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Welcome to another edition of black man in America presented by your city station in cooperation with the city's commission on human rights these programs are broadcast Tuesday afternoons at five on W. N.Y.C. F.M. ninety three point nine mega cycles and Tuesday evenings at nine on W A Y C eight hundred thirty killer cycles here now to tell you more about this important series is our moderator Good evening this is Thomas H. Alan deputy executive director of The New York City Commission on Human Rights and I'm here to bring you another in the series the black man in America devoted as the title states to examining the history and life of African-Americans and the contributions they have made and are making to the material cultural and spiritual wealth of this country this includes all of living not simply the civil rights issues we see in the headlines tonight's guest is George Metcalf author of blot profiles published by McGraw Hill bought profiles is a compilation of biographers of eleven black men and women from how yet Tubman to the light Martin Luther King Jr persons who devoted their lives to the struggle for racial equality and justice the book is based on painstaking research and wherever possible on interviews with the subjects themselves Mr Metcalf is a former state senator from New York between one thousand nine hundred fifty one and one nine hundred sixty five Mr Metcalf sponsored an outstanding series of bills in the fields of civil rights and public health he co-sponsored fair housing laws where the Senate Assemblyman Bertram Baker of Brooklyn that formed the basis for legislation of this type and acted throughout the United States. He pioneered health insurance legislation and coax bonds to New York State's basic law on narcotics addict addiction in one nine hundred sixty five Mr Metcalf withdrew as a candidate for reelection in order to devote more time to writing and to the cause of fighting for racial justice and that he was a lock that president of the National Committee Against Discrimination and housing Good evening. Mr Metcalf It's a pleasure to have you on with us it's a pleasure to be here Mr Allen. Mr Metcalf I remember you as a legislator I'll certainly met cab bake a bell as I recall that was the housing bill and certainly had great effect on my life and I'm sure you don't want this but I'm most appreciative of all that you know you were able to do allegedly you know now you moved from the role of in that role to the role of an author a writer and I'm delighted to to know this was a strange question difficult for you well not too difficult because I'm a newspaper man by profession and I've written a column for years for our local paper. I say I've just read parts of black profiles and very interesting way and I'll just read a little bit of it and him when Rosa Parks and whenever we mention Rosa Parks of cause I think of Martin Luther King and the movement that began and Alabama and Rosa Parks refused to surrender her seat to a white passion John an Alabama Boston one nine hundred fifty five the black revolt against white intransigence burst forth as all the world now knows the black community of Montgomery boycott it that bus line for all year until it was forced to abandon segregated seating the man who led his people to this victory the first I have ever won in the South was the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr And then on to say but long before I have a Dr King or Rosa Parks was born countless black men and women had been struggling heart and soul against racial injustice this book details the lives of eleven lot Keros and herons I'm very pleased when I read that a lot of pot because all too often today it's felt that the black movement sent began in the maybe late sixty's and yet you know I know that it began not just in fifty five but back to as you have mentioned in your book how you Tubman. Mr Metcalf do you want to just talk a bit about some of the things in your book some of the lives that you discussed and he well I think one of the things that. Perhaps doesn't come out so clearly in the book but I think it's one of the things that we should recognize today in and that is that throughout the history of black America there have been two streams so to speak one of them wanting to. Integrate or emulate the white population and the other to separate art of form what is called today Black Power many people think that black power for instance is something that is new it is not new it's been part of the. Black program or Negro program for at least a century the problem of course has been that those Negro leaders who represented this point of view were largely shot of the way because they were not trying to. Copy and follow the white part of the population and therefore because the whites were the majority they would not listen to them of course I think the the real apostle of black power so to speak is William E. B. Dubois who undoubtedly at least in my mind was one of the truly remarkable people of this country and I think one of the sad things is that so many members of the white society are unfamiliar completely with what Dubois wrote and what he stood for and what he tried to do and of course he himself was a rather ambivalent character he went from trying to be like the whites and became disillusioned and frustrated and then became a part of the Black Power group but it's it's a fascinating study and I think that people in the in the majority of this country ought to themselves to find out what is the history of black America. I think the reason the genesis of this book the reason that I began to write in the first place was that I sat in a Southern church one time several years ago and I heard the pastor tell about the courage of Americans. And this was at the height of the civil rights struggle and he failed to mention one black American and I thought this was a disgrace and that something should be done about it and this is one of the reason I wrote this Well I'm very happy you sat in that chart church and I'm happy that you wrote those but. While in Mississippi I work fail and I was with them double a C.P. for a while I worked with many people in the black community who really were. Leaders and shall we say a blot Paul movement as you say this this began much before present day do you think perhaps the young people today are getting more support than the. Persons of earlier years as Dr the boys and. You know yes they are getting far more support I had in a sense perhaps. Well I think the laws and. Protect people today where they didn't protect their rights twenty years ago I'm interested were you in Mississippi at the time of the Medgar Evers was just on the way after. I had met at Medgar. While in the northern communities you know he often traveled to the Muslim community has and he was killed in one nine hundred sixty three in Jackson and I went to Jackson and other parts of Mississippi in one nine hundred sixty fall and worked during the summer that year and then again at a later time I know his brother quite well I had to I worked with his brother oh yes a separate I met him when I went down to Jackson but I bring that up because in my mind Medgar Evers' was one of the. Real personalities and you talk about my dad as you know Brooke well guess this is one of the profiles you want to go into a little more about well I was because I knew him but not by know you you know well I wanted to get the flavor of Medgar Evers and the cars I went to lunch St and in the NE A.C.P. headquarters the office he had the one that Charles had Erica ready with that location yes went in the big assembly hall where they held a funeral and then I was quite interested in finding out about his home itself where he was assassinated so I went out there and I stood right there at the place where the killer must have stood when he shot Evers when he came home that last night i same now that was one thing I did not do I know Mrs. Quite well my only evidence yes I saw her in California Yes she lives and Claremont and I fele person yes she certainly is and the three children I remember them as children because I met them then and sixty three and four and they were all tots then but I'm young man and young women now and yeah the young woman and the young men now but I was a bit reluctant to go out to the house although I spent considerable time there because I've been very close to Marley and something I couldn't bring myself to do I understand by. Mega certainly was a great man and I've had long talks with Marlee even longer talks and I had with mad about the days that they spent in Mississippi but that little town by you is that the name they all black town if you had of that you know I was in the delta and many years ago when they first married Matt Good took a job she describes him as and I don't want to talk about things that you could very well talk about with the audience. She describes him as a man who was always an activist militant whatever you wish to call him and they went to live in this little town mound bayou and he worked I believe as I'm sure and sure it's Man Yes and she had to remain behind he traveled throughout the state and she talked about those difficult. Then he became involved in civil rights activism and W.C. paying her of I think Molly had basically braced herself for. What finally happened because she received so many calls all the time and there's a husband this is one of the tragic things I both Medgar Evers' and Martin Luther King I think their wives had steeled themselves for some time to the possibility which more and more became a likelihood of their being killed yes yes because. Many of us who are not acquainted with the personal details of the lives of the people in your book. We simply don't know about some of them and I'm almost ashamed to say it because I am a Negro but from time to time I certainly have picked it up but there was nothing in history books that would have given me those when I was in school you've already talked a bit about men have a Jew like to just mention some of the others I know Senator Brooke we were in school together and you were yes he's a very. Very warm personality and a very intelligent person he represents. In my way of thinking the the joining of white and black power together. The kind of joining that eventually I think will well have to take place if if the United States doesn't just come apart at the seams. He of course is not the darling of some of the Black Power groups for this reason. But he is a great person I was very much. Taken by Sir good marshal I think he's one of the really. Top lawyers of course he's one of the top lawyers and I state but as as a person as a man he is really a giant And of course Roy Wilkins I don't have to you about Roy You don't have to say one word out of the if you were mad and I yes I will be very good but socially there's a giant socially. And I was very fond of Jackie Robbins and actually I think that sports probably can eliminate much of the abrasion between whites and blacks perhaps more than anything because when people play together on a field or on a tennis court or they're not tennis career but a basketball court they have to come together when you take the ball on a football field if if you're white and there's a black man in front of you the black man isn't going to say well no I'm not going to break interference because there's a white man carrying the ball they have to get together and I think somehow if the United States can realize this that to be a great country blacks and whites have to work together. Then we've accomplished something and I think people that take part in sports understand this better than any other group so I was very very taken by Jackie Rahm's and I must America the ones who are alive you you know them all all certain you've known them did you interview them personally and for some of them I want to Detroit and saw Rosa Parks she where she lives in Detroit and yes I worked for the congressman there I say and very delightful person Harriet Tubman then I think you'd be interested in this she's a native of my home city that's where she lived and where was New York I say and of course she. She had tremendous courage it's almost impossible to visualize. What she went through bringing slaves North hiding them at night getting them to Canada and I'm going back and getting some more because. There was a price on her head all the time Oh yes and if they'd ever caught her they would have hung or worse. You mean. She's saddled and yes she's bought a piece of land from when you made story who was secretary of state Lincoln's cabinet bought Alaska and he lived in Auburn and sold Harriet Tubman a piece of land and she built a house there and lived there and thought so now and then die until nine hundred thirteen Well now this is really the cause I know all about how it was a boy my mother this was one of the tragedies I'm quite. Aware of what the young blacks and even the young whites are saying today that there must be inclusion of the negro in the black and American history and I go beyond that the American and the and so on. I was deprived of this basically my mother was one who loved to read and she would give me a great deal of information about black people that I would not have had just by going to classes you know as this was not included in and the curriculum. She read to me about how you Tom and my father would prefer reading the comic to me you know the Sunday morning kind of thing but I didn't I knew that she was certainly involved in the on the ground but this is very interesting that to learn that she settled in Albany New York it's a matter of fact another a little sidebar on Harriet in the NE A.C.P. headquarters you know there's a group of people and a little statue if you come in the door you get all this they ask cos it's a hurried tub and it's not so you know she's talking to and Greenleaf Whittier and Emerson and one other one I can remember. And then there are people that you no doubt know who knew her you know does and actually nine hundred thirteen actually she was a great friend of John Brown's called him General Brown all the time I see and actually was on the way. At Harper's Ferry when the raid took place she was going to be part of the raid. But she didn't get there like you made an interesting statement about. People involved in sport you were referring to Jackie Robinson and I quite agree with you that. People involved and sports both black and white. Have to work cooperatively have to work together and I often times you get priceless statements from both sides and the men I have offended had to two men and women and and spots and also in show business I find that there is less prejudice they seem to be able to work together and the ones that I've known and show business seem to have great respect for the other's talent and ability. People involved in sports very similar just recently and we've all heard this name he's a white youngster is Joe will a name you heard of Joe Well a native of cost and I often read entrusting stars about this young man on the sports page. I know he's from. Pennsylvania and from. Average background nothing affluent about his background but they say that he's brought about a real harmonious feeling among his teammates those blacks who were inclined to. In the locker room remain over to the side and those whites who remained of what he seems to have brought them all together. I think this is this is great this kind of thing maybe one of these days you want to write about gel well I am a kind of things that he's doing. A lot in the lines of human relations and I don't know if he's obviously doing it just this is a part of a young man well selling boards done have sons. Something should be done in that area you're absolutely right right but do you categorically and to some of the philosophers of some of these leaders and and blot profiles on maybe I'd like to read some of the thoughts of some of them well no I think there for most of these various people that I selected with the exception of Boyce were basically activists and they weren't trying to. Pose a philosophy or present one I think what they wanted to do was to make it possible for black Americans to enjoy America and that they had done so much to make America succeed and that it was only right and proper that they should have a chance to enjoy it through jobs through better education through employment and so forth I think that's the that's the number one. Thing that these people did of course you have to realize that this book was written. Between a year and two years ago. It was it wasn't out on the stands just as fast as I had hoped it would be and as a result some of the people that I have talked about philosophy and are people that. I would perhaps add to the list today. I have just finished reading a compilation of essays on black power for instance and. I'm very impressed by what some of these individuals say philosophically the need for. Some sort of power being taken by blacks before they themselves. Deal on a peer basis or on an equal basis with whites. That you can have all the rights that you want that these men and women fought for and it may now mean so much simply because the they cannot speak with the authority that they want to and I think one of the things that we have to see in the next five years is just how this power is going to flow into the hands of black people. I'm not certain for instance that it is just a matter of building banks that are operated by blacks or businesses or this or that or the other thing because when it's all said and done it may be too small a part of America to be substantial it may be that blacks must take power from whites period maybe they have to go into white banks for instance have become officers become directors maybe they have to go into businesses white businesses and take a part there we don't know yet but this is one of the things that have to be watched and we're in a very fluid state in this country but I'm certain more that I read about the relationship between blacks and whites in this country that there has to be a change in the amount of authority and the participation. Of blacks in the US system before we're going to be able to solve many of the problems that confront us yes now some of the people that you included. I doubt I am sure they would all say the activists and I agree with you of of a all activist someone not necessarily black power advocates. I can't speak for all royal welcomes but I know the the legal approach has been the one full of the N.W. C.P. through yes and also attempting to work together. Through Brotherhood do you fail that the do you feel that this this method has a fail completely and kind of oh no no I wouldn't say that at all I think it has been very necessary we wouldn't even be talking about the segregation of schools women for Thurgood Marshall and those who work with them. We wouldn't be thinking about open housing if we hadn't had laws that were enacted No I think this is all basic I think you have to have this is a backdrop Yes that you can't you have to have your career secure before you can move ahead but that's taken place and I don't think it was a failure I think we expected too much I think we thought that once these laws were passed everything was going to be a panacea Yes and I don't think this is what happened and I don't think it will happen I think we have to go on from here and I think that two things have to happen beyond everything else I think the whites have to begin voluntarily giving up some of their power. They have to be able to say you know come on in here join the family and take some of this power that I have your in my hand you take it you see what you can do with it I don't need all this I've had it yes but I don't need this you take it and you do something with it. I think once that this begins to happen I think we're going to see a noose situation this country but to go back to your original question I don't think this. Means that the civil rights movement was Peter useless or fruitless or it was frustrating but I think was necessary it seems that today the younger people both black and white. And I'm sure you have occasion to be among the young are quite disenchanted and what had been done in the past I quite agree with you Mr Metcalf that we needed that base thing the laws and certainly these days. I notice that some of the young people that I've talked to feel that we should get away as they say from the old bag of brotherhood I think we have to realize that there's got to be mutual respect men have to respect men and I don't think that any of us has been and Anyway wasteful What do you attribute this to on the part of the young people restlessness all they just see that we have abject poverty today and the blocks of people who are living in poverty and and they don't want to be able to move out of it I don't want to oversimplify it but I think that it's a basic to the fact that in any revolution the minute it starts the people who begin are dissatisfied what's happened therefore I think this is inevitable I don't see any I think that there are excesses and I think everybody would have to admit that but the primary premise that there is a need for use to move out. And to disavow much of what's gone before I think is just natural I think it's healthy Oh yes I quite agree and see how thing I'm Mr Metcalf I haven't asked any personal questions and it's not really right to spring it on you but do you intend to return to politics I'm asked the fact that you are involved I've never met you before but as I said at the outset some of the bills that you sponsored so necessary my reason for asking this question is because I see a trend toward conservatism and and Albany and other places I'm thinking of just a couple of days ago the bussing bill and so on and this bothers me Well it bothers me to parse this may have had a little bit to do. My leaving the picture of the time but. In any event to answer your question no I don't anticipate getting into politics again I think the greatest thing that we can do is to try and influence public opinion and I think I can do more writing and I can in politics fine well thank you so much Mr George on Metcalf for being my guest this evening Mr Metcalf is the author of Black profiles published by McGraw Hill and this is the end of our program for the evening and Thomas Allen wishing all of you good night we welcome your comments on these programs and your cards and letters to black men in America W N Y C New York one hundred zero seven like men in America is a feature presentation of your city station broadcast in cooperation with the New York City Commission on Human Rights.