Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It. I'm Kousha Navidar, filling in for Alison Stewart. Photographer Clifford Prince King is no stranger to capturing Black creatives. He's taken portraits for A-listers like Khalilah, Daniel Kaluuya, and Issa Rae for magazine stories and luxury fashion campaigns, but his latest project, Let me know when you get home, is more personal. He takes viewers into the interior lives of queer Black men around the world. As a queer Black man himself, King captures intimate scenes. Some are kissing in the forest, others are lounging in their bedrooms soaked in a warm ray of light.

These photos aren't presented in a private gallery or tucked away in a magazine page. In collaboration with the Public Art Fund, they're currently on view at public newsstands and bus shelters throughout New York City, Boston, and Chicago out in the open, everyone can see. According to King, this project is his way to strive to make space for people like him in the streets. With me now to discuss his latest public photo exhibition is photographer Clifford Prince King. Hi, Clifford. Thanks so much for joining us.

Clifford Prince King: Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for having me.

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. Let's talk about the title of your exhibition, Let me know when you get home. It's a phrase that's imbued with love and care, something I think I'd say to somebody I care about. Why was this the right title for your series?

Clifford Prince King: I was at a party in New York on a night and one of my friends was leaving and I screamed as she was jumping into her car. I was like, "Let me know when you get home," and it clicked. I think that's a phrase that we all say to our loved ones when departing from each other. Then these are all going to be on JCDecaux bus shelters throughout the city, and the bus is a mode to get you home. It's a double meaning in that way.

Kousha Navidar: That's wonderful. You're showcasing 13 photos, each with their own unique touch. Where were these photos taken? I understand it was in all different locations.

Clifford Prince King: There's some that were taken on Fire Island and in Syracuse, Vermont. I did three artist residencies back-to-back last summer. I ended up just putting all my things in storage in LA and then going on this three-month nomadic journey with my camera and friends, new friends, old friends, reconnecting and sharing space that summer. Then I ended up just staying on the East Coast.

Kousha Navidar: You were taking pictures along the way, I'm guessing?

Clifford Prince King: Yes, just making the outside space feel like a studio in a way, but then also capturing some candid moments in between.

Kousha Navidar: You had your camera with you all the time. This was obviously something that you knew you were going to-- Not obviously you knew you were going to be doing. Did you know over time this is what the shape of it will be, or was there a moment where you thought, "Oh, this is the shape that I would like it to be?"

Clifford Prince King: It became like a visual diary in a lot of ways. The way I work isn't necessarily really planned. I think there was a lot of freedom to the work that was being made at the time. Me and the curator, Katerina, just, toward the end of the summer, looked at all these images that I had taken over my course of this journey and selected a handful that really highlighted the feeling and just the overall transitional period in my life, and we came up with this.

Kousha Navidar: There's the idea of it being a transitional period in your life, which is interesting because bus shelters are transitional places. They're liminal spaces where you're waiting to be moved from one place to another, kind of what you were talking about with the meaning of the title. I love how your photos are in very public places. Where did that idea come from?

Clifford Prince King: I think it's just Public Art Fund's programming. They've been doing this for a really long time, and I think we really want to bring art to public spaces just as a form of just the public being able to see art without having to go to museums or galleries in these spaces that can be a little intimidating. I think just seeing art out in the open just gives people access, and middle of their day, end of their day, I think something beautiful to look at amongst a busy day in the city is pleasant.

Kousha Navidar: When you see it in the open as opposed to a gallery or a museum, does the impact of the photo feel any different to you?

Clifford Prince King: I think it does, because I was on the bus the other day and I saw one and it startled me, but in a good way. I think, for me, I've been in gallery spaces and museum spaces the last few years. I do this mental preparation to intake all this work and information, and I think toward the end of it, it can be a little depleting. I think when there's random spurts of it throughout the day, or when you see something that you're not expecting, I think it hits a little different because I think it's almost like the universe is guiding you in the right direction. Sometimes when you are met with something that speaks to you and you didn't really seek it out or ask for it, it just presents itself, I think is a really special feeling.

Kousha Navidar: It's a really beautiful way of thinking about the role that art plays in your life, right? For you, has Public Art influenced your work, if at all?

Clifford Prince King: Yes. Just thinking about public in general, a lot of the work that I make was interior-based. Thinking about Black and queer intimacy, a lot of that happens in homes or in private, but I think with this project, I really took it outdoors and made public spaces feel like they could be private in ways. I'm still going back and forth between that. It's a long conversation that I'm having.

Kousha Navidar: Like you said, there's very striking photos, portraits. By the way, listeners, we'll be posting some of Clifford's photos on our Instagram and website later today. As we're talking about it, if you want to check it out while you're listening, you can go and check it out or after the fact. There's one photo, Clifford, that I found especially striking.

It's a close-up of a man's face, and he's holding a pink flower, and it's covering half his face. He's looking right at the camera, and there's a tenderness and warmth to his expression. It's like he's inviting us into the world. Can you tell us the process of how you created that image?

Clifford Prince King: Yes. That image was taken during my residency at Light Work at Syracuse University last summer. I was staying in this building that used to be an elementary school. The old cafeteria has this really huge window that's, I feel like it's stained orange, at a certain time of day, the light would come in through the window with this godly orange glow. I had met this boy online. I was looking for a Black community in Syracuse, I've never been there, and I was there for a month.

I was just doing research on the space and trying to meet people, and I met this guy, Malik, who's in the photo. We had coffee a few times, dinner, and just talked about art, about desires, about where we see ourselves in the near future. I got these lilies because they're my favorite flower, because there's an evolution with them. They start closed off or close, and then they bloom over time. I feel like it was metaphoric for me, just starting off one way, and hopefully coming to a sense of growth and rebirth with that.

Kousha Navidar: How do you build up trust like that to get folks to sit with you for such intimate photos?

Clifford Prince King: I think just by taking things slowly. I also don't really approach people with a concrete plan. I think a lot of photographers will really get into planning mood boards and referencing and having things really figured out when it comes to taking photos of people. I just see how this person's energy is and our dynamic and if I feel like there is a sense of ease and trust and friendship, then I think I proceed to maybe take images of them without much ask. I never want someone to feel like they're jumping through hoops in front of my lens. I just try to keep things really organic and easy as possible, which I think builds a lot of trust and just makes things fun.

Kousha Navidar: We're talking to photographer Clifford Prince King. His public portrait project, Let me know when you get home, is being presented on newsstands and bus shelters around New York City until May 26, and a preview will be available on All Of It's segment page and social media. Clifford, you mentioned you don't want them to jump through hoops through the lens of your camera. It's a good segue to a question about your lens. You used a film camera for these photographs. What do you enjoy most about taking photos on physical film?

Clifford Prince King: I just like film because you can't really stop and look at what you're doing. I think for others who do use film, there's that sense of excitement when you get your film back either from a Walgreens back in the day or just an email with the things that you experienced. You forgot about it, but then it brings back that moment of joy throughout the process.

Kousha Navidar: Did you try to use specific lenses for this project? If so, why were those the right ones to use?

Clifford Prince King: I just used one. I'm not a very big gearhead. I've used the one Canon AE-1, which is a pretty-- I think it's like '90s, very classic camera. I've used that for about six years now. I'm very adamant about like, if it's not broken, don't fix it, so I stick with that. There's more freedom for me because technology is growing, cameras and programs update and change, and I'm just still in my Canon AE-1 phase.

Kousha Navidar: I also hear this sense and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like stripping away complexity is important for you, like picking one thing and doing it really thoughtfully. Do you think that's fair?

Clifford Prince King: Right. I think I like to be as present as possible when making photos. I think sometimes technology can remove me from the dynamic I'm having with the person I am photographing. By pressing the button to take the photos, I think 10% of the job. I think the other 90% is connecting and just being in the moment and trying to put a visual language to what up feeling is becoming between the two people.

Kousha Navidar: It's interesting because you've also photographed A-list celebrities like Temz and Issa Rae. Do you have a different approach when photographing them than those in your current collection?

Clifford Prince King: I don't really have a different approach. I think I'm just a little more anxious and my environment is a little more chaotic during those moments. They've all been really good learning experiences, and everyone's really nice. I think those spaces, I never really saw myself in those spaces, so it was just really affirming to be in them and then also create to my abilities.

Kousha Navidar: Was there a particular project that you were especially nervous or excited about doing?

Clifford Prince King: I think I was on set for the first episode of the last season of Insecure. I was just really surprised how long it took for them to shoot one scene. It was like a few hours at USC in LA. There's just a lot going on. I think they hire photographers to take pictures of behind-the-scenes and whatnot, but there isn't necessarily a designated time for that so you're having to jump in and out. I was saying sorry a lot, just trying to be out of the way. That's just the person I am, but then also trying to get the shots. It was a lot of mental work, but it was cool.

Kousha Navidar: A lot of hoops to jump through, it sounds like.

Clifford Prince King: Right. It was neat, but it was just a little stressful. It was fun.

Kousha Navidar: Well, going back to this project that you have on display right now, have you seen people in public react to your photos?

Clifford Prince King: I haven't really. I get really nervous when I see them because I don't know. I think I have a little bit of stage fright, or I think people would-- Because I'm in some of the photos as well. I think there's about three photos of myself and them. I look from afar, and I'll watch people double-look or double-take. I smile in my mind to people walking.

Kousha Navidar: You have seen people react to your photos then.

Clifford Prince King: Yes. I look and then I like run away.

[laughter]

Kousha Navidar: Run away, but look towards them to see that smile. Is it gratifying to see your work and creating these spaces like you said?

Clifford Prince King: It really is. I think the most fun I've had with this is friends sending me photos. It is a really unexpected thing to see throughout a day. You're not necessarily planning on seeing my work or work in general while you're on your daily commute. It's also I think really important for this work to-- I feel like I want people to feel present. I think I walk around the city a lot and people are on their phone walking or distracted or just getting from one place to another, which is understandable. I feel like with this work, I really want people to just slow down, take their time, and just be present. When people send me these photos, it just shows me that that's what's happening.

Kousha Navidar: We've been talking to photographer Clifford Prince King. His public portrait project, Let me know when you get home, it's being presented on newsstands and bus shelters around New York City until May 26th. There's a preview that's going to be available on our segment page and on our social media @allofitwnyc. Hey, maybe when you're waiting for the bus or you're buying a newspaper, you might see some really beautiful photos on display right there and help you be present. Clifford, thanks so much for joining us.

Clifford Prince King: Thank you so much.

 

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