Title: Patricia Marx Interviews:Gunter Grass
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Lighted to have as my guest today the German author Mr Going to grass. Who is considered by
many to be the foremost novelist of the post-war world. Author of The Tin
Drum cat and
mouse and the soon to be translated third novel. Mr Grass is also a graphic
artist sculptor playwright and poet. Here to assist with the
interview and any translating which may be needed is Mr John Simon who is still a critic of the
Hudson review and has written a critique of Mr grass' novel The Tin Drum for the
Partisan Review.
This because you're thirty six years old now and I understand that between the war and today you
lived a very colorful and varied life. I wonder if you tell us of the sings you
did
I don't know if you want to qualify or not but I was asked off as a white hat.
Because about my school wasn't finished and I had to look for some
profession and then I learned and.
I worked on the in a mine in and after
I learned. Cemetery I was stone mason.
The last Greystones for people and then I learned and
I ask all of this Rudolf and after but some
Burnell and about one year one and a half year was a dress
drama and I think that's all he
had time. How did you live through your writing or through these kind
of
Vocations Yes I always did most of Gaza sculpture drawings and
writing and how did you support yourself up through
the years to my age of twenty six and never sought about.
Publishing something I just did
it and then I was married
and then I saw trust. Perhaps it's
possible to publish something and from just time becomes more and more important for
me to write something and put some sings together.
But this can. Change. Also on the next day here.
Start again with a sculpture or another profession I don't
know you perhaps best known as a novelist. I wonder where you place
the greatest importance and what part of your work as a novelist or the other things that you
do I think for me the most important thing is partly the motifs
of novels you can see and in my poetry and
prose poems to see
about everything that's happening in this
novel some thing also is a poem and it starts
there was at last another form. Social as a
sings in writing poems and writing no votes but the
same question for me. Does this mean that the imagery that you use in your poetry. Appears
later in your novels. Yes some part and sings in poetry also
and in the novice and for me just afterward
because some language was you can say destroyed
perhaps and that was not only my.
To rebuild the language and to work with us language also for as a
poet just after as a warm dry many it was the same question and this was it.
Perhaps from forty five to fifty five this
time the most important things happened from Germany and literary life it was in poetry.
It's not about no one outside of Germany but
for ourselves now writing
novelists this time was very important. It's a basement
of everything happening now one from
another the basement is this what has.
Has been this time in poetry. What do you feel it was poetry first and then the
novel for poetry you need more discipline and and and.
As it has a light inside you see it in
poetry and the novel. You can you can you can
hide it perhaps something else but that. If your book is poetry that's a good discipline
and last was a situation after the war that was.
The
question discussing say that the German language had to be rebuilt.
How do you go about rebuilding a language. Where do you begin.
Now you have to prove all those expressions.
We had just after the war perhaps and sort of Delphic the language the language of high tech or
something
as full of substantive and German
language a very long and very empty and you have
to try of this specialists
and this was the job I had to do for myself with the
language and
poetry. To look to the facts and to see
what are facts and what are the subjects and but this language.
You were writing is realistic. And yet it is still with the
most fantastic imaginings. And I wonder what you mean when you say your writing is realistic
because I'm believing that fantastic things are part of realistic things all
this together. That's from your reality fantastic sayings and so
yes people call realistic
things. Well when you say that both the fantastic and the
stocks are real is one more real than the other or are they real in different
ways and you see in the ten lines. Sometimes I begin
trapped in a so-called realistic
way and from one senses as a
as changing in a fantastic about the end it's coming back
and so called When I left that world.
All this working for me to get as a. To show. The sings
I I would like to show I need but
was also the siblings. And I bring this
out and I say more important and Sauza all working together for me.
The question is to grouse when the fantastical appears in your
work is does it appear merely as a
symbol. Or an equivalent to something or is
it something that you think you might meet some they are around the corner of a street you're walking
on is it to be taken almost a collection of symbols that
bows disciplines the fantastic and generous to approving each other.
And if I write in a fantastic
way. I always try to make
it serious
social facts and to prove this is this
is fantastic sings.
It's a don't fly away.
How does this fantastic prove the
real. And the set in the same in that yes
it's in the words and
it's if I perhaps I show people like going.
By by bus
of the railways just in the right mystical way. And then.
I show that's only one possibility to show as a same
way but also the saying was it was over and attended on
then people are jumping from the front to Palau.
Yes and that's a picture of a
judgement and after those pictures a reality is coming back and proving is
this and then I have. The facts are one zero on just how
well I need afterwards. Listen I mean
with the one side is quite troubling
and. Provings the other side
you use long lists of technological and almost scientific descriptions
of say the tomb stone carving why in such a labyrinth detail.
I see for me the picture I have I would like to show and I don't have
to try it again and again. Until I have the feeling
now that's a picture.
I would like to show and for all this I need just flag which insists this bear up
sings and the shoulder does perhaps coming from from from
my sculpture profession to show everything from all
sides to show not only in one
perspective the sort from from every side and for this and needs
is perhaps a monster of words
and once the lines.
What was the inspiration for the idea of after the hero of the.
Well that's a long story seven years before I started to write downs a
novel I had tried to write the poem I was just I was
in Paris first time it was really a long and bad
poem I wrote about. Holy man
standing on a quantum. Like an early Christian times.
And but this was and modern times it was wasn't a religion man standing on a
quantum amazing build up his column by himself and look here's what it's from
this point and described his of of but it was
so static for another. And so
I shamed just perspective from the column for down under the desk.
It was not a static point of view it was a moving
and could work was as a signature.
It was one side of the being as I
was also years ago I saw. In
the family. Yeah. The boy Officer years.
Between But I want a person speaking about something.
And he has a
drum and he didn't take care of grown up people he
always runs
around. And if
a grown up person speaks to him he
didn't give any sign of interest. He
only had has his drama that was astonishing thing for me. And
all just again builds up the figures of what's come out so I that's saying sell but
I don't know
really you definitely don't intend I imagine these things to be taken
as symbols as this effects on me as
if. I think it's not possible for
me to begin to start writing a book or his services opinion now
I want to make somebody saw something that's doing just to have
a symbolistic book afterwards but not that novel.
Perhaps the deformity is asking cannot be taken as a fixed symbol but
I wonder why after the artist the drummer is deformed and
is distracted. So very much of his activity results
instructions while he's living in this pain mess and he's If you want a mirror
or office time but. Not them and.
A normal liver or
marrow you see life you see into so perhaps this.
And this way he's giving back his work. The middle way
and in this way he also he is very complex
and
what I mean that's all of his time is coming together and
has place in his hunchback but it's been said that the grotesque is the
symbol of this. Do you feel this is too. I don't
understand all of this as this is looking for a symbol
of
protests things but got to go test the world has nothing to do with symbols.
Perhaps the word symbol there was ill advised but that the girl test is the
dominant characteristic about age would you say
that yes that's one one part
yes one possible test. But it's always changing C.R.
Saltire Yes it's quite another
thing. And.
There are also some chapters in September.
The beginning perhaps of self suppose the post office. It's
quite another discipline to write a chapter and I'm changing
very often a
style from protesters up here until around I stick
this description or something out and thence coming back to
grotesque and the as over the last chapter also first the concept and
one that's the trumpet man.
Sets from farmhouse Rondell so vases. The motives coming
back and coming back again that's quite a lot of things and I
protest same.
But there is a great deal of the good test. In the novel. Do you
yourself view the world in this way or is this again mirroring in the
distorted way the way the world you know I'm not so that's necessary.
And that's one one way for me to show is
this was it was a point of view of the scum I thought
and that's and you know ws my last novel.
The story. Person's telling the story and it
was sweet. Different more or less protest and
and all just three together
makes much of a lot of credit miles to the meter but
that's my person perhaps but I can say that. That's my point of view to
see the.
Use the image that Oscar reflects the world as a concave
mirror would reflect the world. Why bother. Why have the mirror
distorting the world.
Yes because to write today
a novel.
And for me if it's a question for me to write a novel. I
need this things to socialize or.
Can
we think why.
Because that was the other sexed up like us God has done
that this is that and I can can do it was the sayings and.
I have to look for my own
forms.
Will it be impossible for an artist today do you think to use an ordinary mirror that
is neither convex not concave
I never have seen an origin of him or so on more or less common
car. Or convex. And for me it's common car for mirrors
that something not out of Sirte.
Don't need that I invent him he is he is and I will vote and I
only have to use him. That's nothing
extraordinary after is a character who seems to
be utterly indifferent and not touched by human emotions when his
mother dies he's only sorry because she won't take him out anymore to the shop or somewhere.
Do you feel that this indifference is again way into parolees today. Why is
he so indifferent.
Every people is like like one stanza sings more or less and and attacked off Oscar.
At this perhaps more than another people. But this is the essence of the motives are the
same and this more personally I put a lot of not just together as
a content trait.
This things
and I don't like just concave mirror ears.
Or skies not nothing exceptionally this is also our world.
I sing so why do you link ascared with Jesus
after refers to himself as asking Jesus the child of indifference with the child of love.
Yes this is difficult to explain because he is playing
with symbols.
Yes there are no symbols in but he is but because he's in his
word and around him all everyone everywhere are symbols as Jesus
and all the things you get from grown up person and his playing was
a sings these Look going to church and you see that all those years of grass and
this edge has his
size and his below
eyes and the first the first sortie has to change
that's why I am not Jesus and. He's always
playing with a sings and then. After he begins us playing and
then after some times become serious.
He actually says to the statue of the child Jesus he says
you bastard I hate you you annoy your hocus pocus this doesn't sound like
playing.
Yes After some thought he is thriving until we are yes but the
playing a bad way perhaps yes easy is. Struggling with him
taught
us like to buy. Yes.
The same agent the same size.
And he's angry about it because you don't like to make
a move to the shoulder wonder something else in my life
and none seem to fascinate you both. In your painting and your work
what fascination do they hold for
you and I was out yes that's coming from my drawings are black and white as far
as black and white to persons who can make nice drawings.
It's very difficult to make interview mad it was me because I always try to
hide. I mistrust and
wonder what progress your newest novel represents over the ones you've written
before I don't believe in progress unless there as I don't see the possibility to
make progress you can make it but at some business. I don't believe this to will
but in literature I don't see any way to make progress and for
me it's every book second or
cert trying.
And the waiters say the same things
but because I had the feeling of the last trying it was not
good
enough and and their only concern shows a sings
in another way from the other
point.
And that I can say that's a progress. Say in the hours a sentence
about doesn't mean the tenor on Mars that's more fraud or more close.
But that's another question that's a progress are not.
It's been said that the post one German novelist
central focuses on coming to grips with the past of the world wars.
Do you feel that your book is particularly rooted in the German past or does it have
an application. It's much broader.
Also German novelist. All different you see and are
coming from from different points and.
Between them this is my my my trying that sets one
one point of view and the owners and trying the scenes in another way and
the tool and cupping tool and.
Perhaps
by novice I was a. Last offers of was a first trying
to shoulder and. In
a great depend on Raman the biggest panorama from.
And what I tried again was taught to write on a chronological. Way.
I cut off phrases.
Yeah look into the yeah. And this is a
discipline of radio plays perhaps as montage
of the station itself novel of the flashback.
I don't work with a station like because I think it's good
for for regular play or something that's. Once in
my opinion do what. And that's a reason to have books on law
that
requires actual yes as
in the past yes I really thought in the beginning of the century and dying slowly
slowly slowly. That the spot difference
between other authors.
But I wonder to what degree you feel this convex or concave mirror reflects
Jimminy and is located and rooted in the experience of
the World War and to what degree is a much broader reflection of Western
civilization today.
This I don't know yes I only have as a novel I have to deal with Germany
and pass time in Germany but now I see that as a
people not living in Germany also interested. Concave
mirrors and
perhaps at some other lands and.
Perhaps America or France the same question about this I
didn't know
before you got you your works are
almost untranslatable it's very difficult to do justice to them in another language.
I wonder how you feel about having and translate into other languages and how satisfied
you are with the translations from what you could tell.
As I only saw says it is English in the French
translation.
And I sick if it's possible to translate as purposes but both translations are well
done and as Bob was both translators asked me
questions answered.
And that's all what I can do and it's another
sign that I'm always astonished that people outside
of Germany and thrust of the spokes and that and never saw this before.
And the sad thing I don't have the time
to be so much interested. As translations. I have to write
another book after the slots another
book. And just have a
book border in mind my son in but I don't know I'm just translations to
present sometimes in the morning I'm looking at
that
as a big clue just to me to see a lot of books together. What do you working on
now I'm writing the play for
center does this also begin in the past and work forward and I
was still calling on one day on the seventeenth of you will find that I'm going
to fifty three in the news but I'm like
yes I just. Revolution's
I remember now you don't see
him and certainly that's past time yes that's eleven years ago.
Back then but I don't perhaps
that's.
For interest. Yes today and now we have a national holiday off
this revolution this. I'm happier of
illusion about this tamed if I try
to write a play.
Do you feel me suggest that the writer has an important political will to
play well as anybody else. Yes
that's the day it sings coming more and
more to guys and ginger.
If you want or not ever your site has this particular order.
He's speaking about the war not about a war if somebody is writing poems about
flower sets off of political opinion.
I wonder what your opinion is of the German play most recently to come to America
deputy Who'd.
Or has I have seen some bones as a first performance.
And just to sing it as a book of Whole Foods as a full
plate as a documentary part and I think that's an interesting book
all this
together. Because in this book you see not only as a pope you
see lots of the German enters through off group and also sings and the performance
and see it there in Germany perhaps a cut off this group
sings and there
only was a question of the
pope and I prefer as a book in this
case but a single it's not possible to show all of this together and one
performance play the play in the book is too
long I wonder is this good to mention the contemporary
right or right. Did you admire the most Other than yourself.
No I'm you see a lot on my
part of my generation that says we own saliva much
as Bob sometimes to the front of my hands and we're living to present vote on
and speaking about such
things you've been in America for a short visit I would if you have any impressions that you
might like to
mention the biggest. As for me that the traffic is
building by car accident. The driver so I slowly and.
In Germany it's perhaps.
One of his driving to help us very fast and not very often
I just don't know another thing I was very astonished as I saw a lot of people
writing was left
hand. And never seen so much. It was doing
is just so I think this question of Paul and.
He and I met
again Mr Grasso would have thank you for this interview. You've been listening
to the German writer Mr going to grad author of The Tin Drum and
Captain Miles. He's considered by many to be the foremost novelist since the war.
Thank you and goodbye for now.