The New York Renaissance Faire is underway in Tuxedo, NY, where visitors can revel in the festive and fantastical world of knights and dragons. Amid the heavily-costumed throng, you can hear live music from the middle ages, watch jousting contests and maypole dancers, or throw tomatoes at a jesterly fool in the stockades. Clayton Hamburg, the faire's entertainment coordinator and former Renaissance Faire actor talks about this year's attractions, plus how to make the most of a visit. And listeners call in with their Ren Faire stories and plans.
This segment is guest-hosted by David Furst.
[music]
Announcer: Listener-supported WNYC Studios.
[MUSIC - Freestylers of Piping: Farewell To Kingsessing]
David Furst: Good morrow, good listeners. It is I, Sir David the Furst, minstrel of morning news, filling in today for the gallant knight of Studio 3, Alison Stewart. Listeners, I speak of this way-- Okay, that's enough of that. It's because we're talking about the Renaissance Faire, which is going on now and for the next few weeks in Tuxedo, New York, up in Orange County, and that music we're hearing is called Farewell To Kingsessing from Freestylers of Piping, one of the artists you can find barging their way around the fairgrounds, and we'll hear some more music throughout this conversation.
Listeners, of course, we want to bring you into this conversation, so seasoned sorcerers, first-time apprentices, call in with your Renaissance Faire experiences this year or in years past. The number to call, 412-433-WNYC. That is 212-433-9692. What is your favorite part of the festivities? What are you going to be dressing as? Send us pictures of your crew and your costumes on social media. We are on Twitter, Instagram @AllOfItWNYC, or you can call in, or text your Ren Faire reflections and celebrations to 212-433-WNYC. That is 212-433-9692.
Joining us now to help take those calls and to talk all about the New York Renaissance Faire, please welcome the faire's entertainment coordinator, Clayton Hamburg. All hail, Clayton.
Clayton Hamburg: Cheers and salutations. Nice to see you.
David Furst: Salutations. As I mentioned, you are the faire's entertainment coordinator, and before that, you were an actor at the faire. Can you describe the New York Renaissance Faire for people who perhaps have never been?
Clayton Hamburg: Absolutely. It's set in a wonderful, what used to be a botanical garden up near Tuxedo Park. There's rolling hills and trees absolutely everywhere. There's a couple of lakes. It's just an absolutely splendid site to behold. There's some nice rare plants that are still there from the botanical garden days, and there are little paths winding through and little houses that are built in sort of a Tudor style for the vintage aspect of it, and it's absolutely breathtaking sight.
I fell in love with it immediately whenever I first showed up here in 2014, and I just wanted to get lost in the woods over and over again, year after year. It's a place where you can get completely transported away from the day-to-day living and find yourself in a fantastical Tudor fantasy realm.
David Furst: Worth it just for the scenery, and you've been going since 2014, is that right?
Clayton Hamburg: Absolutely, yes.
David Furst: Well, what kinds of work did you do as an actor? What kind of roles did you play?
Clayton Hamburg: I've had a sort of diverse array of characters that I've played out there. The one that I really loved the most, the one that set close to my heart was Puck. I was a fairy out there many years ago, and I got to play Puck. I would just sit in the woods and chew on edible leaves. I'm a bit of a forger, so I know what to look for.
David Furst: That's good.
Clayton Hamburg: I would entertain the audience by sitting there, connecting with them non-verbally and chewing on a great leaf or something like that, and that was just a really, honestly, truly magical experience for me. I've also had the fortune to play several characters. I played William Shakespeare, I've played Christopher Marlowe, I've played John Packington, and several members of Her Majesty's Court out there as well.
David Furst: Now you're the entertainment coordinator. Do you still get to crouch and chew on a leaf every once in a while?
Clayton Hamburg: I'll ask. There's usually a little too much work to do, but I like to encourage others to cautiously do the same thing.
David Furst: Now, what about the people that go to the Renaissance Fair every year? How would you describe this crew?
Clayton Hamburg: It is about as diverse as it comes. That's one of the things I think is universally loved about the Renaissance Faire. We're just open for anybody. It's a place for people to go and cosplay. It's a place for people to reenact a historical character. There is not really any limitation on who you can be when you're there or what sort of person you have to be to come in or what sort of costume you might wear when you come in. So long as it's family-friendly, we encourage people to come dressed all the way from Garfield to Donald Duck, and anything in between, Star Wars, Star Trek, we're open to it.
David Furst: Garfield at the Ren Faire. Now, if you want to join the discussion, the number again is 212-433-9692. That's 212-433 WNYC, and you were just talking about how this is really open to all and to anything. Now this weekend, speaking of that, is Time Traveler's Weekend at the Renaissance Faire, which means folks are explicitly invited to dress for whatever period they'd like, including futuristic sci-fi costumes, steampunk, even comic book cosplay. Is there a common ground for all of these different aesthetics and why does the Renaissance Faire set a day aside to blend them all?
Clayton Hamburg: I don't think there's a specific common ground that we aim for. It's the fact that anybody can come and do it, and whatever you like is the right thing. This is honestly one of my favorite weekends coming up because so many people do throw their weight behind it and they really get into it. You do tend to see a lot of things that are very specific to time travel, like Doctor Who, the Whovians will show up. I've seen Daleks, and of course, Star Trek has some aspects of time travel involved as well.
I've bitten one of those transcoders things off of Jean-Luc Picard cosplay before whenever I was Puck. We don't talk about that, but yes, it's one of those places and things that the playing field is level for anyone. If you're into that, if you have a period that you love, if you're really into like Paleontological stuff, come dressed as a caveman, we're here for it.
David Furst: Well, outside of the Time Travelers Weekend, what is the time period that's covered under the umbrella of the Renaissance in this context as far as how people dress up and the role-playing of the actors?
Clayton Hamburg: That's a really great question. The core acting company represents the Elizabethan Renaissance of England, we think about it like in a chapter, not a page aspect. We're somewhere between 1558, when she was crowned, and somewhere between like 1588, when the Spanish Armada shows up. It's that broad strokes aspect that we're portraying there, but we've also got the Robin Hood merry band, which is ostensibly from the 12th century showing up.
This season, I wrote the script to actually incorporate a little bit of time travel as well. Robin Hood does legitimately show up from the 12th century. Thanks to our friend, Leonardo da Vinci and Dr. John Dee of Her Majesty's Court.
David Furst: Well, we are speaking with Clayton Hamburg about the New York Renaissance Faire. If you would like to join the discussion, 212-433-9692. We have some callers coming through right now. Emmett, calling from Norwalk. Thank you for joining us. What would you like to talk about?
Emmett: Hi, I went to the New York Renaissance Faire last year, and my friends and I saw a bird exhibit. I think it was a family-friendly show. I went with a bunch of 30-year-olds and we thought it was really cool. They had vultures and falcons and stuff, and they flew over the crowd, really cool.
David Furst: That sounds spectacular.
Clayton Hamburg: Yes, I can elaborate a little bit on that. That is Sky Kings Falconry or Wildlife Revealed as the company, and Kevin Gaines is the master of ceremonies for that and owner of the business, and he has a whole host of birds, like you had said. There's parrots and falcons and vultures, and he's even got a pet Kookaburra that will give some delightful cackles if it's set up right. Sometimes you just have to tickle it in the right way, and it'll give those fun calls, but I love the Birds of Prey exhibit.
David Furst: Okay, we also want to hear from Deborah calling from Sussex, New Jersey. Good afternoon. Welcome. Deborah, are you there?
Deborah: Yes.
David Furst: Hello.
Deborah: Hello. [laughs] Greetings and Huzzah!
David Furst: Greetings.
Deborah: I have also worked at the Renaissance Faire for now on eight years. I am a face painter, and when I say I am a face painter, I work with Fairy Dust Face Painting where we do all original art. We do not use stencils or any kind of makeup, we use paint, and lovely fairy dust, which glistens in the sun. Our customers are so beloved. We've had the same group of customers come back year after year, including Broadway dancers who came in yesterday, actually on Labor Day, Monday, because Broadway is dark, and they come every year to have their faces painted.
David Furst: There is a lot of people who will come to the show over and over again. Once you come to a Renaissance Faire, you fall in love with it, and it just inhabits this place in your heart that you want to revisit over and over again, so absolutely.
Clayton, are there specifically kid-friendly activities at the faire?
Clayton Hamburg: I would warrant, and dare I say, go so far as to say that most of the activities at the Renaissance Faire are kid or family-friendly. Like the shows that we have, the original scripts that we wrote for the scenario cast, like the Robin Hood Adventure, the things that involve the Queen and her court. The Sky Kings Falconry, a lot of the shows that are out there, there is a Tiny Girl Big Show, there is Aaron Bonk, there is The Flaming Ginger. All of them have things that could potentially be dangerous if you tried it at home, but they're very cautious about saying, "Don't try this at home," because they're trained professionals, and they've gone to clown school, or whatever school is required.
[laughter]
David Furst: Wherever you learn to juggle burning torches.
Clayton Hamburg: Exactly.
David Furst: 212-433-9692. We are not currently juggling burning torches, but we do have Anne joining us from Asbury Park, New Jersey. Anne, good afternoon. Thanks for joining us on All Of It.
Anne: Hi. How are you?
David Furst: Great. How are you? What did you want to talk about?
Anne: I grew up in Orange County, New York. Now, I live in New Jersey, and I grew up going to the Renaissance Faire, and I loved it every year. Last year, I went back as a 32-year-old for my birthday, and it's just as good now as it was when I remember going as a kid.
Clayton Hamburg: That's beautiful. We're really, really thankful to hear that. We'd love people coming back and experiencing it again through new or more mature eyes, or through the eyes of their children, and we strive to really keep the magic alive. It's something that is growing more and more culturally common. Before I auditioned for the Renaissance Faire, I'd never heard of one. When I discovered it, it was just--
David Furst: What is this thing?
Clayton Hamburg: Exactly. I was like, "Where is the stage?" and they're like, "Well, it's about 36 acres." I was like, "That's a big stage. I like that." There is a lot of magic to be had there for all types.
David Furst: Do you have any advice for putting a costume together and have you seen any especially inspiring costumes this year?
Clayton Hamburg: In terms of advice, I would really mind the weather. We fall into this interesting part of the year where we're peak summer into--
David Furst: It's a little warm today.
Clayton Hamburg: Right now, yes. The humidity can be a lot, so I would go with light layers, breathable layers is most important, and then also think about, if you're coming out later in the season, it's something that you want to be ready to put a layer on. Come the first week of October, it's going to be a little chilly more than likely, and so you just want to mind the weather, is one of the most important things. Make sure that you drink plenty of water because we are in an environmental theater and it can get a little rough if you're not tending to the basic functions of the human body, keeping it breezy, and drinking and eating healthy.
David Furst: How about keeping the park and the environment clean? Is that a big part of what you are now contending with as--
Clayton Hamburg: We have crews that go through and make sure everything is tidy after each day, after each weekend, and there's a lot of space to cover. We have two giant parking lots that are free, and then there are two paid parking lots up toward the front right next to the faire, and they have to scour the entire place top to bottom. It's something like 60 acres that they have to cover to clean it up. It's a lot.
David Furst: That's a lot. Now, you mentioned some of your favorite roles that you've played over the years. As the entertainment coordinator, and looking at the whole scope of what's going on, what are your favorite parts of the faire?
Clayton Hamburg: For me, the most beautiful thing is an interaction. To have a character walk up to a guest and directly connect with them, that's something that doesn't happen in all forms of theater or most forms of theater. Here you can have this moment where William Shakespeare walks up to you and says in this flowery, delicious language, "How are you doing today?" Then someone can be either flummoxed by it or can work their way through what's actually being said, and then can have this completely unique experience. To me that has a value that is incomparable. It's just incredible to me.
David Furst: Improvisation is a big part of the experience,-
Clayton Hamburg: Humongous.
David Furst: -isn't it? Not only on the part of the actors, but on the participants part as well.
Clayton Hamburg: Yes. It's one of those things where if you feel comfortable interacting with the environmental theater that we're creating, we encourage you to do so. So long as it's safe, and healthy, and consensual. It is one of those things that this is a place where you can come in your character and we will meet you halfway as our character.
David Furst: Do you find that any of those improvisational skills that you've developed over the years at the faire have been helpful in life?
Clayton Hamburg: Oh, absolutely. Yes. Without question. I'm sure you as radio host know that you have to really think on your toes and be ready for anything to turn in a moment's notice, so just being prepared for contingencies is really what improvisation is. You don't know how somebody is going to respond to hello, or "God gi' good-e'en", or "What news, Horatio?" It can be anything, so just be ready is what it is. The readiness is all, as Shakespeare said.
David Furst: Readiness is all. Well, be ready and don't go anywhere fair travelers. We will have more Ren Faire conversation on the way. Stick around. This is All Of It on WNYC.
[MUSIC - traditional Irish jig: King of the Fairies]
We are talking about the New York Renaissance Faire, which is running now through October 8th in Tuxedo, New York. Our guest is the faire's entertainment coordinator, Clayton Hamburg. Clayton, there are varying degrees of historical authenticity throughout the faire, as we've been talking about. As the entertainment coordinator, how do you think that real history works in conjunction with some of the fantasy elements to draw people to the Ren Faire?
Clayton Hamburg: My place in this is to give people the idea of the reality of history, because quite frankly, none of us would probably have really enjoyed to be in London in September at any point during the English Renaissance. The Queen, honestly, she left every summer. She would go on what was called the progress, and she would go around the countryside, from place to place, visiting her people, and they would put her up at their expense, and they would get to see and be near the Queen.
That was a great privilege for them, but it also got them out of town, because London wasn't necessarily-- It didn't smell pretty. The tents caught fire several times during the English Renaissance because of tanning and things like that, so there were practices that we would definitely want to avoid. It's the gesture of the piece, not the actuality itself. We want to recreate the clothing as close as possible while still thinking in terms of, can our performers breathe in this? Is it something that they're going to sweat to the nine hills in? Things like that. It's a gesture rather than an actuality.
David Furst: Speaking of a historical accuracy, we've actually got someone joining us from a group called the Nyr Jorvik Vikings. They are responsible for the Viking village at the New York Renaissance Faire, where you can see historically accurate slices of life from Scandinavia during the Viking age. We have Greg Robinson, board member and part-time Viking with the Nyr Viking village at the faire. Hey, Greg.
Greg Robinson: Hi, David. Thank you for having me on.
David Furst: Good afternoon. Now, Greg, for people whose only contact with Viking culture is perhaps TV and the movies, what would you like them to understand about the realities of Viking life, and the work that your group does around that history?
Greg Robinson: At the back of the Renaissance Faire, we have a plot of land where we have a recreation of a 10th century Viking encampment. We try to show people what Viking life was really like, apart from the raiding and pillaging that you see on the TV shows and movies.
David Furst: That's the part that gets the press, right?
Greg Robinson: Exactly. [laughs] The day-to-day things aren't quite as sexy, so they don't have that on TV as much.
David Furst: Well, what are the day-to-day things? Yes, tell us.
Greg Robinson: We have demonstrations going on all day throughout the camp. We have a blacksmith who makes some nails and other tools for us to use. We have some demonstrations on how the Vikings would have made fire and also how they made rope, which is not something people probably think about very often. We have a woodworking group set up, where we are actually this year turning-- We're learning how to turn bowls on our new spring pole lathes, which is really interesting. We have a-
David Furst: Greg, is there any--?
Greg Robinson: -fire pit. Yes, go ahead.
David Furst: Oh, yes. I was just wanting to know if there is any wisdom from the Viking way of life that you think it might be valuable for people in 2023 to understand.
Greg Robinson: It's a lot of work to do all of these things. We have a weavers who will explain to you exactly how you would go about making cloth and making clothes from the sheep or from the flax fibers. It's a long, long process, and all of the woodworking and blacksmithing that we're doing, it's hard work, and it takes a long time. When that's what you need to do to live and you're doing it all day long and you're not being distracted by all of the things that we have in modern life, that's life. It's what you do and it's how you go about things. It's been really interesting to learn how to do these things and pick up these skills. It's been a lot of fun.
David Furst: Are you having a good time at the faire?
Greg Robinson: Oh, we love it.
[laughter]
David Furst: That's great.
Greg Robinson: We've been there since 2014, and each year, we strive to grow a little bit and get a little bigger and better, and improve on what we do.
David Furst: Greg Robinson.
Greg Robinson: It's a lot of fun.
David Furst: Greg Robinson, thank you so much for joining us. Board member-
Greg Robinson: Thank you.
David Furst: -and part-time Viking with the Nyr Jorvik Viking Village, a village I'm assuming you're familiar with Clayton?
Clayton Hamburg: Oh, absolutely. I cross its path every single day. It's a lovely place.
David Furst: We are talking about the New York Renaissance Faire with the faire's entertainment coordinator, Clayton Hamburg. If you would like to join the discussion, the number to call is 212-433-9692. That is 212-433-WNYC.
Kristen calling in from Sussex County, New Jersey. Thank you for joining us. Do you have a Ren Faire story you would like to share? Oh, Kristen-
Kristen: It looks like a nice easy drive over there.
David Furst: Oh, Kristen, sorry. I can just hear you now. Kristen, hello. Welcome.
Kristen: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I have great memories of my two sons when they were younger, dressing up as knights and pirates, and enjoying the whole magic of it. I was total theater geek when I was young. I love the magic that these people are so committed to all their roles, and I had a great memory of my youngest son, Willem, who was very, just loved to get into it, and he went right up to the queen and knelt before her, and he gave her a kiss on the hand, the whole nine yards. She gave him a mission and gave him a special note, and then to have to bring it across to where she sat and then he knelt before the king and got knighted. It was so cute.
David Furst: Wow.
Kristen: Like a beyond cute. Each year, there was just special little things that we found that they did, and they don't really share it with everybody right away. As you go every year, you learn about little things that they do as part of this great production. My kids are older, 11 and 12, and they asked more recently, "Can we go back? I was like, "Would you dress up?" and they're like, "I don't know about that, Mom." [chuckles] But they want to go back.
Clayton Hamburg: It'll come back into fashion with them.
Kristen: My husband and I always loved going.
Clayton Hamburg: Each year is like its own production. The story changes every time, and the things that happen each year are completely unique in its own way. You're still going to have the Queen, you're still going to have Robin Hood and the Merry Band, and the Sheriff, and the villains, but the things that happen, the magic of the unique interactions, like your children experienced are completely unique.
David Furst: Is Kristen still there or did we lose Kristen? Oh, okay. Oh, I was probably going to violate some sacred code by asking what was in the note. I want to know [chuckles]. Now, I'm just going to have to wonder forever.
Clayton Hamburg: You'll have to go yourself.
David Furst: I'll have to go myself. Maybe they still have it somewhere. Kristen said something that really sparked my interest that she was a real theater geek is what she used. Do you see a lot of people who really come from a theater tradition that get into?
Clayton Hamburg: Absolutely. This is the place where you can be yourself, whatever that means. I've come from a theater background myself. I played Puck in a Midsummer Night's Dream before I auditioned for the Renaissance Faire, and it was all I wanted to do in my life was to be puck at a Renaissance Faire. Once I realized what a Renaissance Faire was, and then I got the opportunity. That magic of the individual coming in, having their theatrical experience, getting to be the knight, the lady of the realm, the time traveling doctor, whatever they want to be. They can live that out.
David Furst: What an incredible memory she just described there and everyone getting involved with that improvisation, right?
Clayton Hamburg: Yes.
David Furst: Her child, the queen, the king, they never going to forget that.
Clayton Hamburg: It's stuff that lasts an entire lifetime.
David Furst: Well, we have another caller. Let's hear from Anne in Rockland County. Anne, hello. Welcome. Do you have a Ren Faire memory?
Anne: Hi, am I on the air?
David Furst: Yes. Hello. Welcome.
Anne: Hi. Thank you. Yes, I have a wonderful memory. We've been going maybe since my daughter was four, and she's now 14. We brought her when she was little, she was totally into Robin Hood and castles and knights and things, and the Ren Faire did not disappoint. They had jousting with knights on real horses, jousting, and we ran into Robin Hood and his Merry Men in the woods, and it just was amazing. She got to shoot bows and arrows.
I think one thing we all love is just when you enter, it's like immediately you're brought into this fantasy land where people of all different ages are gathered, and they're all super psyched. I love seeing teenagers all in a big group dressed up like Star Wars or whatever. Then you'll see senior citizens walking around with like a giant leg of turkey leg. It's just an awesome environment. As your guest said, it's like anything goes and it's acceptance of all this craziness.
David Furst: Thank you so much for, for sharing that today. Clayton, that's the classic, right? The walking around with the turkey leg.
Clayton Hamburg: Absolutely.
David Furst: Jousting brings us back to, don't try this at home.
Clayton Hamburg: Don't try it at home, but we do have a very good professional jousting team called the Jousters. They are incredible at what they do. They rehearse literally every single day. They're working out there and training their horses and making sure that they're well fed, well tended, and well taken care of. It is a dangerous sport.
David Furst: I was just going to say, even with all of that training, it sounds like it's still got the potential for some danger.
Clayton Hamburg: Yes, absolutely. They do sensibly take their own life into their hand every time they tilt that lance down and head on down the rail towards one another. Accidents do happen, but they're very cautious. They practice enough that the risk is less for them but again, don't try it at home. We do have a VIP seating for our joust. If ever you want to come in and get a free water, a pickle, and a little pendant flag, and watch it out of the sunlight because there's a lot of people that show up to those joust. Sometimes I would say like 2,000 or 3,000 people.
David Furst: Is that one of the main events?
Clayton Hamburg: Yes, indeed. Absolutely. We have three of them a day. There's the royal joust, there's the joust of skill, and the joust to the death. Don't worry, that's not an actual death, that's an acted death that takes place.
David Furst: Thank you for confirming.
[laughter]
We're talking about the Renaissance Faire. If you'd like to join the discussion, 212-433-9692. That's 212-433-WNYC. Mike from New Rochelle. Thanks for joining our discussion here on All Of It.
Mike: Great. Thanks for taking the call. Geez, I think I might be the furthest back. I started going when I was in high school. We would go with a group of people, actually grew up in Rockland, and when I was a teenager, and I think my first time was probably 1983, so I know the park well, and when I got older and married, I would take my kids. I have some great memories. I was going to mention the jousting, which was always a lot of fun. Just people watching at the place. Everybody's having such a good time.
I have an indelible memory of the Mud Brothers, and where my son is, who's 26 now. I have a picture. I can pull it up in moments because it's one of my favorite pictures. He's about 9 years old or 10, and he's just covered in mud, and these guys are all arrayed behind him. They were all covered in mud, in their mud pit, and he has got the biggest grin on his face. I can remember that day we were walking around and the joust thing and the blacksmith and just a lot of fun.
Like I said, started going as a teenager, went back when I was in my 20s. I've probably been a half a dozen times. Also taking neighbors that were from the Dominican Republic, and we're friends with them, and when their girls were young, I said, "Have you ever heard of this Renaissance festival?" and they were like, "No." We went and they just had a blast. It's a great time.
David Furst: Mike, thank you so much for sharing that. Clayton, as soon as the mud was mentioned, you seem to know all about what he was talking about.
Clayton Hamburg: We don't have that show at the faire any longer, but there have been historically what are called dirty mud beggars or different mud shows that have taken place, and there are actually some very famous people who have done that work. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Julia Louis-Dreyfus may have at one point been one of the Mud Beggars at a Renaissance Faire.
David Furst: Wow. I guess you can't advertise that.
Clayton Hamburg: I wouldn't dare say it, even on public radio.
David Furst: Now, before we wrap up, Clayton, is there anything else you want to make sure that we know before we show up? Any advice things we should bring? Maybe some logistics accessibility for people who may have mobility issues?
Clayton Hamburg: Probably one of the most important things you could do, if you're planning a trip to the New York Renaissance Faire, is go to renfaire.com/ny. That's R-E-N-F-A-I-R-E.com/ny. That'll take you directly to our website, and there is all kinds of information there. Some fascinating and fun things to know are you can take a Short Line Bus directly from the Port Authority to the Renaissance Faire, basically our front door. That's what I did this morning to get here. Navigating those logistics, spend a little time on the website, because that's really going to be where all of the information is encapsulated in one place.
David Furst: Take that bus and travel back in time.
Clayton Hamburg: Absolutely.
David Furst: We have been talking about the New York Renaissance Faire, which is running now through October 8th in Tuxedo, New York. Our guest has been the faire's entertainment coordinator, Clayton Hamburg. Clayton, cheers. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the faire.
Clayton Hamburg: Thank You. Huzzah!
Copyright © 2023 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.
New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.