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W N Y C prevent the City Club. Each week at this time see more in Siegel interview people in the public eye on issues of current interest and now here is Mr SIEGEL How do you do ladies and gentlemen and welcome to so they close up it's a great personal privilege for us to have as our guest on this edition of so the close up the general manager of the Metropolitan Opera so she action was to root out the thing with a bang welcome to city close up thank you and I think we're used to being I have a brain I first question you and tell us a little bit about the mother part upper association we hear a great deal of it nonprofit and other times we had talk of profit what about this when the first time I hear talk of profiting Connectionism of the product and this is a word which really doesn't exist in our vocabulary I'm sorry to say no we are entirely nonprofit it's a private organization which is run by a lot of directors but is a board of directors do the bread of directors are of course responsible for the main overall policy I'm with Ponsonby to the board of directors and they are very largely and happily successfully confounded was found waiting this is by no means already doing what it is a very important function because without it in the pilot and simply would not exist does the road I could have anything to do with the determination the weather season the Rapa Shelby or Zus No the only ride I have a problem I am entirely with sponsors and so knew a sponsor for the artistic pogrom I have of called a committee with whom I discuss my plans and ideas and they explain their view. Which hour was of interest and of importance to me and then of course the financial aspects come very much on the board supervision because I have to stay within a certain budget not outside of the budgetary considerations does the board play any role in the final decision of what shall constitute a season of opera No they really don't contractually it's hard to define because fortunately unhappily my relationship with the board is such a pleasant and happy one that everything is freely and frankly discussed and mutually agreed upon but the board has in the fifteen years that I've now been here never once attempted to make me either engage or nothing the age of the particular artist the board is never wrong tempted to make me do not do a particular opera so they really I have nothing but place and thank God explain the efficient and then have complied artistic freedom I have complete artistic freedom within of course budgetary limitations which are severe and speaking about budget to bring How much does it actually course to mount a seasonal opera the Metropolitan Opera well. Our deficit this season in round figures will be about a million and a half. Which is of course chickenfeed if you compare it with. Organizations of our standing in Europe say the scarlet Milan or even very much smaller our powers like the OP about the state operating the another our pals in Berlin have deficits which are marketed our figure nevertheless here where we have no kind of say the world or any other subsidy it's a large amount of money to raise a million and a half and that is what the board is doing we live on contributions large and small from individuals from corporations first time last year the big and important corporation is considered the whole price of a new production of Aida. We have a very wonders R M A two and numbers what does it cost to produce a new or without an across an Oliver poly on the work of the type of work on the. Big calls in the small calls and had to call the beggars or cross dressers and all that sort of thing happens to be a very big production and I don't recall the exact figure but I think it was unable to one of the seven hundred eighty thousand dollars which of causing again is very little compared to Broadway where there's been twice as much and more on the production but then we were very economically we build our scene in our own workshops we do a great deal of our own costumes not all of them in our own workshops. But of course we have a substantial deficit as I said even though our income is very substantial we say the evidence of ninety six percent of capacity to deceive and which I think I may say is put the unique in the ethic of your American wonder statement well as everything else from the. Left to bring tell us all a little bit about the system of programs you think that this is an absolute requirement in order to keep an artistic endeavor such as the Metropolitan Opera going there is no opera house in the Royal it that is self-supporting and as I said. Our deficit large as it is is a fraction of that it's of important apologies in Europe as long as you have to employ these huge artistic groups like an orchestra of nearly a hundred a course of well over a belly of forty or it might to be figures compared to Broadway where you occasionally have a quote of thirty on Orcas of the day for something like that. Plot very heavy scene early which in the early House had to be carted to the tune of about two hundred thousand dollars a year to the way out and that. This is impossible to make self-supporting and indeed there's never been anywhere in the world and I don't think it ever will be another where you can never inverses the possible of an opera enterprise such as a matter upon the ever becoming self-supporting in terms of the public attendance because you can't do that and sell out which is virtually what we do and our prices are definitely reasonable but they're not cheap so it cannot it cannot be said for what about subsidiary income such as the national company for example or such things as broadcast. Well the national company you must not confuse with the Metropolitan Opera the national companies a new enterprise which is run by the inequality conceived and won by them with a bullet in opera but it is economically completely independent from our main operation and it certainly won't be won't contribute to our income even if anything contribute to our loss because there again it cannot be self-supporting. But the. The radio of course is an important contribution to our income and that is very nearly all there is to it of no such things as recordings for example and recordings virtually ceased to exist because the unions have pride themselves out of the market meaning the musicians union their weights are such that all of the cotton companies go to Europe you can see a recording going on all the time in Rome and in Ghana where they have the benefit the money the orchestra and in the world some very good Italian orchestra for half or less than half the price that they have to pay. In the United States and consequently the Chili Bowl operatic recordings now down New York and nothing anymore. United States which is a great city in the great shame was to bring racially the discussion in the press about saving the mother part of the house after you move to your new quarters up until incomes are saving it for a third opera grew out of the film about I saw that well. As I think it's totally unrealistic except of course anything can be done that they ought to do that I thought about did stated that so many many young American artists now then Europe. Could come back and. People this is where a new opera company this is to some extent true there are quite a number of young American in Europe and quite a few of whom I hope the best of we are bringing back for the national and company just one of the reasons why we are doing it to give young American artists a chance to perform in their own country in reading gauge the considerable number of young American singers who will come back in the field with the myth of quality of our national company all over the country and in New York. To. Keep the Metropolitan Opera House they always House. Company which should consist according to this new plan of unknown young and I hope talented singers it cheap prices seems to me totally unrealistic unless the sponsors of the scheme will face up to an annual deficit of I would think between five and six million dollars obviously for this amount of money almost anything can be done whether it's worthwhile doing it and whether how and how long you can afford to do this sort of thing. In another. Product called one or one reason is just a fallacy I'm always told this would again give. Up a pub loving public in New York a chance to come in at cheaper prices well we have now approximately seven hundred in the house below five dollars Of course they are not the best thing the city center the problem ninety five you get the best seem to realize that but then I hope there is. Some difference in the performance which is only natural to does and has a very much lower budget and consequently of course cannot be expected to have some of the things that we have very much higher selling Well most are to ocean provider or when you go when you move to a long term server of course there will again be several home but many hundred cheap seats by cheap I mean say up to five dollars or five dollars fifty. There won't be the best seat in the house naturally but then you can hear for these five fifty you will be able to hear what we still hope are the world's greatest singers on a must bring you much and something about young talent you want to talk about how you go about. Discovering new talent. Well we have various means of doing that in the United States there is a huge organization now which has been built up largely by the middle part is not on National Council we have a vision virtually all the year round all over the United States in various areas where any bonafide young singer can is heard and then we send out from the Metropolitan. Judges to these regions to hear their winners. And then those who are picked by these judges are brought to New York where eventually we hear them I hear them with the other committee and judge and we always find one or two people who then offer prizes and one of them being conflict with the Metropolitan Opera in addition to that I have of course proper Scouts in Europe and I have gone to Europe every year so far or few weeks traveling around all over the place in Germany where we like Scandinavian countries and I don't think there are too many things Ivan United or in Europe who I or some of my colleagues haven't heard. And unfortunately there are too many of the around the time Bob we have always bought some that both American and European and on the whole I think we are if you look at our we are not doing too badly but to bring what would you say with a major difficulties would you encounter in murdering a new season. There Well there are so many you will have to give me another hour for that. But briefly Well briefly one of the greatest difficulties is talented as you call it there are just very few really great singers in the world and they are wanted everywhere usually at the same time and. The middle Politan doesn't pay as well as some other organizations got the world in the United States on fiscal pays more Chicago pays more the scholarly middle and pays more in addition to the fact that nobody pays taxes in your BY don't know how they do it but nobody pays taxes in Italy and here the Italian think if we withholding tax I mean try to explain to an Italian tenor they're all convinced that I'm keeping it you know so. The quiz ition of the right really living thing of of the world both American and fallen rum major that a good thing there's never time the when they do come they have a television show and. Come to the baby feeding get the New York it's become a completely commercialized I mean Art doesn't into a thing of very much anymore with very few exceptions it's money in their little lead but apart from that there is of course our own money problems new productions. As I said seen and costumes is a huge expense the days and had to be carefully Judge what do we really need in the way of a new production What can we do that will revive with the help of time is always a problem. Well up or no I never situations where to stick decisions of modified because of budgetary considerations Well if you run if you like one of the sections of separate life that everything is intellect there is no artistic decision which is not at the same time a financial decision and vice versa because if I want to engage a particular artist who is very expensive Well it's both a financial and a method big decision and there's no question that from time to time my artistic decisions have financial accountability but again I would feel that overall I've been able to do more or less what I set out to do and I have no reason to complain I mean it was to bring on others might be a difficult question because you're probably prejudiced and rightfully so but how does the mother power nap or compare with opera brought. Well I'm glad you're asking me because I. Some of our. Critics would probably not agree with me I think it is no doubt among the two or three best if not the best. Thing as there is very little to choose from because the few good things in the world are now or ever where we have them in the scholar had them and then the sudden this and again I have them and call them God and have them and that's about it and then of course something physical in Chicago has them do we usually divide our sort of tried to fit in the early stage of the season when the overlap but the production rises we are at least as good as Europe is. Where we lack. Where we are behind the contemporary repertory we don't do nearly as much infected with tween a little contemporary weapon which for which all the tech rightfully so I regretted nobody regretted more than I lose largely a budgetary problem this is a box office box of a problem that is just absolutely no question and no doubt that anybody who tells you otherwise is informed on lies that contemporary opera with very very few exceptions does not draw at the box office and as we have no kind of subsidy as I pointed out and therefore where the pendent than my European colleagues who are every one of them are subsidized having subsidized We are very much more abandon on the box office I have to choose what I want to close the House or the contemporary off or any number in quantity to bring with regard to the box office. That attracts the audience or the work would bring before it's a combination there are some works which are so unpopular. That even popular thing cannot really. Some work with just so far pillar that even without the great name stars they will always have a good house and then of course the ideal combination when you live on the popular and popular things the new completely sell out and that is what we are what we have to attempt to do and Rob fortunately and happily succeeded in doing most of the time when I ask you when your opinion is the most popular operant terms of always selling I don't think Iran but there is a group already tell you here and it is. A form Aida to Bremen from common to both the fly and from from yacht the two does not represent a worldwide public. And tie. The singers over the bow up from the chorus they come in from the top so this. Uni don't develop on the go sometimes it happens not that hard and it certainly is very hard at the Metropolitan I mean you can't really expect to make the jump from the coach to a leading part at the what can happen is that we have a very good calls and good crossing of the day perhaps go for of some of the smaller you feel about how to develop and then come back and nothing would please me more than me more than the sort of cases. With the how do you finally make a decision with regard to which operate you're going to restate I mean you've indicated that I was going to be released and this is being the written by a corporation rugged out there you faction want to this was a decision made by you or them by the corporation one of the corporation was offered off would you be interested in from doing a new writer and they agreed to do it and we were very happy no that that would go to five hours from the could tell us about the who do that they haven't come to that yet about the. Well how does one decide that the dried it's a question of rubber opera's haven't been done for a long time then of course rock singers are available is that a profit and no point in deciding on a year you come to think you can wait so all these sort of consideration go into the letter do I What do we expect with the box office wise interesting and so on so a lot of conservation is a complicated job. But what about the class I know that there's a just on him or another if you. I'm sure because of course it is impossible ever to really track it down in detail because nothing a will ever admit that he. Pays pluck and he makes his own arrangements privately in the apartment or in some back and some that's gone I don't know where and contact with these people come and buy the tickets in the regular way at the box of it and stand in line for standing room Consequently I have no means of. Preventing it and it exists everywhere mainly in Italy but very loudly here here who I was vented I was granted I think totally unnecessary thing as we don't know. That the public mood at the spot the clock in the present and resisted allow the but that is sort of the mentality and. What happens when. Suddenly called upon to take the place over the stabber star who suddenly becomes another person is always an exciting moment but the show goes on would you rather that the most about happens all the time and the Metropolitan of cause because of its somewhat unique your graphic position has to have what we call on the studies everything that pop has to be covered in more than one because it can happen at any any time to the thing a good afternoon of playing that ankle or something and we must have a problem so we have covered as we call it for every part sometimes two or three of them and fortunately most of them are very good thing of themselves. No problem the method that in that respect there's open provide special opportunity. People out from time to. Time and I remember the classic case about the people when he was quite. Young I think with me now fifteen years ago twenty years ago if we get one or the other came. One of these cases he stepped in a few hours. From calm and I think it brought him there leaning on the mommy which is an important part and made a huge success and from then on never expected me to meet that extends the career the company and the board but this is not too frequently the case to bring what your view. God to the influence of critics. By professional critics that I hear the same influence on the success of a production from the point of view public attendance. Or. Must I answer that do not let leave because all I want about perma done is I mean are they really the traditional traditionally difficult people to handle when there are in a way. That all I think that operating is very hard working and generally people who are not more. Temperamental than normal people there is a substantial difference between being an op or and the bank manager for argument's sake. These people have their whole existence hangs on to little vocal call here and they've missed the Corelli for argument's sake things of sour note to the evening which after all can happen to any human being. Around the world on whether the morning moon effect is his career his record whatever you like consequently these people are Title two very. Memorable way and I mean every night they. Fight for their existence which the bank manager cannot say every morning he comes to his office. So that creates attention which requires. Handling Beyond that our problems involved something of come from very humble background either here or abroad they have very little education they get very quickly with same they suddenly find themselves on the front page of Life magazine and have the telephone doesn't seem. To ring with the top or the middle or Covent Garden Success Interview money recordings. Is. Very difficult have to be absorbed and is not needed to do that with the success that comes to think who are mentally education and culturally not all those equipped to handle it that causes problems and but on the whole I find the pleasant helpful hardworking. Money minded. Dancing. That was to do you look forward to. In the future retirement either side of the personal I think. Hopes and aspirations what about the future of all our members I do probably open with a new house which I will really be in from all plans and models and everything I know and see about tonight of course being deeply involved in it will I think be a lovely house not on the technically equipped but on it's a beautiful to look at and to get the inside will be in the early position of the re obviously would not be at the present let me thought it would be read the growing and Crystal and I think very much in line with the glamour of ethno fear that I think an awful lot of the new weapon probably would probably become the the classic your mom. Should have so I look forward that a match to the new out because I think given that now and then I do you feel that the so called cultural explosion in this country is real as it applies to the opera No I don't but then I'd rather confine nothing to link content than the Metropolitan Opera rather than what goes on in the left of the company which I don't know too much about on that note Mr Frey will bring this interview to a close it's been a great personal pleasure for us to have Mr Rudolph bang the general manager of the Metropolitan Opera here as our guest on so the close up we hope was to bring that you come and visit with us again to kill the future I know that we're going to have a great many of your colleagues as guests on this program or the coming weeks and that there's anything that we can do here at W N Y C N W N Y C T way to keep the people of New York informed of the magnificent activities going on at the Metropolitan I hope you won't have to take the call Thank you very much of not being with you will see Wrong again next week. City close that a weekly series of interviews in which the more N.Z. will interview people in the public eye if they miss it he goes again live with the Rudolf being general manager of the Metropolitan Opera Company Young us next week at the same time. That a close up was directed by John Barrow. With.