[music]

Kousha Navidar: You're listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar. The Tuesday after Memorial Day is National Moving date. The date is known within the moving industry as Crazy Tuesday, the beginning of the busy moving season around the country.

Now, the effects of the pandemic have perhaps earned New York the reputation as the city that residents are maybe moving away from. In fact, the New York State Comptroller estimates that the city's population declined by just over 5% from 2020 to 2022. Still, every year, thousands of people move to New York. To finish our moving hour today, we want to hear from those of you out there right now who have recently moved to the city.

First, welcome and thank you for finding WNYC, what's brought you to New York, and how has your experience been? We're also wondering if you have any questions about adjusting to New York life. Have you seen your first rat yet? That's a question that was definitely on my mind.

To help you answer your questions, and also give some tips, I'm joined now by Jake Dobkin, a third-generation native New Yorker. Jake is Vice President of Sponsorship here at New York Public Radio. He's also the co-founder of our website, Gothamist, and author of the book, Ask a Native New Yorker: Hard-Earned Advice on Surviving and Thriving in the Big City. It's based on his popular Gothamist column that he used to write. Jake, hi, welcome to the show.

Jake Dobkin: What's up? Thanks for having me back on.

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. When did you see your first rat?

Jake Dobkin: Oh my God, probably the day I got home from the hospital. I was born in The Bronx, but my parents were living on Pacific Street in Boerum Hill, and that was when Boerum Hill was a much sketchier neighborhood. They were living in some kind of macrobiotic commune. I think the rats were probably like roommates.

Kousha Navidar: Well, listeners, if you have just moved to the city and you want to share your stories, or you just want to tell us how it's been since you moved to New York, we want to hear from you now. How has your experience been in your new home? Any stories of triumph or struggle? Any questions about New York culture that you're still trying to understand? Maybe we can help you out.

Call or text us now. The number is 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692, or you can DM us, we're on Instagram, we're on X, we're at All Of It WNYC. Have you figured out the subway yet? What brought you to the city? How has the experience been finding an apartment? 212-433-9692. Jake, from your perspective as a third-generation New Yorker, of all the places one can move to in the country, why should someone move to New York?

Jake Dobkin: Man, it's New York. I feel like greatest city in the history of the world. If I need to sell it to you, you do not need to come. We got plenty of people already. If you do want a tourist brochure, we got the greatest museums, we got the best jobs, we have the greatest variety of ethnic food, we have the most attractive coastline, great parks. What else do you need?

Kousha Navidar: Great public radio.

Jake Dobkin: Great public radio stations.

Kousha Navidar: From the outside, New York can seem like a pretty intimidating place. There's the subway, the busy sidewalks, perhaps an unwarranted "Fear of crime". How much truth do you think there is to that intimidation factor of New York City? Is it too accurate?

Jake Dobkin: No. I think New York gets a bad rap, especially the last few years, the doom loop. I don't feel like we're in a doom loop. I was biking yesterday around Red Hook and Gowanus. It was a beautiful spring day. People were out barbecuing, drinking, and I just thought to myself, "Man, what a beautiful place. How lucky am I to just get to live here?"

Kousha Navidar: Is that something that's evolved for you? Did it used to be an accurate representation for new people moving to the city or has it always been outside?

Jake Dobkin: I don't know. In the '80s or in the '70s when The Bronx was burning, there had been many times where New York was probably a pretty hairy place to move to, but the 2020s when we have a Starbucks on nearly every block, sweet greens, this is not the world's hardest place in the world to live. There are many, many more difficult spots.

Kousha Navidar: Well, let's say that someone is moving to New York, but they didn't grow up in a big city. I'm sure that their first few days here, there might be some culture shock, might be some intimidation. What advice would you give to embrace, let's say, the rougher edges of New York City life?

Jake Dobkin: First, I just got to say, it would take so much courage to move here now when like a one-bedroom costs $4,000. I would first salute their bravery or their insanity, whatever it is that gets them here. There's something that people who move here get that natives me can never have, which is to see the city with fresh eyes. To me, New York is the water and I'm the fish. You know what I mean? It's just been around me the entire time. I can appreciate it. I love it because it's my home, but I can't really see it like the way an outsider would and that must be thrilling and terrifying.

I would say just go for it and try to survive. If you can make it a year, you can probably make it the rest of your life. If not, you'll run away screaming and you'll have some really great stories for the people back home.

Kousha Navidar: What is something when you've made friends with people who had just moved to the city that they tell you like, "Oh man, this was a culture shock for me, this is something that I had to get used to"?

Jake Dobkin: The thing they always say is how fast people walk. I don't know. That's not something I've ever noticed. I guess number one tip, if you move here, just walk really fast and stay to the right and you'll probably be okay.

Kousha Navidar: Do you have other walking tips on walking etiquette that seems to be, at least for me, a huge element of what makes a New Yorker versus a tourist?

Jake Dobkin: I think you want to pick your destination and move to it with real force, because the thing that seems to annoy people the most is when somebody just stops in the middle of the street to stare up at a skyscraper or check their phone. If you're going to do that, you want to step far to the side, but not so far that you get hit by a taxi cab or something.

Kousha Navidar: Our board ops Shayna just sent this message about walking etiquette, "Don't hold hands while you're walking." Shayna, I don't know if you hate love or what, but Jake, tips on that. Should we not be holding hands when we're walking on the sidewalk?

Jake Dobkin: I've seen tourists walk in four abreast. You know what I mean? Like they're in a gang like the warriors. It's weird. Two at most. Some of our sidewalks, like the ones with stoops, I think single file might be the most polite way to go.

Kousha Navidar: Listeners, if you have just moved to New York City, we want to hear from you. We have Vice President of Sponsorship and third-generation New Yorker, Jake Dobkin. He's also the co-founder of our website, Gothamist, and author of the book Ask a Native New Yorker: Hard-Earned Advice on Surviving and Thriving in the Big City. It's not a bad book to pick up if you've just moved to New York.

If you have just moved to New York and you found WNYC, first, welcome. We want to hear from you now. How has your experience been in your new home? Do you have any stories of triumph or struggle or do you have questions about New York culture that you're still trying to understand? Maybe we can help you out. Call or text us now at 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692.

I think we'd also love to hear from people who have maybe lived here for a while, but they can remember when they first moved to New York and what that process was like for them. What they felt like they needed to discover, the moment that they felt like they were home, that this place, this city was their city. Give us a call, send us a text. Where at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC.

Jake, you had mentioned the crazy prices of apartments right now, and we know how hard it is to find an apartment, and carrying a couch up a four-floor walkup is no fun. When you think about in terms of moving and the logistics in New York as compared to other cities, what makes it uniquely difficult?

Jake Dobkin: First of all, never move. If you can avoid it, hang onto your apartment like grim death. Because, I heard all those tips you guys just got, but it's only going to save you so much stress and it's still going to be really, really probably one of the worst days of your life to move all your stuff. I don't know. To me it, it's just like getting everything first into the truck, and then the truck is going to be double-parked and the guys are going to be yelling at you because they don't know where to park and then they got to get all this stuff out of the truck and up to the apartment. Even just talking about it, I feel like my chest starting to close up. You know what I mean?

My advice is have one of your grandparents get a rent-stabilized apartment like in the early 1960s and then inherit it so that not only do you not have to move, your kids don't have to move.

Kousha Navidar: Oh, I'll just get right on that. Of course, what about if you don't have a grandparent that can give you an apartment? Do you have any suggestions that could make the experience a little easier? You heard all of the tips from the last segment. Did any pop out at you as especially helpful?

Jake Dobkin: I think the tip that-- first of all, you want to get a good apartment. Just researching on the internet is just like, who knows what kind of advice you're going to get. The best thing that I think you can do is literally ask your friends, ask around. Is one of your friends moving out of an apartment or out of a room in an apartment that you can slip in there, because that's going to make your life much easier. They'll warn you about the really weird stuff, like the rat swarm or the noise from the train, stuff that you're not going to find out about reading an ad on StreetEasy. You know what I mean?

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. Listeners, we're taking your experiences and questions about first moving to the city, especially folks who are new to the city who just recently moved here. We want to give a big welcome to everyone who just moved here. Give us a call, send us a text if you have questions or tell us just what your experience has been like so far. We are at 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. Jake, we got our first caller. This is David in Park Slope. Hey David, welcome to the show.

David: Hey, thanks. Well, I moved here in 1979. A friend said, "Be prepared sometime in the first six weeks to get a really bad cold because you're just going to get worn down by the whole thing." I've told friends that for all the years I've lived here and I think it's pretty good advice. Second tip, I know try and keep up with the pace to a degree, but don't let the city make your pace happen. You don't have to get as frenetic as everybody around you. I remember feeling like, "Wow, everybody's walking so fast," but I didn't have to walk that fast. I did have to walk to the right and not hold hands with five other people like you're a guest. Don't let other people speed you up. You can get where you're going at your own pace and be calm.

Kousha Navidar: Thank you so much for that call, David. I think that's a wonderful point. Both your points that you made are really important. Especially, be prepared to be in space with a lot of people and take care of yourself. I think that's what I hear in both of your suggestions there, David, is to take care of yourself physically and in your own pace. We've got another David from New York who I understand just moved here recently. Right, David? Welcome to the show.

David: I appreciate it.

Kousha Navidar: Oh, David, I think we've got-

David: Thank you so much.

Kousha Navidar: -you on speaker. Can you turn your radio off, please?

David: Okay. Yes.

Kousha Navidar: Thanks. David-

David: Thank you so much.

Kousha Navidar: -you just moved here, right?

David: Yes. I just moved here two months ago.

Kousha Navidar: Okay. Where did you move here from?

David: From Connecticut.

Kousha Navidar: Oh, wonderful. What's your experience been so far, living in the city?

David: Say it again?

Kousha Navidar: What has your experience been like so far living in New York City?

David: It is just kind of mixed. First of all, scary. The first time I did not have an apartment. I was staying in a hotel and then I realized not workable and then I tried Airbnb. Airbnb it was not well-kept, garbage everywhere, no parking space, sharing bathroom which I'm not used to. It was so scary, I almost ran away.

Kousha Navidar: Do you think you're going to stick around?

David: I'll stick around because now I talk to the owner of the Airbnb to get me one permanent place while I'm looking for apartment renewable every three or four months until I get the apartment so that I'll not share with anyone any amenities. That and then the parking.

Kousha Navidar: David, thank you so much. I'm going to pause you there just for time, but thank you so much. First of all, welcome to the city, and I think that, Jake, he brings up an interesting point about transitioning here. David was mentioning that he was living in an Airbnb and trying to figure things out. Do you have any advice for folks about how to get here and find an apartment before they have a place to live? Is Airbnb the thing to do? I know there's a lot of-- It's way harder to find Airbnbs nowadays, but how do you generally find people transition to find permanent housing here?

Jake Dobkin: Yes. Usually, people are going to try to find some semi-long-term rental for a month or three. Now Airbnb is no longer quite as legal as it once was to rent for just a couple of weeks. I would find a spot close to where you think you want to move, ideally where you know some people, close to the job that hopefully you secured before you moved here, because this is life on hard level. This is not going to be an easy experience. If you just arrive fresh off the bus at Port Authority with no plans, no job, no money, it's going to be extra difficult. You know what I mean? The more you can do some advanced prep or leverage those social connections, I think the easier it will be.

Kousha Navidar: We've got another text here. It says, "New New Yorker as of December. Moved from Texas. One thing that's confusing me, why New Yorkers dress for a blizzard when it's 40 to 60 degrees outside?" Oh, okay. "Other transplant friends of mine have noticed this as well." Jake, is that something you've noticed?

Jake Dobkin: Well, New Yorkers like to be prepared. Anything could happen, and it's not just the weather. You get onto that subway car and it could be 32 degrees, it could be 85 degrees, you don't know. You know what I mean? Obviously, we wear layers, the same as somebody climbing a mountain so you can be prepared for any situation.

Kousha Navidar: Yes. Prepared in any situation. That is just generally good advice if you're going to live in New York City.

Jake Dobkin: 100%.

Kousha Navidar: We've got another text here that says, "Revolving door etiquette. Enter from and exit to the right, and don't just stop when you exit, move with alacrity."

Jake Dobkin: Oh my God, that sounds like an accident waiting to happen, right? You try going left, you're just going to get smacked in the head with the door

Kousha Navidar: Folks, we're talking about moving to New York City and we want to hear from folks who have just moved to New York City. If you have an experience or you just moved here, first of all, welcome. Give us a call. We're at 212-433-9692. We got a couple more calls I want to get to here. There's Fran in East Village. Hi Fran, welcome to the show.

Fran: Hey, thanks. How are you?

Kousha Navidar: Wonderful, thanks.

Fran: I moved to New York. It'll be three years ago next month from San Francisco. I came to the city not knowing anyone, leaving a career in tech to become a writer. One of the things that most impressed me about the city was how friendly and helpful people are when you ask for help. People most of the time keep to themselves, but when you ask for help, people are actually very helpful. It happened for things as simple as getting directions when I was sort of disoriented around the city, to asking people where to find an apartment. Your guest was talking about asking friends, well, I didn't have any friends.

I asked a male person who was on his route if he knew of an opening, and he directed me to a building that I almost got. I ended up not getting that apartment, but it was just like-- In this huge city, asking a male person if he knew of openings and he knew. It's been like that for the last three years. This has been pleasant surprise after surprise on how people, when I engage with them, when I sort of break that fourth wall, people will engage and be helpful.

Kousha Navidar: Fran, thank you so much for calling. Thank you so much for choosing to move here and I'm so happy to hear that experience. It's something that I agree with you about. People here are friendly when you ask them for help. Jake, what do you think about that?

Jake Dobkin: I agree, New Yorkers love to help. They just need to be asked. You do have to break the ice a little bit because from a very early age, we're taught, Don't talk to strangers. You know what I mean? Something weird could happen." I get asked for directions all the time. I can't walk out of the office without two people asking me like, "How do I get to Grand Central?" I'm like, "You're in SoHo, and that's really far away."

Kousha Navidar: What's the right way to ask for help? Is there a right way to ask for help?

Jake Dobkin: I don't think so. I think you could just say, "Hey. How do I get to where I'm going?" I guarantee you, 9 out of 10 New Yorkers are going to know and they're going to be happy to point you in the right direction.

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. Let's go to Roman in Jersey City. Hey Roman, welcome to the show.

Roman: Hey, thank you for having me. First off, I'm a regular WNYC listener. I just wanted to say I moved from India as a blind person. The first time I moved to New York in the sense of living in Jersey City, so like 15 minutes away, it was a wonderful experience. A lot of sensory sounds such as people talking, sometimes you hear here and there stuff and dancing and a lot of smells you can smell. I called New York affectionately "My darling" because it has captivated my heart from day one and it still amazes me till today.

Kousha Navidar: Wonderful. Roman, thank you so much for that call. Even if it was just a 15-minute move, it's wonderful to be able to be in the city and be a part of it. There's a text that I want to read. "When I first moved here, I was told that you could never be a "real New Yorker" unless you were born here. Then not long before the pandemic, I talked to a man who is a fourth-generation resident of Queens. He told me that anyone who had been here for 9/11 and stayed was a real New Yorker. He said, 'I totally made the cut.' If you've survived something big here in New York, if you decided to stick it out and stay with it, you earned the title of real New Yorker. Listening to WNYC is one of the best things you can do to start to get a feel of the heartbeat of the city. I'm so grateful for all the WNYC has given me. Yes, I'm a proud sustaining member. Thanks for your great show and these great topics." Stewart from Queens.

Thank you so much, Stewart. I swear, I did not see where that text was going, but such a wonderful thing to say. I really do appreciate that. Jake, what do you think about that idea of sticking it out? Is that what makes the New Yorker a New Yorker?

Jake Dobkin: I think anyone who's been here five minutes longer than you is going to claim to be a real New Yorker, especially the natives like me, but the truth is, like the colleague said, it's a title you got to award to yourself. Some people are going to say it's the minute that you get off that bus at Port Authority or when you get that first apartment or that first job or when you survive 9/11.

Honestly, looking back the last five years, if you got through COVID and this last housing crisis, I'm inclined to be generous here and say, if you're still here, that's good enough for me, I consider you a real New Yorker, but I say, look deep in your heart. If you plan to stay here until you die, there's nothing more real than that.

Kousha Navidar: Yes, absolutely. We're talking to Jake Dobkin, the Vice President of Sponsorship at New York Public Radio. He's also the co-founder of our website, Gothamist, and author of the book Ask a Native New Yorker: Hard-Earned Advice on Surviving and Thriving in the Big City. Listeners, we're taking your calls and we're getting some really fantastic calls and texts about your experiences.

First, moving to the city. If you are a new resident of New York City, if you just moved here, we would love to hear from you. Give us a call. Tell us how your experience has been. Tell us what questions you have. Tell us what you found surprising or what you love or maybe what you don't like. We're at 212-433-9692. We have Amanda in East Village on the line. Hi, Amanda, welcome to the show.

Amanda: Hi, thank you so much. Wow, all those calls were so good. By the way, Jake, do not apply for a job at the Chamber of Commerce in New York City, please. I'm calling to say as an ancient and native New Yorker, New York really is an agglomeration of neighborhoods. Fine, we may have 8 million people here, but the neighborhood you're living in is no bigger than the town that you just moved from, and the longer you stay, the more comfortable you'll be.

One of my pieces of advice is considering that there is a dive bar on the first floor of every building in New York City, go downstairs and go to the bar. Even if you don't drink, sit there and nurse a seltzer with a twist of lime and test the joint, get to know the people. Half the people on the bar will definitely be from upstairs or down the block.

Kousha Navidar: Amanda, I'm going to pause you there just for time, but thank you so much for making that suggestion about ways to connect with people. Jake, it makes me think of the changing of evolution of these neighborhoods that we lived in. You've lived your whole life in this city, so you've seen just how much has changed over the years. I think gentrification is something really important to touch on because it's impacted so many neighborhoods. A lot of people will be moving to New York every year no matter what, so as a native New Yorker, how do you think folks moving here should think about gentrification and what their presence could mean in a certain neighborhood they choose to live in?

Jake Dobkin: I've got a lot of compassion for both the gentrified and the gentrifiers because really a gentrifier is just somebody who got pushed out of the last neighborhood and needs to find an apartment in the new one. Some good things can come with new people coming into a neighborhood, new vitality, and new restaurants, but obviously, it creates a lot of problems for the people who already live there like higher rents. Now, some of the homeowners in those new neighborhoods that are getting gentrified now have houses that are worth a lot more money, but they can't sell them because then they would have to leave and find an apartment somewhere else and yadda yadda yadda.

A lot of stress for everyone, but there's something inevitable about it. Neighborhoods have been gentrifying and and ungentrifying since the first settlers arrived in Manhattan and it will probably continue forever. There's nothing you can do except make your peace with it and try to be nice to your neighbors.

Kousha Navidar: I'm looking at the time, we got to wrap up here. First of all, thank you so much to all the callers. Jake, I want to give you just 20 seconds, how long do you think it takes for someone new to New York to not seem obviously like a recent transplant?

Jake Dobkin: I don't know. How long have you been here for?

Kousha Navidar: I first moved to America here and I came back about four years ago.

Jake Dobkin: Well, that sounds like plenty of time. I think you could seem like a real New Yorker with the right attitude in two weeks, but you'd have to have a pretty intense affect. Otherwise, I would say, if you make it a year, you're probably good enough to fit in with the rest of us.

Kousha Navidar: Well, listeners, whether you've moved here just recently, a year ago, or four years ago or longer, thank you so much for coming. Jake Dobkin, Vice President of Sponsorship at New York Public Radio and co-founder of the Gothamist, thank you for joining us.

Jake Dobkin: Thank you so much.

Kousha Navidar: That's it for today's show, but we've got so much more coming up on tomorrow's show. We've got folk icon, Judy Collins, joining us in studio to preview her PBS special, which is a live performance of her 1967 album, Wildflowers, plus basil, oregano, and thyme. Oh my, we'll talk about how to grow herbs at home. This has been All Of It. Have a great day and thanks for hanging out with us.

 

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.