Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with me. I'm grateful that you are here. On today's show, we'll have a live in-studio performance from jazz musician Theo Croker. We'll continue our conversation with women who work behind the scenes in music with DJ and producer Jennifer Lee, and we'll talk about how social media has changed how and what we eat with author Allyson Reedy. That's the plan. Let's get this started with the new film. Bob Trevino Likes It.

[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: You and Me]

Alison Stewart: In a new film, a young woman named Lily is searching for her estranged father on Facebook and she forms an unlikely friendship with a man who happens to have the same name, Bob Trevino. The film is titled Bob Trevino Likes It, referencing the character liking Lily's posts on Facebook. It makes her really happy. The two Bobs appear to be complete opposites of one another. Lily's dad, Bob, is sort of self-centered and blames her for some things that go wrong in his life. On the other hand, Facebook Bob is kind and caring and tells a lot of corny dad jokes. That man is played by John Leguizamo.

The film is written and directed by Tracie Laymon, who draws from her own life experience. A Collider review says about the film, "It is about how a life of trauma can begin to heal with one contagious act of kindness, even it means it coming from a complete and total stranger who may very well become a beloved member of one's found family." Bob Trevino Likes It opens in theaters this Friday. Joining us now to discuss the movie is actor and comedian John Leguizamo. Hi, John.

John Leguizamo: Hi, how you doing?

Alison Stewart: Doing okay. Writer and director Tracie Laymon. Hi, Tracie.

Tracie Laymon: Hi, Alison.

Alison Stewart: Tracie, this film is based, in part, on your experience with your Bob of your own. We see at the very, very end of the film your little interaction. When did you decide that one Facebook post, something that started, would make it into a movie?

Tracie Laymon: Well, I think it had started to change my life pretty quickly when it happened. I was looking for my dad. He was mad at me, wouldn't call me back, wouldn't email me back, so I put his name into Facebook because I'm a recovering people pleaser now, but back then, the straight-up people pleaser, and I wanted to fix it. I put his name into Facebook and accidentally friended another man with his name who had access to my heart because of his name.

I think the seed was kind of planted with the awe of the healing from a stranger, these small acts of kindness from a stranger. He would like something, say something positive. This went on for years and I didn't know how to thank him. John, I don't know if you know this, but I wrote a short version of the script just to say thank you. They all became a family. I was like, "Oh, I'm going to give this to him." Then I never really had that opportunity to give that to him, so I was extremely filled with regret that I had never told him what he meant to me. I didn't know what to do with that. I kind of had to make this movie. It's really my thank you and a way to pay it forward.

Alison Stewart: John, what attracted you to this film, a very kind film about a young woman who finds connections with a stranger?

John Leguizamo: Well, first of all, indie films are my favorite genre of art, of film. It's the thing that got me started. It's the thing that fuels me. It's where all experimentation and beautiful films that are made about characters and respect character. It's not just made by committee and commercial success. I got this great script. I loved it. Tracie and I met at my favorite restaurant, Morandi, and we hit it off. I felt like we were like kin or something, spiritual kin for sure. I just love the subject matter.

These two strangers being kind and respectful and decent to each other. I just feel like we're missing so much of that right now in this new regime that is so divisive and promoting hate constantly and fearmongering. To put something so beautiful and touching and you got to see it in community, you got to see it in a theater, because hearing hundreds of people laughing and crying at the same time is life changing.

Alison Stewart: Tracie, what did you think when this person that you didn't really know, you knew his name, but you didn't really know him, started liking your posts?

Tracie Laymon: [laughs] Well, for a split second, I woke up to the notification with my dad's name likes it, and I was like, "All right, my dad liked something of mine. We're back." Then I looked and I'm like, "Oh, it's not him." I was like, "That felt so good. I kind of need that." Healing and chosen family come in strange ways sometimes. I knew I needed it, so I just thought, "I'm just going to stay friends with him."

It went on for years. I'm still very close with all his family. I've gotten closer, probably. I think it was just showing up for the healing that was happening. It'd be something as small as my dad never came to any of my screenings all these years or never congratulated me on anything, and yet this stranger would say, I get a comment with my dad's name, "Way to go, kiddo."

I got a little bullied when I cut my hair because I had really long hair and I shaved it during the pandemic. There were some people who were like, "Oh, why'd you do that?" or something. Then with this one comment, for my dad's name, I think it looks great. Sometimes it only takes one positive comment in a sea of negativity. It's like one person standing up against a bully. We think we don't have that power, but we absolutely do have power to make a difference.

Alison Stewart: John, your Bob, he's hiding out a little bit, doesn't seem to have a lot of friends. Why is he hiding?

John Leguizamo: He's not hiding. He's just a regular guy, first of all. Such an exciting thing for me to play, just a regular, normal, nurturing, caring dude, because I get to play all the eccentrics, which I love, but it's nice to just be something that's a little closer to me, just a regular dude. Bob is not hiding. He's a loner. He's not lonely, but he's sad. We all have carried a lot of sadness and still function and still do great things in our lives. I love that Tracie's capturing just a regular guy.

Most of the world is filled with regular guys. You know what I mean? Not everybody can be exceptional, and there's no reason to always have to be exceptional. That's what I love about Bob, is this regular sad guy who functions and there's a need to nurture somebody. He's childless, and he wants to nurture. He takes Lily under his wing and gives her everything that was never given to him, and even though they're strangers. You can still do that with your chosen family, your found family. I think that's such a beautiful message that Tracie puts into the world, because that's who Tracie really is. Tracie is one of the most kind, gentle, generous, giving, creative people that I have ever met. It was such a joy to be in her presence and work with her.

Alison Stewart: Let's listen to a film from Bob Trevino Likes It. Facebook Bob agrees to fix a toilet for Lily. She doesn't know who to call, so she calls him. Then they go to the hardware store for a plunger, and he discovers that she doesn't exactly have what she needs in life. Let's take a listen.

Bob Trevino: What other basic necessities of life do you not have?

Lily: College education, health insurance, car.

Bob Trevino: [laughs] In other words, you don't have any tools, huh?

Lily: Not really, no.

Bob Trevino: If a problem arises, what do you use? I mean, how do you fix it? How are you [bleeps]? How are you even alive? All right, kid, come on. Are you sure you don't have the other type of flashlight, the kind that you wind up [buzzes] like that in case power goes out and her phone dies and whatnot?

Attendant: I will make sure it's on the next shipment.

Bob Trevino: Yes?

Attendant: Yes.

Bob Trevino: All right. I have to get it next time, then. Yes, no worries. No biggie. Hey, can you grab the rest?

Lily: Yes.

Bob Trevino: I'll go get a card.

Lily: [chuckles] Hi. I think I'm going to have to use a few cards, if that's okay.

Attendant: Oh, it's been taken care of. Your dad got it.

[music]

Alison Stewart: That's from Bob Trevino Likes It. Barbie Ferreira is playing Lily, by the way. John, what do you think Bob is getting out of this relationship with Lily?

John Leguizamo: Oh, he's getting so much. These two people complete each other. You find those friends in life that just fill your life with all the things that were missing. That's what community does. Lily gives him a sense of importance. He feels like he's needed. He's been needing that. He loves to have a place to give all his philosophies to and all his corny jokes to. He had nobody before, and that's what he needed. He needed that audience, and that's enough for him.

Alison Stewart: It broke my heart when he says she doesn't have the tools, Tracie, because she doesn't have so many of the tools we discover over time.

Tracie Laymon: Yes, absolutely. I think a lot about a plant that never gets to bloom because it's never watered. Sometimes, when you grow up without these things, you just need a little bit of water and you can bloom. There's so many people that just need somebody to see them and say, "I care. I see your experiences, and I'm going to show up for you." I feel like, look at how much Lily changes just from a little bit of kindness. It means everything.

There's magic in the everyday. One thing I really like about this film is there's magic in someone buying some tools for you at the hardware store. There's real magic in that. There's magic in someone holding the door open for you or saying, "Are you okay?" I think this film really celebrates that.

Alison Stewart: We're talking to actor John Leguizamo and Tracie Laymon. We're talking about the new film, Bob Trevino Likes It. It opens in theaters this Friday. French Stewart plays her dad, biological dad. Tracie, in a way, we have to understand him. We don't have to like him, but we have to understand where he's coming from. What traits were you going to give to this character? What direction did you give to the actor so that maybe we understand him a little bit?

Tracie Laymon: I never try to judge. I don't really judge. I try not to judge in real life, and I definitely don't judge when I'm directing. Even that character, I was always on his side. I had to be. Hurt people hurt people. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't have boundaries or you should invite them in, but I think we all had an understanding that he was hurt. We wanted the nuances in his performance. Who knows what's next for him? Let's hope he figures it out.

Alison Stewart: John, what questions did you have for Tracie about her experience?

John Leguizamo: Oh, my God, I had so many questions, and she answered all of them. Tracie had such an interesting life. Her life is so fascinating in so many ways, to be estranged from your father. I also have father issues, so I really related. Barbie has as well, not that I'm revealing something that she hasn't revealed already. It was interesting. We had father issues. She went online to look for a Facebook dad. I find my father figures elsewhere. I fill my father hunger with mentors and people in my life that give me that father that I never had.

Then, Tracie, I love that she also includes disabled people in all her work. I find that so powerful and inclusive and DEI. I love DEI. It's so important to be inclusive of everybody. Diversity is important and Tracie believes in that. In bringing Lolo on, oh, my God, her performance is so amazing. She's disabled but amazing.

Alison Stewart: She's funny in The Secret Lives of College Girls. She's hilarious.

Tracie Laymon: Yes.

Alison Stewart: What was something, John, that Tracie told you as a director, which really stayed with you, that you were able to really use in your performance?

John Leguizamo: Wow, these are great questions.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: No pressure. No pressure, John.

John Leguizamo: Well, we were trying to make a really complex character together, me and Tracie, because it's not as easy to play just a regular guy, play yourself. It really isn't. If everybody thinks, "Oh, he's just being yourself," it really isn't because you have to also come up with the shades. Me and Tracie really talked about his sadness and how to keep that alive. He's a regular dude, but he carries this sadness. I felt that was also really important. Me and Tracie worked on every scene to make sure that we map that out. Not in a heavy-handed way, but it was there infiltrating. Through osmosis, you pick it up.

Tracie Laymon: I found it so amazing that John was able to be such a kind Bob, our Bob. I feel like he's all of our Bob now, but not a saint. He can't be a saint.

John Leguizamo: Right.

Tracie Laymon: That's not interesting. To play a good guy and make him so interesting and so relatable and so real, it was the nuances of that and the struggle with what he's dealing with internally, I think, too.

John Leguizamo: He's not a funny guy. He's a corny guy. You know what I mean? We love those corny guys. They're always so hopeful because, I guess, they don't see that other people are judging them.

[laughter]

Tracie Laymon: Such a sweet innocence.

Alison Stewart: I was really curious about, also with the pacing of it, well into the film, Lily has to make a decision about whether she wants to, let's say, talk to her biological dad or engage with him, we'll say, and she does. She decides to go for it. What brought Lily to that moment when she decides, "I really don't have anybody. I have to talk to my biological dad"?

Tracie Laymon: In my experiences, in a way, it's like, I imagine, or what I've heard about, leaving a cult or something. They have their hooks in you. As you're healing from a relationship with a narcissist or someone who's abusive or toxic, they do have their hooks on you. As much as he's healing and growing, that's still what she knows. What you don't know is scary. Is it going to stick around? Is what you don't know going to stick around, or is it going to abandon you? I think she's still in this space in the midpoint of the film and trying to figure it out. Sometimes people go back many times before they finally leave.

Alison Stewart: John, Facebook Bob, he doesn't know a lot about her backstory, but he jumps into the friendship. Why doesn't he want to know more initially?

John Leguizamo: I think sometimes you just want to be respectful of people's privacy, meet people where they're at. Sometimes you don't need to know all that history. You just need to know the people in the moment that you're speaking to them. I'm like that a lot. I don't always pry into people's past unless I'm doing research, then I'm incredibly snoopy and nosy. In real life, I like to meet people where they're at as well. Just who are you right now? What do you want me to see? What are you presenting as? I'm cool with that.

Tracie Laymon: I think there's an emotional reciprocity, too. That's really nice because she shares, then he shares. It's almost like he's sharing to make her comfortable. Like, "Oh, you were vulnerable. Here, I'll give you something, too, so we can-- You're not alone in that."

Alison Stewart: It's interesting. I want to play this clip from Bob Trevino Likes It. It's when Lily is kind of-- You said that you're her dad, but you're not her dad, and she gets called out on it. Let's take a listen.

Bob Trevino: Okay, listen, kid. I've always, always used protection, okay? I haven't touched another woman since I met Jeannie. How old are you?

Lily: I'm 25.

Bob Trevino: 25? Was your mother the estate lady I messed around with when my mother--

Lily: No, no, she wasn't.

Bob Trevino: It was the adjuster who came to my house to assess the truck when I wrecked it.

Lily: Bob, no, it's nothing like that.

Bob Trevino: No?

Lily: I may have let Daphne believe that you were my dad.

Bob Trevino: Why'd you let her think I was your dad? I'm not your dad. You understand? I need you to understand that, that I'm not your dad. I'm nobody's dad.

Lily: You don't have to be so mean about it.

Bob Trevino: I'm not being mean. I'm just a little upset. I just need you to understand that I'm not your father.

Lily: I know, but you talk to me and you listen and you give me advice, and you liked all my posts.

Bob Trevino: I'm sorry if there was a misunderstanding, but that was not my intent. Come on, come on. Where are you going? Where are you going? Come on, Lily.

Alison Stewart: Tracie, it's such an important scene in the movie that you can have a fight but still be friends, ultimately.

Tracie Laymon: Yes. It was a big realization for me in life, too. [laughs] Major. Not all of us grow up with that. It's amazing. We tried to show their triggers. Lily gets triggered. She has a lot of symptoms. She gets triggered by abandonment, by feeling like she failed or the disconnection with people, things like that. There's also glimmers, these positive triggers, for lack of a better word. Those come with Bob. They come with these realizations that the way that you are taught isn't the way it has to be, and there are other people that won't treat you that way. That can be very, very, very shocking for someone who's grown up in the environment, like our character or me. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: John, some people would think this is kind of weird, like a grown man and this woman and they meet on Facebook and they're friends. Even Bob's wife is like, 'What's the deal? She wants money from you." Why do you think people have such an aversion to people meeting on social media?

John Leguizamo: Because everybody focuses on the negative aspects of social media, catfishing and people being seduced on social media. I find social media is just a tool. It just depends on the people on the other side, if they have a good intention or evil intention or a bad intention. That happens in real life, too, anyway. That happens in bars. That happens in all situations. I think we all have to be super smart about who we're getting involved with.

I thought Lily did it all right. She met him during the day at a cafe. It's all the things you're supposed to do to stay safe. They always met during the day in public places for the most part. He didn't have ulterior motives. He was a happily married man. He wasn't looking to stray. He was looking to be a father. He was like just a rented dad.

Alison Stewart: We're not going to give away any spoilers from here on. I'll stop there, but I'll ask both of you, and I'll ask you to go first, Tracie. There's been such an uptick in loneliness in our culture and how people just feel alone a lot. What does this film say about loneliness and the cure for it?

Tracie Laymon: Social media started to connect us, and now it's being used to divide us, and the pandemic. We're still in all these effects from the pandemic and being so isolated and our country is divided. I think we are told every day that we're so different, we're all so different. This film, this is all the people from all walks of life coming together through small acts of kindness. When we're in that theater together, laughing and crying and loving these wonderfully lovable characters, we are not all so different. We see that. We feel that in that room. That's something I really hope for the film, is that people just get to the theater and have that experience, because I just hope it's a reminder that we're not isolated, we're not alone, and none of us are perfect, and that's okay. We all need each other, and we actually can have each other if we just show up.

Alison Stewart: John, what do you think?

John Leguizamo: Definitely, social media and the digital revolution has caused a lot of loneliness because we spend a lot more time, like this one, on Zooms, on our Instagrams, on Facebook. We're on our computers. There's a lot of loneliness because we're seduced by our phones and technology. We're not in community. We're not hanging out. We're not spending time with other people, and that creates a huge amount of loneliness. Especially for our young people who don't know how to break out of it or create social opportunities, it's difficult. That's why that movie talks to us right now in the moment that we're going through.

Alison Stewart: Tracie Laymon, she's the writer, director, and the producer. John Leguizamo, he is an actor. The name of the movie is Bob Trevino Likes It. The film opens in theaters this Friday. Thanks for making time for us.

Tracie Laymon: Thank you, Alison.

John Leguizamo: Thanks for having us.