The Role of Black History Month in Black Lives

[music]

Brian: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Here, on day four of Black History Month, did you happen to catch Sunday's edition of the United States of Anxiety here on WNYC? It turns out the host, Kai Wright, and senior producer, Veralyn Williams, feel differently about it. Veralyn fully embraces Black History Month while Kai is a bit skeptical of how it's often practiced. They'll continue that conversation on the US of Anxiety, Sunday nights, for the rest of the month, I gather. They're joining us now to talk about what Black History Month can and does mean to them in 2021, when its origins reaching back to 1926, did you know that, are now very much a part of that history. Hi, Kai. Hi, Veralyn.

Kai Wright: Hi, Brian.

Veralyn Williams: Hey, Brian.

Brian: Haven't seen you in person in like a year, but here we are on the radio. Kai, you actually-- I'll remind people, contributed to the book Four Hundred Souls that we talked about yesterday with the historians, Keisha N. Blain and Ibram X. Kendi. I mentioned your contribution. You aren't opposed to studying Black history, hardly. That's a lot of what your show is about. You're just not enthused about relegating it to one month of the year, is that it?

Kai: I'm obsessed with Black history and have always been. I can remember being as young as elementary school in junior high, trying to read my dad's Black history books and learn, and really copy him. I'm obsessed with it. My issues with Black History Month have always been-- I've just struggled to connect to it on two goals. One, there's that tokenism piece of it that you're alluding to with its just one month and containing us to that time, and that's when we're supposed to talk about Black history when it's all of American history.

For me, really, when I was a kid, it felt so unserious. It just felt like there were these boldface names that are just trapped in sepia that we supposed to just tick off. I just never saw myself in it. I could never connect to it and the version of Blackness that it was supposed to be teaching me or celebrating. It just has always left me cold.

Brian: Veralyn, as we learned on Sunday night, those of us who were listening to your show, this is a big deal for you, and so much so that you typically throw a big party every year to celebrate, not so much Black history as Blackness itself but with the hook of Black History Month. Tell people about it.

Veralyn: Yes. First of all, I find any reason to throw a party with my friends and just being ourselves. As Kai was talking, I was just thinking about the fact that a lot of my education, particularly in college, was rooted in intersectionality. This dynamic where you have to be this ideal Black person, and this ideal Black history was never really my focus. In fact, it was always a critique of that from the very beginning. I think that maybe is why, to me, like I'm hearing from Kai and I'm like, "Free yourself, Kai. Do whatever you want at any given moment." That, I think, is the manifestation of the sacrifices that people in Black history that we learned about want for us. That is how I approach it.

I think it is also just a moment to be intentional about that because I'm like this 365 days a year, but Black History Month has just always been the moment where I'm like, "Okay, now, let's all collectively come together and do this thing and celebrate all of the ways in which we are Black and all Black culture, which is infused throughout this country's history on many levels."

Brian: Listeners, we have time for a few phone calls in this segment. What's Black History Month mean to you? Obviously, especially for African-American listeners, do you fully embrace it? Are you a little skeptical? Do you look forward to it? Do you do anything special to observe it each year? 646-435-7280. On your relationship to Black History Month, 646-435-7280.

I want to play a clip from the United States of Anxiety podcast for this episode maybe to convince Kai. Veralyn, you recorded you and your friends talking a little bit, and I want to play one of the comments. This from a woman who, like Kai, I guess, is very proud of her heritage, but the context of where she experienced Black History Month, in this case, her mostly white classroom, made her dislike it. This is Zakiya.

Zakiya: I was brought up in a lot of white spaces. I actually remember-- I'm just now realizing I felt this way like hindsight. Being one of the only Black kids, all these white kids, I remember being like cringey, internal eye rolls, because it's like, "Okay, now you all want to talk about Rosa Parks? Now you all want dah, dah, dah." Then, people turn to me like, "Oh my God, Zakiya. Zakiya, you should play Rosa Parks. Zakiya, you should play We Shall Overcome on the bells," which I did.

[laughter]

Brian: Oh boy, you even got the bells in there in that clip. Nice production. Veralyn, you won her over in a way, right?

Veralyn: What she says after that moment is that what she loved about my parties was, it didn't send her whiteness. It wasn't about white people. The idea that Black history is relegated to the Black people in the room to come and tell white people about these perfect people in history is not a thing at my party because it's about the vibe. Zakiya, she used to be a producer at Nancy RIP. As someone that is queer-

Brian: [unintelligible 00:06:14].

Veralyn: -and is into all the intersectionalities, Zakiya shows up with her Black self, and she's partying and she's vibing to Knuck If You Buck. First of all, the fact that Knuck If You Buck was on the radio on Sunday [laughs] is like a career highlight for me on WNYC's radio station for that matter.

Brian: You want to help other people to Knuck If You Buck who don't know?

Veralyn: Oh my gosh. [laughs] Knuck If You Buck is the unofficial Black Anthem. It's the song that-- If you listen to that episode, you hear like-- It's a show that evokes freedom to be angry, to get buck. It's a way of being among Black people when you're with Black people, where you feel like, "Okay, if I wasn't in the space, I'll be more conscious of knucking and bucking," because the idea that a Black person is knucking and bucking, oftentimes, in this country, means, that's something to be feared. That's something to, "Oh, wait. We're on alert. What's happening over there?" How do we allow ourselves to get buck when we are angry because there's something that's making you angry without that self-conscious. I think that's the key. How do we get out of that consciousness of what it means to be Black in America?

Brian: I want to get some callers on here in our limited time. Kai, I want to play one more clip from the podcast that you bring in. I'm talking about a history clip. This is from 1956 when the mayor of New York City was Robert Wagner, and he declared the observance of what was then called Negro History Week. Here's 37 seconds of Mayor Wagner.

Mayor Wagner: Now, therefore, I Robert F. Wagner, mayor of the city of New York, do hereby proclaim the period of February 12th through February 19th, 1956 as Negro History Week in New York City and do hereby call upon our schools, libraries, and other public and private institutions to conduct proper observance of Negro History Week by means of classroom lectures, public gatherings, and participation by all possible and public tribute, scheduled for February 19th, devoted to the recognition of all citizens.

Brian: Well, that's the first time I heard that. For one thing, that's when a proclamation from the mayor was a proclamation, "I hereby proclaim."

[laughter]

Brian: Kai, why did you include that?

Kai: Well, this is 30 years after Carter G. Woodson initially starts this idea of Negro History Week, which would grow to be Black History Month as we understand it today. There's a couple of things about that. One, Carter G. Woodson's project was actually more radical than I understood before I started digging into it. It was a public history project for Black people to remind us that we did in fact have a history and that was important because it was only 50 years after slavery.

He felt like it was a very important thing that we popularized the notion of Black history, that there is a Black history to Black people, and not just notable figures but all of us, and that then become a tool for informing educational curriculums. What happened over the next 30 years, it turned out to be way more popular than he had imagined, and pretty quickly, it got to a place where he was complaining of the "charlatans" who had picked it up and were running with it and making money off of it.

Brian: Already?

Kai: Yes, and using it as a diversity checkbox. They didn't use those words back then, but in that way, as opposed to actually being about learning Black history and teaching a different Black consciousness. By the time we get to the '50s, you've got mayors, Mayor Wagner did it, but they did it all over the country. Mayors all over the country did this.

It's a testament to, at that stage, how dedicated the movement, nonetheless, despite all of this sort of commercialization and tokenization that had already happened, how dedicated the movement that Carter G. Woodson had started was because he had created these chapters all over the country that were pressuring mayors, like Mayor Wagner, to proclaim the whole city celebrate Negro History Week. By that point already, we're challenged to hold two truths at once about Black History Month and-

Brian: Two truths at once.

Kai: -Negro History Week.

Brian: So many ways on so many things, right? Let's get a few phone calls in here. Let me ask everybody to be brief so we could get a few voices on in our remaining time, and then, I refer you to the podcast and the rest of the month of Sundays on United States of Anxiety. Reginald in Harlem, you're on WNYC. Thanks so much for calling in, Reginald. Hi.

Reginald: Hi. Thank you. I just want to say that, for me, I think Black History Month has been reduced to commercials from McDonald's and Coca-Cola, if I'm watching television always here, "Coca-Cola celebrates Black History Month," and it just doesn't [unintelligible 00:11:22] on that. I wish there were a federal, if you will, coordinated effort to say, "Okay, next February, for Black History Month, these are the issues we're going to focus on. We're going to highlight these parts of Black history, et cetera. We're going to highlight what we need to do." There needs to be some coordinated effort, and it should be pushed out at that level so everyone's getting the same message, it's driven home, it's a much bigger, more important thing. Thank you.

Brian: Reginald, thank you so much. Let's go to Janice in Westchester. You're on WNYC. Hi, Janice.

Janice: Hi, good morning, Brian. Quickly, I just wanted to say Black History Month has become of utmost importance to me now that I'm a parent and I'm living in Westchester with a less than diverse population than I grew up with in New York City and now having a child and there's so many complications around how Black history is taught in school and having to educate myself in my 20s because I was an immigrant. It was Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks so I had to educate myself through reading The Warmth of Other Suns, The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks, things like that.

Now, with my child, with her being one of few BIPOC children in her school, I've installed, and I'm actually adding more to it today, a Black History Month bulletin board. The PTA got together, and we have a Black History Month speaker, Ayesha Bo, coming in at the end of the month virtually to speak to the kids. Just the importance of parents, making sure that this history is taught no matter where you are, whether you're in the city or whether you're in a suburb in the middle of America or wherever, Black History Month is just critically important to me and I hope to others as well. Thank you, speaker, as well.

Brian: Janice, thank you so much. Let's go on to Allison in Jericho on the island. Hi, Allison, you're on WNYC.

Allison: Hi, how are you?

Brian: Good. How are you?

Allison: I'm a big fan of yours. Anyway. We listen to you every day.

Brian: [unintelligible 00:13:19].

Allison: Okay. Well, I had said to the young lady, who picked up the phone, I said I agree with the two callers. I think Black history should be a more serious approach. It's, as the gentlemen had said before, too much of a commercial and a McDonald minute. That's what it is. It's more of a McDonald's minute or a Coca-Cola minute. I find that it's not good for our children, all children.

Brian: Is there a way to make-

Allison: It has to be much more serious.

Brian: It sounds like the previous caller, Janice, was trying very hard to make it good for her children.

Allison: Yes.

Brian: Is there a way, in your opinion?

Allison: Yes, I think that it should be done like all history. It should be part of history in all the history books. That's how it should be, not just very small.

Brian: Allison-- Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Allison: In the history books. That's all it is.

Brian: Allison, thank you very, very much. One more, Donna in Queens, you are on WNYC. Hi, Donna.

Donna: Hi, it's so great to talk to you guys. I just wanted to say that my family, we celebrate it every day and I celebrate it with the new immigrants that come here because we've been here as Black Americans for 400-- I'll just round it off, 20 years, and we are Americans. We fought for this country and we have so much history to give. We have land that was taken from us that should be given back to us. We built the White House. We didn't destroy it like our federate brothers. We fought for this country, and in 1900, when our soldiers came back, they hung us and lynched us. There's a lot of history. We shouldn't hide it, and I am appalled at our YouTube by using B-H-- I can't even-

Brian: YouTube?

Donna: It's just frustrating how they just-- YouTube, yes. BHM, and I'm like, "What is that?"

[laughter]

Brian: The initials of Black History Month.

Donna: What is that about?

Brian: Donna, I'm going to leave it there. Donna, thank you so much. I'm going to get Kai and Veralyn to reflect on that in our last two and a half minutes in the program and on all the callers who we just took. Kai, want to go first?

Kai: Well, one of the things I want to point out is that Carter Woodson did, in fact, imagine a very serious program. That's where the Negro History Week came from. The idea was it was to be a catalyst for an educational program about Black history as American history throughout the educational system. That was the vision for it. It went awry very quickly, but that was the project. The caller who wanted a serious program, he was onto something, Carter Woodson agreed.

Veralyn: Also, I think Black folks are not monolithic. I think some people are thriving for serious and some people are thriving for the freedom to have a party. It just struck me like even the calls itself shows just a differing of people's feelings. I guess what I want more than anything is for Black people to feel free to do whatever they want. [chuckles] If you wanted to be celebrated every year, celebrate it once a year, feel like you don't want to scent to whiteness, feel like-- Also, the idea that, "Oh, it needs to look this particular way because it's not happening," I feel like that's an erasure of what is happening.

When Reginald said there needs to be a coordinated effort against the issues that are happening in the Black community, well, there are people working on that. You should go find them and be in community with them. This idea that, "Oh, because what I want, I don't see it, therefore, it doesn't exist, and that's what it should look like," A, it probably does exist, and B, if you want that to exist, then, make it happen. [laughs]

Brian: I hear there's no one way to be you, no matter what group you're in, and that's certainly the case with people who want to observe Black History Month. You're going to continue to examine Black History Month in the next couple of episodes on the United States of Anxiety. Kai, what's coming up, and this is both the podcast and a live show, right?

Kai: That's right, Sunday nights at 6:00 PM Eastern, we're right here. This week, we're going to be talking to author, Saidiya Hartman, about the Black history that was happening below the boldface names at the moment that Negro History Week came about. She's trying to sort of rewrite into Black history these, what she calls, wayward lives and beautiful experiments. Those are the people that I can relate to. We're going to talk about them.

Brian: Kai Wright, host of WNYC's the United States of Anxiety, the podcast and the live, Sunday night call-in show, in the 6:00 PM hour, right after All Things Considered on Sunday nights, and Veralyn Williams, senior producer for the United States of Anxiety. Thank you both for coming on and having part of that dialogue here and talking to the callers. By the way, what's the YouTube thing, did you get that?

Kai: It's a hashtag.

Veralyn: I think she was just mad at the acronym, the acronym BHM. [laughs]

Kai: It's become a hashtag.

Veralyn: TikTok kids are doing it. I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry.

Brian: Thanks a lot, guys.

[laughter]

Veralyn: Bye. Thanks, Brian.

Kai: Thank you, Brian

 

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