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At this time we bring you another in our continuing series of rebroadcasts W N Y C S award winning program narcotics in our Kartik addiction today's program concerns itself with the Salvation Army's approach to solutions. New York City has many problems one of the most serious is the problem of drug addiction to expose its roots and to let you know what is being done to rehabilitate addicts and to prevent further addiction your city station is presenting this week long series of special broadcasts these programs will cover all aspects of the use of narcotics the participants include the addicts themselves doctors social workers therapists and members of the city's Addiction Services Agency. In our studio now with us are members of the Salvation Army to talk about their narcotic treatment facility and their correctional services section for women as guests we have Brigadier Dorothy Berry narcotics consultant for the Salvation Army Major Mary Davis director of the women's correctional bureau and Captain Brian Figaro our director of the Salvation Army coffee house in Greenwich Village. Start first by talking with the Brigadier bracketed Artie Berry who is the narcotics consultant and we were talking just before we were on the air and we found out that our brigadier Barry has been a consultant all have been with the Salvation Army for well over forty five years and a great deal of that time I think you were telling me right in there you devoted to. Helping people have the narcotic problem and tell me how did you get into this field I thought to ask. What happened is that girls that were at the house of detention that we service and gave. Welfare Services to many of the most analysts but they were the old time hard core addicts and they learned looking to any agency or a goody good organization as they labeled us so that we had to learn to know them and to visit them so that they would come and visit us and very slowly they started coming to our office they didn't have too much faith that we could do anything for them but they came and we have to in that interview we have to give them such an. Interview that they will come back to that they'll come back again and try or you just have to do something to. To hold them they have no friends that they trust and they didn't have any help they said from an agency before so why expect one now and then a church agency because they never. Say Never What would you say that one of the most important things and the approach to the drug addict is to get his trust and of course to merit it definitely And if you do that the first time when they come in for a cup of coffee or a place to stay you give him a cup of coffee or a place to stay you don't preach at him at that time but if you're doing that and make a relationship and that and such reports that they'll come back again still with a friend and but eventually again and again people have written who we've helped in the past who will now talk about attending church going to Sunday School so that we see the drawing breath on what is was lost now you mentioned girls being the first rather large group that you worked with has this problem as far as your experience been concerned confined mostly to girls or have they been men as well well I don't open percentage wise how they are related to each other but I do know that there are many many girl Alex and I don't want anybody on the air to make a mistake that was made missing a few years ago when they had gotten beds but only for men only nuns and women so we got together with the owner of Manhattan General Hospital he had beds we had we offered them to city hall and then they took the women across Now that's the Bernstein Institute but they still have the women because we maintain that a sick woman need to bed just as bad as the sick man and the symptoms that. You've been handling and working with attics for many many years. Have you noticed any change over the years and the addict of say yes two years back quite a few years and the addict of today yes is one big change in knots in the lowering of the age group and the older ones I just saw are fading away we don't know when they stopped or if they stopped or if they died in another state where there's many records for our state we have no way of counting it but on a general basis I would say definitely they are more like school children teenagers young married couples. And if you are going now at sight of the age difference any personality difference that you might know. Well background experiences of these why they exist they come from a little better home most of them now and they did I don't know if you call it lower middle class middle class upper middle class but it's a dark type of person and of course we got involved with the families too we tried to work with the family and the girls. And I noticed that you have a program called Narcotics Anonymous at least that's the description of it is that the title of the official title of it is now what is that it's not hard it's anonymous is similar to after all it's anonymous that program is based on the same lines and they have permission of course of my age to use not colleagues anonymous people to get to begin with but the people that we were helping in the daytime and then sponsoring their group at night we had quite a job opening Narcotics Anonymous we didn't open it reeling one of the addicts who is revered amongst an experiment I numbered years ago Dan he started Narcotics Anonymous and he I was brought into the picture and treating royally and I knew they must have wanted something they wanted a place to me they couldn't get a place no churches or anywhere because whether her dividing a group about exceeded their own by themselves and even and so they asked. And we only had two places to offer because they weren't going to sit all evening and not smoke and there are only two of our places where they can go in the evening and smoke so they chose they had a choice of Harlem or Hell's Kitchen So they chose skits I even had a call from federal narcotic agency action possible that the Salvation Army is backing this telling me all the evils of it and I said well I spose a lot of those things will happen but if we get a few guys will be a few more than we had before. Now you mentioned starting this program that goes back quite a few years doesn't it on things. And at that time I think you mentioned earlier at least before we were broadcasting that there was no official program to help addicts that's all right I called and called and called and everybody was some of the very polite but they would go there ask them sending out and then if I did get someone to say that she the addict an awful lot of the service and we didn't have that they didn't have then when they the addicts went up there they were treated in such a different way not cruel but lacking understanding that they wouldn't go back and take the help and so we found that we had another job not wish to orient the addict to the public agency or the private agency because they've never had this experience and the agency never had this experience. Now getting down she admitted you have something else to say well yeah I want to say that after Danny died we got a Spanish woman that we knew through serving our former addict and chief and even now helping and I being attacked except for very poor health seems to be one of the titles of a life of addiction very poor health in one direction or another. And show that she is still keeping and we're still sponsoring. A. Number that have very Having worked with addicts over these many years. Do you have much success in rehabilitating them what do you hope to do when you take an addict on to give them aid may I ask you a question yes how do you define the word success I don't know I let you decide that I what I'm asking what do you want to do what is your goal when you take an addict my goal of course is the same as everybody we want them to change in live a full life enjoy themselves without drugs being drug free and are you able to do this in many cases well and that comes up to another one of the stumbling blocks which is statistics I can't see the struggle is woman made and all she went through and the time it took and then I say that it hasn't worked out very well because she's back on drugs again they have something they learn you know they feel some change in their personality after they have been with us a while even though they might slip and I understand and figuring out a alcoholics that they take them up there in a line count the number of days in the driveway and then if they saw another and how much longer and this is sneaking up on successive it isn't six that's the nature and we feel the same with the girls we have been on a virtual meeting once we're with Narcotics Anonymous and we prepare for our Somebody can do for our and it's girl it's made a year and I think this Spanish girl I spoke about has made about seventeen years. In other words you say you sort of sneak up on successive if a person flips back then that terribly important that they understand they must keep coming back not only that they come back again after they've said because they like the program that they had but they lost it and now they're coming back because they like it and that itself is a form of success in this trend where any little bitty thing in the right direction that success of one bring to bear we'll be talking with you more now would like to get to some. Of our other guests Major Mary Davis who is the director of the women's correctional bureau for the Salvation Army. Perhaps you could elaborate just a little bit on that major I'd be very happy to first of all may I say as the director of Women's Correctional Services This means that I visit the prisons and the jails in the area and interview women prisoners and do what I can and trying to help them I also may go to court on their behalf the Salvation Army correctional viewer has been working with pretty delinquent girls and women prisoners in X. prisoners since February one thousand nine hundred three and this was before the employment of court profession officers was known and at this early date Mrs Major Faris was already appointed as the Salvation Army probation officer for the women in New York City and so you see I have a rich heritage to follow but I spend more time in jail sometimes than some of the women although they let me out at night for good behavior that's very good and level that you're out to be with us is this day now let's see you I think you have you with the new center which is called the halfway house I understand I'm not with the new center but I help plan and work on that project the new center is opening and it's located two thirty three East seventeenth Street it's a halfway house residential program for twenty five female narcotic attics they will have multiple program here of psychiatric care case where there will be vocational training some education and in order to help them rehabilitate themselves find their way back to normal society and when will that open approximately the fifteenth of February it will open they now are accepting folks on outpatient basis and that brings me to a question or a practical question suppose that how do you reach the drug addict do they come to you or do you have means of getting to them while many of them come to. Us through a friend or they walk in from off the street or they may be referred from an agency but very many of them I find in the prisons as I go to the state prison and spend two days interviewing people who need assistance they're referred to me by parole officers or by correctional officers the women's house of detention I go when we glee and there again this is for casework interviewing and they are referred to me they're well how can anyone get help any addict Suppose someone is listening now and I wanted to get help how would they go about it they could call for an appointment in our telephone number is two four three eight seven hundred sixty engine for all seven or four or eight and make an appointment and we would be very happy to see them and from there we would work out plans we would ask them to come in for an interview and it's a caseworker interview and then we try and plan together what we think is the best program for that person I'm going to repeat that number again just in case someone might want to use that maybe if they have someone listening in might have a friend know someone who needs the use of it it's two four three eight seven hundred extension four seven or four wait. Two four three eight seven hundred extension four seven or four or eight. I was interested to note here that you sit in as an invited guest on the parole board of the state prisons for women. And that you are the only outside person allowed to do that. Yes it's quite a privilege and I'm there as a friend to the girl the parole officers in the commissioner represent corrections the Salvation Army representative is a friend to the girl now very often in the middle of a girl making her plea for parole the commissioner may ask if I can help her or it may be before the girl comes in he will ask what we can do for her and so the girls feel better when they see the Salvation Army officer there and certainly it is a real privilege to do it when our Are you able to extend aid after the parole is affected and yes I also I accept girls on parole and we provide lodging and meals for them carfare and lunch money until their first pay we help them with clothing if their job falls through and every parolee must have a job and being released if their job falls through then we refer them to our Salvation Army employment bureau or sometimes I have a few friends who will hire some of them and we get the job direct if a woman wants to set up her home again and we have known that it has been a family that has been in tact before she was arrested and she may need some pieces of furniture we try to provide this as well we also refer them to community agencies such as clinics and so forth which they may need. I don't also hear that there is another program the Manhattan sort of talk or outreach program and what did you say the what is that called for short it's cop cop and could you tell us what that is yes the Manhattan C.. Little Corps has been working in the streets with addicts for more than two years this meant that an army officer walked the streets and invited addicts into their Salvation Army building and tried to help them by referral to the various programs and by counseling and then this past May one thousand nine hundred sixty eight a storefront drop in center for drug addicts was opened and it's located on the corner of Lexington Avenue and East on a twenty first Street and the heart of East Harlem star cardigan slave meant the center is directed by a rehabilitated drug addict and this drop in center provides counseling. And referral to available programs in the city for detoxification rehabilitation employment Legal Aid welfare group sessions and spiritual guidance and this work has gained both the interest in the respective neighborhood people. Now is that it is functioning at this time yes it is it was open last May. I like to get back just for a moment to the halfway house which you mentioned the new center for four addicts I think you said it's going to house twenty five women addicts and I guess you are certainly aware of the I want to say problems but the complaints that many communities have made about having rehabilitation centers around neighborhoods. What would you have to say as a comment to that but I think part of the problem of some of the failure of some of the programs has been that they have been so isolated if we're going to help these people we have to help them in the area where they're going to live. And we have to be able to start to accept them in society and I don't misunderstand me I think Lexington hospital did a fine job but those people returned to the same neighborhood in the same problems and they hadn't received any help on how to live in that area and I think we're going to have to remember that this could happen in our own family and if it was our own I'm sure we wouldn't want to isolate them somewhere on the for the stand of the earth but we would want to be able to put them in an area where they might be able to learn again how to live another word part of the rehabilitation process is to integrate them back into society as normally as possible. Well we'll talk more with you Major Davis and now our third guest is waiting impatiently to have his say Captain Brian Figaro on who is the director of the Salvation Army coffee house in Greenwich Village and that sounds like a very interesting job to have Captain figure or could you tell us just a little bit about what you do as the director of the Salvation Army coffee house in Greenwich Village. Coffee House is a multi faced program and of course we do work with. Runaway young people come from all parts of the country and being located in Greenwich Village we are in the heart almost of drug infested area where Alice T. and marijuana and many of the new psychedelic drugs are. Available for young people who are interesting interested in getting into the drug scene so that many of the young people who do come into our program are experimenting or are already. Drug oriented as far as these new drugs are concerned and these are some of the type some of the young people who work with. Now you don't actually do anything to rehabilitate the drug addict as I understand it but but your function is to try to connect them with their home again is that right that's partially correct and I. Have to say that in what we refer to the young people who are using drugs this might not necessarily. Include young people who are running away much generally young young people who are minors don't get into the drug scene but the young people who are dropouts from society maybe seventeen eighteen years of age and up who are living in the village. These are the young people who we are concerned about who are involved. Strictly with drugs and. Although we do not help them we cannot help them at our own level in the village we do use the services of the Salvation Army such as major Davis and the Brigadier and. Some of the other agencies in New York City such as Odyssey House or encounter who are equipped to help these young people. In written and resident program over a long. Term period a period of time. So if the young person is an addict then not only do you connect them with their family to try to get them to return but they also must have the rehabilitation services is that correct that is correct because I mean you couldn't return them home as an addict well. I were I think refusing even that we don't we turn drug addicts home those are young people the young people who are returned home are generally minors and they are not. Generally having to deal with the drug program twelve and thirteen year old young people come to us who run away from home we try to get them reach them rescue them before they get into the drug situation scene and then we return them home so most of the young people who we deal with have left home are not planning to go home either working or have worked but are just dropouts and now we try to not only get them this in resident help but I also try to get them jobs and help them straighten out so they can function on their own and I you work almost exclusively with the with the young people being a director of the coffee house any particular traits you might notice about the types of the young people that run away from home or become addicts that you could talk about. I would have to say that the majority of young people who we have encountered in the village come from middle class and upper middle class homes young people who are. In one way or another attempting to reject middle class standards and this is easily done by the getting number one getting and leaving home at a fourteen or fifteen year old or sixteen year old and coming to the village or. Growing their hair long. Becoming part of the so-called hippie movement and a course getting into the drug Scituate scene. I would have to say too that. The. Child who gets involved with. The drug drug scene in Greenwich Village. Majority of times if they're using drugs over a long period of time it can become a very tragic. Thing for them not only physically but mentally we have had to to ations where we've had three or four young people. Who have used. Certain drugs such as speed and I'm not sure of the medical term for that but it is referred to speed in the village whose minds have been completely shattered and who are in state hospitals now as a result of using this abusing this drug to kill a drug is that one of the L.S.D. type drugs I think so yes it is and of course as I say when I and person does come to us who is on a drug or is using who is on speed or has taken several tabs of Alice day. We do not we let them into the shop and we sit with them or some of our own young people talk to them we try not we try not to let them out into the street because we know of incidents where young people have killed themselves. While on the struggle. Is this the main type of drug that is being used now by young people that is all I have to say that speed is is being used in acid as another drug which is as high as there's a high rate of this use in the village and of course marijuana is common not only in the village but everywhere but what is acid again I don't know what the medical term is for that but I do know that it's it is something like speed in that it if it it can be taken in the arm shot in the arm or can be taken in a powder powdered form or a pill form and what it does is it. Activates the person's body where they have no desire to sleep takes away their desire to eat and they're constantly. Feeling good it's a very high to me yeah that's the word felony and I'm a major Davis would probably be more familiar but I do know how it I all I know is what I say and I know that it does have a very strange reaction and you can tell if a child is using it by their eyes number one they're dilated and of course I've had incidents were young man a young boy has called me two or three in the morning at my apartment said Come on over to my apartment because I shot speed I've taken acid and it's had such an effect on the person that he would this because I was prone to cut himself and I came to the point where he did slices rest and we had to take him to the hospital because the drug had terrible effect on his mind is thinking it was you had incidents where young people jumped out of windows as we know who killed themselves from taking L.S.D. imagine they could fly you know you imagine they do things that were really humanly impossible to do so then it's a very serious problem and young people who are not familiar with this drug or these drugs don't really know what they're getting into what do you think is the best way to handle the problem now of course all of us voluntary rehabilitation part of it is there anything else that can be done I'd like to get the point of each of you on this and while I'm talking to you captain a figure on what is your idea on that. What I mean do you think that we should best focus our attention on rehabilitation or on prevention and if so how can we do this. I think we need to focus our attention on both. I think first of all I think perhaps schools are a parent should begin at home I think as far as children are concerned I'm not speaking of adults now I'm speaking of children where young people should be oriented as far as the dangers of drugs and I know there are pamphlets which are put out on the different drugs but oftentimes. It's become so hush the word marijuana relish day that young people out of curiosity will expose themselves to it and if they could see the the dangers that are involved in using it this might help to curb. Some of the problems which other facing of course there has been some thought I guess and as far as the legalization of certain drugs and again we as an organization take a definite stand on this who we are definitely opposed to use of any kind of drugs. Such as L.S.D. marijuana and heroin and these would be that you mentioned earlier and I want to go off of the question you're on right now that you're answering before I come back to it for a moment and you mention that most of the young people that you deal with are from middle class families or somewhere in that level so there's no economic problem what do you think the reasons are for these young people doing this. I would have to say that. There's there is a hand there's a communication problem number one. The many of these young people have everything they could ever want materially I say middle class I I speak of young people who come from homes where parents are making twenty thousand dollars or more even a child children of millionaires that we know who are running away from this and trying to define themselves and. They've got everything for many of them it's a curiosity and he said that they're curious they will they've heard about and they want to try it and many of these young people to have emotional problems where they really need professional help and parents seem to think that this isn't the problem they think that they can be solved at home and. Oftentimes these children are trying to say mom and dad you know wake up I need you you know pay attention to me I'm your son I'm your child you know show me a little interest and so they don't get it at home they would try to escape by either running away as a minor or getting involved in the drug situ. The thing about this that's terrible is that it becomes a tragic thing where lives could have been saved had parents thought there last May I just add a thought that I had a girl say to me once my parents didn't care enough to tell me no to stop taking it I think there's been a breakdown of the moral standards at home and of old fashioned discipline and we need to go back to it respect for authority and some youngsters feel their parents do not care enough to say stop doing it. Well we have three reasons that have been pointed out between you. Major Davis and Captain Figaro on Curiosity one you mentioned lack of communication and lowering of the moral standards are certainly three very good reasons before we continue we'll pause and just remind our listeners those of you who may have tuned in late this is one of a series of programs being presented by your city station on the problem of drug addiction and today we're talking with members of the Salvation Army about their narcotic treatment facilities and their Correctional Service sections for women we have with us today Brigadier Dorothy Berry a narcotics consultant Major Mary Davis director of Women's Correctional bureau and Captain Brian thinker or the director of the Salvation Army coffeehouse in Greenwich Village I posed a question to Captain figure or. As to what. Was the well why should we focused let me get my question back again why should we focus our attention on rehabilitation or on prevention he's given us his ideas and now I'd like to ask Brigadier Dorothy Berry what her ideas are on this and may I mention again that Brigadier Berry has been involved in narcotics. Rehabilitation probably longer than or at least as long as anyone in in this area or any other area she's been with the Salvation Army for forty five years and was involved in rehabilitating addicts long before it became the official program of states and municipalities What is your idea on this is a very good a very well it's the same as captains I would go both rehabilitation and other things that are associated with it. And I can say you said inject a little humor sometimes. And just the power is always good because in our rehabilitation program as Major is mentioned there is the court work and you know as you know in order to rehabilitate a person this is an important factor and another important factor of the family but in the court Monday I came down on the interest of an addict and it was late in the day and there were some people to be sentenced because they didn't kick the bucket over the weekend this is a Monday court and now it's going to kick the bucket of what what is that well I mean let down all. You want to clarify the term because it I don't know what it means I'm sure many of our listeners don't why does this mean Larry listen to all the standard Yeah they are guys they got on a binge had gone on a bench you get Yeah or you can put it that way fine fine and then the judge. And I see the Salvation Army is in court maybe they would help you keep this alive rich woman not too young and who had been misbehaving over the weekend and she'd been out of there so long I guess the judge didn't know what next to do for her so he said I'll call the Salvation Army up maybe they can help you and I came up and he said Well wouldn't you like them to help you and she said. No and I was surprised because it meant that she would walk out with me and you know he wouldn't put her through the court process so he said Well I certainly didn't expect you to say no don't you know that nobody says no one situation like this so I said Roman I take her side and talk to her after all it came to a cold and then we kind of shied and she was very unfriendly and I said you don't have to tell me if you don't want to but when you tell me why you said no you see if you tell me I can see why you would and she said well and she saw it and she was a little dirty woman you know and finally she looked up to me and she said I don't want to wear one of them funny hats. This is my job for the day. That rehabilitation is really a very necessary thing as as is the other. Oh all right now if we're going to do both you've been telling us how you work in rehabilitation how would you go about preventing addiction Well there are many people who ask first speeches in that church is a grand jury women name it and you have it and that's one way then we do a thriving business on pamphlets from people who write to us and then this way we get and then with perhaps a parent of course we get a lot of these letters from students that have to be took narcotics for their subjects this is satisfying because it used to be in the place that you don't let children you know was there learn to do some so do it but now the schools are putting in that subject in more than school. And they used to so that would be another way of introducing them through that issue and through. The. Templates. And in general through an educational program preferably in the schools Yes well anywhere anywhere you can reach anybody she's probably Chanelle me preaches that way if I think she needs something I go right over and preached more about it now where we have to do this with the people of course with the parents we just can't go and say to them that. Your daughter or your son is so and so because they don't want to believe it to like it to a bad point and then they come I might say that the first call I had to do telephone therapy is what I call it because the first call I had years ago from a mother that her son who was an addict it was pitiful she couldn't talk to her husband embarrassed him and she couldn't talk to her neighbors they think that radio gone her son took good as using that if she didn't want to have her family know about it and so then the night before I had spoken in a high school in the Bronx and she was in the audience and she thought low she'll call me by woman talk to me by the clock two hours but I have to do in my therapy was say aha yeah. And she did the rest and that's was years and years ago and I talked to her as late as last week one day and the sun was and things and I wouldn't call Mr Spence. Well you were a success with the family though yes we had a family group and connection where then they and that was fabulous she was a best friend of rehabilitation in that time which was years ago and I would like to see in the future that the parents who are asking crying for help are blind to this is the first day I found out he's on drugs she's on drugs that those parents could be focused and programs not to professional but. Helpful and understanding and they help each other Rick by saying the same thing happened to my girl you know and then they talk about over in their parents' group and I think this would be an excellent way to put pressure. And you know Brigadier Barry major Davis brought up a point which reminds me something that I wanted to mention and get your ideas on it both of you you mention about the breaking down of the moral tone and something about the parents saying. I'm not being able to say no if you remember that and in connection with that when when when trying to help a drug addict rehabilitate himself because in the end he must do that for himself I would think. Certainly part of the ribbon attention process is not to try to make him feel guilty or to as you said before preach at him but isn't there. A way he in dealing with the addict or anyone else to to let him know that there is a certain amount of responsibility. On the part of the individual it seems to me that so many of the programs that that are in effect seem to ignore this and actually I have read articles by former addicts who indicate that they resent this. Yes they do and I think that we have to realize that addicts have to be taught a new set of values a way to live it's like training a child. And you take them step by step you say to them look you're improving we expect this from you if you want the privileges of being an adult then you must be responsible and it's reality therapy as they call it and we believe this if you want to be treated as an adult then you must act as an adult these are some of the things that are required of you very often we've had to tell the girl that you get up at seven o'clock you arrive on time for a job you look presentable for that job but these are some of the beginning things that you teach them it's a whole new set of values for them to live by we not only teach them how to work but we have to teach them how to play well together too so that they know something of the finer things of life and can enjoy a little bit part of their problem has been that they have had no real satisfaction in life there has not been anything that has been a good foundation or a satisfying experience either in their home or whatever they've done not even the drug really is a satisfying experience they feel their complete failure even with the drug Yes even with the drug because they hate what they're doing actually they like what the drug does but when they realize what they have to do to get it they hate this and they know how guilty they are their guilt ridden and especially women their self image is gone and they no longer even care how they look or where they stay at night. And they're a little different than men they're more difficult in the sense to work with because a woman self-image is completely destroyed when she can sink that low. Then then you find that have you dealt with men addicts also as well as the women some men some men what are the differences would you note and there the female and male drug addict Well for example if if a female is having a cup of coffee she'll leave that dirty cups it a man will pick it up and clean it put it away a female doesn't care where she stays that night a man is concerned about where he's going to stay and he will try and get. Self cleaned up a little bit if he has to meet someone some of the girls when I first meet them have never tried to clean themselves up but it's interesting to see that as they improve as far as the drug is concerned they begin to try to physically fix themselves up and a girl may come the first time without her clothes being pressed and her hair a mess and she looks like a mess and the next time the skirt is pressed in her hair is brushed and so forth and she's trying to get herself straightened out a little bit These are two of the the main differences I've noticed in them. Which is easier to rebel to tell you are male or female addict but they tell me male although I have not had that experience and I quote from Mr Edward Boyle in Los Angeles California who works with the Salvation Army and has five halfway houses are in operation there and his program has been going for approximately five years and he works with men first and now he works with both men and women and he says that men are the easiest to work with. To get back to the question that we were discussing before where should the emphasis be on rehabilitation or prevention could you give us some of your ideas on on that yes but may I first tell you what happened to me right after I came on this job and I think it may explain a point I happened to be sitting between two professional people at a dinner meeting and of course I'm in Salvation Army uniform so one of them turned and said Major what do you do for the Salvation Army and with tongue in cheek I said prisoners parolees and addicts and they said come again and I repeated those three words and the doctor said You're too nice for that and very quickly I looked him straight in the eye and I said too nice for people doctor and he said I'm sorry I think we have to make people realize that addicts are individuals that they are people they're not some wild animal and I think this is part of the rehabilitation program that they can be brought into a life that can be a useful life and we have to get our people in the communities to realize this I believe the rehabilitation is very important but we cannot rehabilitate people unless they're going to be accepted after. Of course and I also believe that prevention and education is a very important part if we can it's much easier if we can stop them before they get on the drugs than to get them ten or fifteen years later after they have been on it that long when I do you have any ideas in addition to the ones we've discussed for prevention but I know that the New York State narcotic Control Commission has recently developed some new films which are going to be used in the educational system I have seen some of them I also know that they're forming Committee which will help orientate the neighborhoods because I happen to be a member of this committee and it's an education committee to get them to accept rehabilitated attics the film three was just shown last week in one of the theaters in New York. And I have seen it it's excellent. Is that continued to be shown or was that only a one time showing I think it was only a one time showing but I'm sure that it will be shown in various neighborhood theaters. Now I was talking with Brigadier Barry or rather a captain Figaro about the personality of the young people with which he deals mostly in terms of what types of personality did he come across most often. In the drug addiction cases and I'd like to ask now Brigadier Barry about that she's had such a long range of experience and her range of experience would include certainly more than the young people the teenagers and such have you noticed any predominant types of personality as a drug addict Well I don't know if it's a personality type but many many drug addicts a prostitute. Well I wasn't speaking so much of that of course that I I'm sure is true but I meant in general. A person out of a pattern a type of person in terms of their behavior our problem that they might have other than addiction role one of the things we find is that an addict who is clean and comes to C.S. has been to the hospital often and had a major. Operation of one sort or another and the doctors explain this is a fact that while he's on drugs he doesn't feel that there's any difficulty within our body and you and I have to feel things we've probably got a dog and say What is it and so that when she comes off drugs is all this time has elapsed and by divers wrong in size eyes on the head and got worse and. He she comes to us with this even having just been over the surgery or to tell us that she's going to hospital it's not any one particular disease. Just any Sometimes major that. Come to you and me but they come to them too late. How do you deal with this personality and in order to compensate for that or to correct it well I think first of all we must get the trust of that person and if you're called in my square of this means they trust you they call me and I square they trust me but we have to get make her feel that we are interested enough to help her and addicts are very shrewd people they sized people up and they know a phony immediately and so you have to make sure that whatever you're saying to her is absolutely true. And if you can convince her that you're sincere in wanting to help this is the beginning because she feels here's one person that I can trust one person I can turn to who will listen to me. Maybe we can't do NOT have all the answers but at least if she can trust us then she will come to us with their problems and this is the beginning of our relationship. And very often they say why will you do this for me and my stock reply is. The Salvation Army believes people should have a second chance then when I tell them what we will do in helping them they say but what's it going to cost be because nobody has done anything for these people without it costing them something and I say nothing except what you're going to be able to do for yourself. And with this I say I don't even need your friendship. And of course this is very different and they look at me and they say Boy you really put it on the line don't you when I say I there's no other way I can deal with you. I must tell you the truth and with the kind of expressive face I have I couldn't do anything else and. Now we have all the trouble you know and. It's been said that. Our affluent society and a certain respect might be responsible for the great increase in drug addiction. What do you think about that Major Davis I think some of it is responsible for it because they have been given money nobody has checked them on hours they've had cars they've been able to do so many things because of having the money I also believe that a lot of this started right after World War two when many fellows were returning from overseas with wounds and they had received morphine and I think that some of this is an outcome of that well this was a question that I posed before that sometimes drug addiction does start from trying to relieve an actual physical pain or they say seventy five percent of the female narcotic addict started as medical Addicks they needed the morphine or something for pain and they continued. What do you think of the idea that was explored in England I don't know whether they still do that or not and actually allowing centers to prescribe drugs for the addict until they can take them off of some sort of program of that nature in England well this is really a crutch isn't it. I know I was a little yes I think it's I think it's a crutch and of course I believe in total abstinence I believe that the people should be physically detoxified This means I go into a hospital and they're taken off the drugs by medication and supervision of a doctor and then from there we work with their problems a drug addiction in itself is not the problem drug addiction is a result of some emotional problems and so we if we take them off the drugs or we supply them with the drug we're only supplying a crutch we need to actually work for the individual the Salvation Army believes in working with the whole men. And if a man only needs a cup of coffee. This may not solve the problem he may have many other things and so we believe if a girl is detoxified off the drug then she has emotional problems that should be dealt with and we try and do this by talking to her about the problem getting her to talk about the problem and maybe she's never sat down and faced it before and sometimes we cannot change the emotional problem but we may be able to get her to face up to it and realize that this is a thing that has caused it and with her knowing what it is then she is better able to work out her life ahead and do it more successfully if you know what upsets you you try and keep away from that and sometimes this is the answer and yet the thought plays the captain a vigorous mention something which I thought was I was hoping would not bypass or because I think it was the toll man. I suppose that one major day was I'm barely speaking of or speak of drug rehabilitation or rehabilitation of people who are drug addicts who are involved for the Salvation Army is concerned with the total person took and many professionals of course. Though they will respect the Salvation Army's social emphasis are not in total agreement or sympathetic toward our religious or approach and this by by no means we should be mean or even though it may be understood by most people who never again is Asian I would like to just say this that I have found in our program with working with young people who are using drugs that. Were it not for our. Christian emphasis the fact that we are concerned not because we're just moral individuals but because. There's something inside of us which drives to be concerned these young people might not respond and oftentimes I believe that. Christ you know can be the answer for many of these kids problems or. Our religious approach is sitting on saying. It isn't enough just to. To get you off the drug or it isn't enough just to feed you but there's something deeper there till and I will I'd like to make that understood because I would be doing this and I'm sure Major Davis or Berger would be doing our program for an hour for this our Christian emphasis which we feel and took over many professional services that we know of and I know it may not emphasize this but I think there's of there's a third to mentioned to man's life and that's that religious dimension in connection with that I conduct chapel services monthly at the women's house of detention and I also conduct chapel services at Westfield where they're not quite on the monthly basis but we do conduct chapel services with the girls who were not. Pleased to know our files with their letters and girls and women whom we didn't preach so much so as they recognized what we stood for and after not hearing from them a long time they write to us as one little girl I'm thinking of that lives in Florida now that we helped as a juvenile delinquent and she is married and has two sons one of them two boys one of them's in an institution but the other one is with her and she got a Salvation Army calls converted not in the Salvation Army but because of the Salvation Army contact and then she came to New York City from Florida to Golden Salvation Army and give what we say her testimony on this was all grown out of a new relationship a number of years and there are other letters another room take time to tell the stories but it is interesting to know that they can recognise it and some inquire about it. Brigadier Barry while we're on the subject I just want to say this we've been discussing addicts and I know that you all feel this way certainly I do that and our discussion we have in no way been discussing from a feeling of. Moral superiority but simply discussing problems that fellow human beings have I have felt this discussion that way as I have spoken with each of you and I just wanted to clarify that for the audience especially if there are any addicts who may be listening. I wish that we could have had an addict in our discussion that is the only. Reservation I have as we come to the conclusion of this very interesting and informative discussion and I want to remind our listeners that this special program has been another of your city stations weeklong series on narcotics and narcotics addiction today we had members of the Salvation Army to discuss their method in the fight against drug addiction and with us Brigadier Dorothy Berry narcotics consultant Major Mary Davis director of the women's correctional bureau and Captain Brian figure or director of the Salvation Army coffee house of Greenwich Village we welcome your comments which should be addressed to drug broadcast W N Y C New York one triple zero seven and this has been a public affairs presentation of your city station. You have been listening to a rebroadcast of the award winning series narcotics in our Kartik addiction these rebroadcasts will be heard at the same time each weekday afternoon be with us tomorrow for the next edition.