[music]

Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar, in for Alison Stewart. Guess what, listeners? Sunday is the last day to submit to the Public Song Project. You'll probably want to get that out of the way before Mother's Day, or you could always record a song with your mom, just an idea, like maybe this one from 1927 song by Vaughn De Leath.

[MUSIC - Vaughn De Leath: Baby Your Mother]

And baby, your mother, likey baby, you

Back in your baby days

Maybe your mother is lonesome and blue

Kousha Navidar: Your submission could be a cover song or an adaptation of a poem or a novel or even a movie as long as it isn't protected by copyright, hence the name of the Public Song Project.

For this year's edition, we're also asking you to focus on the 1920s since WNYC was founded in 1924. Send your song to us before May 12 for a chance to be interviewed on WNYC. Here with me now with a little more inspiration for you to get involved in the Public Song Project are All Of It producers Simon Close and Zach Gottehrer-Cohen. Welcome.

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: How's it going?

Simon Close: Hello.

Kousha Navidar: I am so excited to talk to you two in studio right now about the Public Song Project. Simon, you've been on before to talk about this project. Zach, can you tell us what gets you excited about the Public Song Project?

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: Yes, and it's tough to figure out where to begin. My favorite part of working here at WNYC is the engagement projects that we do. We really think about our listeners like it's a community. This is one of the ways that we get to reach into the community and say, "Join us and come together and build something with us." We do that when we invite you for calls and just all sorts of ways. This is one of those ways that we merge that community with our mission, which right now on All Of It is arts and culture.

We know that New York City is a vibrant community of artists, and so we get to bring everyone together around that art and around this idea, which by the way, the public domain and public media, but what are we? Public radio? Public domain and public radio, there's that interconnected tissue of stuff that belongs to all of us. The airwaves belong to all of us, and so do these songs that have aged out of being owned by one particular artist. They've entered the public consciousness. Now we all get to say, "This belongs to the world, the culture."

Kousha Navidar: All of it belongs to all of us.

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: Exactly.

Kousha Navidar: Simon that was a good one [laughter].

Simon Close: [inaudible 00:03:00] I don't know why I've been on here talking about this project [inaudible 00:03:03]

Kousha Navidar: Zach started, yes. Let's play one of your favorite recordings, Zach, called Crazy Words Crazy Tune. It's submitted by a group called the youth squad. Can you set us up, Zach?

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: Yes, it's been stuck in my head all morning.

Kousha Navidar: I know. I've heard it [laughs].

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: The youth squad is a group that sent us their song last year. They sent us a video too. It's a few dozen people in a reverby room, so the sound quality is not great, but there's a good reason for that. They're all playing and they're all singing.

One of the things about music is- we're talking about old music. Before they could record stuff, it was about coming together and just playing together. That's what the spirit of this song is really about. I love that for them and for us because we get to hear it. I also-- Well, we'll talk about it on the other side.

Kousha Navidar: Well, let's listen. Here's Crazy Words Crazy Tune.

[MUSIC - The youth squad: Crazy words, crazy tune]

Crazy words, crazy tune

He'll be driving me crazy soon

Vo do de o, vo doe doe de o, doe

Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Kousha Navidar, in for Alison Stewart and we are talking about the Public Song Project. We're here with producers Zach Gottehrer-Cohen and Simon Close to talk about the deadline to submit your project which I believe is this Sunday. Is that right? This Sunday is the last day that you can do it. Zach, you wanted to talk a little bit about the beautiful noises that we just heard.

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: Yes, when was the last time we had a kazoo on All Of It?

Kousha Navidar: I can't remember let alone--

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: Been too long, I would say. The thing about that track that I wanted to play today, we're coming up on the deadline. Musicians, artists might not always be the most deadline-conscious. We just wanted to play that to say, it doesn't have to be super-high quality. You don't need a studio. If you want to go into a studio and record you can, but we really just want you to participate in this community of musicians that we get to enjoy here in New York.

Kousha Navidar: We heard that with that last song, which was a cover of Crazy Words Crazy Tune, which was first published in 1927 by Johnny Marvin. Now we're going to hear one called Wayfaring Stranger, which is classified as a "traditional song" that doesn't really have a date of first publication. Simon, before we hear it, can you explain how songs that are considered traditionals fit into the bucket of public domain works?

Simon Close: A traditional song generally is one that refers to a song that's been around for a long time. It probably doesn't have a specific composer or writer attributed to it, and therefore it probably was never officially published. That applies to a lot of stuff from centuries ago. Some examples of songs like that, like Scarborough Fair is traditional, Shenandoah is an American folk song that I think has no composer attributed to it. Deep River and American Spiritual another example of a song that just existed. They tend to be passed down via oral tradition rather than a composition that one person wrote down and then I guess the prime example of this song. They're definitely playing into that idea of part of the public consciousness, not owned by any one person, and anybody can take from them and create a new version out of them.

Kousha Navidar: Let's listen to it. Here is  Wayfaring Stranger by Mel [unintelligible 00:06:35]

[MUSIC - Wayfaring Stranger]

I'm going there to see my Savior

I'm going there no matter what,

I'm only going over Jordan,

I'm just going over home.

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: That was Mel [unintelligible 00:07:05] with Wayfaring Stranger. Full disclosure, Mel is a very good friend of mine. I just want to thank Mel for contributing to the Public Song Project.

Kousha Navidar: All in the family. We just got a question from Amy in Manhattan. That's a decent question I want to bring up. What formats do we take for recordings? It sounds like you have to go to a studio and make it sound fancy. Any tips for someone who just happens to want to make a song at home without a lot of equipment?

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: Well, if this is the Amy from Manhattan that I think it is, then she already knows. She submitted a song last year. You can go and listen to it on our website. Amy, the song that you submitted last year, I think it was just you on your phone and that is beautiful. We will take whatever audio that you can send us of these covers and these originals. Everyone should go check out Amy. She rewrote, I'm not sure what the original song was, but--

Simon Close: Pollution, by Tom Lehrer.

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: Yes. Okay.

Simon Close: Then she did a version called their fracking.

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: Their fracking, rewritten to reflect a different kind of pollution that wasn't really around when Tom Lehrer was writing his music. Don't stress about the production value. Don't stress at all. Just have some fun and hit record on whatever device you've got, and we want to hear it. That is it.

Simon Close: As far as file formats, mp3, WAV, mp4. If you want to send a video, we'd love to see a video of you playing the song too.

Kousha Navidar: That's wonderful. Amy, whatever works for you, I guess works for us. Thank you so much, one, for asking that question and two for being a return, participant in the Public Song Project.

Simon thinking about guidelines as well, the project has some pretty strict submission guidelines, because it involves copyright law. What are some best practices to confirm whether something you want to work off of is actually in the public domain?

Simon Close: A general rule is that if something was published in 1928 or earlier, it's going to be in the public domain, most likely. If you are looking up a song or a novel or film that you want to adapt into your Public Song Project submission, if you google around, and you see the date 1926 keeps coming up, you're probably pretty safe.

If you really want to do your homework, the US Copyright Office has a catalog of copyright entries that goes back I think even centuries like to the 18th century. The decade that you really want to worry about because that's where the cut-off is is around the 1920s. If you have an idea of when a song or a book came out, you can go into that catalog, which is linked to on our website, wnyc.org/publicsongproject, and you can search through and confirm that it was published on that date.

Besides that, if you want someone else to do the work for you, Duke University's Center for the Study of the Public Domain, which is also linked on our website, they come out with a list of works entering the public domain each year. You can just go to their website and pick something that you want to record. If they have listed it as in the public domain, then you can be pretty sure that it's in the public domain.

Kousha Navidar: If you go to our website, then you can definitely get all of those resources as well.

Simon Close: Yes. Scroll down to the box that says resources for exploring the public domain, I think.

Kousha Navidar: Got it. What's the address of our website?

Simon Close: wnyc.org/publicsongproject. That's wnyc.org/publicsongproject.

Kousha Navidar: Like a pro. Last year, the project got three submissions for Puttin' On the Ritz, and all were pretty different from each other. Zach, let's hear one of those. First, what do you want us to be listening for?

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: In the first two tracks that we heard, The Youth Squad which was pretty lo-fi. Then we heard Wayfaring Stranger, which was beautiful but still also a thin production. It didn't take much, a guitar, a voice. You hit record and that's it.

This is a song that I think is very very MIDI-based, electronic music based, and so we just wanted to say that is welcome too. It doesn't have to be-- and you'll hear, "The instruments are-- well, I'm just going to say it. It's a little bit of a cheesy production and I love that.I'm here for cheesy.

Kousha Navidar: Exactly.

Simon Close: I think we're all here for cheesy.

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: My brand is cheesy.

Kousha Navidar: Our brand is cheesy here on All Of It. Let's listen to Mary Jane.

[MUSIC - Mary Jane: Puttin' On the Ritz]

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: That was Puttin' On the Ritz. I incorrectly introduced it. Mary Jane is the person that sent it to us. When they sent it to us, they sent it with the comment, "This track goes kind of hard. Idk if you're ready for it." We weren't ready for it. I wanted to say also when you send us your stuff send us a little artist note. Let us know why you picked this song and how you decided how you were going to play it and go ahead and challenge us. If you've got something that you don't think We're ready for, we definitely want to hear that. Yes.

Kousha Navidar: I'm going to skip down a little bit just to make sure that we get through everything. Let's hear a disco take on The Best Things In Life Are Free. This is from Moon and Stars from John [unintelligible 00:12:19]--

Simon Close: [unintelligible 00:12:19].

Kousha Navidar: [unintelligible 00:12:20]. Thank you so much. Let's listen to that one.

[Music - John: The Best Things In Life Are Free]

The moon belongs to everyone

The best things in life are free

The stars belong to everyone

They gleam there for you and me

The moon belongs to everyone

The best things in life are free

Kousha Navidar: Zach, this is a song that many people will recognize different versions of. From listening to all the submissions from last year, what do you think makes for effective adaptations of familiar works?

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: I think that song, as I have heard it in the past, more than what we just heard it, it's kind of slow and beautiful. It makes me think of the best things in life are free like a slow stroll through the park in the spring or the summer, or like a moonlit night, like those contemplative and quiet zones of the best things in life.

This one takes the same question that the text of the song is asking, what are the best things in life that are free that we don't have to pay for? The answer is something pretty different. It's disco. It's dance. It's gathering together and moving your body and creating or changing the framework of this song to point to that thing in life that's free as opposed to this other aesthetic of sweetness that-- It takes the text of the song or the poem or whatever, and reframes it in a totally different way that still matches with the text, but reimagines it.

Kousha Navidar: You can always find new ways to be true to the original intention of a piece. Here's a take on The Erie Canal Song, Low Bridge, Everybody Down. Before we hear it, Zach, can you read us the artist note that came along with the submission?

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: Yes. They said, "We love the driving beat of Erie Canal and that it is a song of working people. This inspired us to create the percussion of this song with instruments that reflected the spirit. The first of the two percussive pitches that repeats throughout the song is the clang of an eight-inch section of rail from an old railroad performed by Karen. The second percussive sound performed by Rick was made by manually rotating the ink disc on top of our vertical jobbing press made around 1890 for printing metal type."

Kousha Navidar: Let's listen to Erie Canal from Karen Whitman and Rick Pantell. Here it is.

[MUSIC - Karen Whitman and RickPantell: Erie Canal]

I've got a mule and her name is Sal

Fifteen miles on the Erie Canal

She's a good old worker and a good old pal

Fifteen miles on the Erie Canal

We haul'd some barges in our day

Filled with lumber, coal, and hay

Every inch of the way, we know

From Albany to Buffalo

Kousha Navidar: Just want to point out we heard Albany in that song. Shout out to Albany, my hometown.

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: I just wanted to say, this is a New York song. I think when we did this last year, Paul Cavalconte, who was one of the judges, made a note that he remembers when he was in elementary school in the Bronx, they would go to assembly and sing this song. I did the same thing at my assemblies in elementary school in Queens.

Kousha Navidar: I did too. I remember learning this song in 5th grade and in 6th grade and in 7th grade.

Simon Close: One of the things that I love about this project is that a lot of these songs, you don't even realize that you have these personal connections to them that you share with other people from different generations, from different places even. Yes, we've gotten to hear so many stories like that and they're all so heartwarming.

Kousha Navidar: Simon, we're almost out of time, but could you point folks to some resources that might help them, A, find public domain works to adapt and then, B, actually record their public song in case they don't have access to a recording studio but might want to put a little extra love into their production.

Simon Close: Yes. I would say again a good place to start is wnyc.org/publicsongproject. That's the homepage for this project, and we have links to the places that I mentioned before, the Duke University Center, the catalog of copyright registrations. We also have a link to the New York Public Library's performing arts library. They put together a list of some public domain sheet music that you can actually check out from them and make a song based on.

On the subject of libraries for recording, a lot of local libraries actually have recording studios that you can go to. The New York Public Library has a recording studio, the Brooklyn Public Library. If you're in Connecticut, you can go to the Westport Library. If you are in New Jersey, there's the East Brunswick Public Library, the Hunterdon Public Library, and the Newark Public Library.

You can also shout out to the Brooklyn Public Library for having a musical instrument lending library as well. If you don't own an instrument yourself or know how to play one, you need to get another one, want to try something on banjo or something, you can for free rent out a-- They have drums, guitars, ukuleles, violins, electric instruments. One of our winners from last year went there and got a banjo from the Brooklyn Public Library and recorded a really excellent version of the Prisoner Song. That's one of our winning submissions.

Kousha Navidar: Shout out to the Brooklyn Public Library for making that song possible.

Simon Close: Yes.

Kousha Navidar: Just to drive home the fact that these submissions absolutely don't need to be high production to be beautiful, here's an acapella version of the song After You've Gone.

[Music - Turner Layton (Acapella): After You've Gone ]

Now won't you listen, deary, while I say

How could you tell me that you're goin' away

Don't say that we must part

Don't break my aching heart

You know I've loved you--

Kousha Navidar: Simon, before we wrap, two quick questions. We just got a text that asks, "Is it midnight on Sunday, May 12th that's the deadline?"

Simon Close: Yes. It's the end of the day, Sunday, May 12th.

Kousha Navidar: End of the day, Sunday. Just remind people how to submit and what they should include as part of their submissions.

Simon Close: Yes. Submit by going to wnyc.org/publicsongproject. What to include as part of your submissions, tell us what you've adapted precisely. If you know the date, the composer, we just want to double-check to make sure it's in the public domain. Like Zach was saying before, include a note about it. Maybe why the song is special to you, how you came across it, what we should listen for in your recording, how you approached it, what you were thinking about when you did it. Any information is appreciated.

Kousha Navidar: Wonderful. Well, Zach Gottehrer-Cohen, Simon Close, thank you so much for all the work you're doing on the Public Song Project. The deadline is May 12th. That's this Sunday. We really look forward to hearing your submissions. Thank you both so much for being here.

Zach Gottehrer-Cohen: Thanks, Kousha.

Simon Close: Thank you, Kousha.

Kousha Navidar: Well, that's All Of It. All Of It is produced by Andrea Duncan-Mao, Kate Hinds, Jordan Loft, Simon Close, Zach Gottehrer-Cohen, L. Malik Anderson, and Luke Green. Megan Ryan is the head of live radio. Our engineers are Shayna Sengstock and Jason Isaac and Juliana Fonda. Luscious Jackson does our music.

Hey, if you missed any segments this week, catch up by listening to our podcast. It's available on your podcast platform of choice. If you like what you hear, please do leave us a great rating. I'm Kousha Navidar, in for Alison Stewart, and I'll meet you back here next time. Have a great weekend, and Happy Mother's Day.

[music]

 

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