[music]

Alison Stewart: From the bluegreen that frames the eyes and the famous bust of Nefertiti to the Iranian woman who is lying theirs as an act of resistance to the Bedouin men who rely on eyeliner to protect their eyes from sun and dust. Some cultures use kohl, others sormeh. Some eyeliners call for a mix of bile from a hyena's gallbladder mixed with cedar honey, or others use kohls or stones that are soaked and then ground up. Many use certain kinds of plants. Each liner has a distinct purpose.

Author Zahra Hankir writes about all of it and makes connections between these longstanding historical traditions and some of the most iconic and dramatic uses of eyeliner today, including Amy Winehouse's thick cat eye and the deliberately cartoonish liner applied by Trixie Mattel and other modern-day drag performers. Zahra joins me now to talk about her book, Eyeliner: A Cultural History. Zahra, welcome to All Of It.

Zahra Hankir: Hi, Alison. Thank you so much for having me.

Alison Stewart: Listeners who wear eyeliner, particularly if you have a strong cultural connection to your eyeliner, we'd like to hear your stories. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. We want to hear how your eyeliner makes you feel, whether it connects you to any family traditions. We can also take questions about the ways different cultures use eyeliner around the world. Our phone lines are open, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call in and join us on air or you can send us a text to that number as well. Our socials are available as well @AllOfItWNYC.

Zahra, in your introduction, you talk about how your own relationship with eyeliner took shape, including how you saw your mother use it and how, for better or worse, people would tell you, "You looked like Egyptian queen Nefertiti." Can you take us into the moment when you began to appreciate that eyeliner had this rich history?

Zahra Hankir: Sure, so I grew up in the United Kingdom. My parents had immigrated there during the Lebanese Civil War. My mother was really quite busy all the time. She had six children and she was constantly surrounded by chaos. Every morning, I would watch her apply her eyeliner quite ritualistically. I used to feel the world would come to a standstill. I also observed her transform in a way. I felt even then that there was something quite profound about this object and that it connected her to something bigger than herself. It was only later that I learned about the cultural and historical significance of eyeliner, but that was really my first connection to it.

Alison Stewart: You include a glossary of terms in the book to help keep track of the different words for different kinds of eyeliner and uses between different cultures. What surprised you about how much variety and different kinds of materials?

Zahra Hankir: Sure. It was anything really from nuts and plants and the sap of a tree to the crushed pearls or silver or gold that were used in quite luxurious formulations of eyeliner in ancient Persia. I will say it is quite a wide range of materials. I think what differentiates Western eyeliner, which is highly processed, from other forms of eyeliner throughout the Global South and elsewhere is that those forms of eyeliner tend to be made from natural materials. The earliest iteration of eyeliner kohl in ancient Egypt was made from the minerals of malachite and galena as well. There's a long history of natural materials being used for eyeliner.

Alison Stewart: What did the reporting and research process for this book look like?

Zahra Hankir: It happened actually during the pandemic. I quite ambitiously had the plan to travel to multiple countries. I was able to do so with great sensitivity to what the COVID situation was in each country. I traveled to Chad, Japan, Jordan, India, also Berlin to visit Nefertiti's bust, and then also Los Angeles to write about the Mexican-American cholo community. I traveled to each place.

I unfortunately had to report on Iran from afar given the protests there, but I traveled to each place and really immersed myself in each culture for a number of months. I did a lot of reading, a lot of watching of television and movies. I went to lots of museums because this is also quite a visual book. It was actually quite an enriching experience for me. I learned a lot about other cultures while also immersing myself in my own.

Alison Stewart: The name of the book is Eyeliner: A Cultural History. I'm speaking with its author, Zahra Hankir. Let's talk about Nefertiti. Use it as a jumping-off point to explain how eyeliner became popular in the US in conjunction with this new obsession with the Egyptian queen that started with that bust that you mentioned that you visited in Berlin. Let's start with what we know about the real Nefertiti's eyeliner practices and how do we know it.

Zahra Hankir: Sure, so we know through archeological studies that eyeliner was used quite prolifically in ancient Egypt. Ancient Egyptians really prized their looks. Their looks were also closely tied to the idea of conception and rebirth. They often had items of makeup buried with them in their tombs, among them kohl. Nefertiti, I argue, is actually the world's original and earliest beauty influencer.

When her bust was revealed to the West, she spurred this immediate fascination and obsession with how to obtain this exotic look. Many Western women emulated her look by using kohl. I do want to say here though, kohl's use in ancient Egypt went far beyond the aesthetic. It also had spiritual purposes. It honored the gods. It shielded the eyes from the evil spirit. Also, it protected the eyes against the glare of the sun, and it had medicinal purposes as well.

Alison Stewart: How do you think about the implications of the way Nefertiti became a beauty icon that she became here in the US? It's a little complex.

Zahra Hankir: That's such a good question. I would say in the earliest interest in Nefertiti, there was a lot of fetishizing, I would say, and also that was part and parcel of what we'd call orientalism or an exoticizing of the East. It was part of Egyptomania as well, which was this profound obsession with Egypt that started in the 1920s with the revelation of Tutankhamun's tomb.

I would say the earliest fascination with her was somewhat problematic in the sense that there was a lot of glorification of her look and an intent to emulate that look, but that happened against a backdrop of racism at a time when, actually, the beauty industry was not really catering to women of color in the way that they were catering to white Western women. At the same time, these women were emulating Nefertiti's look by wearing eyeliner quite heavily.

Alison Stewart: I want to go back to the glossary for a little bit because we're talking about kohl. We're talking about K-O-H-L, kohl. [chuckles]

Zahra Hankir: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Specifically, what is the definition of kohl, K-O-H-L, kohl?

Zahra Hankir: Well, really, it is a naturally-made pigment that outlines the eye. As I said, it can be made from a number of different materials, but the goal of kohl is to enhance the eye in terms of how it looks to alter its shape, to also protect the eye, as I said, from evil spirit and to treat it medicinally and also to protect against the glare of the sun. This range of purposes is used mostly in the Global South across Asia, Africa, and broad parts of the Middle East as well.

Alison Stewart: I mentioned, I hope I pronounce it right, sormeh, this loose powder used by Persians to enhance the eyes. Traditionally, how did people obtain it?

Zahra Hankir: Again, it would be from natural materials. Well, the interesting correlation here across much of the Global South is even though the names of these different forms of pigment were different, they were actually obtained from natural materials with similar processes. It would either be crushed stones or it would be the soot from burned materials.

Often, it would depend on the materials that was being burned. Really, in ancient Persia, it was a range of materials. Actually, nuts played a big role in the obtaining of sormeh. Actually, today, sormeh is still made from nuts and other materials as well. Like I said, it often depended on class. More luxurious formulations of sormeh could use quite luxurious materials such as pearls and different precious metals.

Alison Stewart: The title of your third chapter is Eyepaint as Resistance: Sormeh in Iran. What is the relationship between eyeliner and political resistance?

Zahra Hankir: Sure. Iran is quite an interesting use case because, obviously, as we know, in 1979, women were instructed to wear the hijab. Also, cosmetics were actually officially banned. The extent to which women could self-express was greatly curtailed in terms of their aesthetic. At the same time, the face took on outsize importance obviously. Women became quite creative with how they adorned themselves with makeup and the way that they wore their hijab.

There were subtle forms of resistance. They would wear nail polish and lipstick. Also, they would wear eyeliner as well in similar ways to how they wore it previously. Obviously, as we see, that would mean that the face is taking on layered meaning when it comes to self-expression that is not purely limited to the aesthetics. In some cases, the very intentional decision to wear makeup in particular ways, in particular spaces can be an expression of rebellion or disobedience.

At the same time, I do want to say that sormeh, which, again, is naturally-made eyeliner, is actually considered permissible in some Islamic communities, given that the prophet Muhammad himself was set to have worn a form of eyeliner. A delicate or subtle line of pigment across the waterline, which is where the lashes grow, isn't quite the same as a very vivid or bold wing that we're seeing today among many members of Gen Z in Iran.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Zahra Hankir. The name of her book is Eyeliner: A Cultural History. Got an interesting text. It says, "Where would the beat women have been without the eyeliner?"

Zahra Hankir: Well, that's a great question. Where would so many of these subcultures have been without the eyeliner? We see it across so many interesting and very vivid aesthetics. One of the ones that stood out to me as well was the chola aesthetic, the Mexican-American aesthetic. It's really fun to see how different subcultures really-- eyeliner played such a significant role in them.

Alison Stewart: Your title of your chapter about the chola-Chicano subculture is Not a Costume. How did you come to the title, Not a Costume?

Zahra Hankir: Yes, because, actually, the main character, Winona, in that chapter, who I absolutely adore, said that to me herself in the sense that, oftentimes, she's looked at as wearing something of a costume because of her aesthetic. Whereas for her, it's so much more profound than that. It's a channeling of her Mexican heritage and identity and it's an honoring of her mother's legacy as well.

Actually, within the chola community, the use of eyeliner has historically been quite political when looked at as part of a bigger aesthetic in which when Mexicans emigrated or moved to the US, they were treated with great hostility. There was a lot of racism and discrimination, but the aesthetic was part of a broader idea of pride in one's identity and a refusal to assimilate in some instances as well. As we see there, that's definitely not a costume, even though it has been appropriated as a costume and as a look as well in the past.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, we're discussing the history, a cultural history of eyeliner. We'd love to get you in on this conversation. For folks who do wear eyeliner, particularly if you feel a strong cultural connection to eyeliner, give us a call, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. We want to hear how your eyeliner makes you feel and if it connects you to any family or cultural traditions.

We can also take questions about the way different cultures use eyeliner around the world. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can call in and join us on air or you can text us at that number. Also, we're available on social media @AllOfItWNYC. What about when eyeliner is very, very specifically part of a costume, when it really is about ornamentation, when it really is about enhancement? Where's an example of that?

Zahra Hankir: Yes, I think we see a lot of that in the performance arts. I saw a lot of that in India with the Kathakali dancers, which is a form of dance, which tells stories through the movements of the eyes and also the gestures of the hands. The eyes are very, very heavily aligned in quite dramatic ways to convey different messages, depending on the character, for sure. In that sense, I would say they would comfortably say that is part of their aesthetic that they only adopt when they're on the stage. At the same time, kajal in India and much of South Asia plays a much more layered role outside of costume, but it is used in different ways in different spaces. I think that is a very, very vivid aesthetic.

Alison Stewart: In Japan, you write that there's a word associated with eyeliner, which means showy and loud. I don't know what the pronunciation is. I'd love for you to be able to say it so it's said correctly. Then the follow-up question to that is, what are some of the judgment values that are sometimes associated with eyeliner?

Zahra Hankir: I think Japan is quite interesting because it has had different aesthetics over the years that have been influenced by global trends and practices in eyeliner. Very early on, it was influenced by China and then also the West. I think, today, we're seeing a lot of the K-beauty trends. I actually wrote about the geisha community in Japan, whereby I studied how important that aesthetic is to their performance and artistry.

The use of red eyeliner in that context, which is called Mubari, actually protects against the evil spirit. We see a layered use of eyeliner there. Actually, I spent a lot of time in the more trendy modern parts of Tokyo, where people are wearing very, very graphic eyeliner, which is quite fun to look at. There's like an explosion of patterns and colors there. Sorry, can you just repeat your second question? [chuckles]

Alison Stewart: You know what? My second question was a time when their attitudes or their cultural moral judgments made about eyeliner.

Zahra Hankir: That's a really good question. I think it really depends on the culture. I think broadly across the Global South, there is an understanding that eyeliner carries this very profound meaning as echoed in literary texts, philosophical or medicinal texts, also theater, poetry. It's just so present in culture in a way that it's not looked at solely as makeup. At the same time, I do think in some communities, there is this modern, I think, misconception that eyeliner is used to prettify or beautify a woman.

Therefore, if somebody is wearing it, if, let's say, a man is wearing it in a prominent way, they might be understood as trying to be effeminate in a way, which, obviously, is inherently not problematic, but it just brings about newer discourses around the use of eyeliner. Also, it can be used in goth communities, of course. Therefore, it might be looked at as being "satanic." It depends on the community in the area, but I do think there are a lot of misconceptions around the use of eyeliner, for sure.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to some of our listeners. Suman is calling in from New Jersey. Hi, Suman.

Suman: Hi.

Alison Stewart: You're on the air.

Suman: I was just listening to this program and it's very interesting because we always wore eyeliner. We never actually had eyeliner. We used to wear, it's called kajal, which is made from burning kohl, and then put an iron pot on top of it, and then you collect it. Then we used to wear surma like you were talking about sormeh. We used to wear that in the eyes. It's supposed to be beneficial for the eyes. From my parents, grandparents, everybody wore that. They believe that it saves you from the evil eye. I don't know, [chuckles] but it's definitely beautification like the bridal makeup. Those things are very important for women. Every day, they get up in the morning and they put the kajal in their eyes.

Alison Stewart: Suman, thank you for calling.

Zahra Hankir: Thank you for sharing.

Alison Stewart: I just wanted to ask about some of the practical aspects of eyeliner. We've been talking about the spiritual and some of the aesthetics, but where in your research did you find that it had a practical application?

Zahra Hankir: Sure. I think particularly in Bedouin communities, it can protect against the glare of the sun. You see it a lot amongst nomadic communities. I spent some time with Bedouin and Petra in Jordan and they partially wear it for that reason. Although they will admit to saying, "Of course, it does beautify the face," as the caller had just said, I think we have to acknowledge that it does play that significant role.

It also can treat the eyes or it has been said to treat the eyes medicinally. That also depends on the composition of the eyeliner, but there are some historical studies that show that eyeliner that is made from natural substances can provoke an immune response in the eyes. It can help with things like bacterial infections as well.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Anu, who is calling from Waldorf, Maryland. Hi, Anu.

Anu: Hi. This is so wonderful and amazing because I absolutely love eyeliner. I'm a new transplant to Waldorf. I lived in New York for 50 years. I used to study and practice. I still do practice ancient Egyptian way of life, some of the traditions in terms of religion and stuff. When I was born, I have a birthmark that comes from my eye. As I got older like a teenager, people used to always come up to me and say, "Your eyeliner is smudged." [laughs]

As I've gotten older, it's lighter, but I wear eyeliner every day. As I was telling the person who answered the phone, every day is a practice for me. I never feel like I get it perfect. I have found, though, that the pencil is much more forgiving than the liquid. I've given up on liquid. Also, I'm in my late 60s and I find the skin is not the same as when you're in your 30s or 20s. They say you shouldn't stretch your eye to put on liner, but I feel I have to. Any tips on application would be wonderful.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Anu, thank you for calling in. Actually, I want to fold Anu's call right into Kristen from Glen Ridge because they're sort of related, their comments. Kristen, thank you for calling in.

Kristen: Hi. How are you today?

Alison Stewart: Doing well.

Kristen: Okay, so I actually work in product development in the cosmetic industry. What we find is that most people don't realize, most of the better eyeliners that are created are actually made by art pencil companies. The art of putting on makeup is really connected to the art of drawing as well, so drawing on your face, drawing on paper. They make some of the best ones that you can buy today to sell for your brand.

Alison Stewart: Kristen, that's fascinating. Thank you for calling in. Zahra, had you ever heard that before?

Zahra Hankir: This isn't actually kind of a new approach to eyeliner. In ancient Egypt, it was very much considered a form of artistry.

Alison Stewart: Interesting.

Zahra Hankir: In fact, a makeup artist, I think, in hieroglyphs. The way that it's translated is that it adds that layer of this is not just you applying makeup. It is a form of artistry. Yes, I love to see that that still exists today in different cultures and communities, our approach to eyeliner.

Alison Stewart: Someone has texted, "I too watched my mother apply her dark brown and black eyeliner every day. An essential part of her signature look, which was beautiful and sexy. I identified it with her Italian-American heritage. I've worn dark eyeliner most days since I was 14, including during the day. At a stay-at-home order during the pandemic, it helped me feel connected to my personal identity and feel grounded."

Thank you so much for whoever texted that. Another interesting text, "I traveled to Dubai to perform with a dance company and saw so many Arab men wearing eyeliner. They were also very manicured from their beard to their nails and quite strikingly beautiful." We haven't talked much about men in eyeliner. You specifically talk about young men from Nigeria who use eyeliner, especially when they're getting ready for a particular festival. Would you share a little bit about that practice?

Zahra Hankir: Sure, so this is actually in Chad. It's the Wodaabe community.

Alison Stewart: Chad. I'm sorry.

Zahra Hankir: No problem. It's the Wodaabe community, which is the subset of the Fulani ethnic group. Actually, in that community, especially at this beauty contest which is held annually, the onus is very much on the man to beautify himself versus the woman. The expectation is that they will decorate and adorn themselves and dress up in a way that will allow them to attract the attention of a potential partner. Therefore, the women judge them in that context. Also, charm is part of that display of their beauty.

It was really interesting to see because kohl plays a big part in that process because, for them, they value the idea of contrast, so the whiteness of the eye against the darkness of the outlining of the eye, and then the whiteness of the teeth against the darkening of the lips. They would wear kohl pots around their necks on necklaces and as talismans as well. It was really fascinating to see the men waking up at the break of dawn and spending an hour, upwards of an hour beautifying themselves to impress the women.

Alison Stewart: I mentioned that you spent a chapter with Amy Winehouse, the late Amy Winehouse. Why was that important?

Zahra Hankir: I actually think Amy Winehouse is one of the biggest icons of eyeliner. I think along with Nefertiti even, she holds that stature when it comes to her looks. The way she presented herself to the world with the very larger-than-life eyeliner that took on the life of its own, it grew as her fame grew. The wings stretched out towards her temples. Of course, we know her beehive as well. It's unimaginable to think of Amy Winehouse without those wings. I don't think if any celebrities have managed to etch themselves into our aesthetic memories or aesthetic cultural memories in the way that Amy Winehouse has.

Alison Stewart: Thank you to everyone who called and texted in. Thank you to Zahra Hankir, the author of Eyeliner: A Cultural History. Thank you so much for sharing your reporting and your research with us.

Zahra Hankir: Thank you. It's such a treat to chat today. I appreciate it.

 

Copyright © 2023 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.