last one. I'm really stoked that my best friend from elementary school got tickets for August. I'll be seeing him actually in Boston where my friend lives. I think the thing that's so incredible about Springsteen and his shows, and to your earlier caller Ryan, however much he paid for his ticket, he will get his money's worth

I've sat in nosebleed, I've sat in front row in small venues. It's always great. The thing that really clinched it for me was 20 years ago when I took my kids to a show at Giants Stadium, and we were way, way up, and he was playing Growin' Up. I was completely into it, standing up, fist in the air, and my kids are looking at me like, "Who is this?" It was something they related to because they were growing up. They were 10 or 12, but they couldn't wrap their heads around like, "Mom was young once and felt this."

Kerry Nolan: Right. I had the same experience with my son so I feel you in this. Thanks for your call, Liz. FT in Long Island, welcome to All Of It.

FT: Hi there. I for one, being older, but I can't wrap my head around people. I don't care how good Bruce is, and he's really good paying that kind of money for tickets. Before Born To Run came out, I walked up to the box office at Western music there in Long Island and bought tickets right there. The last big show I saw was Bruce's opening night at now it's gone to Brendan Byrne Arena, but that was a much more organic time, the fan base was different. Anything prior to Born in the USA was completely different.

As good as anybody is, and he's really good, I can't see those prices. It's contrary to any ethos that it had, and I couldn't-- The show, seeing videos of them, are kind of bloated and stuff. Nothing stays the same, but it's just hard at a couple of grands for a ticket. I don't think so. That's just my outlook. He's great, his work holds up, but I just can't wrap my head around it.

Kerry Nolan: Thanks for your call, FT. We appreciate it. Ben, you have seen a lot of Springsteen shows in your time. Let's talk about the time you saw Bruce perform at the Apollo Theater in 2012.

Ben Yakas: Yes. That was a really special show because it was the kickoff of the wrecking ball tour, and it was the first show after the Big Man died Clarence Clemons. It was the first time that to me, it felt like it was the beginning of this latter period of the E Street Band history, where the show shifted into a little bit of a tribute to their own history, and to the Fandom's history, where during Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out all of a sudden, they were putting up photos of Clarence and video and they stopped the song.

There was a lot more discussion about the ghosts and the people who we lose as we go along. This was at the historic Apollo, this was less than 1000 people. I've never seen him in a more intimate setting the whole band, and he was doing all of his soul covers. He was walking in the audience while doing this, and it was really special.

Kerry Nolan: Let's hear a little bit from that show. We'll hear Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out from the 2012 Apollo show here in New York City, Bruce Springsteen, and the E Street Band.

[music- Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out by Bruce Springsteen and E Street Band]

I'm on my own

And I can't go home

When the change was made uptown and the Big Man joined the band

[applause]

Kerry Nolan: Of course, that extended period of cheering was when a giant portrait of Clarence Clemons was shown in the theater. Everyone in the audience paying tribute as the band was. Tell us about the time you saw Chris Christie in the audience.

Ben Yakas: Yes. I'm sure a lot of listeners know about this, but Chris Christie is a notoriously huge fan of The boss. He's seen him upwards of I think 100 times or something, but the feelings are not reciprocated. They're not mutual. No matter how much Christie tried to convince Bruce to play his inauguration or just like hanging out with him. I think he wanted like the Billy Joel, Andrew Cuomo relationship where they got on their hugs together and they rode around town, but it never quite happened. Christie would still go to the shows and he'd always be spotted.

I went to see The River toward Barclays in 2016, and I was headed to the bathroom and I walked right past Chris Christie and I went over and was like, "Oh, hey, you're here." I decided, oh, I'm not a fan of the man but I appreciate his fandom. I appreciate the fact that despite the fact that his hero doesn't particularly like him or certainly doesn't hate him politically, he still loved his music and art and still was going to put himself in these positions every time to see him. I took a photo with him.

Then as we were taking the photo, I whispered in his ear that it smelled like farts in the arena so he gave a really funny look on that. That was my one and only interaction with Chris Christie in my life.

Kerry Nolan: Let's get back to the phones. Alexandra in Asbury Park has some advice. Hi, Alexandra.

Alexandra: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out is actually my favorite song so I'm so happy you played that. Thank you. Just for advice, people who are scouring for tickets but can't afford to pay 1000s like myself, if you put in the work and stock those ticket listings down, you can get some affordable prices. I was actually able to buy a ticket for two shows each for $60 plus fees, which I was thrilled about. My nose is definitely going to be bleeding, but I'm going to enjoy every second of it.

Kerry Nolan: Thanks so much for your call, Alexandra. Ben, you once described the album Darkness on the Edge of Town as the platonic ideal of Springsteen albums. Why?

Ben Yakas: I think there's a lot of arguments to be made at least half a dozen of his albums as being his best. I think with Darkness, he had already gone through a certain level of fame and hype and success, but he had also already started to deal with the bitter realities of being in the business. He had a lot of legal battles with his manager right before this.

I think, as a result, he wrote like, I don't know, 30, 40 songs for those sessions. He cut all the fat off the meat and created this very chiseled portrait of where he was at the time.

It's carefully chosen, it's perfectly performed, and it teeters between misery and hope where there is his great guitar playing on songs like Adam Raised a Cain. There's these crazy unusual arrangements on Candy's Room, which went through multiple different variations before he settled on it. There's these passionate songs like The Promised Land, songs of defiance like Badlands, and romance like Prove It All Night. It has Racing in the Streets, which I think, in a lot of ways is one of the quintessential Springsteen songs in that it dismantles his own mythology, a few years into his own career better than any critic has ever done.

I think what I had said at the time was that this is what happens when you ditch the town full of losers and lose. I think when I want my most concentrated dose of Springsteen, it's where I would turn.

Kerry Nolan: Is that your top album? If so, give me the other four.

Ben Yakas: Yes. I think that's my top one. I think the River is a double album that feels like a quadruple album, [chuckles] where it has so many different moods and so many different ideas that I constantly am finding a new song that I love about it every time I listen. Born To Run is of course a classic. I have a really really soft spot for Tunnel of Love, which I think it has, I guess, been critically reappraised more and more over the years. When I was younger, I was like, "Oh, the synths and everything turned me off."

Now, I just think the songwriting is amongst his absolute best and most gorgeous heartbreaking songs.

Kerry Nolan: Ben Yakas is the culture and arts reporter for WNYC News, as well as Gothamist. We've been talking about Bruce Springsteen, the E Street Band, and the ticket prices and the tour, and our shared love for this Bard on the Boardwalk as they used to call him. Thank you so much, Ben. I really appreciate you stopping by and this was fun.

Ben Yakas: Thank you so much for having me. Ill always come back to talk Bruce.

Kerry Nolan: Okay.

 

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