Monday Morning Politics: Jan. 6 Committee Preview, The Senate's Spending Bill, And More

[music]

Brigid Bergen: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergen from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom filling in for Brian who is off today. From all of us here, we want to wish a very happy new year to our Jewish listeners. On today's show, we'll hear what's happening with the new New York City Council maps. They're being redrawn, but the commission in charge of that process just voted down its own maps. Dennis Walcott, the chair of the commission will explain. Plus, what if the abortion pill got a rebrand and was just called a period pill? We'll hear from someone working on this who will explain why she thinks that could offer a compromise in the abortion debate.

Lastly, have you joined the ranks of toddler parents and diners who have long enjoyed the early bird dinner specials at 5:00 PM, this hits a little close to home. A New York Times article says, "You are not alone, we'll take your calls on whether your social life has shifted earlier lately." First, we'll start the week with some Monday morning politics and a couple of deadlines that are looming in the nation's Capitol. First, a deadline to fund the government. Congress has until Saturday, October 1st to pass a spending bill that keeps the government open.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer has spent the past week or so hammering out the details, including negotiations with West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin, who would like to include some provisions for energy permitting, not a huge surprise given his ties to the energy sector in his home estate. We'll hear more about that proposed provision and whether it can get enough support to pass a 60-vote threshold in the Senate.

The other deadline is, of course, the midterms. We don't know yet what Congress will look like next year, but we do know that will look very different, particularly for the January 6th committee which lost its only two Republican members Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger two primary challengers. Not only that, but if Republicans retake the house, it could spell the end of the committee's legal authorities to issue subpoenas, among other things.

That's not a certain deadline, but because Democrats could control the House, we're just not sure yet. What do they do in the meantime? The first hearing since the summer is scheduled for this Wednesday at 1:00 in the afternoon, we'll hear what they have in store for that hearing and for the remainder of the current congressional term. Plus, we'll get an update on some of those midterm races and what the polling says about what Congress could look like next year, and some other topics for this Monday morning politics conversation. Joining me now to cover all of that is Susan Page, the Washington bureau chief for USA Today and the author of Madam Speaker: Nancy Pelosi and the Lessons of Power. Susan, thanks for joining us.

Susan Page: Hi Brigid, it's great to be with you.

Brigid Bergen: Listeners, we can take your Monday morning politics questions for Susan Page, Washington bureau chief for USA Today. Anything on the midterms, the spending bill in the Senate, the January 6th committee hearings that resume this week, or any other questions for Susan Page? The number 212-433-WNYC, that's 212-433-9692 or you can tweet your questions @BrianLehrer.

Okay, Susan, we got a lot to cover here so let's dive in first with that spending bill. One of those deadlines that I mentioned is October 1st, the deadline for Congress to fund the government. Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, along with the caucus of Senate Democrats have been working out some deal they plan to unveil tomorrow and vote on tomorrow night after sundown because of the Jewish holiday. Can you tell us about the main sticking points Democrats have been haggling over the last few days and weeks?

Susan Page: Yes, Brigid. We've been here before, the fiscal cliff that we always seem to be standing on the edge. As you said the government runs out of money on Saturday. Actually, I think that legislative leaders on both sides are pretty optimistic that they have a deal that will pass that will fund the government until mid-December that will include aid for Ukraine, some money for Jackson, Mississippi, of course, they've been struggling with water problems, money to resettle Afghan refugees. What we don't know whether it will include is that provision that you mentioned from Joe Manchin on energy permitting. He has an interest in making energy permitting an easier process.

He especially has in mind the natural gas pipeline that runs through West Virginia, the mountain valley pipeline. He got a promise from Chuck Schumer the Senate majority leader that it'd be included on Musk vote provision like the continuing resolution. Schumer says he's going to follow through on that but there's every expectation that if it falls short if the Manchin proposal cannot get the 60-votes to overcome a filibuster, that Schumer will ditch it and they'll just go ahead and pass the other elements of the spending bill.

Brigid Bergen: It seems like the West Virginia Democrat, Senator Joe Manchin comes up in a lot of these conversations when there is a close vote. You mentioned his particular interest in some of the energy provisions because of the projects in his state, but can you talk a little bit about his ties to the energy sector?

Susan Page: Yes, of course, he financially benefits from the energy sector in West Virginia, and so does his family. It's also a big part of the West Virginia economy, and even of the West Virginia culture. It is not new that he is standing up for fossil fuel for coal, for those kinds of energy provisions, and it's something that's put them at odds with much of the rest of the Democratic caucus. Because the Senate has, as we all know, only 50 Democrats it has given him enormous power in pushing through some provisions that he's interested in. Now, he was also a crucial element in getting through that big bill, the successor to the build back better bill, which included the biggest climate change provisions in US history. Democrats give him some credit for that but he has often been an outlier on these issues when it comes to energy in the Democratic Party.

Brigid Bergen: If this provision that he's pushing does fail, are there any other procedural hurdles that this spending bill has to overcome before it's passed?

Susan Page: There are always procedural hurdles when we're talking about Congress and that's one reason that Steny Hoyer that the House Democratic Majority Leader has warned members they may not get out on time on Friday. The Democrats and actually members of Congress, both parties hope that Friday will be their last day so they can go home and campaign those who are running for reelection.

Yes, they built in some time, and they are prepared to stay through the weekend if they need to. Sometimes we get to this point and it's hard to see how they're going to pull a [unintelligible 00:07:31] hat and get the funding go through. This time knock on wood for the federal government looks like a path that is not entirely smooth, where you can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Brigid Bergen: If things don't go as planned for Schumer in the Senate House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has said she'll lean on something called a same-day authority in order to move a house version of the spending bill. Can you tell us what that looks like and what would that mean, in terms of making that October 1st deadline?

Susan Page: That's a great question, Brigid and I'm not sure what the answer is. Do you know?

Brigid Bergen: I don't know. You and I--

Susan Page: [laughs] One thing I'll say I don't know about same-day authority and how it would work in this case, I will say that house rules give the speaker of the house a lot of power that nobody in the Senate holds. The Senate is much more a body where the minority party holds some power. The House leaders have things like the Magic Minute, where if Nancy Pelosi stands up and starts to speak, for one, no one can stop her until she stops. You may remember she filibustered on an immigration proposal a couple of years ago, much to the annoyance of Republicans. I assume same-day authority, something like that but I don't actually know.

Brigid Bergen: I didn't mean to give you a pop question. Our very helpful producers gave it to me. When we find out the answer, I will share it so that we both are a little bit smarter on that particular issue. In terms of--

Susan Page: You know Brigid what I assume, Brigid, I know that you have such a smart audience that I bet people on Twitter are already informing us about what same-day authority is and so I look forward to being educated about it.

Brigid Bergen: You and me both Susan. Let's talk for a minute about the fear of a government shutdown. It always as you mentioned, it seems to loom in these situations. I think you know the pulse of Washington. How realistic is it this time? Are there other potential outcomes here that could stay something like that?

Susan Page: I think it is likely that they will get some funding bill through by Saturday by October 1st. Actually, they are reasonably optimistic that they're going to get a real appropriations bill through in the middle of December, which means that you are not doing this step-by-step governing funding by continuing resolution. There are lots of conflicts in Washington where you don't see any resolution, you think about immigration, for instance, that seems to defy any resolution on the horizon.

This is not a case where this is not the worst fiscal situation that we've seen and I think a lot of members of Congress are pretty focused, not on this funding bill that they expect to get through. They're very focused on November 8th and the midterm election and what that will mean for all of them looking at next year.

Brigid Bergen: Listeners, if you're just joining us, I'm Brigid Bergen, filling in for Brian on The Brian Lehrer Show today. We're talking with Susan Page, Washington bureau chief for USA Today. This is our Monday morning politics conversation. We're going to cover a whole lot of ground. If you have a question about the midterms, the spending bill, the January 6th committee hearings that resume this week, or something else, you can throw a pop question at us. We'll do our best. Call Susan Page and I, the number is 212-433-WNYC that's 212-433-9692. Or tweet your questions @BrianLehrer.

Susan, I want to just take one moment to talk about some troubling international developments and the view from Washington. After suffering a major setback in Ukraine, Vladimir Putin has drafted huge numbers of Russian reservists into military service. He's also alluded to the possibility of deploying tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine. We've heard those rumblings before. How seriously is the Biden Administration, the Pentagon State Department viewing these threats? What is the feel in Washington as Putin's rhetoric escalates?

Susan Page: Officials are hoping this is a block, but they are not assuming that that's the case. We actually saw secretary state Tony Blinken on 60 Minutes yesterday saying that if Putin decides to use nuclear weapons, he said there was no one in Russia who will be able to stop him. We also saw the administration send out Jake Sullivan, the national security advisor to be on three of the Sunday shows yesterday with this message, a message designed for an audience of one, designed for an audience of Vladimir Putin saying there will be disastrous consequences for the use of nuclear weapons in Ukraine. Jake Sullivan didn't spell out what those consequences would be, but clearly, they're trying to send a message to Putin to not take this step.

Brigid Bergen: It's definitely a chilling moment in this conversation. Let's switch gears a little bit more and talk about these January 6th hearings plan to resume this Wednesday at 1:00 PM. They haven't officially announced what they're going to cover, but the chair Congress member, Bennie Thompson has said that there's still a lot of as-yet-unreleased evidence. What's your sense of what there is still to cover?

Susan Page: This was pretty tantalizing Bennie Thompson saying there's footage that we haven't seen. There is witness testimony we haven't heard. These hearings have been so compelling. They've been so news-making in every one of them that we're looking forward to what happens at this hearing. It's the last hearing they'll have before the election. We saw Adam Schiff who's been a leader on this committee saying that some of this hearing on Wednesday will be thematic that is trying to pull together what they've learned from their investigation. We don't know what witnesses we may hear from, or what footage we may see on Wednesday, but the committee is coming to a conclusion not necessarily because they think all their work is done, but because their authority is about to expire every possibility that their charter will not be renewed in the new Congress. Whatever they're going to tell us, whatever they're going to discover and unveil, they need to do quickly.

Brigid Bergen: I think you're alluding to this already, but in part, certainly control of Congress is at stake. Certainly, those two Republicans who sit on the committee, both lost their primaries and will not be there when the new Congress resumes next year. Do you have a sense of what this committee and is that all but certain that this committee will no longer exist if Republicans take control?

Susan Page: I think if Republicans take control, there is no possibility this committee will continue to exist because Republicans took a Republican leadership, took a hard line against it, and refused to participate. There were some second thoughts about the wisdom of doing that, but that's the stance that they took and the committee now faces one. I think if you're looking at the biggest question the committee now faces, it is whether they will make a criminal referral to the justice department, urging the prosecution of former President Trump for his actions in trying to overthrow the 2020 election.

We know this has been something that has divided the committee, Bennie Thompson, the chairman said in June that there would not be a criminal referral and several members of the committee then pushed back on that. Adam Schiff this weekend said that if they make a criminal referral, it will be unanimous that they would not as a divided committee, make a criminal referral. That might indicate that they will not make a criminal referral because of the stance that Bennie Thompson took. He seemed to think that was not a wise thing to do but we don't know.

What a step that would be if a Congressional Committee recommended criminal prosecution of a former president, that would be something we've just never seen before in our history.

Brigid Bergen: We're going to have to take a short break. This is The Brian Lehrer Show. I'm filling in for Brian. I'm Brigid Bergen filling in for Brian. When we come back, we're going to take some of your calls. We're talking with Susan Page, Washington Bureau Chief for USA Today, we have more to talk about in the January 6th committee hearings, and so much more to cover, stay with us.

[music]

It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergen from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom filling in for Brian Lehrer who's off today. I'm speaking with Susan Page, the Washington bureau chief for USA Today, and the author of Madam Speaker: Nancy Pelosi and the Lessons of Power. Listeners, we want to take your Monday morning politics questions for Susan Page. Anything on the midterms, the spending bill, the January 6th committee hearings that resume this week. The number is 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. Or you can tweet your questions @BrianLehrer. Let's go to Jim in Brick, New Jersey. Jim, welcome to WNYC.

Jim: Hi, thank you. I'd like to compliment Ms. Page on her book on Pelosi. I read it.

Susan Page: Thank you very much, Jim.

Jim: No, my question is in regard to Liz Cheney, the Dems have been doing some ads actually elsewhere, but aren't there enough Democrats in Wyoming who could do a crossover and support her?

Brigid Bergen: Susan, what do you think?

Susan Page: Jim, they try that in the Republican primary, they encouraged Democrats to change their registration vote in the Republican primary to help out Liz Cheney and some did, but there are just not very many Democrats in Wyoming. If you go outside of Jackson hold, you'll find that it's a very scarce breed indeed. No, I think Wyoming was the state that went most soft for Donald Trump of any of the 50 states in 2020, so tough terrain there for Liz Cheney to be challenging Donald Trump.

That said Liz Cheney's political career is not necessarily over. She's emerged as a hero to some Democrats, although she is in every way, except confronting Trump, a conservative Republican. She's a hero to some Republicans who have been uncomfortable with Donald Trump's leadership and his rhetoric. We may not have heard the last of Liz Cheney, but I think a political future for her is likely not going to be based in Wyoming.

Brigid Bergen: Jim, thanks so much for your call. Call us again. Susan, let's talk a little bit about the former president. Certainly, we know these January 6th investigations are drumming up more documents that could be part of a criminal referral, but that's not the only investigation going on. There's the justice department's investigation into the classified documents he brought to Mar-a-Lago after leaving the White House.

Then there's this newly announced lawsuit against the Trump organization from New York attorney general, Tish James. Yet the former president's out there doing rallies again. He's reportedly been inching closer to outright embracing QAnon conspiracy theories and whipping up outrage. It's a throwback actually. What does it mean that he can be out there spreading this potentially dangerous misinformation amid all of these efforts to hold him accountable?

Susan Page: It's amazing. First of all, he's got so many legal challenges that you really need a scorecard to keep track of them there. About half a dozen separate legal actions that he's facing and has had to defend himself against and yet, as you said, he continues to be the face of the Republican party. He continues to be the most dominant figure in the GOP. He has redefined the Republican party in his image. That's one reason people like Liz Cheney are no longer welcome in the GOP. This movement to more openly embraced QAnon is something that has been pretty chilling.

I don't know if you saw the footage of the last rally he did, where they played a song that is like a song that represents a QAnon movement, and then many people in the audience pointed one finger up in the air, their index finger up in the air, which is a QAnon sign. I had to actually Google it when I saw the audience doing that. I didn't know what it meant. QAnon, of course, had really bizarre conspiracy theory about our politics. The idea that the leading figure in one of our two major parties is embracing it, retweeting a picture of himself, a mocked-up picture of himself with a cue on his lapel. It's just pretty jaw-dropping.

Brigid Bergen: Agreed. That brings us back to some of the other investigations and who will be the audience for some of the work of the January 6th committee. I saw that committee member Zoe Lofgren of California explained that the reason Wednesday's hearing would be at 1:00 PM is in part because Fox News won't carry the hearings if they're in prime time, but so far they have carried the hearings when they are midday. Why do you think it's important? I think everything we just talked about before probably speaks to that, but why is it so important that the committee reach Fox's audience?

Susan Page: That is the core communications vehicle for many conservatives, for many Republicans, for many Trump supporters, and for many of those who have doubts about the legitimacy of the 2020 election, so no more important group to at least hear what the committee is finding out about what went on. I think that is a really smart move by the committee because the committee can't overturn the election, they can't convince everyone involved, can't stop Donald Trump from running again, but the committee can inform Americans about what went on, and especially Americans who have doubts about whether there was fraud, which there was not.

There was no widespread fraud in the election. Americans who have doubts about whether there was really violence on January 6th or was it just a political protest that went a little sour. Clearly, it was a really violent assault and insurrection and attack on the Capitol. That is I think the greatest value of the January 6th committee, and the fact that they are making an effort to reach Fox viewers makes all the sense in the world.

Brigid Bergen: Just last question on this topic, one of the committee's tasks has been to come up with recommendations for making sure a January 6th style insurrection isn't possible going forward. Are there recommendations that they've issued so far? Any?

Susan Page: We know that there's a lot of support for the Electoral Reform Act, which would make it clear that the vice president cannot overturn the results the way that Donald Trump encouraged his vice president, Mike Pence, to do on January 6th. Now, Pence refused to do that, but the law as now drafted doesn't make it entirely clear what the authority of the vice president is. This is a proposal that has bipartisan support. It looks like it's going to have filibuster-proof support in the US Senate. That is one important piece of legislation that has a good chance of being enacted.

Brigid Bergen: Let's shift gears again, spend a couple of minutes talking about the midterms. I'm curious what races you're watching and treating as bellwethers for the midterms and how they might change the shape of Congress overall.

Susan: We're looking at the House and the Senate. It'd be historic for the Democrats to hold control of the House, but the control of the Senate is really up for grabs, 50/50 Senate. Now you've got a series-- The Republicans at one point six months ago thought they were going to win a majority in the Senate. They're no longer sure. Democrats aren't really sure they're going to hold a majority, but they think there's a good chance they can. The races we're watching there would be Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, maybe especially Pennsylvania, which is the Democrat's best hope to pick up a Republican seat. That's been a really interesting race between Dr. Oz and John Fetterman and pretty close to home for you in New York.

Brigid Bergen: Absolutely. That is definitely one of the more interesting and at times quite entertaining races to watch in our region. It's The Brian Lehrer--

Susan Page: Neither one of them--

Brigid Bergen: Go ahead.

Susan Page: Neither one of them are really typical politicians really. I mean Dr. Oz is a TV celebrity and John Fetterman who wears a hoodie all the time and is talking about his tattoos. Voters have a choice of candidates that are not like the standard issue.

Brigid Bergen: Absolutely. I think one of the things that is so fascinating about Fetterman is the remaking of the everyman with, as you said, the hoodies and the tattoos and a different idea of who can and should be running for office. It's been very interesting, and certainly someone in an adept team, if not as a candidate himself with using social media. It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergen from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom, also the host of our new Sunday politics show, The People's Guide to Power live on Sundays at noon.

I'm filling in for Brian who's off today. I'm talking with Susan Page, the Washington Bureau Chief for USA Today, also the author of a listener-acclaimed book, Madam Speaker: Nancy Pelosi of the Lessons of Power. Susan, just in terms of the Biden presidency so far, do you have a sense of how the Biden administration would fare with an opposition Congress, how fundamentally different his presidency would look if the co-equal legislative branch is just completely explicitly antagonistic to his agenda?

Susan Page: I think it will be entirely different. That will be true, especially if both the House and Senate flip to Republicans, but it will be true even if only the House flips to GOP control. The Biden administration has actually gotten through a remarkable number of big pieces of legislation. Sometimes it's been a bumpy ride, but it's really been legislative-heavy insignificant legislation that has affected the lives of how Americans get healthcare and about what we're doing about climate change and other things.

If Republicans take control of the House, I think the passage of big legislation would be very, very difficult. If Republicans take control of the Senate, it means that that could spell trouble for judicial nominations and other confirmations. Biden administration has in fact managed to get a record number of judges confirmed in these first two years, so it'll be a very different world. This investigative arm of Congress that we've seen demonstrated by the January 6th committee, if that's in Republican hands, they will turn their spotlight on the Biden administration, on Hunter Biden, on the Homeland Security Department, on Immigration policies, on a whole different set of issues.

Brigid Bergen: Listeners, we are talking with Susan Page, the Washington Bureau Chief for USA Today on the midterms, the spending bill in the Senate, the January 6th committee hearings, all things Washington and beyond. The numbers 212-433-9692, that's 212-433-WNYC. Let's go to Alicia in Queens. Alicia, welcome to WNYC.

Alicia: Thank you. Good morning. I was just wondering if any of these Republicans, these moderate Republicans who lost their primaries thought about doing what Lisa Murkowski did in Alaska and mounting a robust write-in campaign. She won her Senate seat with a write-in campaign. It gives the moderate Republicans an alternative. I know they don't want to vote for a Democrat, but it gives them an alternative aside from these QAnon people that are running for office.

Susan Page: Alicia, thanks very much for your call. Lisa Murkowski won with a write-in and she had to get people to spell her name right on the ballot. They wouldn't accept a ballot that said Lisa Markowski with a letter wrong. That was an incredible political achievement when she did that in the face of opposition within her own party. It's a tough road to go. To run as an independent, to run as a write-in, it is a difficult thing to do. Lisa Markowski had a name that was very familiar to Alaskans.

I'm trying to think of even a single one of these Republicans who have lost have gone that route and I can't think of one who has. You get the feeling that Republicans who are never Trumpers who think of themselves as conservative Republicans but disagree with following former president Trump. You get the feeling that some of them want to go form a third party. Some of them are hoping that this will pass. That there'll be a new wave in the Republican party at some point Donald Trump will no longer be the leader. Maybe it will return to old principles. It's been a discouraging time to be an anti-Trump Republican that's for sure.

Brigid Bergen: It's so interesting that you say that Susan. As I mentioned, I host a Sunday politics show called The People's Guide To Power. My guest yesterday was Congressman Tom Malinowski from New Jersey who is in that really competitive race in the seventh congressional district. He's running against Tom Kean Jr. who is the son of the former governor who was considered an extremely moderate Republican and yet Tom Kean Jr. has fashioned himself more in the modern wing of the Republican Party we will say.

One of the things that Congressman Malinowski was talking about in terms of how he is trying to appeal to those independent and moderate voters is the formation of the moderate party and the effort underway in New Jersey to essentially recruit people who maybe do not feel comfortable voting for a Democrat on the Democratic line but would want to vote for that candidate who is not the far right candidate on another line.

Of course, unfortunately, because fusion voting is not allowed in New Jersey at this point, subject to a lawsuit. That's not going to necessarily help Congressman Malinowski in terms of a ballot line in November. I think it gets to the appeal that we've heard from a couple of callers today this idea of how to appeal to moderates or maybe Republican voters who are not quite in line with the leaders of the Republican party by taking away the label of the Democrats and giving them someone to support in another way. It's an interesting parallel that I think we're seeing in other parts of the country.

Susan Page: Yes, it is. In our national polling, we see unprecedented support for another party, for people saying the two major parties do not represent me. A majority of Americans now say they wish there was a third party although they would have I think different ideas about what that third party should stand for. We know it's really hard for a third party to get traction. We've seen a few third-party candidates like Ross Perot get some traction but not actually win the White House. That doesn't mean it's impossible. Our politics changes over time and the level of dissatisfaction with our current political system is pretty high.

Brigid Bergen: In our last couple of minutes we've looked ahead to the midterms so now let's look all the way ahead to 2024 and think about some of the Republicans who seem to be eyeing that presidential field. I think there's this notion that the former president Trump is likely to announce he will run again though perhaps not until after the midterms but that Florida governor Ron DeSantis might challenge him. What do you think is the contrast between these two politicians and if you are a MAGA voter what would distinguish one from the other?

Susan Page: It's so interesting. There's truly such rivalry between them and we released a poll last week of Florida USA Today Suffolk University poll that showed DeSantis defeating Trump in a hypothetical Republican primary in Florida for 2024 which was a big swing, a 15-point swing from what we found last spring when we asked that question or last January when we asked that question early in the year.

Ron DeSantis the governor of Florida is offering this recipe. He's saying, "I support Trump's policies including his aggressive stance on immigration, but I don't carry all the baggage that Donald Trump does. All the legal and rhetorical baggage that he does." That has served him pretty well. It looks to me like Trump is going to run again. It is possible that DeSantis will run whether or not Trump does. That will be an important sign of the party. Although it would not change the philosophical, the policy direction of the party because the two men are pretty close on that but it could change the face that Republicans want leading that movement.

Brigid Bergen: So interesting and so much to watch. We're going to have to leave it there for today with Susan Page, Washington bureau chief for USA Today and author of Madam Speaker: Nancy Pelosi and the Lessons of Power. Susan, thank you so much for covering so much ground with us today.

Susan Page: Thank you, Brigid. It was my pleasure.

 

Copyright © 2022 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.