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Thank you and no NO W. N.Y.C. present city close up each week at this time see more in the SIEGEL interviews people in the public eye on issues of current interest to know here is Mr Siegel. How do you do ladies and gentlemen welcome to so they close out with very happy to have as our guest on this edition of city close up the executive director for the Association for the help of retarded children Dr William Frankel Dr Pfeiffer welcome to sort of close up my study and I'm a very simple and naive question to open Well what is middle retardation. I would try to give you a very simple answer if I can. Easiest answer would be an individual is considered to be mentally retarded protests on a standardized intelligence test seventy five or below when you can sort of the normal law the average intelligence is one hundred this gives you some indication of the amount of difference and in addition there is a factor of judgment that's involved mentally retarded persons usually have a lack of judgment in most social situations and require special help guidance training and so forth Dr Ferber though I gather that there are degrees of mental retardation yes side there are a number of degrees of those we call the befouled who are so low intelligence that sometimes we can't even get an accurate testing on them and there are those who are so there who are a little bit higher than this and require some very special kind. Programs that we call moderate and then we get up to the area of mild. School and after school can go on into jobs so there are varying degrees Well now how extensive is the problem of mental retardation here in New York City there's been no. Survey our senses of the numbers but we use a figure which is accurate. If you consider the national statistic a three percent figure is used out of the total population and in New York City based on our current population if we come to. Exactly one of a million people who are mentally retarded All right let's say determined by tests and other means to be mentally retarded I say that because a number of them when they are properly educated and trained can go on into jobs and at that point I don't think you or I would say they're mentally retarded they are then contributing citizens but they are the furthest point considered to be mentally retarded. Might be some confusion in the minds of people with regard to the difference between mental illness and mental retardation when you want to talk to this. QUESTION No it's not naive question it's a rather difficult one to answer without touchbacks spell try to give you a chance and it's a serious difference seriousness sense that parents and others who think the person is mentally retarded should be very sure there are differences between mental illness and mental retardation primarily the mentally retarded it usually occurs during the or around the period of birth before during or after or in early childhood. As opposed to mental illness which usually occurs late adolescence or during the young adult years of course there are instances where the children are autistic and mentally ill but this is a fine large major difference between when does it occur in the mid added around birth or shortly thereafter early childhood and mental illness later years another difference of course is the display of behavior in the mentally retarded is usually a slow kind of. Movement through school and through training programs that I like of ability to learn at a proper rate but usually the behavior is considered to be otherwise average maybe outbursts here or there to the frustration and so forth but there isn't this. Different type of behavior see in the mentally ill which is allusion Akins the illusions the persecution that may be in their minds or the paranoia or whatever else in the way there is not that's not a lack of contact with without it you find with the mentally ill well that it's a little too that different differences yes Dr Frankel you can say. Largely with the help of retarded children do you want to describe briefly what the what for so what programs are available to help mentally retarded children here in New York I think we could spend weeks at this one because of the city it is so vast and the amount of problems that are going now and being planned both city and public and private agencies but. Our own association if you wish me to answer this one I think I could do a props better we have in all of the five boroughs. One type of program or another we have across the five boroughs a range of programs from supporting two diagnostic clinics for early treatment. To home training programs that may be prescribed to preschool programs one in Brooklyn one in the Bronx one planned to school programs other than the public school program these are Association school programs children who are not eligible for public school at this time for a number of reasons we have three of these one and branch one the Brooklyn one in Queens total of one hundred ten children we have a full time recreation program in the five boroughs a day camp program a camp program a sleep away camp program and a very interesting. Kind of idea a camp where parents can also go and get a chance to be away while the child is in the same campaign for special reasons a family camp situation. Any additional services. Are needed and necessary and well I'm only getting about a fourth of our programs but yes of course. We are only I would think hitting about three to four thousand people in the kinds of problems I just described I would take the other two hundred forty thousand people estimated the city of New York. Bulk of the responsibility for the education of the top of their About thirty thousand children in public school classes in special classes as they need to perhaps start the training of such children and education such children earlier and is going on at the moment some of us feel we ought to look at the preschool. Programs particularly in the area where there are culturally deprived retarded children and perhaps get some anti-poverty money into the program here and start them off on the right track and moving right into. School if they can go through it they on the other hand the city has. An opportunity now to do more for the school aged child who's about to go into high school who is also the thought of we have a few programs when I say we are not saying the state. But we have to have many many more to get them ready for jobs where is the money for the. Same places coming other programs is going to have to come from the city itself because it is one of the cities responsibilities who support the association. At the moment we are receiving no city money whatsoever we are hoping we can paint with the help of the mental health. Moneys which the city by the way wouldn't have to put up at all that would be state and federal monies. For city children in daycare programs and. Training programs and what we call taking programs Social Service and counseling programs for parents the. City I think is moving in this direction and we're hoping that we can get the help we get most of our money from public solicitations were voluntary you can see as you conduct fund raising Can we go door to door we get a permit from the department to conduct our campaign and we try to arrange other ways such as dinners and special events and so forth and this is one way we raise money unfortunately I can't say we raise enough we are not meeting. Well I got to frankly what help is available to parents who suddenly discover that they have a mentally retarded child I think the one of the first things of course is to know that there's an organization such as AWS they may turn to for guidance information monthly meetings and all the bows parents can come meet other parents discuss the problem as a vast amount of literature we have available to them we conduct a yearly parent education series free of charge we invite all the parents to come it's going on right now and I don't chapter and we have a variety of counseling services available to them and social service department we have a full staff and social workers psychologists and caseworkers and rehabilitation people and so on and they can get specific help for that child by just knowing that there's a place such as ours what can we stare them off in the right direction when for example suppose. Parents who might be listening to our program right now who have a youngster. Was about to become of age to go to school where would they go how would they find out about registering this youngster in a public school one of the easiest ways of course would be to let us know about the situation we were then the social service department direct such a parent to the Bureau of Child Guidance which is an arm of the Board of Education and that it does all of the testing for children who are eventually placed into special classes were released give them the information that they would be required to have or to get the process started and then from there on in we would hopefully help the family make plans to over the summer and to make sure the child is admitted and if we can help in the after school programs or even programs we could augment what the public school program gives So in this way we can start the count off in the right direction. Dr Frankel is it true that a vast majority of retarded children mongoloid children I would say a conservative estimate would be about ten percent of the persons known to be mentally retarded are believed to be Mongoloid and I work among children Well it's interesting the concepts of the whole field of mental retardation are changing almost day by day that was a time when the time Mongolian idiot was you and this is all just never used anymore. The concept being that all mongoloids what kinds of persons and with us when a lower I.Q. with this also made a picture of despair and nothing could be done and so forth and none of mongoloid young men and women are today working right many things that are schools that. Can. And are working for our own sheltered workshop we have gotten jobs for mongoloid young men and women who are currently working in a sit in the are full time paid jobs I will grant you that make this very clear that it's not a. A matter that can be done every day but it can be done with selective placement of such persons on jobs by and large the bulk of the mongoloid young men and women are in sheltered workshops where they can work under supervision and will probably remain for a long period of time but even here everyone around no one is able to be placed on a full time job it's a far cry from saying as I have heard over the last few weeks institutionalize your child because your child is mongoloid this is happened only week ago when a parent called and said that they were advised to do this because they had a mongoloid child just born in the family I think we have a lot of educating to do in this kind of a situation but that's a far cry from the days when they all were thought to be helpless This is not the case anymore Well speaking about what parents can do what happens if a family has a retarded child and they have several other children who are perfectly normal and healthy. How do you what sort of family relationship exists let's say when when visitors come. The other family situations this is the most difficult situation and it's hard to get away and ancestor what happens in any one family but we do know from our experience and running a. Brother sister group where we had brothers and sisters of retarded who were in the family and we asked the group to explain how they handle visitors who come to see them how do they handle their own friends when they come and they have to say I have a brother or sister was mentally retarded and it again depends I guess on the individual's understanding of this brothers or sisters limitations his own feelings about himself his own treatment by the family as to if he. Deny Satan love and attention affection and other privileges and all these all going to the individual. I think these are some of the things that have to be raised when getting an answer to you if the family can look upon this child who is different as a child and let the difference be handled differently if I can use that term I think we'll focus away from the problem and start to look toward the positive end and this would rub off on the children we would hope and that the child has responsibilities in the family and has to do the dishes even though he may not want to and has to do other chores around the home and becomes a family member and his dissipating as such I think will tend to take away from the difference and this will in turn make it more possible for the brother or sister who has such a person at home to feel more at ease the feel more comfortable and saying yes I have a brother or sister was a target. Well what about the unfortunate situation where parents and professional people find the services that are available to a retarded youngster at home and much of that decision was finally made that the child has to be institutionalized. What procedure then this is a very difficult situation to be sure if the decision has to be made primarily because there is a lack of a community facility and I think we have to reexamine why there is no social facility However if the individual requires institutionalization primarily because this is the best possible program for the individual and the family and of course the. State at least seven such schools in the surrounding area well a prop in Staten Island Letchworth was sake upstate a bit of a three institutions who receive a large number of those who come from New York City and the. Referral is made to the institution hopefully there's a spot open as to my knowledge a waiting list in all three schools. All three it to my understanding are overcrowded and there is an attempt now I through the governor's plan to make small institutions we in our own the cessation feel that they can't be small enough so that we can hopefully have a home like atmosphere in the institution and all the other programs that have to be provided so some of us and I'm one of them I must say I feel I think the total approach is really an indictment against a professional and a whole society because what we're saying here is really we can't help this person in his own community so let's play some elsewhere. And I know we have some fine institutions in the state of the country but I think this has to be reexamined to perhaps the institution for the top has got to be considered a part of a total community program and be located physically in the community whether children's lives whether families can visit whether there's not this breaking away and separation child from family I think when this day comes we'll have the finest type of institution anywhere and a better understanding by the public at large that institutions aren't bad places to go to because they're here you can see them you can visit you can participate in come in you can share in the problems you can see that things are being done I think one of those have been a bubble and that's a place that I looked upon as a last resort it need not be but it shouldn't be consider the absence of other programs. Dr Frankel we have a great deal about research and polio and. Other physical diseases What's the status of research in the mental retardation especially mental retardation of children we're very hopeful in the city of New York as of January of this year has embarked upon a mandatory testing of every child born of the sick and this is done within the first week of the child's life a little bit of the child's heel drops of blood are taken samples are made and they are examined to be examined to see whether or not such children have a most devastating form of mental retardation known as P.K.U.. P K U P K U is short for a female cat so that's why we all say P.K.. It's a form of mental retardation that. Comes on right after birth although there are some who feel that it certainly is being manifested during the day conception and thereafter but at least it can be detected. Right within the first week and it's a form of retardation that is one that eventually will result in institutionalization of this child for the rest of his life if it's not detected to such child and handed have been detected already in the city of New York so this kind of program they have chosen we hope will be sped through a special diet which will be provided to them and other means these children will need to lead a normal life but if we didn't have a test the children were within the first two years of life have parable damage to their brains and would have to be institutionalized at great cost when the doctor Furcal you indicated that the Association for the health of retarded children volunteer agencies that you depend on the public for support suppose you had a chunk of money right now what would you do it I think it's a nice well way of asking a question nice way I hope to get something to use it and realistically if I had the kind of money that I think we need in a city I would have to divide it up in several areas what range do you. Talk about when you said the kind of money that we need in the city of New York. City New York couldn't begin to give the kind of money that I would require not I but which would be require you think a twenty fifty thousand people figure the special care that they all would require families and so forth I think we're dealing with. So I think we have to sort of parrot down a bit let's say we had five hundred thousand dollars extra for argument's sake you can divide the side very easily you can say we want to have a direct service program. And I have to say that this is the priority and what the community needs a direct service pro bono I I'm not on some planning that's going on now in the UK city and my post as chairman of the Subcommittee on mental retardation for this region and in the midst now of recommending to the state what New York City should have thought of that they were thought of and I don't feel I should divulge anything here that I'm not committed to first of all but I can say that having been in the seat of chairman and knowing what's going on what's needed I wouldn't want to give a priority I think they're all parties if I were to set up one against the other I don't think it would be proper I run out of judgment if you had a half a million dollars additional Right now you said you'd start something in the way of direct service to the community that's bad concurrently more research in other areas than P.K.U. and other metal metabolic disorder areas I try to get at some of the causes of Mongol ism but this is such a large number of children on Vaal now because among those I'm different from the causes of mental retardation. Mentalism is a fundamental retardation but it's different from the P.K. Yes but I would get money into research money in terms of direct services to children money into public education. Public awareness money into family counseling and guidance and I would divide the last fifty up until I have professional training of persons we need so I would do this all concurrently but it's difficult to say this is needed more than the other I would want to be and I kind of position I think they're all needed we have waited too long to do any of these things and say yes this is more important and the other wouldn't be proper to say it either or other needs that. Exist over and above the five that you mentioned certainly. Publications. Quip and space the Saudis this could all be under the broad heading programs and services I think we have to do a lot more in prevention and fail if we can just get the public at large to understand. The request is made through the budget lot of estimate that there be more willing to pay the additional money that they've been requested to pay in the form of taxation because it's helping the neighbors is helping children and. It's helping those who are in need of a great deal of help and if we don't help them. It's going to cost us more in the long run because the net income the additional problems that happen become public charges to some but they become are a complex of the problems we have to constantly keep the individuals with audit in a program are in an activity or alert to what's going on the moment we pull away something or deny something as a period of regression can set in and if you deny a child and I can indicate this has been done before through studies if you deny a child at the very very beginning of his life love and affection and attention this child will die it must have attention now you just take this and projected to the life of an individual they need services they should be provided them where it can be done but if you do not do it they said at home you have a family involved here you have additional problems you have family crises a family upheavals mental health problems around it and that we don't have to have this we can do and we can do an outstanding job we have the talent of the people we have some leading people. Who can do a job now the Association for help of retarded children is a New York City based So CA shamisen Yes What's the National Association for Retarded Children national organization how are you associated with it but we found the one nine hundred forty nine and we preceded the National Association and help from the National Association our first executive director was a member of the board of the National and it formed in many many applets Minnesota one thousand nine hundred. And we are one of about forty six chapters in the state in the OP We have a state association and of course the National Association there are more than a thousand chapters within the National all trying to do the same thing so that in every community there are programs and services provided when I was fundraising engaged in by the National Association independently of the local association now. They have a team of consultants on the National Association they give us all arbitrarily that we require posters up placards are kind of the cans and so on and we have card cards for the subways and buses and we order them from the National Association we also get our manuals and our other descriptive material we can invite the consultants in to help our fund raising the Patna job but we've been raising. Particular period in the year when you conduct a campaign it's a year round basis but there's a high right during the top a children's week which ends on Thanksgiving day and when the late President Kennedy was with us we were celebrating this occasion and he proclaimed I feel the touch on his weight we have been very fortunate may lag NY has proclaimed every month during the month of November the top of children's month and with the idea to promote interest in the public to help support our program we work with all the agencies we cooperate we have a number of projects together and hand in hand we try to do what he can do best known addition to financial contributions How can the public help you. I think the public can help by accepting the fact of the matter we taught of our in our community there is nothing shameful about this they need help they can be helped as Hope ahead that the community must do more in the city of New York and we ought to encourage them to do more with your support the programs that are legitimate and well thought through and have the official blossoms of the city and I think this way if we can recognize that there is an unmet need here and take a position of leadership we can do a better job on that now Dr Frankel will bring this interview to a close but a great publish for us to have as our guest on this edition was sitting close up Dr William Franco the executive director of the Association for the help of retarded children we'll see well again next week the. City close a weekly series of interviews in which Seymour Henry Siegel interviews people in the public eye today Mr Siegel's guest was Dr William a Franco executive director of the Association for the health of retarded children city close up was directed by done there.