![Radio Rookie Kayla Ollivierre.](https://media.wnyc.org/i/800/0/c/85/2022/04/kayla_radiorookies_03.jpg)
( Jax Floyd )
In this installment of Radio Rookies, Kayla Ollivierre shares a deeply personal childhood story: While witnessing a domestic violence incident in her home, Kayla called 911 for help. But that first interaction with police left her feeling ignored and disappointed.
Several years later, police killed George Floyd. And Ma’Khia Bryant. Kayla decided she was ready to imagine a world without police. But what would that world look like?
To find answers to her questions, Kayla speaks with lawyer and writer Derecka Purnell about police abolition.
Kayla Ollivierre: The first time I called the police – I was 10 years old. My mom and my little sister and I were living with my step-dad. Sometimes he was verbally abusive. One night, he came home from work and got really angry at my mom.
Kayla’s mom: He pushed open the bedroom door, he came and he start pulling me and stuff like that, calling me out by names and stuff like that.
Kayla: His yelling woke me and my sister up.
Kayla’s mom: You guys were scared because this time you actually see him putting his hands on me to pull me and stuff. And he was like, you have to leave. I’ll kill you.
Kayla: I felt like I had to do something. And I had always been told to call 911 if I needed help. The police showed up about five minutes later.
Kayla’s mom: : They didn't do anything. They did not do anything. They listened to him. He was like oh, this is my place. I pay the bills and the rent here. So the police officers just did a report and they were like y’all stop fighting with each other.
Kayla: When they left, we went back to bed.
Kayla’s mom: But it wasn’t over. He came back again and this time it was even worse than it was before. He pulled on my clothes. My clothes was torn. He had nail marks all over my chest.
Kayla: I ran to the phone again.
Kayla’s mom: He heard you call the police again. And that’s when he left. He left.
Kayla: A different group of officers showed up. One of them gave us the phone number for a domestic violence shelter. But they didn’t really do anything. I was shocked and disappointed.
Kayla’s friend, Jared: Growing up everyone wanted to be a police officer. Everyone wanted to be a firefighter…
Kayla: That’s my friend Jared, we grew up together in Queens.
Jared: I would go to school and be like, yeah, I’m friends with a police officer or whatever, thinking I was cool.
Kayla, speaking to Jared: It’s funny that you said that because I always wanted to be a cop. So when that domestic violence incident happened, I was like, “Yeah! The police are here! The police are going to keep us safe.” Cause I had always been like, yo, these guys in uniforms, I think they’re super cool. And I wanna be one one day.
Jared: Yeah.
Kayla: The way they responded that night changed things for me. I didn’t feel safe, I felt ignored. But I was 10 years old, so I had no sense of how my experience might be part of a bigger problem. Then when I was 15 years old, I watched a video of police killing George Floyd. People started protesting. And talking about defunding the police. Then I learned about Breonna Taylor. And Ma’Khia Bryant, who was just 16 years old. Like me. By then, people were talking a lot about abolishing the police — altogether.
Sounds of people protesting.
Kayla: I started to wonder what a world without police would look like. But then, I thought: Without police, who could we call?
Derecka Purnell: When people hear “police abolition,” initially, it sounds like, well, if we just eliminate police, then what am I going to do?
Kayla: That’s Derecka Purnell, a lawyer, writer and police abolitionist.
Derecka: Police abolition does not mean that we’re going to snap our fingers and then one million cops are gonna disappear. Police abolition is asking us: Why are people calling the police in the first place? How do we get to the root of that problem? How do we reduce our reliance on the police as we’re reducing the police?
Kayla: Derecka says, growing up, her family also relied on the police.
Derecka: My family had experienced lots of evictions and homelessness. And at one point my mom, the six of us and her boyfriend at the time, we were all, like, living in this slum apartment.
Kayla: Derecka’s friend had given her a mattress. And she wanted her siblings to sleep on it. But her mom’s boyfriend wanted it for himself. They got into an argument. And the police showed up.
Derecka: They turned to my mom and said, either he has to leave or she has to leave. And my mom, you know, said I had to leave.
Kayla: Years later, she asked her mom about that night.
Derecka: And she said, well, the apartment was in his name. And if I would’ve said him, he would’ve kicked all of us out and it would’ve been seven of us homeless.
Kayla: Derecka says there never would’ve been a fight over a mattress if her family had their own apartment with their own beds.
Derecka: Calling the police — it didn’t stop us from being homeless. It didn’t stop, you know, her boyfriend from having that power over our relationship. It didn’t fix the inequality that put us in that situation. And so when I say that the police can’t get to the root causes of harm, that’s exactly what I mean.
Kayla: What my family went through felt similar. My mom was with my step-dad because she was undocumened — she had no way to get her own apartment – and no family to rely on. And she had me and my sister to take care of. When I think about all the things that could’ve prevented that situation from ever happening. The police are not even on the list.
Derecka: You know what could happen if we had universal daycare and childcare? You don't have to worry about being in a relationship with someone who hurts you because they pay the bills or because you need medical insurance if we have universal health insurance.
Kayla: Dereka says she wants money for policing to be spent in other ways.
Derecka: We need serious policy changes to make sure that people have resources. We can continue to spend money on police academies on training, on body cameras, or we can make sure that people have the resources, the agency, the empowerment they need in order to live the kind of lives we deserve.
Sounds of Kayla, her mom and younger sister having dinner.
Kayla’s mom: Okay. So for dinner doubles, curry, chicken, roti…
Kayla: My mom, my sister and I have our own apartment now. My mom has her own social security number and everything we’ve been through has made us closer.
Kayla, getting ready to eat her food: Yummy, yummy, yummy, comida.
Kayla: We’re safe. But I know there are other people out there who aren’t. And I know the kind of change Derecka’s talking about can take years and years. And work: Protesting, organizing. But I’m ready. I wanna do my part – to build something better.
Kayla, interviewing her family: What’s the quote of the day? By the Ollivierre family?
Kayla’s mom, laughing: So the quote of the day is: “Let your energy be used to build, not destroy.”
Kayla: Ooooh!
Kayla: For WNYC, I’m Radio Rookies reporter Kayla Ollivierre.