[music]

Tiffany Hanssen: This is All Of It. I'm Tiffany Hanssen, filling in for Alison Stewart. Last Thursday would have been the late musician Richard Swift's birthday. He was a producer and multi-instrumentalist who had released a number of solo records and also worked with Arcs, like The Shins, Wilco, Ray LaMontagne, Valerie June. Pitchfork described him last year as "The embodiment of a musician's musician." He was also bandmates with decorated musician and producer, Dan Auerbach, first as a touring member of The Black Keys, then as part of the indie supergroup trio, The Arcs, who released their first album without Swift earlier this year. Here's the track, Sunshine.

[Sunshine by The Arcs playing]

Why Juliana?

Tell me 'cause I wanna know

In Louisiana, our luck's gettin' low

[music fades]

Tiffany Hanssen: Electrophonic Chronic, The Arcs' sophomore album was co-produced by band members, Dan Auerbach and Leon Michels. Michels leads the band, El Michels Affair, and next month he'll release a collaborative album with The Roots' MC, Black Thought. The Arcs' second album began in sessions back in 2015, around the release of their debut, and a few years before Swift's death, Auerbach called Electrophonic Chronic, "A way for us to say goodbye to Swift." Both Auerbach and Michels joined me earlier this year, the day the album came out, to talk about it. I started my conversation by asking Dan how The Arcs grew out of originally being just a side project.

Dan Auerbach: It was just a fun project. We would get in the studio, we all had our own studios, we were all kind of studio rats. We loved to record. That's how this group came to be, really. It wasn't about touring. It wasn't necessarily about being on a stage. It was about the creative process and the studio and the shared love of that.

Tiffany Hanssen: Leon, when you first came together then, what was the goal? Just to hang out and play good music?

Leon: Essentially, yes. We got together and Dan had a couple songs that were maybe for his solo record, maybe not. It started like that, but it became clear pretty quickly that it was his own thing. It felt like a band.

Tiffany Hanssen: When you realized that it felt like a band, what was that moment like when you realized, "Hey, this thing has got some legs now that we might want to take it to the next step," what was that moment like, Dan?

Dan Auerbach: I think as soon as we started playing music together, it was instantly fun. We were prolific. We would get together and come up with four, five, six, seven song ideas in one sitting. It never stopped, really. I always knew that there was a special connection there. We didn't know exactly what it was, but that's how it started.

Tiffany Hanssen: Yet you talk about a special connection, and there's someone who's no longer with us who was part of that special connection.

Dan Auerbach: Absolutely.

Tiffany Hanssen: Richard Swift passed away in 2018, 3 years after the release of that first Arcs album. Enough time has passed now for you to be able to talk about him?

Dan Auerbach: It hit us pretty hard. We never really dealt with it fully, I think. We certainly weren't in the right frame of mind to open up those old songs. Even though we'd almost finished a record with Swift, it got put on the back burner and then he left us and it was just we didn't really know what to do. It took a few years for us to even be comfortable to listen to the music again.

Tiffany Hanssen: Sure, and to go out on public radio and talk about him. Right?

Dan Auerbach: Yes. He was a very special person. The first time I worked with him was on a Valerie June record. We hit it off and we tried to work together all the time. As soon as I went to New York to work with Nick, and Leon, and Homer, I knew that Swift would love it, so I brought him into the mix, and there was no looking back. It was just instantaneous bond and instantaneous music.

Tiffany Hanssen: Leon?

Leon: I think Swift was actually the point when it became a band. Because we had been making music, me, Dan, Nick, and Homer, and then when he joined it, it felt fully complete.

Tiffany Hanssen: Dan says he's a special person. What makes him a special person?

Dan Auerbach: He was a special, little boy. [laughs]

Leon: A special, little boy. Yes, he was.

Dan Auerbach: As he would say.

Leon: Yes. A million things. Outside of music, he was the funniest person I'd ever met. Truly. A-level comedian.

Dan Auerbach: We thought, "This must be what it was like hanging out with Chris Farley backstage," or something. It's just like-

Tiffany Hanssen: Brad Williams, right?

Leon: Yes, exactly.

Dan Auerbach: -always on. Always on. The funniest person in the room, always. He had his demons. He kept them to himself, really. When he was around us, it was like--

Leon: Yes. Then when he let them out, it was funny, like the way Richard Pryor talks about-

Tiffany Hanssen: Right. That's how he deals with it.

Leon: -lighting himself on fire.

Tiffany Hanssen: That's how he deals with it.

Leon: He was just always funny.

Dan Auerbach: Yes. Absolutely.

Tiffany Hanssen: When you talk about that specialness now, how's that make you feel?

Leon: I think enough time has passed where thinking of him doesn't make me sad, it's usually just the good parts. Like I said, him being so funny, it's usually when I think of him, I'm usually laughing.

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. Dan?

Dan Auerbach: I guess I don't look back too often. You know what I mean? I'm always focused on the future, focused on what I got to do next. Us making this record was really we were forced to go back in time a little bit. Honestly, it was amazing, just to hear him on tape laughing, and playing, and joking, and just to hear how special he was as a musician on top of all the things we loved him for. The more that time goes by, the more I just feel honored that I got to be his friend and make music with him, because I just think he's just truly one of a kind.

Tiffany Hanssen: A lot of these tunes were recorded cut-back in 2015, 2016, before his death, so you mentioned going back-- and being able to go back after a certain amount of time, being able to go back and listen to them. Did it, I would assume, when you first went back, it brought up a lot of stuff.

Dan Auerbach: It was hard. Swift's last record, I can't listen to, still. I'm playing guitar all over it and stuff, and I remember him having me play guitar and talking about the album. It's too hard for me to listen to yet, because there's so much pain there and it's so obvious. I think with The Arcs music, it was really all joy and about friendship, and about really good times, so it made me feel happy when I listened to it.

Tiffany Hanssen: Maybe, though, time doesn't make all things better.

Dan Auerbach: Well, no, it doesn't make all things better, but I think it makes you appreciate things way more.

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. What do you appreciate about him and about that process now, Leon?

Leon: Swift? As a musician, I think his approach to making music and being in the studio, for me, was pretty revelatory. At the time, especially when I first met him, he had this approach that was like all you really need is taste and a little bit of ability and just to be in the studio. He was never hung up on equipment, or even the song, like the song would happen. Just being in the studio with him and feeding off his energy was a big influence.

Tiffany Hanssen: The album opens with the track. It opens with him on drums.

Dan Auerbach: Yes.

Tiffany Hanssen: Dan, how did you decide to open with that track?

Dan Auerbach: It was a song that when we did eventually start to play some shows, it added a different dynamic to the group and it was fun. That was one of the songs that we loved to play live. We just felt it was right for the first thing for people to hear on this record to be Swift playing.

Tiffany Hanssen: Let's listen to it. It's Keep On Dreamin'.

[Keep On Dreamin' by The Arcs playing]

Every other city we go

Every single radio has gone away

And it isn't coming back, isn't coming back

The city isn't what it seems

Tiffany Hanssen: Dan, this was Keep on Dreamin'. What state was this song in when Richard died? Was it fully formed?

Dan Auerbach: It was finished.

Tiffany Hanssen: Fully finished?

Dan Auerbach: Yes, most of the record was fully finished. There were just a couple of things here and there that we needed to finish.

Tiffany Hanssen: Was there a time in the process of truly finishing it, like mixing it and all of that that you wished for his voice?

Dan Auerbach: Luckily, we used Chad Blake to mix and he did the last record, so it felt fitting to have him do this one to link the two albums together sonically. We knew this would love Chad and what he did because it was-

Leon: Tchad.

Dan Auerbach: Tchad.

Leon: [laughs]

Dan Auerbach: He's not a normal mixer and Swift love that.

Tiffany Hanssen: He was there?

Dan Auerbach: Yes, he was there.

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes, he was there, right?

Dan Auerbach: He knew what we were going to do.

Tiffany Hanssen: Leon, now, Richard's gone, talk to me about this collaboration between you two. How does this feel now moving forward between you and Dan?

Leon: We've worked together for 12 years, so it doesn't really feel any different. It feels great to promote this record because just having it out, there's what? Three years we're just sat on a shelf. The idea that it wasn't going to come out was sad, or that there's a possibility because both of us weren't ready.

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes, I wondered that. Dan was there ever a question like, you know what, let's just forget it.

Dan Auerbach: No, I knew that it would come out. It was too good, it was too finished, it was done. I knew it was just a matter of time.

Tiffany Hanssen: When you are collaborating with Leon now, Dan, let me know one thing you love about collaborating with him. Let's talk about him like he's not here. [laughs]

Leon: Let's go.

Dan Auerbach: Basically, he always knows where to go for lunch.

Tiffany Hanssen: All right.

[laughter]

Leon: Yes, that's it. That's the thing and he always backs me up, that's what I love about Dan.

Dan Auerbach: Is there anything more important?

Tiffany Hanssen: It's a valuable skill. It's a valuable skill. All right, on that note, let's go to A Man Will Do No Wrong. Let's hear that.

Dan Auerbach: No, it's A Man Will Do Wrong. [laughs]

Leon: Yes. [laughs]

Tiffany Hanssen: Oh, man. Okay, right? Oh, A Man Will Do Wrong. Oh, sorry, Leon.

Dan Auerbach: You just went there.

Tiffany Hanssen: I just went there.

Dan Auerbach: You were projecting. [laughs]

Tiffany Hanssen: I was projecting. Sorry, A Man Will Do Wrong.

[A Man Will Do Wrong by The Arcs playing]

A man will do wrong for the girl he loves

Even let her break his heart and treat him bad

Forget about his pride

Tiffany Hanssen: When you're listening to a song with someone and you're super excited about the song, one of the things that I do is I say, "Wait, wait, wait, you got to listen to this part." Leon, what part of this song do you do that, or is there a song on this album that you always do that? When someone is listening to it and you're like, "Wait, wait, wait you got to hear this," or Dan, jump in.

Dan Auerbach: Man, I think that this whole album is filled with ear candy, that's why we called it Electrophonic Chronic. It's just another way of saying ear candy. We're in love with the studio and sound and that's what it's all about. It's got to have that special little crack, we call it, sprinkled on top.

Leon: [unintelligible 00:15:10]

Dan Auerbach: It gives it its thing.

Tiffany Hanssen: I talked before you guys got into studio. Why are you laughing?

Dan Auerbach: I don't know.

Tiffany Hanssen: Because you said crack.

Dan Auerbach: Yes, I'm sorry. I'm an idiot.

Tiffany Hanssen: With a band called Thee Sacred Souls. They do some SoCal soul. I hear some soul on this album. Do you, Leon?

Leon: That song we just listened to I would categorize that as soul.

Dan Auerbach: Yes, that was a cover and it was by-- Because one of the things that we really love to do besides being in the studio was being in a record shop. Leon played me that song A Woman Will Do Wrong by Helene Smith on 45 and flipped out. I loved the song, it was so good. We're just playing in the studio one day, and I said, "Let's try to cover that." That's how that song came to be.

Leon: Yes, with no intention of releasing it.

Dan Auerbach: Yes. [chuckles]

Tiffany Hanssen: Right. You're still going to record shops?

Dan Auerbach: You know what, we're still going to record shops.

Tiffany Hanssen: What are you looking for?

Dan Auerbach: Something that moves me. Usually, I'm looking for 45s but if it's gospel, I'm looking for LPs. I don't know, it all depends really where I am but certain dealers have their specialty. We definitely spend a lot of time on Discogs.

Tiffany Hanssen: Yes. Leon, yes?

Leon: Discogs, no I have a problem.

Dan Auerbach: [laughs]

Tiffany Hanssen: All right.

Dan Auerbach: Discogs is a problem for us.

Leon: Yes, it is. It's too easy.

Tiffany Hanssen: The next song I want to get in here before we're completely out of time is River. What inspired River, Leon?

Leon: River, I don't really remember. That was another situation where me, Dan, and Swift just started from nothing. I don't really remember what we were going for but--

Dan Auerbach: so many of these songs were just us channeling the music out of nowhere. We wouldn't necessarily talk about anything. We wouldn't be trying to copy another song or something, we would just go.

Tiffany Hanssen: All right, let's hear a little bit of it.

[River by The Arcs playing]

Here we go

One, two, three, two

I remember I took my first steps

Tiffany Hanssen: That was my interview with musicians Dan Auerbach and Leon Michaels of The Arcs about their latest album Electrophonic Chronic.

 

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