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Interview with Kenneth Marshall, Program Director of HARYOU-ACT
William Doty interviews Kenneth Marshall, program director of HARYOU-ACT (Harlem Youth Opportunities Unlimited-Associated Community Teams), founded in 1962 by Kenneth Clark and Cyril DeGrasse Tyson.
Audio courtesy of the NYC Municipal Archives WNYC Collection
WNYC archives id: 150932
Municipal archives id: T697
This is a machine-generated transcript. Text is unformatted and may contain errors.
Debbie when Roy see resumes proof world of the arts weekly series produced by the Office of cultural affairs of the city of New York Robert W. don't leave until to reject. The rest of the series was dark to either be due to the executive director of the office of coal to the player is here is Dr Judy tell us about today's program. Today we're going to be concerned with how you act which is a Community Action Program and attempting to involve large numbers of the Central Harlem community and a massive self-help program on everything from the education to employment to fine arts and culture today we're concerned with the discussion of how you X. Arts and Culture program which is of special interest for our office but in and of itself and as it contributes to the overall program of the how you act where this is Mr Kenneth Marshall program director of how you act has been it's a pioneer in a veteran of the war against delinquency and part of it a man who are central to the planning of high ranks current program Mr Marshall this is a very intriguing name how you act it sounds as if it was something that had been passed by legislature would you explain what the two halves of the title. That's how you act represents the merger of the boards of two organizations Harlem Youth Opportunities unlimited that's how you and the associated community teams act now in was privileged to have. The opportunity to conduct two programs. Federally and city sponsored high you was a research and planning operation that has been for two years or more in research and planning did not go into action until July of this year last year Act from the beginning it was a kind of a demonstration project to try out such things as the domestic Peace Corps and I did the whole area of the poverty operations either some publications which describe what other titles to describe what each of these programs has been trying to do the how you document is called use in the ghetto a study of the consequences of powerlessness and then act as issue the number of the program reveals of the domestic Peace Corps program the don't volunteer Service Corps programs and I think it's very interesting to note that the study of powerlessness was basic to an action study which was a blueprint for change. In other words it wasn't just an academic matter that was written and then filed as we found is that it would be futile to come again with another study of Holland you know that has been money which was simply to be put on the shelf and forgotten so that the integrity of the stock in the second half of the stock and as a set of programs intended to correct what is set forth as the problems of home in the first document. I've read a very impressive hire you act volume it's quite quite extensive and quite thick Could you summarize this in a few words the findings of the study the same findings at least let me see how quickly I could do that yes. Remember the subtitle A study of the consequences of powerlessness and everywhere we look research is looked at whatever institution in Holland we found what and since was a kind of colonials. Situation Well if you looked at the economy of Holland it was owned by outside in the money mainly going outside the community if you looked at many of the social welfare services these were designed by people outside the community and largely administered by people who were not as conversant as many others with the specific problems and needs and hopes the size of the people so that is the underlying finding you might say not specifically with regards to social class knowledge and we know and we found of cause that Holland is. Either the highest on their to the highest of such in the cities as juvenile delinquency unwed motherhood infant mortality high school dropouts and so forth. Some of the most. To me gruesome findings for example when we looked at the educational situation we found that children in the third grade on the average. About twenty two percent performing above grade level about eleven percent below by the time they reached the sixth grade some eighty percent or more off opera forming below grade level so that you see a steady decline in plan and performance the longer they are in school the boys they perform this of course then reflected later on in the dropout rates which rise the nine hundred fifty nine graduating class junior high school class some twelve hundred odd children well I'm just five hundred three years later only four hundred had remained long enough to graduate and I values only something like forty three and an academic the plum of the others had a job the promise that as you know with the states I could get just. That's a pretty bad situation when other index which you didn't mention which I think is interesting as a Social Index although it also is in the same. It's most deplorable you would think in the face of this hopelessness that the suicide rate would be high but what was the fact that the fact there's a. Six or seven in the series of social paths knowledge is that we measured suicide was the one that was below the city known. And rightly so that is that people in Holland find other ways to commit suicide than putting a gun to their heads like narcotics. But on the geographical boundaries of the how you acts territory as far as Harlem is concerned could you describe that. Staff seven boundaries. Along with hundreds upon hundreds of Tenth Street. On the west we go up along the you know the state parks Morningside and so forth and Side Heights we do not go up on the Hill by City College or Columbia then of course on the east we come down along the River Line go and Harlem River yes to sort of bypass East Harlem Now the reason for that is deliberately East Harlem people. Desirous of designing their own project and they are well along the way and how far north as it straight would be if we go out you know the Polo Grounds will go up to about that point and say what is the population in this area so one hundred and forty three thousand people of whom I would say about ninety four percent black and what percentage are under twenty one. Under twenty one seventy one thousand now the percentages and I want to say just as I reach into the Iraq which we come to the point to where we. In some way or another reach touch every single person residing in that area we are saying that the call you programs not demonstration projects not experimental projects represents if we succeed. We'll have to represent if we are to succeed. Massive community effort which we then speak of as a culture building kind of effort which will have to touch in some way or another some people intensively. The more casually but in some way or another must touch every single person and every now is one of those then and they aren't for years we have heard statements by people dedicated to the arts that these are wonderful ways to combat juvenile delinquency What is the philosophy of the Arts and Culture program as part of the overall program about how you read is this part of it is it conceived as a integral part of this or is it just as they are sometimes regarded as you might say icing on the cake or just something but the nice way to spend your time why how you we have a kind of slogan to describe how we see the uses a lot of the arts and cultural programs we say that we are interested not an art for its own. Icing on the cake as you might say but as equipment for a living and we see the arts as an entire group component one of the five major components of AA programs and we see not only arts. In the direct sun so on classes and workshops and programs and shows and so forth but the artists being involved directly in some of our other programs like Community Action Program name some of those other programs and the way in which this fits into it further and further in the arts are a potential way of life. Wow For example in our whole community action program and we say that if you're dealing with a people who are essentially in a colonial situation OP our list that will not do too much good to bring them number of services in fact the services might just compound their dependence exactly so that we say key to our whole program is Community Action Now the ads come in many ways for example. Young artists some of them will be assigned to design posters and that sort of thing with all rallies hall and youth unlimited orchestra dance group might be called upon to perform you know the kind of come on that you might need to get people out to a serious program which would have talking and let's recall that alone might not bring them so you might have to sweep in that way. That would be some of the more obvious ways that the arts would be used I guess you might say in a propaganda kind of way but also we see the artist as bringing a kind of perspective sometimes he's been to now only confined to the specific autistics that by brain the kind of perspective that can really permeate and give a kind of the run I don't know how you could say to that so the other programs whether they be after school study census. The Community Action Program. Deck or whatever course the arts are also served this function in the dry bones of the academic curriculum I like that sometimes so they can do this now let's talk a little bit more detail about the day right spread and comprehensive program you have a arch for example in the areas that are in drought or what do you do or do you act out the problem so that the audience can see their problems on the stage so they can see themselves as for example a drug was supposed to do for him and race what about the. Babs How do you have young men to come into the dance program you can't get young men of any kind come into that program would you describe the dance and the drama I want a. Drama we. See a kind of living newspaper kind of approach which we have used for example the two first place that the group that was one called out which of course is a problem of central concern to many young people in Holland and another called Black chaos which was a kind of a spoof on the various positions that the Negro people take now the nationalist and the Muslim and the integration of us and so for aught I saw this is the rack commentary you might say on the life of the get out we also see the groups involved in the classical set and so forth but we don't want to confine them to what you might call ghetto was by any means but this is clearly a way for them to express some of the fares and concerns the size of the hopes that they might not be able to discuss open some of the office the dances right interesting we also thought that phrase that this might be an all girl kind of operation one thing that we did we got one of the most visceral and masculine looking instructors that I know press about a bride who was. The wife of. The husband of a weapon very well. Done so I'm trying to think of her and then it's on the tip of my tongue. But anyhow he is in our program as well as a number of other structures male and female and we have found that. The boys are interesting a lot of the African dances as you know are quite there all kind of violent require you know good muscle command and so forth and some of the basketball guys out there getting to see how this could even help them in the basketball. And so wonderful I saw the paper not too long ago where someone from Les act. Study I read or was encouraged to work in the arts read a prize and sculpture I believe we have a picture of the example of someone working in the graphic and plastic I could you tell us about this program. Yes the picture I think you are referring to is the shot we have on no prince that's on of here is the construct of that program sculpture classes on oh there's a master sculptor and a wonderful wonderful instructor you see one of the things we had to do in this program of course was to get people who are not only masters in the various areas but also of those who have the qualities required to write with young people now I know it has to go into some of these community centers I don't know if you've been to some of these places but it's almost chaos and he has to wrest from that chaos a group of people he can calm down long enough to be interested in the arts and he's doing a wonderful wonderful job. And. I don't have journalism this is a ritual inclusion in the arts but I'm sure that it offers many opportunities and possibly training for future employment could you tell us about the journalism that's the journalism. As a group of young people and this guy says and most of the other cases these are young people who. Are interested in. The area as a possible career many of them and these. Actual schools especially high schools for example we got kids out of the. High school printing for that program there you see. One of our designers in the fashion workshop that's Paula bad when she happens to be the sister of Jim Broadbent She's one of the instructors one of the young instructors She's very young herself and really a talented young designers are appearing now and a number of fashion shows are kids and displaying the clothes that they have designed and made themselves. Of course we always think of the contributions of the Negro to our musical culture and I'm sure you have a musical aspect to this program. But sort of you have orchestras. Groups. We have going now well there's a high in the hall and you some limited access to they call themselves that's an eighteen t's outfit on the direction of retail he's the man you see standing right complex jazz musician and composer. I have appeared in many places. Saying that the York State villian out of the world's fell last summer but I have a pair that Jackie Robinson's home to do a benefit and have done many benefits and concerts and of course has assisted our Community Action Program by playing at rallies and so forth. Also a separate arc which records what goes on in the other arts but as an art form in itself. I understand you have someone usual equipment facilities and fit. The film guys they have the most expensive equipment the right stuff that's a movie yeah I am so by the instructor in that program that that and sixteen millimeter is the best you can buy and I have the best equipment one thing we were saying here to involve. The. Youth of Harlem who are quite cynical many of them you cannot come to them with a baby Brownie and say we're going to have a photography workshop so they want to feel that they are being exposed to the finest equipment and the finest instruction these kids off the sons my favorite in the arts program because they came and the fact off the street and all the other programs they found young people who were already involved. But there would very few on none we found kids who were involved in the films of that they are doing excellent work after a few months. With the Program of the script and they are it's to say nothing of your total program. This involved because of the organization and how as I was sort of pressured to staff do you have workshops. Just tell us something about the staff in the workshop has actually done I'll tell you Will we on and will we hope to be we have young people you saw some of them in the pictures we have one hundred young people involved as a stipend I get paid at the rate not really paid as a kind of a scholarship but they are an program for twenty hours a week and they get paid a down a half each hour now pat of this is their round training and coaching pat of it is assisting the. Coaches such as on the friends present board who go into the after school community sometimes they go along as to the adults. And part of it is time to do homework and so forth and so on so that's one part of the program we call the stipend aid program and they are very helpful in assisting the people in the community census now in addition we have greatly to expand our operation to have. Programs in the public schools during the growth history week during open school week and so forth programs for the parent teaches associations we have to collaborate with adult arts operations to put on jointly sponsored shows and exhibitions and so forth and so on so we envision I have a very broad gauge program and a premier as a planning for the day and training the leadership of the future through a program of some kind you have leadership right shops. Which work with us now that's not directly in the arts but. We have the training about AIDS not in every other area for example and the social work feel we will have young people just like these young people in the arts program who are Apprentice group work as late as they are being trained out of what we call a community action Institute What about the function of the neighborhood birds of various Kyles the neighborhood brides on not yet to establish all that and. We see them coming into being shortly now they are key to the whole enterprise we are saying that a powerless people can only be energised if you set up situations in which they can begin to exercise decision making power and so have some say over the law. Lives then just describe the democratic process I guess the story. I read about coffee houses do these offer a forum for the young people in the arts yes we have one now in operation we have plans for time throughout Holland and the youth have divided Harlem into districts time districts and in each district there will be a coffee shop cultural center now the coffee shop part will be a sort of Youth Night Club. We have one going now call Astro house on a hundred and thirty third Street and. Anyone who wants to can drop in on weekends and here units from the hall you walk by. And so going on then there will be things like reading the drama group the films out of the film group and so forth and so on and the basement of these coffee shops will be the local headquarters of the Hughes community action operation. We have one going now I say we hope to have time. A program that is involved in the extensive of this certainly must have to have some source of support where does the money come to support the various aspects of the Turner program but particularly the arts we expect the arts cat to fission not money making venture has a role but where does the money come for this I'm happy to say that the money is coming from the same sauce that comes through I take it to put on this program a large chunk of my money has come from the poverty operations board of the city of New York three point four million of the money that haul you has today we have gotten a total of some five million dollars one million from the president's committee on juvenile delinquency and youth development some five hundred odd thousand dollars for our climate part of our employment program from the Department of Labor. And we offer course anticipating more money from foundations and other governmental sources and about the Educational Opportunity Act you have any projects that will get to a quality that we are now asking for money from them to our connection with these particular projects one of the problems are always comes up is how do you pick the the recipients of this support and how do you screen the people I understand you have some unusual screening you solve some of these problems and how to screen the best people for the different aspects of your program of course there is and they are it's self-selecting lips are selected they write music are they like to work with Stern or I read if there are others are they like fashion design but I'm sure you have a screening that's broader than this now you're talking about the use of the prairie Yes well I hate to use the word screening here actually but I would prefer to use the summer process of selecting kids too. So you have the vomit and programs that suit the. Past We of course are concentrating mainly on the young people and what you might call the lower classes. Many middle class youngsters and Harlem they can benefit from our programs but they can also make it more or less with the support of the families we have mainly concentrating on the working class along class young people and the sons we are not selecting out anybody but we are trying to connect young people let's say if we are talking less about. Our business we have been the set of business enterprises that we will be setting up for involving young people well one of them is run a vase and repair now we find a young man and this crew that really isn't ready he will be in a sense fired out of that operation because that's a straight business operation but we will then turn around and put him in one of our job training programs so he will still get a stipend and everything else will be one making less demands on something that he's ready to cope with at this point you're rephrasing of this question I think gives us a real insight into why you are so successful at it. As a director of this program because you obviously have such an insight the psychology of the people that you're serving. Do you find the arts a useful method of meditation do you see any difference in motivation between theirs who are in the arts aspect of the program versus theirs or and say the social work or the business aspect which you just mention. My I would say one thing for instance that the arts of course since we started with kids who already were to some degree talented in the area that we have had. More immediate impact and more immediate success if you will with some of them with some of the other kids it takes a little while for them to even get a. What they're involved in such as community action takes a little while for these kinds of programs to show effects. And that's the kind of the difference I think some of the kids and some of the other programs are concerned about the fact that these ads are so visible and vivid and some of the things that little from where they sit could you say that one of the stations as anyone who works in the arts is involved. In media play with a national commitment and this is your basic problem with this group of young people as a class that they have not found an effective commitment to like the society that these stresses on the which they live have done tremendous damage to the sense of motivation the self-image and whatnot we find the arts very powerful That's why we see the arts or the arts perspective as infusing all of our programs that we've talked in very general terms about what your rector accomplished let's say. Dr Smith's or as a reputation for being the toughest Dr MacKay How do you get him until. A particular case or take some other I do get him involved and changes attitudes from an anti-social run to run which were great rewards. Through Well let me say it takes time. But for example when we run to find a place for our coffee shop we deliberately pick one of the toughest spots in Holland. And. Make sure that when the sun would not be broken the for this week and so forth we recruited the leader of the gang as an apprentice. Manager for that shot. But that's the idea the idea is many of these kids are in these and the social activities because this gets them a measure of status that we are trying to devise for them and with. Home some. Activities which will give them status but also will be something of substance and worth another Ranger trying to transfer and transform the antisocial satisfaction of the satisfactions they've gotten out of and essential activities into satisfactions which they were at six succeed in getting if they change their attitude and connect in a way there's a. Huge yes I think that the element impact the Value Act is tremendous so I play every person in our democracy who is not working to his full capacity represents a negative aspect and one which we cannot afford. Our positive achievement for through this. World of the arts in cooperation with the Office of code from the city of New York Robert W. downlink ultimate executive for the series is down to either you don't he and his guest today was Mr kind of marshal program director of the heart you join us again next week program directed by J. Marshall.