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In a special program we're glad to have as our guest the co-author of the battle book Black Rage It's coauthored doctors William H. Greer is our guest it is written along with pricing cobs they are black the guy addressed system professors of psychiatry at the University of California Medical School and the book draws on their experiences with black patients in the book as a series of presentations of case histories which are built around the explanation of the emotional handicaps unique to American black men and women and. Dr Greer in his book. When we mention the fact. Case Histories are built around experiences unique to black men and women first of all what is the unique factor that you found in. The experiences that you had with your patients well a climate in which black people live in America is so hostile to their flourishing and their living that it profoundly influences the psychological development. Of them as human beings. We're not saying that there isn't fact any unique black psychology psychological things that. Move black men are fundamentally the same things that motivations psychological principals and saw the whites but the climate in which blacks less so hostile that their growth is affected by that that hostile. The hostility would have a different effect on an individual rather than. Deprecation wouldn't it in other words hostility brings out the aggressive quality in a person if the black man is living in a hostile environment what. Goading to your finding has what effects has this psychologically induced in the in the black personality Well it includes. Deprecation certainly does because. They all how should I say the climate in America and the way Americans feel generally about minority groups which includes incidentally others than I mean groups of people other than blacks. This has had a profound effect on the way blacks feel about themselves and way they feel about the community of which they are part. People wonder for example. About the attitude blacks have toward destruction of property which is said to be their own as for example in the Watts riots and Dr Bryant people or not very thoughtful about the situation and asked Why is it that blacks are burning up their own homes without realizing it is hardly vises hardly qualifies Holmes in first place they didn't belong to the blacks and second place and probably ought to been burned in the herd are unfit to live in. The. Blacks could hardly feel a part of a community which forces them to live under such circumstances so. Well you know to get a. Better frame of reference for a few questions Dr Greer I want if I could ask you to draw upon a couple of the case histories exemplified in your book that would point up. Dramatically a couple of the. Effects of the kind of social climate you've been describing here for example. Mentioned you have indicated that. There's I'm looking at highlights from the book The Black Woman is prone to depressive self deprecatory attitudes that many black men weep frequently and that the Negro family structure is weak because it cannot fulfill its primary function protection of that members what. How are these essayed in your book and in terms of these actual. Real case histories Yes. They added to that black women have taught themselves as a direct function of the attitude that America has towards. You along a continuum of beauty and. Non-being there are great US certainly the classic American Beauty is blonde and blue eyed and it's only within recent years and by far men have been able to see themselves within a different context a different scale which allows them to feel good about themselves I think or remarkable things about the black movement is that it provides a climate in which. Men and women can feel good about the way they look at a lot they things of life after. Living in a community and society which all but despises blacks blacks are part of that society and feel about themselves the way that society feels about it this contributes to much of the Depression and. Or another point in the book we discuss on the suspiciousness and. If a black man becomes ill how it is more likely that the psychotic illness might become develop paranoid qualities because it is necessary in your description and reasoning. In answering questions about why one would destroy his own property. It's not very complex Dr Greer they think it's obvious that someone wants city structure to take action on slum housing and no action is ever taken action must be taken if you set fire to it I mean that this is rather obvious but we move into. More subtle regions and the subtle regions. Touch upon what you just described as as the norm that. This country has established and maybe most European countries number one the norm that in terms of taste and value beauty number was the norm established for what is intelligence number two and even the type of sicknesses that are respectable. What I'm trying to find out now is. Number one what lead you to conclude that these case histories represent the true picture of the of the entire black community throughout this nation. Because really our physicians and scientists and drain in the scientific method and it is a manner of behavioral scientists and has been ever since has been a behavioral science let's just I want to ask you that's one medical going to view I mean it's proven on many in many cases Adler has been disproven in many cases and so is young but I mean if you're taking one position as a behavioral scientists and as kind of just. Working from that base I'm not suggesting that it's not valid I'm just saying why why do you apply these particular conclusions of case histories to an entire. Group and I'm a long fraud has not been disproven on all cases neither has that learn either as you go on and behavioral science cannot be created with these three men you know and we're talking about the scientific method not just behavioral science in addition so that I stick to my guns and say that the technique that way fall is a time on proven law and has yielded a great many benefits and we feel it's likely to continue. A psychology psychiatry cultural anthropology all of these might affect the whole scientific method examines individual situations and tries to understand what moves what are they dominant features in that one situation and tries to generalize from it and that and some as a scientific method knows what to do another viewpoint on that down there before we leave it I don't want to belabor the op cost. Me if I did indicate that Freud had been disproven all counts you know what I'm saying is that. Black and white individuals in the world. Still remain an enigma in terms of what causes action and their overall motivation we don't I think it's fairly well agreed that it is not known yet really substantially and comprehensively and profoundly what causes. What causes mood is what causes hate I mean these are all gray areas which people doctors like yourself are deriving information on and coming to conclusions about I would say that if we this scientific body and a scientific approach were accurate then we wouldn't have this if human. Kind of reasoning which is to say you would invalidate the whole discipline simply because it doesn't answer all questions not at all. As such emotions are not an enigma we understand a lot about it but we don't understand everything and one of the reasons that Dr Cobbs and I were moved to write Black right is because we were seeing some things in our black patients that had not been written about before and we wanted to record them among other things we certainly hope that will stimulate others to write if it turns out that our observations have been wrong you know aberration I hope and scientific spirit someone will do that a couple of other questions and I get along this area here. In examining the case histories and in applying the scientific disciplines in the techniques profession to the causes is there and has there been an absolute distinction. In the black man's particular psychological state of being from the white man who would find himself in a similar situation let's say find himself. In. The very paranoid feeling because hostility is generated in other ways other areas all or are they too so dissimilar that you can actually establish a premise that the black man is unique in his paranoia. We don't suggest that at all. What we are suggesting is that Lee's situation in America is so unique that. Blacks who occupy peculiar position in this unique setting. Then have a set of experiences which other people don't have. As an example I think that people often want to. Make draw some rather broad conclusions about they involve interracial couples and the kind of difficulty they have and want to conclude that this has to do with the particular problems that the individual members of that couple have and yet we observe that should an interracial couple leave the United States they get along beautifully that their relationship that's me improves which I think would be obvious to anyone that would suggest that there's something about the climate in this country that is particularly in amicable to the the flourishing a sex relationship you've been using the term climate. Is there any specific. Phraseology any specific ideas what do you mean by the climate of this country what's wrong with the climate of this country well. The let's use an example that. Came out of our own. Studies. Black boys. Often have occasion to talk with older members of their family about what things were like in the south years ago and the older people describe. The hideous circumstances of its share of brutal people and reassure the kids at things are so much better than you see you don't have to put up that you don't have that here in the last hour here in this large modern city and the kid then leaves and goes out into the ghetto and finds the same hostility from the contemporary police in that ghetto that he was just told was inflicted on his grandparents let's say my father and Chavez and he may find it difficult to see the difference well. The kind of official hostility toward the well being of blacks that is demonstrated by the fact that it's the official you know police. Department which seem to bear such hostility toward blacks reflects I think the community climate what do you think that actually the white segment of America should really be psychoanalyzed and because. If the cause. It's in the mental attitudes that whites blacks then. Shouldn't the health of the nation be pursued in that direction and I think it's. I think it would be a good idea but I think some saw no shortcut as likely to develop out of it all I think I hope anyway that leaders are going to see that this. This growing dissatisfaction on the part of a large segment of America cannot continue because it's growing in the numbers of dissatisfied and in the intensity of the dissatisfaction and that rather than attempt to convert whites to a more reasonable and humane attitude toward minorities it is going to become a matter of national security all laws that this racism this hostility this bigotry and so on cannot be tolerated if America is to continue grow what Dupont do you hold regarding the attempt as of late to incorporate black ideals black standards I'm too. Inculpate the black image in and I leading economic structures I mean such as advertising we see now when there's a television commercial usually there's a black member there we see. In advertising there is some aspect in. Television plays and drama series there is this attempt to bring about the interconnection and go operation is this type of activity creating any kind of helpful climate are doing so and I think it's a very good. Probably tentative first step but it's important and I think it press more important than the numbers of blacks on television is a reflection that it is a business rep or understands the importance of involving blacks and changing actual attitudes toward blacks in your book Black Rage we have a number of the chapter heads. Just to pick out a few of them cheating womanhood acquiring manhood marriage and love the promise of education and you have promise in quotes and. How come there's so much hate in some of these after one reads the book what. Who is this book written for I mean is it written for the black person or is it written for anyone who wants to read it I wonder what I'm getting at the who derives the most education from this book we would hope that the situation makers as leaders who have to make decisions about racial conflict will have to try to find solutions to racial conflict would find in this book an understanding of why the rage is so intense and why it is so widespread so that the solutions Incidentally it's not an answer book we're not concerned really was devising sociological solutions because we feel that those likely to come from a more informed understanding of the problem electrons song so what we're trying we hope to make a contribution to is a subtle thing in complexity of the decision makers understanding the problem. The book that it would be directed then to decision makers first perhaps secondly to whites who are going to be acted upon by the decision makers and thirdly to blacks who need to understand who need to have a broader understanding of what their own condition if you indicate it's not a solution book but at the conclusion of the of the book I mean there must be some particular viewpoint that involves. The Chapter Black Rage what would you say is the conclusion that you in the book with I mean in terms of. We feel that. In spite of the unhappy course that racial relations taken a sort of accelerating pace of hostility and mounting. Arms all on either side that. There's a whole black movement as likely to. Bring. A fresh wave of democracy to this country or one looks around and finds a Latin Americans are. Now using some of the techniques first developed by bikes Indians disenfranchised whites that what is being divided into a method of social reform spearheaded primarily by bikes just like me to really broaden and make this a multicultural society in which all members have a piece of the pie and I think that quite aside from the issue of integration the separated and it's likely to do more for America the whole black movement than anything perhaps in seven hundred seventy six well if you were to the psychoanalyze a nation and a country of laws. Would we would it we would as we would certainly presume that the country has. It we presume that human beings have a soul. And by that I simply mean that there is possibility in room for evolution Yes of all right now so that there are some that say along with you that the possibility of evolution in terms of an ideal that the United States takes responsibility for in its philosophy and in its understanding. There is the possibility that this is the path the way you know. And I think. Dr Drew that. We watch we can look at all things are relative degrees I mean the one dimensional aspect the two dimensional three dimensional and the possibility of seventh and eighth dimensions to our own evolution as human beings now if we were to. Examine realistically the situation in the country today regarding the viewpoints expressed in the findings expressed in your book would you say that these ideas will be rejected by the white decision leaders by the average white house holder or that there's there's meaning in content meaning in substance in these ideas to such extent that one reading them can examine them and say and come away with a viewpoint that is realistic or with one simply reject out of hand I don't think that happened I think I think of rejection. To this point the evidence points to. Rather. Close attention being paid particularly by business leaders to the kinds of problems and the kinds of things we're talking about in the book because if one takes a close look at America one realizes that a tremendous amount of political power rests with business organizations and if we can affect this other apos tare political party bring about the kind of change social reform that we all I think. That will be. And there has been a very good response Dr Greer do you feel that the direction being taken at the moment by. Black. Power elements of the complete separatist nature is the right direction. Well I'm not sure really that long as reasonable and suggesting that there's no alternative. There never has been a possibility for a lot of Gratian the white community has not allowed it it's been a fiction that everybody's talked about and the fact that the black community now is occupied with strength itself is I think simply a reasonable response to the situation as it really is there has not been a possibility of an alternative there are those that disagree with you. I within the black structure I mean a number of them I think Roy Wilkins and a number of the lower well known names of. Whitney Young It said or are feel that there is. A hopeful avenue through. Avoiding. Separatist movement in this country with the blacks and which again you've stated your point of view and when I ask you kind of a light question. Psychiatrists and Psychologists. Are notoriously. Off another world was time. And I am sick that we were all I would like the rest of the community with is also often on the. Right and I sort of want to conclude by asking you Do you think. Answers and possibilities really rest within the. Psychiatric frame of knowledge you know I doubt I think that special view of the situation that we can bring can help others make a reasonable solution that's all we've tried to do here to bring our special view to bear on it well we're going to think your time is over. Our guest has been William H. Greer co-author with pricing Cobbs of an interesting book Black Rage which goes into detail into details about what we sort of skimmed and the name of the book is Black Rage.