New York's Gubernatorial Campaign Heads to the Finish Line

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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Here's one sign that both Kathy Hochul and Lee Zeldin think either of them could win the election for Governor of New York. They are both bringing out big political celebrities who usually make campaign appearances only in races considered competitive. At Barnard College in Manhattan yesterday, Hochul was flanked by Vice President Kamala Harris, and as in this clip, former Secretary of State and First Lady Hillary Clinton.

Hillary Clinton: They are determined to exercise control over who we are, how we feel and believe, and act in ways that I thought we had long left behind, but they have gone even further. They want to put more guns on our streets, more pollution in our air and our water. More power for the super-rich and less for everybody else. That is their vision. It shouldn't be a surprise to anybody who's actually paid attention.

Brian Lehrer: Hillary Clinton with Hochul at Barnard yesterday, making a point to women at a women's college last Saturday in an appearance that was reported as hastily arranged. Maybe in response to polls showing the race competitive. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis came to Suffolk County to appear with Lee Zeldin.

Ron DeSantis: That's not good policy of New York to be driving these people away. We are seeing that every day. I'm seeing the people that are coming to Florida and look, I'm happy to have folks, these are my people. They're voting for me, so I like them. Don't get me wrong, but man, do you really want to continue with policies that are doing that? I would say the number one thing I hear where people get so fed, is they are sick and tired of the crime that you see, particularly in New York City.

Brian Lehrer: Ron DeSantis with Zeldin. Part of the scene at that rally, by the way, according to Politico, was that a grinning, Andrew Giuliani could be seen tossing t-shirts and footballs into the crowd between speakers. If you are the company you keep, well, it's another volley from both candidates as they get out their votes and maybe risk alienating some swing voters in the process.

With us now on the Hochul and Zeldin campaign and games, or the three hosts of the local politics podcast, FAQNYC Harry Siegel, who is also a Daily News columnist and a senior editor at the news organization, The City. Christina Greer, political science professor at Fordham. Author of the book, Black Ethnics, and host of a Black History trivia podcast from the Grio called The Blackest Questions. Katie Honan, reporter at The City who was the city hall reporter at the Wall Street Journal until recently. Katie, Harry, Christina, you people are busy, so thanks for making some time for us. Welcome back to WNYC.

Christina Greer: Thanks, Brian.

Katie Honan: Thank you, Brian.

Harry Siegel: Thanks Brian, hey.

Brian Lehrer: Christina, take us to Barnard yesterday and what the goal for Kathy Hochul would've been with those guest speakers. I don't know if you were on the call yet here when we played the clip of Hillary Clinton just now, but Hillary Clinton was there, Kamala Harris was there. What's the goal at that location with those speakers at this time?

Christina Greer: This is the final day stretch women's suffrage. You've got the cast of characters. You've got Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris. Lots of firsts, Hillary Clinton securing the Nomination for the Democratic Party. You've got Kamala Harris is the first female vice president. Kathy Hochul as the first female governor.

Barnard, which is obviously a very historic all-women's institution not just in the city of New York, but around the globe. Really, trying to, into the fact that this is a historic race in many ways. Kathy Hochul is trying to link her leadership to the leadership of the likes of Andrew Stewart-Cousins, Hillary Clinton, and Kamala Harris as well at such a specific and historic place. It remains to be seen, is this too little, too late. Do people really care about this historic first?

We do know the data suggests that some people will never vote for a woman. Hillary Clinton found that out the hard way at the top of the ticket. I think Kathy Hochul is hoping to avoid that same fate because don't forget the last time she officially ran, she ran as lieutenant governor, so this is her first time facing the voters as the top of the ticket, as the gubernatorial nominee.

Brian Lehrer: Katie, anything to add to that?

Katie Honan: Yes, I think what she was trying to show was a show of force. It does feel a bit late in the game to be having this. When you look at the footage of Zeldin rally, like last weekend on Long Island where it's just a sea of people to compare it to, and that's just purely anecdotal obviously, but to compare it to a few hundred people, that was the organizer's estimate at Barnard it doesn't seem comparable in terms of where the energy and the enthusiasm is for this governor's race and for which candidates.

Brian Lehrer: Harry, you want to keep going.

Harry Siegel: It's awfully late for this and this seems in some sense, like proforma. The Manhattan Borough president just had a Wake Up Dems Rally and that you need to be waking up Dems at this point is distressing because Kathy Hochul has tried to float above the contest. Which I understand as the sitting governor in a state where there is a significant democratic voting organization advantage. She has not wanted to engage. As she's engaging now and trying to wake up voters and remind them what the stakes are all, which is right and important, it is coming very late.

My guess is it'll end up being enough from the polling we've seen but there will be a lot of questions and post-gaming afterwards about how this ended up as the best a nail biter of a race. I think a lot of, looking back to 2021, when Democrats had a number of scares, got hurt in Long Island. All their ballot initiatives failed, that there was building anger and voter resentment outside of the city and in some pockets of it that the party didn't respond to as it was hoping. I think to just look through this year. A rally nearly at the end of early voting is very wit.

Brian Lehrer: Harry, I'm going to stay with you. Take us to Suffolk County. We just talked about what Kathy Hochul, Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton appearances were about at Barnard yesterday. Take us to Suffolk County from a few days earlier. What was Lee Zeldin after having Ron DeSantis speaking there and Andrew Giuliani tossing footballs and t-shirts into the crowd like Mr. Met?

Harry Siegel: Woo. He's trying to do Lee Zeldin two things. He is trying to do the Glenn Youngkin and be a calm, soothing inside voice for persuadable Democrats and Independents. I don't like abortion, but I can't really do much about it. One-party rule is a problem. How much worse could I be? Again, Hochul hasn't really engaged some of the obvious answers to that like the MTA will collapse if we don't have this congestion pricing money don't really get addressed.

This Suffolk, he's a Long Island guy. Congressman out there, this is his base. This is the Red Mead. To get the make sure that the enthusiastic Republicans, people who know and appreciate that Zeldin is a big Trump supporter, has not been clear on who even won the 2020 election. Things like that, to make sure those people, are inspired and fired up.

It's perhaps not entirely surprising, but, but sort of distressing to see how much energy there is for that right outside of New York City. Just being around the state in recent weeks, there are Zeldin signs everywhere. Even in New York City, I'm not seeing that many Hochul ones.

Brian Lehrer: We're going to get to yard signs as a whole other question here because it seems to be a thing. Christina, before we leave these guest speakers, for many voters, depending on from which party, of course, Hillary Clinton and Ron DeSantis are very alienating figures. Not to mention Andrew Giuliani, who's even more in on the big lie in ways that DeSantis isn't quite. What's the calculation there on both sides?

Christina Greer: Well, I think the difference between Hillary Clinton and Ron DeSantis, Brian, is that Hillary Clinton was a senator for the state of New York. She actually presumably has roots and some of these voters who are at these rallies for Kathy Hochul would have voted for Hillary Clinton in the past. Ron DeSantis is a symbol that Lee Zeldin is trying to bring in on.

He's trying to do two things at once, on the one hand saying, I'm not that bad. Of course, as Harry said, I can't really do anything about abortion. [unintelligible 00:09:47] won't bring me a bill so you all don't have to worry but he's really signaling to a lot of the red parts of New York who really do want Republican leadership. Don't forget, we had three terms of George Pataki, who was a different type of Republican who doesn't- they exist anymore but Lee Zeldin is saying it's like, "If you're bringing Ron DeSantis, you're telling those folks, I am an election denier, I do support the insurrection of January 6, I do support this Trump agenda.

I do support these anti-immigrant policies." For a lot of New Yorkers, they're into it and so we have to be realistic about what the state really looks like. I think Lee's Zeldin has mobilized and motivated and wakened up a lot of the Republicans who just thought, "Oh, well, we don't have Republican leadership, but they see an opportunity. I don't think that they'll necessarily cross the finish line, but he definitely has excavated this, Texas, Alabama, Florida entity that definitely is alive and well in this state and we need to be realistic about the fact that it exists.

Brian Lehrer: Before we get to yard signs, Katie, take a step back and talk to our listeners about this whole enterprise of these get-out-the-vote operations. Are there lots of people, even in these politically intense times with so much at stake, who kind of support one of these candidates probably but they need a little kick in the pants that even bother to vote?

Katie Honan: Yes, I'm looking at both of the get-out-the-vote enterprises and I guess that would then lead us into lawn signs, where you've seen the enthusiasm and I spend most of my time in New York City. Obviously, each neighborhood is different, but that enthusiasm appears to be for Zeldin. What you had yesterday and there'll be more this weekend I saw Kathy Hochul is going to be at the Sunnyside Farmers Market on Saturday. I know she's a big rally Saturday as well in Brooklyn. These are things it is trying to show that enthusiasm.

I think some people when they vote or they're thinking about voting, they like to see that the person they're thinking about voting for could potentially win. What helps is seeing huge rally of people saying, "We're going to win. We're going to do this." With early voting, I'm sure some of the people who went yesterday to Barnard had already voted. I don't know what it does to sway people who are maybe on the fence about a candidate. I don't know if someone's going to say, "I might vote for Lee Zeldin. I might vote for Kathy Hochul. Let me go to the rallies and see what works."

You're getting people who are already supporting them but I think it's reminding, it's the media coverage of it, it's the social media coverage of what's going on and all around the state. Lee Zeldin has been up and down the state, I've seen his schedule over the last few weeks, obviously, on my island where he's from where the districts he represented, he had a huge showing. I think this weekend, we will see bigger rallies for Kathy Hochul. The weather's supposed to be beautiful. We'll see what happens and then that might be the image that she hopes will bring more people to vote. Early voting on Sunday, and then regular voting on Tuesday.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners on the issue of getting out the vote, call in if you have considered not voting at all in this election, or if you know anyone like that, I wonder if we'll get any calls. I know this is a relatively politically obsessed audience. Maybe not here, but maybe 212-433 WNYC. Call in if you have considered not voting at all, in the Zeldin, Hochul governor's election, or this year at all or if you know anyone like that 212-433-WNYC 433-9692.

Does it get out the vote campaign, motivate or remind anyone listening right now to vote? 212-433 WNYC is the question of whether you will vote or not, a question of ability to get to a polling place if you don't have a mail-in ballot, and that kind of get-out-the-vote operation where people go door to door in the election voting on the election voting days, which includes today, tomorrow and Sunday as well as next Tuesday, or anything on that topic. 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692.

For the three co-hosts of the FAQNYC podcast, Harry Siegal, who's also with the Daily News and The City, Christina Greer also teaches at Fordham and she's with the Grieux and Katie Honan, also with the news organization The City. 212-- Oh, my God, all our lines are full. How about that? Christina, let me stay on this topic of getting out the vote, generally for you as a political science professor, what is it really and who are they really talking to and is it about these rallies, and to what degree is it about what I just said in my pitch to the listeners reaching people who may have physical difficulty going to the polls?

Christina Greer: Right, I think it's it's a combo and a slightly different tactic for both candidates. For Kathy Hochul, it's sometimes difficult for an incumbent because if the folks are like, "Well, we're in a democratic state, she'll probably win. Things are difficult, but no, they're not egregious, so I might stay home." Her rallies and her motivation to try and get people to turn out is to make sure we maintain the fact that Kathy Hochul is the governor and to make sure Democrats don't get too comfortable with the fact that well, the Democrats control Albany and Kathy is in charge so I can sit this one out.

That's part of it. Obviously, with Lee Zeldin, his get-out-the-vote efforts are, the polling is quite wild, like we've talked about Kathy Hochul is sometimes up by 10 points and down by two. He's essentially trying to galvanize his base to say we'll get out to vote. A win is within reach and it is possible if we all do our part, to mobilize motivate. I think you know, Harry and Katie, and I've talked about this quite a bit on the podcast. I have not received any literature from Kathy Hochul.

I'm curious as to what that strategy is for someone who was a very excited voter in primaries and run-offs, and you name it multiple times a year, this is what my third or fourth time going to the ballot box in 2022 alone, the fact that I haven't received literature is a question mark for me from an incumbent to say, well, I'm a triple prime plus voter or whatever they call us. You would want to remind me to make sure if I'm a steadfast voter, just to make sure that I'm going to always behave the way that I have in the past.

We shall see what turnout looks like. Obviously, New York has been abysmal and embarrassing when it comes to turnout. Especially in midterm years, obviously, we've seen a municipal elections. Brian, you and I talked about this every four years. Turnout will be a real key to whether or not Kathy Hochul remains in office as governor of New York State or Lee Zeldin has a surprise winning and becomes a statewide elected Republican after so many years post-Pataki.

Brian Lehrer: One thing we know from the National reporting about this early voting period is that voting is relatively high, quite high for a midterm elections period. Higher than 2018. So far in the early voting, if they can make that comparison, with a partial early vote in 2018 was such an intense midterm election year the whole backlash against Trump. Before we start taking some calls, Harry yard signs.

I was in a couple of places in Westchester last week, and I saw some Zeldin yard signs, no Hochul yard signs in the few places I was in on scientific sample but I keep hearing from people on the island and in Westchester and further upstate, that the yard sign gap is really a thing. Is it? Does it tell us anything?

Harry Siegel: We're going to see what it tells us. I'll be cautious about that but it is definitely real and it's pretty immense. As I've been in Sullivan County recently, the only Hochul signs I saw were in roadway medians. Those are things like her campaign is just dropping there. There's signs on like every sixth house, it seems like it's wild and it's significant. Even in Brooklyn, walking around Midwood with, there's been some fight about who's putting these up.

You see Zeldin's signs all over the place. Even on Flatbush Avenue, I'm seeing them in Windsor terrace. This is basically an extension of Park Slope and we'd be liberal Brooklyn. I've seen more Zeldins signs, then Hochul signs. It does point to some enthusiasm gap. Brian, as you were saying about turnout being really high and as our local elections feel increasingly nationalized, what may well be Hochul's saving grace here is, with enthusiasm only matters if your people turn up and the other people don't.

If these Democrats do wake up and show up, even without the signs, then that signaling may not correspond to where this election ends up going. It is quite possible in from the polls we've seen and the internal polling I'm aware of the sense is a little easier for Kathy Hochul than expected and the opposite of what happened with Phil Murphy in Jersey last year where he won by one percentage point in a race that the public polling, the internal polling, everything else it's a state with the Democratic voting advantage.

It was just presumed he had these natural things would take place and then he just squeaked through. Maybe Zeldin peaked a little too early. Maybe the post-drumbeat was a little too early and if everyone shows up, all this will just end up feeling like noise and a little bit. Of course, a win is a win, whatever the margin is, and that's the power for 4 years.

Brian Lehrer: Cristina, on an aspect of the perceived at least enthusiasm gap as measured by yard signs and other things. There are some numbers from national Polls the last few days showing a Black enthusiasm gap, in particular, compared to whites right now, I'm not sure about Latino or Asian numbers there. As a political scientist, do you believe those polls and what do you make of the incentives or disincentives for Black voters nationally and also in the New York governor's race to bother to vote at all this year?

Christina Greer: Yes, I mean, I don't know if I believe that one just yet. Brian, we'll have to see on the 9th. Let's be clear. Black voters, by and large, across the country tend to overperform percentage-wise. I think what some of those polls might be picking up is a lack of familiarity with Kathy Hochul. I mean, some of what the previous polls picked up with Andrew Cuomo was a deep affection for his father, Mario Cuomo, when it came to Black voters. I do think that Kathy Hochul probably needs a little more time to introduce herself, reintroduce herself to certain Black communities.

I think, not just this past week, but over the past few months, she's been trying to introduce herself. I mean, we have to remember, Brian, when Kathy Hochul, obviously, coming from Buffalo, which does have a significant Black population, but when Kathy Hochul was the lieutenant governor, she was literally opening a Quiznos a few weeks before she became governor. It's not like she was at the table having significant policy discussions or visiting Black communities to talk about issues that are near and dear to Black voters.

In the past few months, I think she's tried to put in some of that groundwork and that foundation. I know that she clearly has ways to go. I do want to see the numbers on November 9 because Black voters do tend to overperform when they go to the polls because they do know what's at stake, especially, obviously, Black women, which is something I write about often. We are the canaries in the mind to alert everyone else of the dangers ahead. I think there are a lot of Black women who are keenly aware of the dangers ahead if Lee Zeldin as governor and they've been trying to do that in their various circles, and we'll see if that message has gotten out in enough time.

Brian Lehrer: Katie, anything to add on the yard sign election?

Katie Honan: I will say purely anecdotal. I remember around this time last year seeing a lot of courtesy. We were assigned to an Island Expressway and Queen, so we all know what that shows, but yes.

Brian Lehrer: That was not close.

Katie Honan: Not at all. Is it a question? Sure. Plenty of people who will vote for Governor Hochul don't have lawns. There's that practicality of where you're going to put the signs, but it just reinforces and it looks like there is just so much energy behind one person. If you're someone who maybe wasn't even aware of the governor's race. You're registered, but you vote sporadically. Maybe seeing all those elven signs will then make you want to vote for him. Again, this is very unscientific to the listeners at home.

Obviously, I'm not a political scientist, but it does point to a larger issue with Governor Hochul's campaign and where have they been, where's that energy been, where have the people supporting her been, why haven't we seen this sooner? The fact that, again, tomorrow there will be large rallies for her when early voting started a week ago, I think might be a problem in terms of when you are encouraging your voters to come out and vote.

Brian Lehrer: Listener from Suffolk County writes, my mom's friend said they called the Hochul campaign to see if they could get some signs. Not sure who they called, but there were none left. My mom writes, "What, Zeldin signs are everywhere? How could they have none left?" There's another little anecdote from a Hochul family on Long Island.

Rosie in Brooklyn on voting or not even voting. Rosie are on WNYC. Hi there. Do we have Rosie? Maybe we have Rosie, maybe we don't. Maybe not. Let me try Laura in [unintelligible 00:23:52]. Laura, you're on WNYC, do we have you? All right. Okay. I see what's going on. Sorry, it's just a little question of who has to click what now. I think we have Rosie in Brooklyn. Is that right? Is that you, Rosie? There's one sign that she's in Brooklyn.

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Rosie: Hi, sorry. You can tell I'm in Brooklyn.

Brian Lehrer: There you go.

Rosie: Sorry about that. Yes. I'm really embarrassed to say this, but I'm considering not bothering to vote for two reasons. One is that I live in a fairly liberal part of Brooklyn, although what you guys have been talking about with the signs in Park Slope, I mean, in Windsor Terrace is frankly scaring me to maybe voting. I feel like my vote is going to be a drop in the book. It's not going to make a difference, number one, number two, in general, about this country in general, I skew progressive.

I'm a woman of color, but I'm just really annoyed with the Democrats that they want to activate the base to get in power, and then when they are in power, it's just like they don't do anything and or they're just like Republicans, but a little blander, you know what I mean? It's just really frustrating. Anecdotally, I was reached out to by the Zeldin campaign, was not reached out to by the Hochul campaign, which is what's really weird because I've never voted Republican in my life, so that doesn't make me want to vote Republican, mind you, but you know what I mean, its just like.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, it makes you feel not all that represented by your party. Christina, how often do you hear that thing?

Christina Greer: I hear it, I validate it. I think it's real. A lot of people are frustrated. A lot of people feel that way about the Democrats. What I would explain to people is that they fundamentally are not the same, and Democrats are not bland Republicans. I think if we look at policy, yes, you live in a liberal part of New York. However, we have to look at the governors in charge of not just Park Slope, Windsor Terrace, Brooklyn.

They're in charge of the state of New York. When it comes to climate change policy and we know that we've had hurricanes and worse natural disasters when it comes to education, when it comes to subway funding, we just had an episode last week on that. When it comes to a woman's right to choose, all of these things are on the docket and on the ticket for a governor and there are real differences between Lee Zeldin and Kathy Hochul. It might not affect you specifically but when you think about the collective action piece about all New Yorkers, New Yorkers who are younger than us, New Yorkers who are older than us.

New Yorkers who don't live in the little blueberry parts of this massive cherry pie that is New York City or New York State. I think it's important to recognize that going to the polls, every vote actually does count. Sometimes we have to vote not just for our own personal interests, but for some issues that are really important to people who may not be able to vote for a host of reasons, but also for the future of the state. Because Lee Zeldin's vision looks a lot like Governor Abbott and Governor DeSantis and Governor Junkin. It's just in that fleece vest form of a very dangerous January 6 supporting, election-denying electoral space.

Brian Lehrer: I think we have another one like Rosie, Juanita in Harlem. You're on WNYC. Hello, Juanita.

Juanita: Hey, Brian. I could give my name. This is not too controversial. I wrote it down so I can be concise. Number one, I felt that I made a mistake voting against Mark Green because I felt he ran such a racist campaign and voted for Bloomberg and as a silver servant worker

[crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: Just for context for listeners who don't go back that far, that's in the 2001 New York City mayoral race, where you didn't vote for the Democrat, Mark Green, voted for Bloomberg, [crosstalk] playing footy with some racist campaigning there. I remember that incident.

Juanita: Yes. Thank you. The lesson I learned was about the importance of not voting for people who you don't know, like Kathy Hochul. I don't know her. That's one reason. Okay, basically, let me just say this. I'm considering not voting until at the end. If I see that she's like [unintelligible 00:28:27] I'm a high-information, self-motivated voter, let me say that. I'm not somebody who doesn't vote, but I will see if she truly is close to threatened by this opponent, Zeldin, whatever thing, then I will vote for her. Number two,

Brian Lehrer: You have another point go ahead.

Juanita: Number two, as a Black woman who's been cast aside throughout my career and have been made to train white women, younger white women who got the salaries and the promotions that I wasn't considered for, that's something I'm very sensitive too. I felt that Kathy Hochul pushed aside, and that was the person that I know and that I felt deserved that position based on having fought for all the issues I care about all these years, so that's the question,

[crosstalk]

Brian: [unintelligible 00:29:22] James aside when she was going to run for governor.

Juanita: I don't hear people discussing that, but that's the feeling of a lot of Black people against Kathy Hockel. Just in terms of whatever, how the machine works.

Brian Lehrer: You what you have a third. Okay, real quick, and then I have a follow-up question, please. Go ahead.

Juanita: Okay. The Democrats taking Black people for granted, the fact that I completely agree with Christina Greer. I hope I'm not mingling her last name, but I don't get any I haven't gotten any mail from her, or I don't see her reaching out,they said she's maybe getting all this money from the corporations, and spending it on ads, and blah, blah, blah. To me, that's just symbolic of the Democratic Party taking Black people for granted. That's what she represents to me as well.

Brian Lehrer: Do any of the dignitaries that they're bringing in matter to you at all, Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton?

Juanita: No, not when you have the reasons that I just [unintelligible 00:30:27].

Brian Lehrer: I hear you. Juanita, thank you so much for your call. We appreciate it a lot. We'll continue in a minute with Christina Greer, Harry Siegel, Katie Honan from the New York politics podcast FAQNYC and more of your calls on the Hochul-Zeldin endgame.

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Barack Obama: Hello, New York. This is Barack Obama. I know it's been a minute, but I have a very important message. On November 8th, there is an election for governor in New York and the stakes could not be higher. My friend, Governor Kathy Hochul, is the best person for the job hands down.

Brian Lehrer: Yes, that was Barack Obama in a last-minute ad for Kathy Hochul. That's another dignitary who's coming in for the Democrat incumbent for governor. Lee Zeldin is campaigning in his commercials on the airwaves more on crime. Here is 15 seconds after we heard 15 seconds of Obama. Here's 15 seconds from the Zeldin ad that features someone whose 93-year-old aunt was killed allegedly by someone who had been released without bail after being charged with an earlier crime.

Sue Leone: If Kathy Hochul were right here, I would tell her the story of what happened to my aunt and how brutal it was.

Guy Tuori: I hold her responsible.

Sue Leone: Kathy Hochul let my family down.

Guy Tuori: We need a governor who's going to do the right thing. We need Lee Zeldin.

Sue Leone: We would be much safer with Lee Zeldin.

Brian Lehrer: There you go. As we continue with the three co-hosts of the FAQ NYC podcast, Christina Greer, political science professor at Fordham among other things, Harry Siegel, Daily News columnist, among other things, Katie Honan, reporter at the news organization The City. Katie, compare and contrast those spots and if they're representative of how both candidates are trying to close out the race.

Katie Honan: I think, Brian, like you said, they are representative, and I think with Lee Zeldin's ad he is speaking to people what is a big fear. We see it in polls, although there is a bit of a split between Democrats and Republicans in terms of their biggest issue, but their concern is crime. You don't have to have something as horrific as the description in the Zeldin ad of your loved one getting killed to still feel afraid of both crime and the perception of crime. I think for voters, I don't know, if people realistically want to get the endorsement of a former president, as significant as President Obama was, I think they're going to be listening to their friends and their families.

Again, all of this is anecdotal. This isn't a scientific study on people, but they're concerned about crime, and they don't like the direction that the city and the state is going in. These aren't Republicans. These are Democrats who, yes, are concerned about reproductive rights and access to that, and are concerned about what happened on January 6th, and are concerned about election denying that we saw after the 2020 presidential, but their immediate needs are what is happening in New York City and what is happening in New York State. The question is what has Governor Hochul done to address that, both as the governor and as a candidate. We'll see tomorrow who comes out for Hochul, if those people can really bring out voters and inspire them to vote if they haven't already, and then inspire them to vote for Hochul.

Brian Lehrer: Harry, you've been a hawk, if I can say that, on the crime issue when it comes to Democrats writing some of it off as a perception issue. Republicans nationally and in New York are saying the Dems are captive to a woke criminals lobby and phrases like that. What's your own take as a columnist? You're allowed to express your opinion.

Harry Siegel: Indeed. Lee Zeldin's tagline in effect is vote like your life depends on it because it does. That's some, as you heard in that clip, some real heavy fear pushing. The issue is many people feel that they are less safe and things are more disorderly in ominous ways around them, even many Democrats. Zeldin has some really bad ideas about what to do about that. Let's give teachers guns. Why don't we fire the just elected Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg. I don't think this makes any sense. That said, there is a real concern and perception, and he is offering a clear and coherent message that relates to it.

I hear Kathy Hochul who is a very intelligent and competent person, is trying to play a campaign position talk, and I have no idea, most of the time, what she's saying. She has not really until very recently dug into what's wrong with her opponent's message as she's tried not to address that. She is worried about state lawmakers thinking she's going to be governor next year, who are really dug in on some of these issues and not getting on the wrong side of them. Notably, Eric Adams who's been like, "We have to do stuff about bail reform," stopped talking about that entirely. He got the memo from Hochul in this campaign and is hoping, after the election, maybe things will change.

Hochul has not communicated anything clearly at all. Her message is sort of argle-bargle about this issue that is foremost on many voters minds. That has opened up a big space for Zeldin, who, again, I think has some really bad ideas, but has clearly expressed. You heard with those callers that they haven't heard from Hochul. They don't know her. They're not sure about the stakes here. We're communicating about this. I'm writing columns about it, but the Democratic Party, as an institution and the governor, have really put out very little, and haven't expressed to New Yorkers why this matters or in fact, on many different fronts, also, including gun laws, which may or may not hold up in the courts what we're doing.

Brian Lehrer: Christina, knowing your politics and knowing Harry's politics, has your podcast together gotten interesting recently along these lines?

Christina Greer: We're always interesting, right, Brian? I have deep love and respect for Harry and Katie. I think oftentimes we end up relatively close to one another on the field, we just fly in from different directions. I agree with Harry. I think Zeldin has a concise message. Now, does he have a solution? Absolutely not. He's talked about crime, crime, crime, but he's never said how he's actually going to decrease crime for all the folks in New York, in cities and otherwise.

Brian Lehrer: He says, "Lock up a lot more people and fire weak DAs."

Christina Greer: Well, the devil's in the details. I think for those people who are thinking about sitting out, they might want to ask themselves, what that means for themselves and their communities and people who may or may not look like them. I like intellectual debate as an educator. That's one of the best parts of my job, especially with young people, too.

New York state politics has become very interesting all of a sudden, especially even on the national scale. What I would hope your listeners-- Obviously, your listeners are a special sample of New York, but to make sure that we, no matter who is victorious on November 8th, to keep our foot on the gas to make sure that these candidates actually live up to some of the promises. If the candidate that you didn't want gets into office, then you work to figure out how you can make New York a vision of what you need.

Brian Lehrer: Last thing, and staying on your podcast in fact. Katie, do I see correctly that the three of you just got finished interviewing Andrew Cuomo for your podcast before you came on with us?

Katie Honan: Is that why we sound very tired? Yes. We just spoke to former Governor Andrew Cuomo, who actually touched upon a lot of these issues that the voters are bringing up who called in, that we've been talking here with you, Brian. What are the issues in New York State and who's addressing them? Not even that you can necessarily immediately find a solution for them, but who's acknowledging that people's thoughts, and feelings, and perceptions are real, and what are they working towards, even if they don't immediately have a solution? What he talked about-- of course, you might say, "Well, who cares what the former governor of New York says. He resigned."

Brian Lehrer: I was going to ask that question.

Katie Honan: I'm sure the listeners are probably like, "Who cares," but it was interesting, at least to get his perspective as someone who has won election three times as governor in New York, and seeing what his thoughts are. Obviously, to me, nothing is more-- I like hearing from voters more than anyone else in terms of what they're thinking.

Katie: Then realizing that people defy logic. You can't really easily categorize a lot of people and what they're thinking and why. First off why they even voted in the first place because a lot of people don't and then what are the issues immediate to them?

Brian Lehrer: Well, there's a line about Cuomo and Hochul, depending on your point of view. One is that it wouldn't be this close if Cuomo was still the governor and running for reelection for a variety of reasons and wasn't hounded out of office for behavior that was bad, but not worthy of resignation. Some of my callers say, there's another line of thinking on that, Katie, that sexism in the electorate works so much against Kathy Hochul. That that's one of the main things making this as close as it is and that's why Andrew Cuomo would have done better potentially.

Katie: Yes, and obviously, sexism within voters and with people in power, how they might perceive a female governor differently than a male governor. Obviously, that's completely real but these are hypotheticals. We don't know. I know there was the polling of how Andrew Cuomo on the ballot would have done against Lee Zeldin but unfortunately, we have to live in the now. We can't think, "Well, if and ran," someone was trying to tell me, "Oh, how would Andrew Giuliani have done if it was-" Again, these are things that didn't happen?

Brian Lehrer: You prompted a grown from Harry Siegel on that.

[laughter]

Katie: Not the first time I prompted a grown from Harry Siegel.

Brian Lehrer: Harry gets the last grown in this segment. Harry Siegel, Christina Greer and Katie Honan and co-hosts of the New York politics podcast, FAQ NYC. Thank you all so much and Christina, we're going to torture you again on Tuesday night and take advantage of your goodwill listeners. Christina will be [chuckles] one of our guests in the 7 o'clock hour as we kick off election night coverage here on WNYC Tuesday night at 7:00. Thank you all for coming on this morning.

Harry Siegel: Thanks so much, Brian. See you soon

 

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