Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart live from the WNYC studios in Soho. Thank you for sharing part of your day with us. I'm really grateful you are here. Coming up on the show today, it's Women's History Month, and we're kicking off our series Equalizers: Women in Music Production. We'll be speaking with a musical powerhouse, Alissia. She's one of 2025 Grammy nominees for Producer of the Year.

If you've ever read a description of a meal in a book and you thought, "Wow, that sounds really, really good," there is now a company in Brooklyn called Table of Contents that brings the food from the page to the table. We'll speak with its founder, plus Michael Harney of the tea company Harney & Sons joins us to spill the tea on what makes a great cuppa. That is our plan. Let's get this started with the Oscars.

[music]

Alison Stewart: Last night was the 97th annual Academy Awards. As usual, Hollywood's biggest night included some surprises, some history-making moments, and a couple of mishaps. Starting with the history, Wicked costume designer and All Of It guest Paul Tazewell became the first Black man to take home the Oscar for Best Costume Design. Zoe Saldana shouted out in her speech that she was the first American of Dominican descent to win an Oscar.

The night's big winner, Anora writer and director Sean Baker became the first person to win four Oscars on the same night for the same movie. The evening was hosted by Conan O'Brien who kept things on the rails for the most part, but there were a few huh moments. We'll talk about all of the night's biggest moments right now with Louis Virtel, co-host of the Keep It podcast and Oscars aficionado. Hi, Louis.

Louis Virtel: Hi there, Alison. I'm so psyched to be here.

Alison Stewart: Hey, listeners, we want to hear from you. What do you think of the Oscars? What were you most excited to see win? Any movie or performance you wish had taken home an award? Our phone lines are open. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Louis, the Oscars were a little bit unpredictable this year. Even going into it, it wasn't entirely clear. Why do you think it was such an unpredictable season?

Louis Virtel: I would love to be able to tell you. I think this year voters weren't sure really what they loved. It felt like the favorite, even just in the Best Picture category, kept changing constantly. I remember at one point being assured that Anora had fallen out of the conversation, that A Complete Unknown was taking the reins. I remember hearing that I'm Still Here was moving into the Best Picture conversation, that Conclave was perhaps going to take it all.

I don't remember the favorite really changing hands as many times as it did this season. The season really goes on for like five or six months. We start watching these movies a long time ago. For it to have suspense that long, as an Oscars superfan, I can only be grateful for.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about the host. Conan hosted the Oscars for the first time. He's hosted the Emmys, the White House Correspondents' dinner, both big events. What do you think he did right as the host? Where do you think he went off the rails?

Louis Virtel: Well, let me just say my full-time job is I'm a writer for Jimmy Kimmel Live. I think I can speak for almost everybody in my industry where there is no such thing as being a joke writer, working in Late Night, and not loving what Conan O'Brien has brought to Late Night. The high-low thing he does where there's such a dignity and an intelligence to what he does and yet a commitment to just the stupidest jokes, the loudest most annoying characters, I just appreciate that so much.

I really think he stuck to that persona on stage. He was reverent to the movies and he seemed to know them all really well and make jokes that were appropriate. Then he really just said, "Now we're going to toss to the sandworm from Dune, who was playing a musical instrument." He said-

Alison Stewart: He's playing the harp.

Louis Virtel: -yes, Monty Python-level silliness in addition to the really adroit commentary. That overall is what I really appreciated about him. Also, I appreciated that it's been a while since we've seen him host something like this and he just locked back into it as if no time had passed. I was thrilled to see that.

Alison Stewart: How did you feel about "I'm not going to waste your time" musical number?

Louis Virtel: I guess this may be a divisive issue. I thought it was the best part of the monologue. If anything, my problem with it was it didn't go on long enough. It should have wasted more of our time and had more strange da-da moments of crazy scenery appearing and stuff. It reminded me of a song you might hear on Animaniacs or something, where some of the characters are taunting you on screen with what they're doing and you just have to hold on until he finally lets go.

Alison Stewart: We were wondering if Conan was going to address the Emilia Pérez drama in his opening monologue, and he did. For those who don't know, the star of that film, Karla Sofía Gascón, in her past made racist tweets about Muslims, George Floyd, even about the Oscars. Here's Conan's jokes about that drama.

Conan O'Brien: Little fact for you. Nora uses the F word 479 times. That's three more than the record set by Karla Sofía Gascón's publicist. "You cheated what?"

[laughter] [applause]

Conan O'Brien: I'm having fun. Karla Sofía Gascón is here tonight.

[cheering]

Conan O'Brien: Karla, if you are going to tweet about the Oscars, remember my name is Jimmy Kimmel.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: I'm sure you'll have a good time with that on the show. What did you think about how he handled that moment?

Louis Virtel: It was definitely necessary to make a joke about that. It's also something I've been thinking about because it was something that really took-- In the online conversation about the Oscars, it really dominated the conversation, but I didn't really know how much that had permeated just the everyday, casual Oscar viewers mindset. For him to address it even at all, I was happy about. Honestly, my favorite part of that delivery is the little character he does after he makes the joke that, "You tweeted what?" That, to me, is what Conan does best, like comic exasperation, like a cartoon character.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk about the big winner. Sean Baker started winning for Best Editing and Best Original Screenplay. It seemed Anora might take home the night's top prize. It's a movie about a sex worker who marries an infantile son of a Russian oligarch. Why do you think this movie seemed to resonate so strongly with Academy voters?

Louis Virtel: First of all, I'm still bowled over looking at Sean Baker holding four Oscars. It's just a completely unusual sight. You leave the Grammys and it could be anybody from Lady A to Adele will be holding five Grammys at the end of a night, you can expect that, but to see the four Oscars-- Katharine Hepburn never held all four of her Oscars at once, so this is a really remarkable night for one person.

I think Anora is just a complete ride. You start it and it seems almost like-- I don't want to say a traditional romance, but a romance with some quirky elements. The lead performance from Mikey Madison draws you in immediately. It has that kind of Marisa Tomei in My Cousin Vinny level urgency, where there's comedy, and yet also there's something very startling about her at all times. Then as the movie goes on, it shifts genres entirely into this caper that is extremely bracing, extremely stressful. A movie like Uncut Gems comes to mind, that level of stress.

Then eventually, it becomes a romance again, which is completely unexpected. Another soul emerges in the movie out of nowhere, basically played by Yuriy Borisov brilliantly. I think just if you watch that movie, you can't compare it to anything else because the shifts in the movie are so unexpected and so welcome.

Alison Stewart: I wondered, do you think ranked-choice voting played into Anora's win in Best Picture?

Louis Virtel: It is always interesting. We get more breaks between picture and director now more than ever. I think that's because we vote differently on Best Picture than Best Director. Voters, they have to rank their favorites and then the way they're tabulated, like the lowest vote-getters are eliminated and then those points are moved-- Anyway, it's a whole system of bracketing. You're right. I think it's hard to rank that movie at the bottom of your list because it does so much. At some point, you're either laughing or you're really compelled by the drama. I can't imagine just turning away from that movie entirely.

Alison Stewart: Sean Baker took time during his speech for Best Director to advocate for putting movies in theaters rather than straight to streaming. Let's listen to his speech.

Sean Baker: We're all here tonight and watching this broadcast because we love movies. Where did we fall in love with the movies? At the movie theater.

[cheering]

Sean Baker: Watching a film in the theater with an audience is an experience. We can laugh together, cry together, scream and fright together, perhaps sit in devastated silence together. In a time in which the world can feel very divided, this is more important than ever. It's a communal experience you simply don't get at home. Right now, the theater-going experience is under threat. Movie theaters, especially independently owned theaters, are struggling and it's up to us to support them.

During the pandemic, we lost nearly 1,000 screens in the US and we continue to lose them regularly. If we don't reverse this trend, we'll be losing a vital part of our culture. This is my battle cry. Filmmakers keep making films for the big screen. I know I will.

[applause]

Alison Stewart: He clearly had a lot to say. He had planned to say that. He knew he was going to be up there at least one time and he was going to get to say that. I was thinking that during the speeches, how much politics was going to play in, how much personal amount was going to play in. What did you think about the way politics was handled in speeches?

Louis Virtel: It's interesting because, throughout this award season, I basically expected there to be more politics. I can't think of too many speeches I heard that felt like they hit that potent, relevant thing we love about award shows, really. In the Best Documentary feature this year, we got that with No Other Land. Finally, you got to hear the words Israel and Palestine even uttered on an awards dais. That was thrilling.

In terms of what we just heard with Sean Baker talking about the movie theaters or whatever, one of my favorite old music videos is Alanis Morissette's You Learn. In the middle of the video, she does flip-flops down the street. I wanted to be that person listening to this speech, listening to this man talk about movie theaters. Anybody who loves the Oscars is sitting in a theater watching these movies, experiencing them, taking in the noises of the people around them.

I love a solitary movie theater experience. If I'm in that theater by myself, it's still a transcendent time. I needed somebody at the Oscars to speak up for that kind of person and that kind of experience, and thank God he did. Also thank God he prepared for making four different speeches because often when people go up on stage and they're like, "Oh, I don't have anything anymore," it's like, "Really?" I could have written something for you.

Alison Stewart: Oh, no, he was prepared. My guest is Louis Virtel, co-host of Keep It, an Oscars fanatic. We are recapping last night's Oscars. We want to hear from you. What did you think of the Oscars? Who are you excited to see win? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Let's check in with Judy, who's calling us from Brooklyn. Hi, Judy, you're on the air.

Judy: Hi. This is the second time both best actor, best actress were Jewish. The first time was 1937, Paul Muni and Luise Rainer.

Alison Stewart: There you go. Louis, you are also an expert. Is Judy correct?

Louis Virtel: I literally was finishing the words as she said them. Yes, Luise Rainer is one of the most now underrated best actress winners. She won two consecutively. She didn't act much after that, actually. She was one time married to the playwright Clifford Odets. That does seem crazy that it's been whatever, 80-plus years since that last happened.

Alison Stewart: Yes, that Best Actress category was competitive. Anora's Mikey Madison took home the BAFTA in the Indonesia Independent Spirit Award. The Substance's Demi Moore took home the SAG Award and the Golden Globe. Why do you think they ultimately honored Mikey Madison with this win?

Louis Virtel: I'm calling it Nomadland syndrome, which was a few years ago, Nomadland won Best Picture. It won Best Director, Chloé Zhao. There was a lot of buildup about the Best Actress category because you also had that year Viola Davis in Ma Rainey's Black Bottom. It didn't seem like a sure thing that Frances McDormand would win and yet it seemed like all the momentum in the room went towards Nomadland. It would make sense that the thing that dominates that movie, the central performance, would also win the award. I feel like we underestimated Mikey Madison in this conversation, even though all the signs pointed to people loving Anora first and foremost this movie season.

Alison Stewart: All right. Do you think it was her performance in the movie which was fantastic, or are we seeing The Substance unfold in real time?

Louis Virtel: [laughs] I am worried. I haven't been offered The Substance yet and I'm feeling left out.

Alison Stewart: [laughs]

Louis Virtel: No, it is interesting. I feel like maybe Oscar fans online were particularly rallied around Demi Moore. I think we loved the comeback moment for her. She was fantastic in the movie. I feel like maybe the average Oscars voter who's seeing all the movies just saw Mikey Madison really dominate the entire runtime of that picture. Whereas Demi Moore in The Substance, though she is fabulous, shares half her screen time with Margaret Qualley. I just feel like Mikey Madison's was a central performance in the movie.

Alison Stewart: Zoe Saldana capped off a very successful awards season with an Oscar last night for her role in Emilia Pérez. Let's listen to a little bit of her speech.

Zoe Saldana: I am a proud child of immigrant parents with dreams and dignity and hard-working hands. I am the first American of Dominican origin to accept an Academy Award and I know I will not be the last. I hope the fact that I'm getting an award for a role where I got to sing and speak in Spanish, my grandmother, if she were here, she would be so delighted. This is for my grandmother, Argentina Sese. Thank you so much. Muchas gracias.

Alison Stewart: Why do you think the Emilia Pérez drama did not affect Zoe Saldana?

Louis Virtel: First of all, what Karla Sofía Gascón said on Twitter has nothing to do with what Zoe Saldana has ever said. I weirdly think there might have been some sympathy in that regard. First of all, people online routinely hate this movie. They really do. I think nobody is really saying Zoe Saldana wasn't a dominating, fabulous force in the movie. She's tasked to do a lot of unconventional things. She has to sing. She has to be extremely serious as a part in the movie in which she's kidnapped. It's this acting obstacle course. I think, ultimately, when comparing the performances in that category, she simply had to do the most.

Now, there's a whole other conversation about whether this is category fraud if she was the "lead actress" in the movie because there's no way she didn't have fewer lines than Karla Sofía Gascón, who was nominated for Best Actress, for example. That's a different conversation. I don't think anybody wanted to take away from what she actually did in the movie, which was a whole lot and sure looked exhausting.

Alison Stewart: Adrien Brody had a long speech after winning Best Actor for The Brutalists. In fact, he got them to stop playing the wrap-up music. Let's listen to that moment.

Adrien Brody: Judy Becker, the real Laszlo Toth, who deserves to be up here as well. I'm wrapping up. Please, please, please. I'm wrapping up. I will wrap up. Please turn the music off. I've done this before. Thank you. It's not my first rodeo, but I will be brief. I will not be egregious, I promise.

Alison Stewart: You tweeted, "Adrien Brody's speech needed an intermission ala The Brutalist." What did you make of the speech?

Louis Virtel: Let me tell you something. It is now officially the longest speech an actor has given in Oscars history. Now, I'm an Oscar statistician. I love all the old stats. Something we hold dearly is that the actress Greer Garson in the '40s had the longest speech for an actor ever. She went on for five minutes or so. I have to be honest with you, I do not want to let it go. I want Greer Garson to be relevant in this way. The fact that Adrian Brody just went and took it away for an appropriately very long movie, I'm a little bit crestfallen about that.

That said, I thought his speech had like five or six awesome lines in it. Then it kind of kept going and maybe it's still going. It's funny because he promised to be brief and then made the longest speech ever. I don't like being lied to.

Alison Stewart: Do you think it was necessary for Adrien Brody and Halle Berry to kiss before the Oscars stage like they did 22 years ago? Was that necessary?

Louis Virtel: Let me tell you something. I was on the red carpet yesterday working for Jimmy Kimmel. Guillermo, his sidekick on the show does a red carpet bit that I was the supervising writer there, so I was looking at Adrien Brody and Halle Berry when that happened. My initial instinct was, this does not need to happen. I find that to be an uncomfortable moment in Oscar's history when he, I'm putting this in air quotes, jokingly swept up Halle Berry and made out with her as he accepted his Oscar. It appears this is a conversation that has unfolded between them over the years. They've talked about the discomfort of that moment or the strangeness of that moment. Halle Berry, if she's owning this moment for herself and kissing him because of that, then good for her, I'll say.

Alison Stewart: Georgina was not far away, though.

Louis Virtel: That's true. She looked ravishing.

Alison Stewart: We've got a whole bunch of tweets about Kieran Culkin. "Loved Kieran Culkin's banner with his wife. Swedish moment. Culkin asking his wife for two more kids she promised him if he won an Oscar. His wife's in for a real pain." Let's take a listen to his speech. After winning Best Supporting Actor.

Kieran Culkin: Please don't play the music because I want to tell a really quick story about Jazz. About a year ago, I was on a stage like this, and I very stupidly, publicly said that I want a third kid from her because she said if I won the award, she would give me the kid. Turns out she said that because she didn't think I was going to win. People came up to her and were really annoying her. I think it got to her.

Anyway, after the show, we're walking through a parking lot. She's holding the Emmy, we're trying to find our car. Emily, you were there, so you're a witness. She goes, "Oh, God, I did say that. I guess I owe you a third kid." I turned to her and I said, "Really, I want four." She turned to me. I swear to God, this happened. It was just over a year ago. She said, "I will give you four when you win an Oscar."

[laughter] [applause]

Kieran Culkin: I held my hand out, she shook it. I have not brought it up once until just now. You remember that, honey? You do? Okay. Then I just have this to say to you, Jazz, love of my life, ye of little faith, no pressure. I love you. I'm really sorry I did this again. Let's get cracking on those kids. What do you say? I love you.

Alison Stewart: These speeches are really funny. His speeches have been so funny during this entire course. What have you thought of that kind of Oscar speech?

Louis Virtel: Throughout this, I was shocked first of all that his season of awards actually culminated with his best speech. When people have to talk that long on that many different occasions, first of all, they run out of things to say, or two, they save the most self-important unfun speech for the end. His was the opposite. He, first of all, picked a moment that his wife wasn't even anticipating and talked about that.

Also, something that was awesome about this speech. I cannot think of another speech in Oscars history, really not one, where the reactions of someone in the audience were just as crucial to his success. It was like his wife was fully locked in, giving an Oscar-winning performance of her own. It was so charming, the back and forth between them. A very well-produced Oscars moment.

Alison Stewart: Finally, any musical moment that stuck with you from the event.

Louis Virtel: Again, I did love Conan's extremely silly "I'm not going to waste your time" number. I was a bit disappointed by the tribute to James Bond, which I think I started off disappointed because obviously, Barbara Broccoli won the Governors or the Thalberg Award this year and so they wanted to toast that moment. It was weird that they just picked three Bond songs and then that was it. I remember Live and Let Die. That's a great song. I remember Skyfall. The performers they chose felt a bit random to me. Doja Cat for two seconds was doing a pretty awesome Shirley Bassey impression. Then I realized we still have Shirley Bassey. Was she unavail? What's going on?

Musically, that did stick out to me. Also by the way, you're not going to have a Bond tribute and not have the best Bond song of all, which is Nobody Does It Better by the legendary Carly Simon.

Alison Stewart: For real. I thought, "Two songs from the Wiz? That's odd."

Louis Virtel: Oh, my gosh. The opening though was spectacular, and spectacular song choices. To have Ariana Grande doing Over the Rainbow right at the top, I mean every generation is going to love that. It's exactly what belongs centrally in the Oscars.

Alison Stewart: Louis Virtel, co-host of Keep It, an Oscar fanatic. We really appreciate your time this award season. It was really nice talking to you.

Louis Virtel: Oh, my gosh. Can you just do this with me every day? Does it have to be the Oscars were last night? Let's just do this again.

Alison Stewart: We'll do it again with Tony time. We'll call you on Tony time.

Louis Virtel: Great.