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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It, I'm Alison Stewart. Joining me now for look at where we stand with the vote counts, the court cases, and what is potentially next is Jami Floyd, WNYC's newsrooms legal editor and senior editor of our race and justice unit. I think you may be going for the Kornacki, Jami. We're keeping you on the air a lot these days. Thanks.

Jami Floyd: That's a thing now.

Alison: Yesterday, we talked about many court cases that the Trump campaign has filed. We talked about this yesterday. Has there been any movement in any of those cases in the last 24 hours?

Jami: Oh, yes. Well, the legal offensive continues, Alison, despite a number of setbacks since we spoke at this time yesterday, 24 hours ago. The campaign sued to allow its observers closer to ballot counting in Pennsylvania, as we discussed, that's resulted in a minor victory when the judge essentially ordered the parties to negotiate over the Trump campaign's desire to observe the counting, and they did.

Now, the Republicans are a bit closer to the action, but Alison, importantly, the counting is ongoing in Pennsylvania. They were not successful in halting the count. A similar suit in Michigan has been dismissed. A suit over late absentee ballots in Georgia has been dismissed. To be clear, vote counting continues in Pennsylvania, Nevada, Georgia, and Arizona. These are the battleground states, which are under intense scrutiny, as you've been discussing. Biden inching closer to the Electoral College votes he needs to secure the presidency, and obviously, our newsroom closely tracking the count, and we'll bring it to listeners and readers on Gothamist as soon as we know more.

Alison: Over the last 24 hours, officials in these states that are still too close to call emphasize that they are not seeing voter fraud and that they are doing things very carefully. Why is it important to emphasize that these last ballots are counted?

Jami: Right. Well, in addition to slowing the process down, which is President Trump's goal in filing these suits, President Trump is also continuing to cast doubt on the results on the process. He's also keying up his supporters who are, reportedly, Alison, planning rallies across the country. They're branding their rallies now as Protect the Vote rallies.

The countervailing goal of the people in these many halls across the country doing the counting in Philadelphia, in Detroit, in Phoenix, in Atlanta, is to respect their work, and the voters who took the time to fill out these ballots and to mail them in, senior citizens, veterans, the disabled, people at risk of contracting COVID. Their votes all count, every last one. That's the foundation of our democracy. That's why it's critical that every single ballot be counted to begin to restore faith in our system after four years of it being questioned and undermined.

Alison: Election officials in Georgia spoke to the media this morning around 10:30 AM, and at that time, there were 4169 votes to be counted. I'm sure it's changed by now.

Jami: [laughs] Right.

Alison: That's the downside of live radio is I can't check Twitter while I'm talking to smart people because I have to listen to them. They don't expect to have what they're calling final numbers until tomorrow. Why is it so significant the vote in the state of Georgia remains too close to call?

Jami: Georgia is, for me, the most fascinating state on the map. As you say, about 96%, 97%, maybe even 99% of the vote has been counted. The remaining votes are in democratic areas, and it's likely to be under 10,000 votes spread within that margin in a presidential election. It brings to mind Bush v Gore. With that in mind, the Trump campaign filed one of its lawsuits in Chatham County claiming, as we've all heard about now, that 53 mail-in ballots arrived after Election Day and should be thrown out based on the testimony of a single GOP poll watcher.

Election officials said the ballots arrived before the deadline and the lawsuit was quickly dismissed. The counting continues there, but officials are predicting, Alison, there will be an automatic recount triggered when the candidates are within .5% of each other. The results do have to be certified before that recount can start, Alison, so we're thinking that'll be Saturday, tomorrow, or possibly Sunday, but everyone is expecting a recount in Georgia. It has a huge number of counties. It's a big process in Georgia.

Alison: My guest is Jami Floyd, WNYC's legal editor. Wisconsin. Okay, the Trump campaign is that it will demand a recount in Wisconsin, which is not nearly as close as the rest of the states that we're talking about today. How likely is that recount to help Trump's numbers? How likely is it to happen, and then, how likely is it to help?

Jami: It's going to happen, it's not going to help. The law in every state is different as it is for the voting process is different for what happens when there's a dispute. The law in Wisconsin says Donald Trump is entitled to a recount there if he wants to pay for it. Former Governor Scott Walker, a quite conservative Republican, has spoken out to say, "Mr. Trump, it's just not worth it. You're not going to win. It's not worth it."

On Wednesday, the Trump campaign said he will request the recount after unofficial tallies there showed the spread is about 20,000 votes. They're alleging, by the way, again, Alison, with little evidence that there were irregularities in the vote. The recount there, by the way, cannot begin until they certify their results, and those are not due until December 1st.

Alison: Oh, my goodness.

[laughter]

That just left me with a-- Took my breath away for a minute, December 1st. Pennsylvania. A lot of eyes, obviously, on Pennsylvania. This would secure it for Vice President Biden to get to 270. Senator Pat Toomey from Pennsylvania said earlier today, "No evidence that Democrats are trying to steal the election in the state." President Trump and his surrogates seem particularly focused on Pennsylvania. You've heard, for example, Lindsey Graham say, "I trust Arizona but not Pennsylvania."

Jami: Right. Yes, of course, the big fight is there because there are 20 electoral votes there. That's the whole game if Biden wins Pennsylvania. If we want to know when the counting will be finished, I did talk to some lawyers close to the process, and they also are looking at finishing this weekend. It is a process for them that they were less familiar with than other states, but apparently, is going much more smoothly than many had anticipated despite claims by Republicans that they haven't been able to observe. We just discussed that has been largely resolved.

The Trump team still suing about the question of whether absentee ballots that have been coming in after Election Day should be counted and that, Alison, could go up to the US Supreme Court. This state is key, and that's why it's going to be a battle. Whether it will be a successful one, as your earlier guest suggested-- Oh, caller, it was your caller at the end of the last segment, he's right, you have to have evidence when you come into court. You can't just throw facts at the wall, they have to stick, but I think that Pennsylvania is a major fight because of the large number. It has been in presidential elections going back decades because it's such a big state and a key state and has so many electoral votes attached to it.

Alison: Let's move over to Arizona, recently sent updated tally this morning where ballots coming in from Maricopa County, around the Phoenix Area, and President Trump took a slight majority of the ballots that were counted this morning. With 90% of the vote counted, Joe Biden is ahead in the state by around 47,000 votes. When we think about Arizona, has the president's path narrowed because of what's happening in Arizona? It seemed as though his surrogates and his campaign were really hoping that Arizona would possibly come out on their side even though the AP-- AP called it, AP and CNN, I believe.

Jami: Yes, it's AP. Well, Lindsey Graham said, "I trust Arizona." [laughs] There you have it. I think the fascinating thing about this election and all things Trump is that nothing is predictable. I don't see any litigation filed yet in Arizona. I might be missing it. I have my spreadsheet in front of me. Let me take a quick-- Oh, I take it back. No, I am wrong, but the litigation filed there was filed by the Democrat about changes to Arizona's election procedures having to do with in-person voting and voter ID. That's the voter ID case that you and I had talked about in a previous conversation.

The Trump people not fighting there, it was the Democratic Party fighting on behalf of voting rights and voter ID, which is a long-standing issue in the party. I think that this is a sign that in Trump land, as I often called it, nothing is predictable. We might see some litigation there from the Trump campaign, but it hasn't been filed yet.

Alison: Jami Floyd is the legal editor and senior editor of WNYC's race and justice unit. We're talking about what's been going on in the courts. I'm going to ask you to put on your race and justice unit big boss hat for a moment, and I want to get your take on the internet and Twitter talking about Stacey Abrams' role and fair fight. When you think about her role in this election and her desire to have people who've been disenfranchised come back into the system or at least be recognized, how do you-- What do you think has been her role and the role of fair fight in Georgia, and how it's had an impact this week?

Jami: Well, I'm glad you're asking. I haven't really tweeted about this or spoken about this because nobody's asked me, [laughs] so thank you. I think if Joe Biden wins this election, it would be fair to say that he has one person to thank above all others, above many others, or at least, along with a whole bunch of folks. We always talk about Black women as the backbone of the Democratic Party, this year, we can say Black woman, one Black woman, and that Stacey Abrams. I mean, think of what she did in Georgia, think about how she got out the vote, think about how she turned attention to the ways in which voting rights have been suppressed and repressed and oppressed in that state.

She's a real executive leader. I mean, she really thinks in terms of organization and mobilization. I've not met her, but I am told that when you are in a room with her, she takes over. She owns the room. She's powerful and has ideas and constructive ways to make change. She founded her New Georgia Project and registered 100,000 new voters before she went on to create Fair Fight, which is geared at fighting voter suppression, all with a constructive plan for change. It's not just talk, it's action. That plan for change turned Georgia and is delivering Georgia.

Now, we don't know what's going to happen there, but the fact that we can even talk about it as a possibility is a remarkable thing. I also just want to say what I said to you yesterday, Alison, that I think you caught me off guard at the end of the show, asking me how I feel about this election. I feel good.

[laughter]

I feel good, like the song goes, because voters are out in huge numbers and that's what democracy is all about. This is why Stacey Abrams inspires me because as a Black woman in America, you could be depressed and despondent, or you can get out and get up and work the phones and walk the sidewalks and get out the vote, and that's what she did. That's my answer to your question about Stacey Abrams. You caught me again with another question I was not prepared for, but I'm so glad you asked it.

Alison: You got to drop some James Brown on the air, which always makes it a good day.

Jami: I didn't sing though. I didn't sing.

Alison: We only have a minute left. What should we pay attention to? What's the one thing that we should pay attention to in the next 48 hours?

Jami: Well, obviously, I don't like to go out on a limb, I would think within the next 48 hours, we're going to know who won this election. I would close with the opening lines of our founding document, The Constitution, this election is not about Joe Biden, it's not about Donald Trump, it's about we, the people, of the United States in order to form a more perfect union. We established this United States of America. It's about our vote. They all need to be counted.

Alison: WNYC legal editor and senior editor for WNYC's race and justice unit, Jami Floyd, thank you so much for being with us, always a pleasure.

Jami: Rest and restore this weekend, Alison.

Alison: Sure. [laughs] This is All of It on WNYC.

 

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