Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. In the new film Eephus, a men's recreational baseball league has gathered to play one final game. Their small town baseball field is being destroyed in order to make room for a new school. While these New England men are far from professionals, in fact, some of them are a little drunk the whole game, baseball is one of the ways they can be part of something. Well, at least until they have to run for the ball.

Eephus follows these players and a few of their dedicated spectators as they take to the field together for one last time. The film premiered at Cannes in 2024. It's funny and it's heartwarming and bittersweet. In their review for the festival, IndieWire wrote, "The film's only villain is the passage of time, and its protagonists are simply facing the unpleasant realization that their era is ending sooner than their lifespans." Eephus is now playing at the IFC Center, right around the corner, and at Film at Lincoln Center. I'm joined now by the film's director, co-writer, and editor Carson Lund. Hi, Carson.

Carson Lund: Hey, how's it going?

Alison Stewart: It's going well. The title of the film comes from an Eephus pitch. First of all, what is it and why is it the right name for the film?

Carson Lund: Eephus pitch is a pretty rare pitch. It's not thrown very often anymore. It was invented in the early 1900s by this guy Rip Sewell, and then popularized by Bill Lee in the 1970s. Bill Lee, known as Spaceman because he's quite an outsider within the history of baseball, played for years for the Red Sox and also the Montreal Expos, and he's in the film as well. The Eephus pitch is a slow, lobbed pitch that is so radically slow relative to the other pitches that are thrown, that it catches the batter off guard and reorients their sense of time. They swing too early or way too late, and they're just thrown off completely by this pitch. The term actually derives from Hebrew E-F-E-S, which means nothing or avoid, because it's a nothing pitch.

Alison Stewart: Well, why was it the right name for the film?

Carson Lund: Well, first of all, the film is a comedy, and I think the word is funny. That's the simplest answer, but I also think within the canon of baseball films, this one is a little peculiar in terms of really, I think, being faithful to the rhythm of the game, which many describe as slow. For me, it's in all that slowness or those mundane periods between the action, there's so much going on, there's so much richness, especially if you play it, you feel that with your teammates. There's all these opportunities for socializing. I think that the film is, in its own way, a slow, lobbed pitch that helps you rethink your relationship to the passing moment and makes you more present.

Alison Stewart: There are no real protagonists of the film. It's truly an ensemble piece. There might be some people who might be considered bad eggs because they pitched for the school, they wanted the school, or maybe they drank a little bit too much. Why did you want to have this story be the story of many?

Carson Lund: It is the story of many. That's why. Because everyone's having the same realization. They're coming to the same conclusion, they have to say goodbye to this ritual, and with it, a version of themselves that they all share on that field. It's different from what happens in the rest of their lives, that the field is a refuge, it's an escape for them. They're all having to come to terms with that in a similar way. I think it allows you a lot of freedom as an editor and as a storyteller to float between these different characters and not necessarily lose the audience along the way, because everyone's kind of going through the same thing and dealing with it in their own very distinctly New England ways, sort of avoidance and cracking jokes and trash talk and all this stuff.

Alison Stewart: What was the casting process like?

Carson Lund: It was mostly conducted remotely because I live in California now, but I am from New England. A number of players or cast members were people I'd worked with prior from the Boston area when I went to school at Emerson there. Then a number of them were new to me, and I found them on casting websites in the Boston area. I conducted it all over Zoom and had to ask them to throw a pitch on a Zoom call, so I had a sense of their experience with the game.

Alison Stewart: But it does look like you went to a bar and went to say, "Hey, who wants to be in my movie?"

Carson Lund: Yes, that's what I want. I want that feeling for sure. I did talk to hundreds of people for this movie, and a lot of people were right for the role in certain ways, but they didn't have that look. For me, I really want that look, a sense that someone has lived a life. I think those faces, we've kind of lost them from the screen.

Alison Stewart: The film takes place in New England. Glad to hear you're from New England. There were a lot of little details about New England in there, like that the manhole covers were triangle-shaped versus circular. What did you want to add? Why did you want those little details for the film?

Carson Lund: Well, I think baseball obsessives will tell you that some of what they love about the game is dwelling in these little details, dwelling in the stats and categorizing players and all this stuff. I think for us as filmmakers, we're also interested in those details, the regional details, the things that are very specific to the New Hampshire town where I grew up and also my co-writer, Mike Bosta, grew up. I also had another co-writer, Nate Fisher, who grew up in Rhode Island, and he brings some of his details into that, including the name Adler's Paint is derived from Adler's hardware in Providence, Rhode Island.

Alison Stewart: I'm aware.

Carson Lund: Okay. I like this profusion of details in the movie that just washes over you and gives you a real sense of space and time. Another thing I think we're losing for movies is a real sense of space and time because everyone seems to shoot in the same locations because they're tax hubs.

Alison Stewart: Everything's in Atlanta.

Carson Lund: Yes, exactly. You don't know where any movies are set anymore. I guess as an overcorrection for that, I try to load the film up with all these details that I remember from the '90s in New Hampshire.

Alison Stewart: I'm speaking with Carson Lund, co-writer, director, and editor of the new film Eephus. It's about a men's recreational baseball league coming together to play one last game before the field is shut down. The movie is now playing at the IFC Center and at Film at Lincoln Center. A school is going to take over Soldiers Field. It could have been anything. Why did you pick a school?

Carson Lund: The easy thing to do would have been a mini-mall or some sort of high-rise development, and that does happen in the modern world for sure, but I think it would have let the characters off the hook too much. They're all frustrated and they're bitter about the fact that this is all coming to an end for them. I think that by making it something that's positive for society, at least at face value, a school for children, it makes them have to wrestle with the fact that we're always dealing with change in our lives. Time passes and things change, and that's something we have to deal with, even if it's ultimately for the betterment of society. I think we can relate to these characters who have to deal with that. I didn't want it to be a didactic film about one specific evil that you can point to or a gentrifying force, because that would have, I think, narrowed the film in a lot of ways.

Alison Stewart: Almost made it. It would have made it too easy.

Carson Lund: Yes.

Alison Stewart: I want to read you this quote from the IndieWire review of your movie. It says, "A lot of ink has been spilled over the loneliness epidemic that plagues American men in the 21st century, but few films crystallize the problem as efficiently as Eephus." Was this something you were thinking about?

Carson Lund: Certainly. I think so, yes. I think we've lost a lot of opportunities for this kind of leisure activity in this country, whether it's because we're all too busy and we all have money to make to sustain our lives in this increasingly hyperspeed, late capitalist society. We've lost a lot of places where people can just hang out and pursue a passion that they love and just connect with some childhood joy. I think with the loss of this space in the film, these characters may not be able to find a new outlet for their friendship.

Maintaining group friendships is it takes effort, and that effort sometimes falls down the pecking order when you have many other things going on in your life. I think it's definitely a reflection of where we're at and what we call third spaces. It's not your home, it's not your work. It's somewhere else where you can create a family, surrogate family, or something. I've certainly watched over the course of my life as people have found less and less time for this. I have found less and less time for this. This is why I joined a rec league. I think it's been really healthy to get out there once a week and just do something with reckless enjoyment.

Alison Stewart: What's your relationship to baseball?

Carson Lund: I've played my whole life. I was very, very competitive about it when I was younger and I was in traveling leagues. There was maybe a chance that if I had really pushed myself and got into the weight room more that I could have actually gotten to the next level, but I grew a little bit tired of the whole culture around it and the stress and the pressure, and I didn't like being in the weight room at all. I just got more into films at the same time. I left the sport for a while, but I did come back when I went to California and the weather was so nice, the baseball just felt like it was in the air. That's when I joined the rec league. I found that there was a very different tone to the gamesmanship. It was more about the passion for the game and about sharing that passion with others rather than trying to ascend to some next level.

Alison Stewart: This is your feature directorial debut. Congratulations, first of all. What did you learn on this film that you'll take to future projects?

Carson Lund: Man, I learned that you always need more money and more time, but I've learned that many times over because I've been a cinematographer for years. I've shot three features and I've shot many shorts as well, so it doesn't really feel like a debut.

Alison Stewart: Okay.

Carson Lund: I've always been working on low budgets as a filmmaker ever since I was a kid. The role of cinematographer and director have always felt very fluid to me, and I've edited my own film. In this case, I gave myself the director title because this was my story, but, yes, I've made other films before, so I'm always learning. I think one of the things that was maybe reinforced, solidified by this film was to just keep working with the friends and the group of people that I've grown to love working with. I think we made an incredible chemistry on this film that I want to sustain going forward and work with these same people. I think that that's one of the lessons that maybe I already had it in the back of my mind, but it was really, really confirmed by this production.

Alison Stewart: It is truly a hilarious film. I have to say that out loud. I really enjoyed it.

Carson Lund: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: My guest has been Carson Lund, co-writer, director, and editor. The film is called Eephus. It is playing at the IFC Center and at Film at Lincoln Center. Thanks for coming in.

Carson Lund: Thank you so much. Appreciate it.