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Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It. I'm Kousha Navidar in for Alison Stewart. Thanks for spending part of your day with us. I'm grateful you're here. On today's show, we'll speak with author Jennifer Croft about her debut novel, The Extinction of Irena Rey. We'll talk about the new film One Life, which is about a British humanitarian who saved hundreds of Jewish children before the start of World War II. Director James Hawes and star Johnny Flynn join me to discuss. We'll hear my conversation with singer-songwriter pianist Regina Spektor, also, some of her live performances from WNYC's Studio Five.

That's the plan. Let's get this started with Julio Torres and Problemista.

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Kousha Navidar: If you enter the creative mind of Julio Torres, you'll be immersed in a universe full of color and whimsical shapes. You might know Julio from the sketches he wrote on SNL or his standup comedy special, My Favorite Shapes, where he brings in assortment of inanimate objects to life. He adds that quirky absurdist touch to his latest project Problemista. The film centers on Alejandro played by Torres himself. He's an immigrant from El Salvador with dreams of making it as a toy maker in the Big Apple.

This dream is made a lot more complicated when his employer fires him from his job, putting his visa status at risk, and desperate for a new job. He encounters Elizabeth, a kooky art curator, played by the Academy Award-winning Tilda Swinton. She agrees to help Alejandro with his visa status as long as he helps curate her late husband's show. Let's play a short clip of Alejandro asking Elizabeth for a job in her swanky loft.

Alejandro: They didn't want to sponsor me anymore. I'm actually from El Salvador.

Elizabeth: Oh, El Salvador pupusas.

Alejandro: Yes.

Elizabeth: Those nuns they killed in the '80s. Yes.

Alejandro: Right. Now I'm looking for a new job-

Elizabeth: Oh, you are?

Alejandro: -that will maybe sponsor me.

Elizabeth: Oh, I'm not sure I could offer anything formal, but maybe freelance, and then we could see. [background noise] Did you use FileMaker Pro at the facility?

Alejandro: No, we use Google Sheets.

Elizabeth: [chuckles] You can't compare that to FileMaker Pro.

Alejandro: It's basically the same except FileMaker is harder to use and not free.

Elizabeth: Do you know FileMaker Pro?

Alejandro: Yes, I love it.

Elizabeth: Oh my goodness. That's--

Kousha Navidar: Alejandro's journey is turbulent, silly, and enigmatic with just the right amount of tenderness that captures one immigrant story of making it in the city. Here to talk about the film is the creator, the writer, and director of Problemista Julio Torres. Hey, Julio. Welcome.

Julio Torres: Hi. How are you? Thank you for having me.

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. Like we heard in that earlier clip, Problemista is full of awkward encounters with eccentric New York City characters. Why was New York the right city for your character story?

Julio Torres: Oh, because it's loosely based on my experience and I went to New York and the city offers such a fun Petri dish to see, I don't know. There's like mosaic of outsiders that I try to depict in the movie.

Kousha Navidar: Yes, and immigration is a lifeblood of the city, and Alejandro, much like yourself faced real challenges with the US immigration system. He talks to his immigration lawyer throughout the film just knowing how dire it is. Can you talk a little bit more about how you drew from your own experience as you shaped his journey?

Julio Torres: Yes, I drew from the gray sort of a Kafka's desperation of bureaucracy and what it feels like to be caught in a bureaucratic limbo, and what it feels like to be trapped in these catch-22s. It was really fun to find a way to dramatize that and show that at least in my experience, immigration is this invisible cloud that's hovering over you that's not really tangible. It's more of a liminal state and that became the tether through which I tell this story through with flourishes of the fantastical. Yes.

Kousha Navidar: Another part of that immigrant experience that stood out to me at least, was the relationship between Alejandro and his mom. It's a really tender relationship in that movie. His mom lives in El Salvador, but she's always checking on him and they send each other encouraging messages on WhatsApp. She's his biggest supporter and from what I understand, your own mom played a big part in your own artistic journey. Can you talk a little bit about how?

Julio Torres: Yes. My mom is an architect by trade and she was definitely, like, it's through her that I learned collaboration and learned the joys of making something with people that you love. It is through her that I-- I didn't grow up around film. I didn't grow up around anyone who was in show business. I didn't really know anyone who worked in the industry until I was in it. However, the interest in collaboration and the interest for the visuals, that all came from my upbringing and from both my mom and my dad.

Kousha Navidar: What was her reaction to the film?

Julio Torres: She just saw it at the premiere and I don't know. We haven't really had a chance to sit down and really talk about it, but also, she's not completely fluent in English. It's a very visual movie, so hopefully that captivated her.

Kousha Navidar: Yes. It is a very visual movie. The part that you were saying about how an immigrant, you come here and you don't have the contacts that you might otherwise enjoy if your family's been here for generations. It resonates, I think with a lot of listeners. You and I have a few things in common. We are both immigrants. I moved to New York City from Iran. We also seem to have big dreams. This is a big movie in your portfolio. At what point did you feel like you made it here if you did feel that way? If you did, is that feeling more about your career or something else?

Julio Torres: I don't know about "making it", but I definitely it-- Because the goal was always to feel like the ground beneath me wasn't eroding, to feel like I didn't have to worry about rent or just like the very basic needs. That ironically didn't actually come until I started having my first jobs as a TV writer. The first time I ever had health insurance too, which is like the opposite experience of so many other people in my industry where they leave more comf--

Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It with Alison Stewart. I'm Kousha Navidar. I am joined by Julio Torres. His new movie Problemista is coming out nationwide. We are public radio. We are excited to have him here. Julio, I would love to talk to you as well about the character of Alejandro. He awkwardly waddles when he walks, he has a strand of hair sticking out of his head. How'd you come up with that physicality?

Julio Torres: It's an exaggerated version of myself. Or not so much an exaggerated version of myself, but if you zoom into that part of me, that's who that character is. Really, the physicality, I think when I went back into the head space of wanting to say very little about myself and was more comfortable being an observer and this mouse-like little creature, that just came. I feel like the clothes also help a lot as soon as I put those clothes on and it just made me feel like this little explore, which is why I gave him a backpack too.

Kousha Navidar: The backpack's a good point. What about the clothes? I think that's super interesting. What was it specifically about those clothes that put you into that psychology?

Julio Torres: There are ones neutral, but also there's something very uniform about them. There's something very scientific or something, like he's exploring a different planet.

Kousha Navidar: It's so funny to compare that to the character of Alejandro's desire, which is to become a toy maker. It's this space of imagination versus neutral. Is that by accident or was that just a thoughtful, "Hey, I want to show the opposites that are in this person?"

Julio Torres: In the time of my life that inspired the events of this movie, I was only wearing black. I think that's because I didn't have much time to think about myself, and I didn't have much time to-- It's almost like, "Oh, I don't know what I am yet, so I'll just be neutral." I'll just be like the closest thing you could get to the default image on any social media app before you upload your picture.

Kousha Navidar: Yes, they're just like the outline of the frame.

Julio Torres: Just like the outline of the person, that is what I was going for.

Kousha Navidar: That's wonderful. Alejandro will do anything to make money to survive in the city. We see the lengths that he takes to secure enough money to get by. He even leases out his room to a random person on Craigslist just to make a few extra bucks. Let's listen to that here.

Speaker 4: You have a message you wish to speak to Craigslist.

Alejandro: Yes.

Speaker 4: [unintelligible 00:11:30]

Alejandro: I need to rent a room in Bushwick, $850 to roommates. New subletter immediately.

Travis: Hey, what's going on?

Alejandro: This is Travis, he's going to sublet my room.

Travis: Hey, what's going on?

Speaker 6: Okay.

Alejandro: Room's that way, Travis. I can't afford to make rent and pay for the lawyers and all the other immigration stuff, so I thought, why don't I just sublet my room and sleep on the couch if that's okay?

Speaker 6: Oh, of course. Can you just tell him to be super careful around my baby whatevers?

Travis: Hey, do you've Wi-Fi?

Alejandro: Yes, it's on the fridge.

Speaker 6: I keep getting these e-mails that are like, "I put your necklace on and it immediately broke. Can you refund me?" and I'm like, "No, I'm sorry." Oh, wait, this sucks so much for you. Can you just apply to the toy thing from your mom's?

Alejandro: Oh, I can only apply from within the US.

Speaker 6: You have to stay in the US to apply online from within the US?

Alejandro: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: How did you want to add depth but also humor to the challenges of a struggling artist?

Julio Torres: The context for that clip that you just showed, which may not be clear otherwise, is that in the movie, Craigslist is an entity, is a person, is like this sea witch performance of the website, Craigslist. By adding notes of fairy tale and whimsy to the gray bureaucratic struggles of this specific immigration process, I think hopefully you get an insight into how the specific mind of this very specific person works. I think that earlier versions of the script, perhaps more immature versions of the script, the protagonist was this sort of a perfect, can-do-no-wrong guy who was down on his luck.

It was ultimately a story about perseverance and that started feeling like Neoliberalism propaganda or something of try really hard and you'll make it. Then what felt more true was telling the story of this very ambitious person, this hardworking person, but also this flawed person, this person necessarily who doesn't have the luxury of being picky and yet is picky.

Kousha Navidar: That juxtaposition right there, that really comes through. I'm talking to Julio Torres director, writer, and star of the film Problemista. It's out in select theaters now. The national release is March 22nd. There's a lot more for us to get into. I want to talk more about Tilda Swinton. We're going to do it right after this break. We'll be right back.

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Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It from WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar in for Alison Stewart, and we're lucky to be talking to Julio Torres, the director, writer, and star of the film Problemista, which is out in select theaters now with a national release on March 22nd. I'd love to talk about the other main character of this story, Elizabeth, played by Tilda Swinton. Let's talk about her character a little bit. She's a snooty, middle-aged art critic, constantly frazzled, very particular with her needs. Here she is complaining to a customer service agent because she can't find a specific photograph on her phone.

Tilda: I need my photographs. You're holding [unintelligible 00:15:39]

Agent: Ma'am, I'm sorry about the hole.

Tilda: Where are my photographs? You've hidden them again. You've hidden them from me.

Agent: Your pictures should be on the Photos app.

Tilda: I didn't see them because you told me that there would be no backups in the cloud. Where's the cloud anyway, I don't understand.

Agent: They wouldn't just disappear like that, ma'am.

Tilda: Stop interrupting me. Listen, I need my photographs. You've hidden them from me. You keep hiding things from me. Where are my photographs? You have erased my memories. If that isn't enough, I was forced to switch to voice memos instead of texting because your tiny, tiny, tiny keyboard is too bloody small.

Agent: I hope you can enlarge the keyboard if you like.

Tilda: Don't interrupt me. I want to text with my finger.

Kousha Navidar: Alejandro's face witnessing all this happening during the scene is priceless. It's like a, "what did I get myself into?" kind of face. Julio, Elizabeth, is she an amalgamation of people you've interacted with or is she purely a figment of your own imagination?

Julio Torres: It's a combination of everything. It's a combination of people that I have met. It's a combination of, I think our worse impulses. [chuckles] Once Tilda inhabited the part, obviously she brought so many important pieces to her, including the way that she spoke and the way that she looked, was something that we worked on that together. I don't know. We created this being that is so odd and yet so familiar, I think.

Kousha Navidar: Can you talk a little bit more about that collaboration with you and Tilda, on this character specifically? What elements came through from her did you collaborate on?

Julio Torres: Yes. Originally the character was supposed to be American, and once Tilda got on board, she discovered this accent, this West Country accent, and she sent it to me, and I thought it was so funny. It allowed her to speak really fast, which was very necessary for this character because it's like not so much a stream of consciousness. It's not a stream, it's like river rapids. It's turbulent and never-ending. Then the look, we wanted something to give notes of dragon, give notes of a hydra or dragon.

We chose dark colors, spiky colors like state of the Maroons, scaly things, leathery things because if Alejandro was a little mouse, she's the predator. The hair was so fun to come up with. Everything in her is a problem. Her clothes are uncomfortable. She's carrying too much things with her. Her hair is not in place so just making her a tornado of a person.

Kousha Navidar: I love that idea of like Dragon Corps being the aesthetic that we're going for with this character.

Julio Torres: Yes, completely.

Kousha Navidar: What was your relationship like with Tilda working on set? I heard that she was the one that encouraged you to direct the film in the first place. Is that right?

Julio Torres: Yes. She was definitely one of the voices who was very excited and encouraging for me to direct it. I think that's a testament to her willingness to explore new things and her willingness to take risks and how un-preoccupied she is with perception. She's ultimately about making interesting work. I think that there's maybe a lot of other actors out there would be more protective and being like, "No, I'm not working with the first-time director." For her, it's the opposite, that I think added to her excitement.

Kousha Navidar: Did you learn anything from working with her that you think you'll carry through in your future projects?

Julio Torres: She echoed and reinforced instincts that I had, which primarily that of making work with friends, having a creative family, and having work be joyful, and have this sense of community. This movie is just so entrenched in my community in New York, and there's so many peers of mine who are in it, who are a part of it. In many ways, the movie is a celebration of that comedy artist scene in Brooklyn. I hope to keep making work like that.

Kousha Navidar: You mentioned joyful, and one of the joyful elements of the film are all the shapes and colorful objects that are scattered throughout. Alejandro's mother is a designer, as you mentioned, your own mother architect by trade. Did you always have an interest in shapes and designs?

Julio Torres: Yes, I did. At one point, I thought I wanted to be an architect myself. I was always raised around very deliberate aesthetic choices, and that really, I think, informs my work today.

Kousha Navidar: You even had a standup special called My Favorite Shapes, where you personalize random objects and create a silly story around them. In the spirit of joyful questions, what shape are you feeling like today?

Julio Torres: Can you repeat that question? You got too [unintelligible 00:22:13].

Kousha Navidar: Absolutely. In the spirit of my favorite shapes and the aesthetic, what shape are you feeling like today?

Julio Torres: Oh, my God. I think I started a triangle very sharp. Now I'm devolving into a blob.

Kousha Navidar: An amorphous shape.

Julio Torres: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: What is on the horizon for Julio Torres?

Julio Torres: Hopefully getting people to see this movie, and I don't know. I hope to take some time away and put pen to paper and explore some other ideas that I have and see what comes with them. I'm also in post-production for, I don't even know what to call it, a show, a special, a moment on HBO, maybe a moment. A six-episode experiment that's supposed to come out this year. Hopefully, just some time me in a notebook and seeing what happens.

Kousha Navidar: We look forward to that moment, and a moment to highlight again now is the movie Problemista, which is out in select theaters now, and there's a national release March 22nd. We've been talking to Julio Torres, the director, writer, and star of the film. Julio, thank you so much.

Julio Torres: Thank you. Thank you so much.