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Hello has it that the you who the I'm a now W. N.Y.C. presents City closer each week at this time see more and say going to be a city officials on the work of their department today Mr Siegel The guest is the honorable Apprentice J. Blaustein acting chairman of the city planning commission Mr SIEGEL How do you do ladies and gentlemen and welcome to city closeout a great privilege for us to have as our guest in this edition a city close up by an old and good and magnificent friend of mine the honorable Francis J. blasting commission a blasting as the acting chairman of the city planning commission he's been involved of city government for as far back as May his memory goes I suppose for the last three decades he's has a reputation for having when the most magnetic memories of any man and city government he's been involved in almost every phase of city government and so we're delighted to have you with us Commissioner blasting this edition of city close up first of all everybody knows that the city planning commission is involved with guiding and coordinating the development and growth of the city in the US This is a rather overwhelming project doesn't overwhelm you know not when you when dealing with a long as I have. While I was in a lot of pop meant and I commend city service and thirty years ago as you just suggested I had to deal with almost every city department. So that it wasn't an unusual thing and when I went to the Planning Commission for the first time to find that my cumulated knowledge stood me in good stead What are the duties of the Planning Commission in the planning department by the way I wish you'd tell us the difference between used to where the spell that out the charter spells them out fairly accurately you've got understand that the city planning commission is a relatively new agency and government was created in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight under the previous charter and up until that time there was no city planning commission many of the functions that it's now exercises were exercised by other agencies and government the Board of Estimate and apportionment known at that by that name at that time the chief engineers office the controllers office and the other agencies in one thousand and thirty eight the city planning commission as an independent agency and government took over the department of city planning is nothing more than the staff on of the Planning Commission and I as acting chairman the city planning commission and the director of the pot in the city planning commission itself consists of seven members a chairman a vice chairman and five other members all appointed by the Met are they appointed for folks terms yes the with the exception of the chairman who says at the pleasure of the math all of the members point it's an eight year ten's and a day and these are overlapping term there but I will also go to continuity to reg that all the lapping times in the chart in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight which first established the commission itself and the new charter continues overlapping time is around the allocation of different tasks in the commission other ways to different commercials become specialists and certainly areas only to the extent that assignments are made by the chairman to various members of the commission and. For various purposes both for capital budget purposes and for other purposes brought the year. Different commissioners have different departments assigned to them and I have continued that as my predecessors at the start of it and the members do become more knowledgeable about the various departments of which that's supposed to have jurisdiction so that when they report to the commission they have the most current knowledge of the status of various facilities in the pop and the areas in which they are moving the directions and with them moving so that the commission is always on top of the situation question applies to you just mentioned that the the planning on whether staff long is a planning department how large a staff to how we have over one hundred ninety. Members on our staff and the Department of city planning itself are these the architects or engineers in the plan of the plan on your plan as various titles a planning geographer statistician's. Experts engineers civil engineers architects experts in the fields of planning itself and these are all civil service personnel as I rather the very few exceptions there are also all service personnel. I ask your usual question do you have enough people to carry out your job. No we have extremely competent and loyal and dedicated persons and the pop meant we could use a substantial number of more individuals to carry on the work. Because currently we have so many matters before us in addition to the routine matters that must come before us under the charter where special matters that arise from day to day. I can just name a few of them to indicate to you the vast amount of. Work in the complexities of the additional things that come before us the most current thing as you probably aware is the Breezy Point matter that we've got the various designations for renewal areas that are consistent with a mass program of stablish ing as much in the as great an inventory of new housing as possible the Lower Manhattan Expressway I expect in the short period of time will probably have before us the question of the hell a port in the Pan Am building the new zoning resolution has created a number of problems requiring adjustments from time to time which is not unusual when a document as complex as a new zoning resolution for a city is a large as New York is on the Pagan. When the shakedown period is over we expect we will of and compost all the changes that have to take place and we'll continue to make changes these are all the things that take place aside from the routine matters that take place well let's start with some of the routine matters and then I want to get back to some of things that you mentioned for example you're responsible for the master plan that's correct to tell us about this one is a master plan and something is on a map or as well all with the with the focused. Charter nine hundred thirty eight setting up a commission. There was created a concept of a master plan which is nothing more than a guide. With respect to the orderly development of the city on the Jodhaa and the present charter which recently became effective merely provides a city planning commission shall be charged with the duty of showing desirable areas for housing for transportation for education for parks for bridges for playground for transit facilities for hospitals when away the this is zoning functions No No No The We've got to make a distinction this is this is a planning into the future this is a a a plastic guide which is mobile enough so it can be changed from time to time but it does provide. Access to those people who are interested to determine the area which the city is going in in these various fields in other words we have established various master plans people have a concept there's only one master plan well you couldn't on a single physical map or on a single physical model place all the facilities and show the direction in which we're going so that we have a number of master plans we have a master plan for drainage districts we have a master plan for school we have a master plan for pox we've got a master plan to libraries we were at a master plan for areas suitable for slum clearance and redevelopment we've got a master plan dealing with the the question of commercial redevelopment these are various areas in which the Planning Commission is trying to provide in advance of the situation itself so that all the mistakes that were made in previous years due to improvisation on not made again what we're trying to do is create a. Orderly development and you can only do it if you have set up a some ground rules a plastic situation in which you say well we're going to go in this direction and I don't deny that we move from that from time to time because we've got killed. Nob zoning is merely a master plan of land use as a knock on the zoning later so that's basically the function of the master plan when are these mis providing sidling physical maps yes actual physical maps that we have adopted showing with a legend on the map which actually shows as a the the determinations that the Planning Commission has made with respect to these various factors in other ways the math the plan for areas suitable for slum clearance and redevelopment many in many situations where this federal aid let me say it is necessary is a condition preceding that the BE SUCH master plan otherwise the federal government and many statutory provisions require that there must be a master plan indicating that we have given thought that we have given study to the development of the particular matter we're interested in so that this is not just the women or a caprice that we're moving in the direction of which we can support it by by evidence that this is the area in which to go when I was your money master master plan the ways that money matter which all of these things are superimposed No because you're going to submit physically impossible what about this great model is now I was going to not belong up there at the world ninety six that was going to be a tremendous model. Which may take a large area it will show every building every facility in the city and the art built to scale I have already seen a section of it. With with lighting it's one of the most. Exciting and it's one of the most stimulating things one could see. We hope that the model after the world will be made available in the civic center in New York. In Manhattan rather so that the general public would have an opportunity to view this wonderful work of art by the model Micah who set it up with each building built to scale. From. The five boroughs from the tip of the battery right up to bank call and pocket right off the Staten Island Queens and Brooklyn which will show the buildings the bridges the street system and if you're interested you could pick your own house out because of its shape and size and as the areas are redeveloped and new buildings develop the old building will be replaced by a new building so that the materialism is of such character that it can be used reuse replaced and constantly kept up to date and so this of course would provide a very excellent tool for the commercial as well yes because my son is with up to this time on many occasions we actually use aerial photographs if we want to do time and one of the area looks like. As an integrated part of the whole. If you go to a place on foot Magnus backing you see visually going to a limited view a limited amount of area if you want to see how the sits with regard to the rest of the area you've got to have more than that now the more than that we achieve by aerial photographs I've been up in helicopters making inspection that way and we could see the relationship of the particular matter we're interested in regard to everything else around again they cause like everything else in the city like this when you do something here it has an effect here and when you do it here it has an effect elsewhere so that we've got to be mindful of the implications of any movement we make like a blown you put your finger in at this point obviously the it must read somewhere else so that the four we do something it's wise to take that step forward at least in your own mind to determine where will this lead us the model I think will be extremely helpful in that regard and this model of course will be unveiled at the Sony building at the World's Fair in April next. That's correct nine hundred sixty for your use of a balloon. But how something would do with Boyle's lore I believe is really kind of a blast in a lot of that but you come out well Miller developed in connection with what the effect of a particular action by the Planning Commission or one neighborhood would have or another. No I don't know that I could attribute it to. Way blasting Lara such but I'd like to discuss for a minute then there's only resolution by only loaded talk from day one it was only out of fact would you like to start up again or use a little ground of zoning in the in the United States yes. There's only basically is a tool which is used to provide for the proper use of land and in its use it is for the orderly development of a community. I could go back as I used to in my classes when I taught city planning go back to early days dealing with the earliest talisman of cities showing how cities grow and how from a walled city we spread and how the various services were adjunct to the city the churches the stores that were necessary the protective devices the motes and whatnot I won't do that here because we don't have time but I will say this that New York City was a pioneer in in the creation and establishment of a zoning resolution while other communities in Europe and elsewhere did have isolated instances of where they sought to control building types and buildings themselves there was no comprehensive zoning resolution which dealt with land use as such and I'll develop that a bit later as well as the hype to which buildings could go. And the area of a lot that could be covered by a building which creates a density in an area it wasn't until one hundred sixteen and up in the lot time you could have. All incompatible uses you can have a beautiful mansion type home for one family in Mexico and have a candy store next to that have a. For six family house and like that twenty family house we didn't set up zoning districts in nine hundred sixteen when it became apparent that unless the city acted we would be faced with a situation where tall buildings well over shattering short buildings and it originated down here because of the equitable building which was casting a shadow there was no control on height and it was casting a shadow so that every other building was working in darkness in the in the area of the building itself that was recognized as something had to be done about the controlling building heights when that the commission was appointed back in one thousand fourteen. Hearings were held in the time a nation made then that a comprehensive zoning resolution was absolutely necessary for the Audley development of the city of New York and to protect the investments of the people who are building to give security to those who had homes from the invasions of non-compatible uses so that in one hundred sixteen after the report of this commission was made available the Board of Estimate and apportionment as it was known at that time adopted the first dawning resolution that was nine hundred sixteen that was almost fifty years ago. And it was a forerunner of all resolutions in this country since then there isn't a major city that didn't follow the city in the Oct there isn't a hamlet that than follow you may still have certain small places that have no zoning resolution the New York is the pioneer room zoning reggae most comprehensive zoning regs resolutions Yes Now the resolution itself is a set up zoning district they dealt with land use by that I mean what could be usual land for a lot of a commercial the beautiful residential loose lot come my show us manufacturing in other words we didn't want that incompatible uses because once you deal with incompatible uses you destroy the values of existing uses one has a bad effect on the other Secondly we sought to control the height to which buildings could go and third we sought to control the area of the lot in which a building stood so that you couldn't cover one hundred percent and have no side yard and have no real yard and had no proper light net and deprive your neighbor of on both sides of the and even to the rear light in there because you occupied one hundred percent of your plot we established the zoning resolution the city in one hundred sixteen and from then on it on the went the usual tests that the time imposes on statutes changes and techniques of building changes and concepts the concept of super blocks all of these had an impact on his own resolution and by oh I suppose after almost thirty years of cells on agr as allusion became obsolete and I recall when I was a member the lot of Bob and I represented the. Building the pop and I represented the border stands appeals dealing with the resolution. I know the document that I know the back of my hand but my own mind I was convinced it was obsolete there was a paste pot Jabaliya adding amendments to it and I should add at the same time so that the people would have a greater understanding this document is only resolution consist of two things One is the text of a resolution which says what you can do with your land how you can use you land and setting up all the administrative controls that had nothing to do with the building code because the building code deals with the materials and the manner in which the building is a put up design was illusion does not deal with that then in addition to the zoning resolution we had what we call zoning maps so that the entire city in the OP was owned we had cited five what we call thirty five sectional maps so the entire city of New York was owned and you could pick up a map and tie into the area in which you lived point to the lock which you owned and this would tell you how you could use that lot with this one lot the use for mobile dealing could only be used for one family house could it be used for a row house or could it only be used for manufacturing or could it be used for commercial purposes but a retail store in that or moving back out what about variances Well I'll get to that is a and then we have another map which showed how high you could go with that building and there's still a side map showing you how much land you can occupy So in effect we had three hundred five maps three times thirty five times well over the years it was found that this was a very undesirable thing and I recall in one nine hundred forty is a member of the commission. Our other nineteen of thirty nine is a member lot of Palmer working on a face comprehensive result a change in the rezoning and we didn't succeed and then later on in one teen forty nine fifty we hired some consultants. And here too it didn't go anyplace and it wasn't until this last attempt we made that. Changing amending in its entirety the zoning resolution that we succeeded in the became effective on December fifteenth one thousand nine hundred sixty one now there's no zoning resolution sought to make a number of changes. One would try to reduce the densities under the old zoning resolution you're going on about population dopy lation the chalets under the old zoning Resolution fifty five million people could have occupied New York City by residential use I don't know whether recognizing that this was create too great a density required too many services by one hundred eleven and. That we then set up zoning districts with densities which would pull I'd put twelve million people money on the market remember people that could live were residing on the floor under the existing zoning but that doesn't prevent us the essay from upping the density from taking areas where there are low densities now and changing and of amid a higher density if the need existed for. But we recognize that it didn't exist and people One little more open space for themselves and their families that want a little more area in which do walk around and live and work and this was necessary Secondly we found that with the new techniques of building and with the areas involved the superblocks and assembling land people were building there were no longer building on twenty five foot as they didn't in your early days and mine usual lot with twenty five one hundred well nobody builds twenty five hundred these days they assemble huge Postle maybe a block square and they're ready to build because it's much more economical to do that type of construction so with these changing techniques both in building styles and building types and in the building materials we had to change designing resolution another change we made. Was to. Try to protect people from other noxious uses so that manufacturing district we have performance standards and you would have to comply with these performance standards before you can build a particular type of building in a manufacturing do district but we want to stop further just as we have protected residential districts from the invasion of nonresidential uses We have a new resolution protected manufacturing that that from the invasion of residential uses so we prohibit Now the building of any residential use except already those already in existence from invading a area zone for manufacturing so interesting I don't think we're really critical knowledge we thought we've got to protect the investment that a manufacturer makes because over the years I myself of prosecuted nuisance cases against people who had a right to manufacture whether well but by the same token people had a right to buy a home and that this thing and this person a bought a home took the view that my home is my castle and my neighbor has making either too much noise or what he's doing is creating obnoxious older or if it's a dry cleaning business the tumblers are vibrating my home and therefore brought them into caught on the old common law nuisance and this was this created a non safe and insecure situation itself odd as entrepreneurs are concerned who want to didn't gauge in manufacturing so Nahla protect that use against the invasion of a residential use we have delineated these areas and said You can't build new residences in these manufacturing uses or in the Seattle area which is often an Automotive News area with heavy uses similar to I don't know what about these variances and now every year we have a contract recognizing that. Nothing can be. Inflexible and. It was necessary to have a safety valve so when the original resolution was adopted in one thousand and sixteen that was created the board of appeals. So that the individual who owned a piece of land that just didn't fit into the groove in which it was on would have an opportunity to go to the borders that the peels Nonna presentation aside never Bantry matters the board was empowered that's a different agency the city planning commission to grant what we call a variance from the strict adherence or the strict letter of the law was on line with the board of students on the payroll conversion and all of the planning that was for the planning committee if they were to grant the nuff variances. And improperly so it could in effect excuse me it could in effect sometimes destroy a concept of mapping that we made that the Planning Commission had that's why we make a distinction and the Planning Commission will undertake jurisdiction in in planning matters dealing with areas so if somebody comes to the Planning Commission to seek the map change because they want to put a use into the particular area which prohibits such use and if it deals with a twenty five foot automatically we say this isn't a planning matter basically this is this involves your own individual use of your property why don't you go to the board of standards appeals and we've set up site and criteria in the zoning resolution by which the board of standards is bound in granting a variance and the board today operates. On a much stricter criteria than they did on the old resolution when I only have a moment or so in this particular program crucial blasting but been a great deal of discussion in the past lately about the fact that some of the provisions of the zone resolution and so the holding back construction removes some terms having an effect on employment would you want to comment on this very brief Yes I well as in all instances in which. A new statute replaces an old one there are vested rights there are transitional things that must be taken care of the old grandfather clauses that we law. Yes because of all these things had to because that is when the new resolution was adopted in January in the Sambo fifty's and became effective rather December fifteenth and one thousand nine hundred fifty one what we did at that time with to provide a grace period so those people who had plans on file would not be deprived of the rights that they had acquired by having their plans on file and they could build under the old resolution which in many instances allowed for a more liberal type of density a more liberal type of building. Recognizing that fact we granted an extension of time a grace period while on this particular moment Fred we're going to take a leave I hope you'll come back with us again because we promise most fascinating tour and we hope that you'll join us again and really close I've just grabbed the seventh I'd like to come back and look forward to seeing you.