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Tiffany Hanssen: This is All Of It. I'm Tiffany Hanssen in for Alison Stewart. A note from Alison, she would like you to know that she is on medical leave after discovering a brain abscess. Alison recovering following a successful surgery, and man, oh man, we can't wait to have her back, but in the meantime, coming up on today's show, we will talk to the director and star of the new film, Femme. We will speak with author Lynn Slater about her new book, How to Be Old: Lessons in Living Boldly from the Accidental Icon, and Long Island locals, The Lemon Twigs perform live in studio to preview their new album of 1960s power pop. That's the plan, so let's get started with a little science fiction.

[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: You and Me]

Tiffany Hanssen: Tomorrow Netflix will release its long-awaited series adaptation of the 2008 sci-fi novel 3 Body Problem by Cixin Liu. The title refers to a problem in physics where it's apparently impossible to predict the movements of three different objects, like stars, for example, that are moving around under the influence of each other's gravity. It's too chaotic to come up with any rules that could help understand those movements. What the heck does that have to do with communist China's violent cultural revolution in the '60s and '70s? Well, I guess you just have to watch the series to find out if you haven't already read the book.

It's a story that spans centuries and includes such sci-fi staples as virtual reality, extra dimensions, alien encounters. These ideas are woven together into an epic exploration of humanity's future on the grandest scales, big enough that President Obama once quipped that he enjoyed it because it made his "day-to-day problems with Congress seem fairly petty". The novel won the Hugo Award in 2015 after being translated into English the year before, and now that story is coming to a screen near you. The series was created by showrunners David Benioff, DB Weiss, and Alexander Woo. You might recognize Benioff and Weiss's penchant for drama from a little show called Game of Thrones.

A New Yorker review of the 3 Body Problem, Nick says it mixes heady theoretical questions with genuine spectacle and heart. The Rotten Tomatoes critics' consensus is that the series "tackles its ambitious source material with impressive gusto". Joining us to talk about it is Rosalind Chao, who plays Ye Wenjie, one of the story's most pivotal figures, who we follow from the traumas of Mao's China into the present, in which she's introduced as a respected retired scientist at the heart of many of the show's plot points. Hi, Rosalind.

Rosalind Chao: Hello. That was a mouthful. Very impressive.

Tiffany Hanssen: Thank you. Time for me to go home now. All right. Thank you. We're just so glad you're here in the studio. Listeners, Rosalind and I would like to invite you into this conversation as well. Have you read The 3 Body Problem? Are you excited about the new series? We would love to hear from you about what you think makes this story so compelling. The number is 212-433-9692. You can also text us at that number, 212-433-WNYC, but please, no spoilers. Just what you're excited about in terms of this really exciting science fiction story. 212-433-9692. Rosalind, let's start with science fiction. This is not your first foray.

Rosalind Chao: You're outing me [laughs].

Tiffany Hanssen: I'm outing you. You were Keiko O'Brien in Star Trek, right?

Rosalind Chao: The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine.

Tiffany Hanssen: Correct.

Rosalind Chao: Yes.

Tiffany Hanssen: Great. However, you have said publicly that science fiction really isn't a genre that you have sought out in your career.

Rosalind Chao: No.

Tiffany Hanssen: What's happening?

Rosalind Chao: And/or in my entertainment taste either, but as is the case with The Next Generation, it's not classic science fiction, I don't think. 3 Body Problem problem actually has so many other elements. There's a love story that will make you wonder if you will ever be loved in that way. There's a detective story. Every time I say this, I feel like I'm sounding like I'm selling a used car or something, but I really do mean it. This story is so engaging on other levels as well, but if you are a science person, science lover, science fiction person, fantasy lover, gamer, you will also be engrossed by it, but I'm not that, and I was completely bowled over. I was shocked at how good it was.

Tiffany Hanssen: Well, right? I would say I put myself in the same camp as you, and I think about, for example, the movie Us. I don't consider myself a horror person.

Rosalind Chao: Me neither.

Tiffany Hanssen: Love the movie.

Rosalind Chao: Same.

Tiffany Hanssen: Right?

Rosalind Chao: Right.

Tiffany Hanssen: If you're listening to this and you're thinking, "All right, time to go do the dishes because I don't like science fiction." That's not what we're saying. What we're saying is there's a really great story at the heart of this. Is that what really drew you here is what I'm hearing.

Rosalind Chao: Yes. Well, what really drew me to do this show was Benioff and Weiss and Woo. When I met them at first, before meeting them, I thought, "Okay, I've never seen Game of Thrones," so I wasn't just overwhelmed with nervousness when I met them, but on meeting them you know instantly about how much they care about their projects. They delivered this baby like the best possible doula. You know what I mean? They were on the set every time. I've never felt so well taken care of as an actor, as an artist, and their writing's incredible.

Tiffany Hanssen: Well, as evidenced by Game of Thrones, there's an epic quality to it.

Rosalind Chao: And so many surprises. Even though I had read the books, I had read the script, I was on set, I still gasped many times and had to binge because I was shocked at how well they carried this through. I have since recorded the audiobook.

Tiffany Hanssen: Right, I want to ask you about that.

Rosalind Chao: Well, what was shocking is when you read a book, you usually can envision it in your imagination, and this is a case where the book is wonderful, and as wonderful as it is, my imagination wasn't as good as the finished product of 3 Body Problem. What they came up with was bigger than I could imagine. I was shocked.

Tiffany Hanssen: In some ways that can feel unwieldy. We mentioned, I think, in my open. Was it The New Yorker and Rotten Tomatoes both said, it's ambitious source material impressive, gusto. It's ambitious.

Rosalind Chao: Oh, yes. Honestly, it was a little scary to start out with. Even their schedule was ambitious because I was on another project, Sweet Tooth, filming that for Netflix, and had to sort of jog back and forth between projects and even the scheduling, the locations, everything was so ambitious and scheduled to the second, and yet they make it work. They make everything work. I feel like they make the impossible possible.

Tiffany Hanssen: We have a text here that says, Keiko O'Brien, I loved you in Next Generation and Deep Space Nine. I'm an old-time Star Trek fan. I know the role was limited, but you were great in it.

Rosalind Chao: Oh, that's so sweet.

Tiffany Hanssen: Very nice.

Rosalind Chao: Thank you.

Tiffany Hanssen: I want to talk about your character here in 3 Body Problem, but since we got a text here, I'll just remind listeners, you can join this conversation, if you've read The 3 Body Problem, if you're excited about this new series, and we want to hear what you think makes it such a compelling story. We're talking about how compelling it is. What do you think? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. The audiobook you mentioned, I'm wondering how you-- because you voiced the audiobook.

Rosalind Chao: Yes, I just did it after post-filming.

Tiffany Hanssen: What did you carry from filming into the audiobook?

Rosalind Chao: They're two separate elements, so, in fact, I think I had to divorce myself from the filming because they really wanted it more with an American accent, et cetera. Whereas for the filming, Ye was born in China, but she moves to England, so there was a combo platter accent of Chinese and British. I had to program myself.

Tiffany Hanssen: Just so we're clear, Ye is your character in 3 Body Problem, right?

Rosalind Chao: Exactly.

Tiffany Hanssen: Let's talk about that character. A really complex character. We talk about the story overall that drew you to it, but what is specifically about that character drew you to her?

Rosalind Chao: You know what, it's just incredible to play someone who's such a shapeshifter and adapts to her circumstances in a way that is actually quite brilliant. I don't think of her as a villain, I think of her as the result-- her actions are as a result of a generational trauma. She does what she does as a result of feeling hopeless and not knowing that the rest of the world isn't going through the same trauma that she and her family and her country were going through. She makes that move thinking that another form of life is going to help humanity.

It sounds so sci-fi, but it really isn't. Then she has this relationship with her daughter, and that has a whole other side. There's so many elements to her character. She's a mentor to the young people who are actually trying to find out what is going on with-- I hesitate to say aliens because then people will think it's so limited. They're not people like little green men, I promise.

Tiffany Hanssen: Just to be clear, when we talk about, you mentioned the complexity and the breadth of her character, she did witness her father, a physicist, being beaten to death, refusing to renounce Einstein's theory of relativity. That's during China's cultural revolution. I'm curious how you present you as an actor, as someone who is tasked with portraying visually that trauma in her.

Rosalind Chao: I, of course, have relatives who have been through similar situations. I think anybody who has had some form of trauma, there's a way of burying it that forms a crust is the only thing I can say. Also, I had seen the actress who plays the young Ye. I'd seen her footage beforehand, and I noticed that she was much more guarded than I was planning to play Ye. I felt like in old age, she would become even more so, and Dan and David and Alex really helped me through that, along with our wonderful directors. As you can see, I wear my emotions on my sleeve, like it or hate it, but Ye is very different.

She's probably the most different of any other character that I've played. She does not let her vulnerabilities show. You do not know.

Tiffany Hanssen: How does that look physically for you? How does that?

Rosalind Chao: Honestly, I had to age up for the part. They made wrinkles, they grayed my hair. Ye is vibrant, but age has taken its toll. Her life has taken its toll. Physically, that was the most challenging part is to not let-- you know how you've met those people who you can't tell, are they happy? Do they hate me? Are they-- she's that.

Tiffany Hanssen: I'm the person that always thinks everybody hates me [laughs].

Rosalind Chao: Me, too. What's wrong with us? [laughs].

Tiffany Hanssen: That's a whole other show. All right. We have a text here. "Read the books, streamed the Chinese TV series, couldn't be more excited for the Netflix version 3 Body Problem is amazing." Did you watch the Chinese television version before doing this?

Rosalind Chao: No, I didn't. I think the Chinese television version is that, it's like the book from beginning to end. The Netflix version has taken the book and expanded it to a universal audience. You have people across all countries in the book. You've got a Northern English detective Benny Wong. You've got Eiza González, you have a wonderful new Kiwi actress from New Zealand, Jess Hong. We've got British actor Alex Sharp. We've got a couple of Game of Thrones actors. It's really a diverse cast, and they did that just because it's a larger threat than just based in one country. They've expanded it out of love, not out of just wanting to change for change sake.

Tiffany Hanssen: While we're talking about locations, and we got a text here that says, "I really hope the character and location in present-day China is not 'Americanized'." That's not what I'm hearing.

Rosalind Chao: It's universalized. Yes, if you're married to the book and the Chinese version of it, this is going to be very different. You have to open up your expanse and approach it with a clean slate and not expect an apple to be an orange, but at the same time, it's still delicious fruit.

[laughter]

Tiffany Hanssen: I like it. I'll take it. Here's an interesting question while we were talking about sci-fi and some people's reluctance when they hear sci-fi. Given the recent-- this is a text that came in, given the recent whistleblower claims about UFOs, et cetera, how do you think the reception of this show will land in terms of the larger debate question about our place in the cosmos? Well, that's a question that the show undertakes.

Rosalind Chao: That's a great question, because honestly, when that stuff started coming out, poor Dan and Dave, I think I forwarded it to them as if they didn't already know saying, "Oh my God, our timing is perfect." Yes, it definitely dips its toe into that world and is underneath that umbrella. Underneath that, you really see how people deal with existential threats that could mean the end of humanity as we know it. We do have those threats even without UFOs, let's be honest. It's how people join. Do they join together? Do they drift apart? Do they tell each other they love them when they normally wouldn't have? I mean, this story is bigger than sci-fi.

Tiffany Hanssen: We're getting some great texts in.

Rosalind Chao: Oh, really?

Tiffany Hanssen: Rosalind, how does this show engage or not with the current anti-science paradigm we're seeing in-- Science is almost a character in this, I think.

Rosalind Chao: It is. I don't want to ruin the enjoyment or the suspense, but yes, it does address the science and the value and devaluation of science and the monetizing of science as well. It addresses all that without hitting you over the head and without you realizing it's actually about that.

Tiffany Hanssen: Let's talk about your character again. What does science mean to Ye?

Rosalind Chao: Well, Ye, it was her life, it was her passion. Ye was a science prodigy, her parents were both very distinguished in the scientific world. Her daughter was a professor of physics, so physics is her life. I don't know if that part is still in the show, but at one point, I do believe that my character actually expresses that that physics was my life.

Tiffany Hanssen: I would like to bring a caller in.

Rosalind Chao: Okay. Come on in. Be nice, though.

Tiffany Hanssen: Steve in New Jersey. Welcome to All Of It. Hi, Steve.

Steve: Hi, thanks for taking my call. Really enjoyed all three of the books. You don't get to be a Hugo Award winner if it's not a quality book. Rosalind, are you able to spill the beans on whether or not there will be an adaptation for the Dark Forest, the second book in the trilogy?

Rosalind Chao: I don't know, but I do know that if all of you watch 3 Body Problem then there will be an adaptation, but you'll see that there's melding of--

Tiffany Hanssen: Not to put too fine a point on it.

[laughter]

Rosalind Chao: I'm just being honest. There's melding of Dark Forest and Book 3 into this story. You'll see. Since you've read all three books, you'll see that it intertwines.

Tiffany Hanssen: We got to hold onto those beans. We're not going to give any spoilers here, are we? No.

Rosalind Chao: No. No spoilers. Oops. Did I spoil?

Tiffany Hanssen: No, I don't think so. I think we're doing all right. You mentioned a little bit young Ye played by Zine Tseng. You watched her performance. What stood out for you from that as something that you could-- I know you had to transform that a little bit because you're playing an older virgin-- version, but was there some--

Rosalind Chao: Maybe older virgin [laughs].

Tiffany Hanssen: Right? Yes. We're not going to go there yet.

Rosalind Chao: No spoilers.

Tiffany Hanssen: That's right. [laughter] Sorry. Rosalind, help me.

Rosalind Chao: Sorry.

Tiffany Hanssen: Was there something that-

Rosalind Chao: I'm sorry [laughs].

Tiffany Hanssen: -you could keep?

Rosalind Chao: Yes.

Tiffany Hanssen: In other words, there's part of young me that people who knew young me see in me now.

Rosalind Chao: Absolutely.

Tiffany Hanssen: What did we see in Young Ye that we see in your character?

Rosalind Chao: Young Ye's portion is mainly in Mandarin. From watching her-- The actress, too, Zine and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum as far as our personality, everything goes. I was able to observe that she is maybe a little bit more similar to certain relatives I have. I did watch her movements so that I was able to incorporate a little bit of that physically, but internally, that wound had lots of years to develop because I play her decades later. That wound, it grows a scab over it. As a result, I do think she becomes even more guarded than she already started out.

She starts out very strong, very powerful, steely. As an older woman, I actually softened her a little bit as a older woman eventually, but she still had to have that spine that the Young Ye has.

Tiffany Hanssen: What about her impulsivity?

Rosalind Chao: I didn't see that as impulsivity. I, in fact, saw that as her decisions were made as a result of the extreme trauma that she experienced. Any one of those traumas would have taken most of us down. The fact is she experienced trauma, after trauma, after trauma and betrayal, so what does she have faith in after that? She has no faith in humanity after all that she experienced. She has to have faith in something, and something comes into her world that promises a greater future. In my mind, that was a smart decision given everything that she's been through. Isn't life like that? Sometimes you make one decision you think that is immediate, but you don't realize the long-term effects.

Tiffany Hanssen: Does she have hope?

Rosalind Chao: I think that's what her decision is based on, a certain level of hope. She's really optimistic in saving humanity or readapting humanity. I do believe that she has hope.

Tiffany Hanssen: Do you think people will be left with a sense of hope?

Rosalind Chao: Oh, that's a good question. I'm just going to put it this way, that when I watched it, I gasped, I cried, and there are things in it that I can't stop thinking about. I felt that way when I read the book, but even more so when it's brought to life. The actors they have are wonderful. I just love these people. They bring each of the characters to life so that you will be haunted by it. I think you will be. If you're not, don't come back and complain to me, but I was haunted by it.

Tiffany Hanssen: Well, Rosalind Chao, we think you're wonderful.

Rosalind Chao: You're so nice. Thank you so much.

Tiffany Hanssen: Rosalind Chao plays Ye Wenjie. Did I get that right?

Rosalind Chao: Jie, Ye Wenjie.

Tiffany Hanssen: Ye Wenjie. Thank you.

Rosalind Chao: Very good.

Tiffany Hanssen: One of the story's most pivotal figures, the story of course, 3 Body Problem, and it is streaming on Netflix tomorrow.

 

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