[MUSIC]
Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar in for Alison Stewart. Hey, thanks for hanging out with us. I'm so happy you're here. And I'm so happy that on today's episode, every single one of our guests will be in-person, in studio. It is a packed show. We're going to talk to author, Colm Toibin about his new book, Long Island. We're going to talk about food gifts with food stylist, El Simone Scott, and we're closing out the day with author, Helen Rebanks and actor, Nick Offerman to talk about Helen's new book, Farmer's Wife. That's all coming up, but first, let's get this party started with the Broadway revival of Cabaret.
[MUSIC]
In the Tony nominated revival of Cabaret, The August Wilson Theater has been completely transformed into the Weimar Germany Kit Kat Klub. Entering through an alley, you emerge into a space full of dancers, musicians, drinks and debauchery, and that's all before the musical even begins. It's a way to put the audience in the right mood and also to implicate us in what's to come.
Playing the iconic role of the Emcee is Tony nominee Eddie Redmayne, who contorts his body and his voice to become a strange creature of hedonism and fun with a dark edge. He guides us through the story of Sally Bowles, played by Tony nominee Gayle Rankin. The British cabaret singer thinks her life might be on the upswing after meeting an American writer named Cliff, but with Nazism on the rise, the time for carefree revelry is soon coming to an end, whether Sally wants to admit it or not.
Longtime fans and newcomers to Cabaret are both going to find something to delight them and surprise them in this new version of the show. It's directed by Rebecca Frecknall, and it's been nominated for nine Tonies, including Best Musical Revival. I am joined now by stars, Eddie Redmayne and Gayle Rankin, and director Rebecca Frecknall. Welcome the three of you to this studio.
Eddie Redmayne: Hi.
Gayle Rankin: Hi.
Rebecca Frecknall: Hi.
Kousha Navidar: What a party. [laughter] What a party. Bienvenue. What a party it was. I was going to say, welcome and bienvenue and welcome to All Of It.
Rebecca Frecknall: Great.
Gayle Rankin: Love free.
Kousha Navidar: Get us in the mood. Rebecca, let's start with you. Why does it feel like a good time for a Cabaret revival?
Rebecca Frecknall: I think it just feels like such an exciting and urgent and vital piece of work. I think every time I come back to this story, I'm shocked at how relevant and resonant it is. To bring it over here and do it again on Broadway feels so exciting because it's such an iconic piece of American musical theater history and legacy. But also, doing it today in our current political climate feels really exciting. To do it with Eddie and Gayle has just given it a completely new lease of life. Yes, it's an exciting revival.
Kousha Navidar: So iconic. I think that word sticks out to me. Gayle, I wonder for you, what was your first exposure to Cabaret? When did you know Sally Bowles was a role you might want to play?
Gayle Rankin: Actually, I went to a musical theater high school when I was like 15 and 16. I do remember I'd never seen the film and one of the girls in the class above me was assigned the song maybe this time. I do remember just listening to her sing that song and there was a really great sense of longing. I was, "Oh, I'm never going to get to sing that song," [laughter] and it was really sad. But there's something so very, very, very deeply Sally about that feeling and that longing and that hope. I do think that something quite early on in me felt very attached umbilically to that character in a sense of really tender longing. Her name was Claire and she was amazing.
[laughter]
Kousha Navidar: Did that idea stick with you even after high school? Was Sally always on your radar to play?
Gayle Rankin: No. No. She went away. I think I probably put her away because it's something so epic to hold inside of you I think. It's big. When it came across my proverbial desk, I was very afraid, very afraid to risk wanting it. But I took the leap and it was such a humane and life changing process to go on this journey with Rebecca and with Eddie and I'm so glad I did risk.
Kousha Navidar: Yes, it's such an interesting comparison to Eddie, I believe your first exposure to Cabaret because you first tackled the role of the Emcee when you were a kid. Is that right?
Eddie Redmayne: That is, as strange as it sounds. I think I was about 14 or 15 and we did it at school and I didn't know the show. I watched the film and I was completely blown away by it. Ever since, I've been a massive Cabaret fan. I obviously saw Joel Gray's performance in the movie and went and saw Alan Cumming's version with Emma Stone, which Gayle was also in here a decade ago on Broadway.
There's something about the character of the Emcee that he doesn't exist in Isherwood's book that Cabaret is based on. He was a creation by Harold Prince, the director and Joel Grey. There's this abstract quality to him that is so riveting for actors, I think because he's impossible to pin down really. The thing about theater is you go and you do it every night for a long period of time. The joy for us as actors is you're always looking to pin that thing down with the acknowledgement that you never will. Of all characters that I've ever played, I find him the most enigmatic. That's what's so thrilling.
Kousha Navidar: It's interesting that you bring up the word enigmatic because I saw the show last Friday. It was such a joy to come see it. While I was watching your performance, I was wondering how you considered the Emcee as either a person or as a symbol or as a metaphor or something else. Do any of those labels fit for you? Is it all of them? Is it one more than the others?
Eddie Redmayne: Well, it was in discussion with Rebecca really and Tom Scott, our designer. One of the ideas we liked was that he's almost conjured the evening. The set has a beautiful simplicity to it almost of a music box or a toy box. He brings these characters in and it's almost like he's the puppeteer to begin with. Across the evening, he shape shifts his way. Every time he comes on stage, he looks different, whether it's a pyro, a clown or there's a skeletal figure, or towards the end, just a suited Aryan.
The idea that he goes from puppeteer to conductor as the fascism creeps into the piece. That was something that we were looking for, but that it manifests itself in shifts that you were saying earlier, in voice and physicality. We played into the abstraction of him, I think.
Kousha Navidar: Yes. Well, first listeners, if you're just joining us, we're talking about the Broadway revival of Cabaret. We're very lucky to be in studio right now with Eddie Redmayne, who you just heard, who's the Tony nominee, the Emcee, Gayle Rankin, Tony nominee, Sally Bowles playing, and Rebecca Frecknall, who has guided this entire beautiful piece of work. I'm so happy that you brought up this set, Eddie, because Rebecca, I'm wondering for you, how early on in the process did you know you wanted this to be an immersive theater experience, that you really wanted to transform the place into the Kit Kat Klub?
Rebecca Frecknall: I think when Eddie and I first talked about doing it maybe four or five years ago now, [laughter] a long time ago, there was a real desire for the audience coming to not feel they're coming to the theater and to not feel that they're coming to, at the time, a West End show and now Broadway show. Because we were really keen to create something that people who are maybe not traditional theatergoers or feel theater is not for them or feel intimidated by that could come and experience the piece in a slightly different way.
We were first of all talking about found spaces or real club spaces or what we could do. Then actually, this was the one production where the pandemic actually worked in our favor I think because The Playhouse Theater in London ended up standing empty for a couple of years over that time and so The Playhouse became our site that we could respond to and we could change. In coming here, we had to make sure we could find a venue that was happy to go on that same journey with us. We were incredibly lucky that the people at the Wilson and Jordan Roth were excited to have us reimagine it there for that space because I think Cabaret is so much about the complicity of the audience.
What's clever in the writing is that the audience go from partygoers to voyeurs to participants in the political arc of it. If you are sitting looking at a [unintelligible 00:09:48] arch, it's very easy to detach from that. But if you've been on a journey through a building and met the characters and sat in a circle around them and had them come and talk to you, you are in the show, you're a character in the show.
Kousha Navidar: Is that part of the reason why- -you made that choice to have the audience in the round, all enveloping the actors?
Rebecca Frecknall: Yes. In the original Broadway production that Joel did, the set had a mirror in the back wall, which then you see again in the film. It's doing this thing of showing the audience themselves and showing us mob complicity and mob mentality and what that means. There's a song, an iconic song, that the iconic Bebe Neuwirth sings in the show called What Would You Do, and it's a direct question to the audience. It's nonjudgmental, it's an open question, but it hopefully provokes some thinking.
I suppose working in the round is our interpretation of that mirror, because you can see the audience on the side. Every time you are looking at a picture, the audience is behind, or whatever angle you are looking at, and we can play with having them disappear or become center stage. That's been the exciting thing about working in the round.
Kousha Navidar: Eddie, what does that add for you of having that audience in the round and it being surrounded on all sides?
Eddie Redmayne: It's amazing. The interesting thing for the Emcee, the other character in the scene with him is the audience, and that shifts and changes every night. The audiences that have come here in New York have been so passionate. What's extraordinary about the evening is you get people dressed in black tie, sitting next to people in fetish gear, next to people in jeans and a t-shirt. For me, interacting with people from different walks of life who are finding different things funny, who are finding different things moving, it's live theater in its most essential form. Of course, that's why actors, we love doing it.
Kousha Navidar: Yes. Gayle, Eddie talks about every night being different. Your first immersion or emergence onto the stage is actually right in the audience. Do you have any memorable interactions so far?
Gayle Rankin: I was like, "Right. Yes."
[laughter]
Kousha Navidar: Any memorable moments for you of interacting with the audience so far?
Gayle Rankin: I've gotten some sweet words.
[laughter]
Gayle Rankin: Some sweet, sweet words. People are so polite, and funny, and kind, and shocked. It's a really good opportunity for me to get temperature of where we are in the evening and break the seal. I don't really get to interact that directly with the audience, so it's really fun to start there and I end there. There's such a nudity to the end of the piece, I think, especially for Sally, and so there's something quite cyclical about it. But yes, it's lovely to connect with people. People have got some drinks, they're having a really good time, they're really up close and personal.
Kousha Navidar: Which probably helps bring out those sweet, sweet words, all those drinks, I'm sure.
Gayle Rankin: Oh, yes. Very early on.
Kousha Navidar: Very early on.
Gayle Rankin: I'm like, "When did you get here?"
Kousha Navidar: That was one thing that really stood out to me when I showed up, was just the immersive experience of the supporting cast that was-- Before the show even begins, there are performers, there's an accordion, there's a violin, a bass, these beautiful moments. Rebecca, I want to give a shout out to some of the incredible people who perform before the show even begins. Can you tell us a bit about the pre-show cast? What did you want to achieve with the performances that were happening before curtain call?
Rebecca Frecknall: Yes. This was, again, part of the idea of it feeling like a found space or a real club. One of the first lines the Emcee says is, "Leave your troubles outside, in here, life is beautiful." We wanted to get the audience ready for that line, if you will, ready for that kind of place. Our prologue company, which is made up of incredible dancers and musicians and directed by Jordan Fein, choreographed by Julia Cheng, and composed by Angus MacRae, and goes through this incredible-- I don't know how they make. I mean, I'm involved in the prologue, but I cannot take responsibility for it because it's really that team.
This company that have made this piece that's an hour and 20 minutes long, nonstop, and they come together and do-- there are solo moments, duets, trios, and then these moments, which we call-- they each have their own name, one's called The Conjuring, one's called The Awakening. They're really trying to conjure the production, and conjure the spirit of the space and conjure the spirit of Weimar Berlin.
I think what we really wanted to do was we didn't want to create something that was trying in a nostalgic way to be a historical recreation of that time, but what we wanted to do was create a contemporary-lensed version of the atmosphere of what that might be like to walk into that club. Actually, it's Klezmer music that's being moved around with drum and bass, and whacking, and popping, and cramping, and all sorts of contemporary club culture movement qualities, but mixed in with this sort of 1920s feel as well. It's trying to create a bridge from 52nd Street to 1929 Berlin, really, and that's its job. It delivers the audience to Eddie to then play with.
Kousha Navidar: Which is a great segue because I wanted to talk about the Emcee's a little bit in depth, maybe hear a little bit about it. Eddie, I was struck, and you mentioned this before, about how physical your performance is. You're really contorting your body. You used puppeteer, and it's interesting because it looked like you were a marionette at some points. How did you arrive at that physicality for the performance?
Eddie Redmayne: It was a dialogue really with Rebecca and Julia, our choreographer. I'm not a great dancer, but--
Gayle Rankin: You are a great dancer.
Rebecca Frecknall: Not true.
[laughter]
Eddie Redmayne: Frecks comes from a movement background as well and so we just started very early, didn't we? We had four months of just workshops, and Julia, our choreographer, brought the physicality out of me really. There were so many interesting places. It's such a rich period to look into. There's an amazing dancer called Mary Wigman, who's worth looking up on YouTube, she did a dance called The Witch Dance, which I found very thrilling, and compelling, and terrifying in equal measure.
Actually, even here in this city, the Neue Galerie in New York has all those amazing Egon Schiele drawings and the way his hands were. He depicts hands and some of those bodies. It felt very much of that moment. There was a bit of that and there was a bit of clowning. There's this school in Paris called Lecoq, which is a physical theater school. I went and did a course there before Frecks and I started working on the theater of the absurd, and it was lots of mask work and all these things. It was lovely to put all of that in the sort of cauldron, I suppose, mix all that around, and then under the guidance of Rebecca and Julia, find a way through him.
Kousha Navidar: Let's hear a little bit of the very first number, which is Willkommen, where you really, like Rebecca was saying, bring the audience from 52nd Street right into Berlin. Here's a little bit of it.
[MUSIC - The Emcee: Willkommen]
Kousha Navidar: If you're just joining us, we're talking about the Broadway revival of Cabaret. We're here in studio with Gayle Rankin, Eddie Redmayne, and Rebecca Frecknall. I would love to spend a little bit of time also on Sally Bowles's character, which, Gayle, was a very moving performance for me personally. Your Sally has a kind of manic energy to her. What do you think is the source of all of that energy? Do you think it's covering something for Sally?
Gayle Rankin: I think it's centuries or decades of some kind of angst. I do believe that for me, Sally is kind of-- there's so much iconography and so many amazing performers have played her, and there's a legend around this character. I think it's why people are so drawn to her. Speaking of like enigma, I think like the Emcee, Sally carries with her a mystery, a lot of mystery. I think, especially as a woman, that's a really interesting thing to start to open a door into a character.
For me, I actually don't believe that Sally intends to be mysterious or intends to cover. What I find beautiful about her and challenging about her is that I think she is intending to tell the truth at all times. I think there's something about the world that is quite difficult for her, and I think it's heightened. I think she's a creative soul and a deeply feminine soul, and in some ways an asexual soul trying to like move through this world and- -we're watching that as an audience, and many people have many, many, many thoughts and feelings and opinions about what that is.
Kousha Navidar: Almost like a symbol equal to this Emcee.
Gayle Rankin: She is, yes. I think it's important for us as an audience to recognize what we've made of her. There's this amazing line that the Emcee has and it's repeated, "Don't forget to bring her back once you've finished with her." I do believe that we have an opportunity as a culture to look at what we've made of Sally Bowles and what we've understood of her. There's something that Frecks and I, we've all tried to allow Sally to live and see what the audience and what we've all experienced of her, but also try to find my truth and Rebecca's truth and Julia's truth are-- There are truths in there I think we've been really eager to hear and feel and, yes, sing.
Kousha Navidar: Having that idea of truth, but also what we bring to it, I think is such a critical part of this show. While I was watching it, I was thinking how now is, of course, a particularly poignant moment to be staging a play that deals with anti-Semitism. Eddie, for you, you did this show in London on the West End a few years ago. I was wondering, have you noticed a difference in audience reception at this particular moment in time?
Eddie Redmayne: I think the audience reception shifts nightly. We were talking about, actually, before we came in here from moment to moment. It's a very odd thing being an actor because you get to see how groups of people respond and what the ripple through can be. What I find extraordinary about Kander, Ebb and Masteroff's piece is it's so razor sharp and specific to the period it was written about, but it also then, of course, sung to the moment it was written in, in the '60s, 20 years after the end of the war. When it was then redone in the '90s, in the Sam Mendes production, there was a war going on in Eastern Europe, and it felt very pertinent then, and it feels extraordinarily relevant now.
I think that it's a testament to the piece that it has that specificity of the period, but it can also be read as rippling across generations, and the sadness that we perhaps haven't learned from our mistakes. I think John Kander puts it beautifully that he hopes that it will stop being relevant at some point.
Kousha Navidar: Yes. We'll have to pause it there, but it has been such a pleasure. Cabaret is running now at the August Wilson Theatre. Go check it out. You'll have an experience. We've been lucky to be here with Eddie Redmayne, Gayle Rankin, and Rebecca Frecknall. Thank you, all three so much.
Rebecca Frecknall: Thank you.
Eddie Redmayne: Thank you.
Gayle Rankin: Thank you.

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