Sen. Andy Kim on Nominees, Executive Orders, and More

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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Later in the show for this Friday, we'll have two episodes of our WNYC centennial series, 100 Years of 100 Things, and they're both about magazines. We'll do 100 Years of The New Yorker, now celebrating its own centennial, and around 11:30 ahead of the Grammy Awards this weekend, we'll do 100 Years of the Billboard music charts. For that one, we'll play Name That Tune and give away Brian Lehrer Show tote bags, our pro-democracy tote.

We'll invite you to call in and say what the biggest hit song from your high school years was from whenever you went to high school, at least as you remember it. We'll have some fun today with 100 years of The New Yorker and the Billboard music charts, but we'll start on the news. Here is maybe the moment of the biggest concern for RFK Jr. From the two days of confirmation hearings he just sat through to be Health and Human Services secretary. This is from yesterday's hearing in the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. The speaker is Republican Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, who is also a physician.

Senator Bill Cassidy: Now, my responsibility is to learn, try and determine if you can be trusted to support the best public health, a worthy movement called MAHA to improve the health of Americans or to undermine it, always asking for more evidence and never accepting the evidence that is there. That is why I've been struggling with your nomination. There are issues. Man, ultra-processed food, obesity, we are simpatico. We're completely aligned. As someone who has discussed immunizations with thousands of people, I understand that mothers want reassurance that the vaccine their child is receiving is necessary, safe, and effective.

We agree on that point, the two of us, but we've approached it differently. I think I can say that I've approached it using the preponderance of evidence to reassure, and you have approached using selected evidence to cast doubt.

Brian Lehrer: Republican Senator Bill Cassidy with RFK Jr. yesterday in the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee hearing. With us now is another member of that committee who also got to question RFK. That's not the only thing we'll talk about with him because our guest is New Jersey's brand new USSenator Andy Kim, a Democrat who had been in the House of Representatives the last six years and got elected to the Senate in November after Senator Bob Menendez faced corruption charges and withdrew. Coincidentally, some of you have heard Menendez was sentenced this week to 11 years in prison. Senator Kim, congratulations on joining the Senate. We really appreciate that you're joining us again. Welcome back to WNYC.

Senator Andy Kim: Thanks so much for having me back on the show.

Brian Lehrer: To let people just learning about you know a little more, I see that your father was a cancer and Alzheimer's disease research scientist and that he had polio as a kid. Is that background part of why you wanted to join the health committee?

Senator Andy Kim: Yes, it is. I grew up watching my father with that disability that plagued him his whole life, having had polio as a baby. My mother was a nurse her whole career serving the hospital systems of New Jersey. I ended up disappointing my parents by not becoming a doctor, but healthcare was always important. Now, I'm a father of a seven-year-old and a nine-year-old. I got two little boys that I worry about, just their health. Now my parents are aging and my father in particular is in decline.

I'm part of that sandwich generation that's feeling squeezed with caring for my little ones, but also caring for for the elderly and the growing needs. Frankly, the costs are outrageous. These are real challenges that my family is going through and I know so many other American families are going through.

Brian Lehrer: I apologize to your mother for having missed her background. I shouted out your father's research scientist background in the medical field, but I didn't know your mother was a nurse. I always want to give both parents their props, especially because women get overlooked so much. There you go to both your parents. You just mentioned the cost. That's what you singled out. Do you have ideas for how to improve healthcare affordability in the United States that you want to bring to the Senate?

Senator Andy Kim: That's certainly at the top of the list of what I'm trying to address. As I mentioned, my father had a bad accident last year. He's also having a decline on both cognitive and physical. I remember when we were looking for a place that might be able to handle some of his needs, in New Jersey, we're talking about places that are like assisted living places that are costing $10,000 or more a month. The only other option that we could really see is basically setting my father on a path towards bankruptcy so that he could be eligible for Medicaid.

How in the richest, most powerful country in the world are those the options that people are facing? Yes, I am also on the Committee on Aging talking about challenges facing the elderly and working to try to see if there are ways in which we can get some long-term care support into Medicare, not just Medicaid, and also seeing if we can have greater support for caretakers, both family caretakers, as well as going outside and paying and making sure that we have the resources that we need to be able to lift that up.

Those are some plans and efforts I'm trying to engage, but I'm also just listening to other families, trying to assess what others are going through, understanding that it's not one size fits all. Those are things that I hope to really prioritize in my time in the US Senate.

Brian Lehrer: We'll come back to your Health Committee questioning of RFK Jr. and play a clip of you and him. To continue on your bio and how it's relevant to policy, I see that when you were in the House, you were on both the Armed Services and Foreign Affairs committees after spending decades with USAID, the Agency for International Development, including for the Pentagon, for the State Department, for the National Security Council, and in Afghanistan, advising our commanders there, General Allen and General Petraeus.

Can you talk a little bit about your work with USAID where many career staffers have just been fired and what kind of a lens that has given you on US foreign policy? Because honestly, I think a lot of Americans have never heard of USAID, or they've heard the initials casually. They don't know what the agency does. Suddenly, it's in the news and some people are inflamed because of these firings. What was your experience there and what kind of a lens on foreign policy did that give you?

Senator Andy Kim: Sure. I did spend the bulk of my career at the Department of State, but I got my very first start at USAID, as you mentioned. That was actually during the Bush administration. I think that's what's important to start out with, which is that we have career public servants, people who work under Republicans and Democrats. I worked under both Bush and Obama. We serve a country, not a party. Our oath is to the Constitution. It's not a loyalty test to a president. What we're trying to do is follow through on trying to strengthen American global leadership.

USAID is the entity that does a lot of humanitarian assistance, and that's important. I think people think of it just as a method of charity. That's why people are sometimes the first to jump on USAID saying, "Why are we giving resources to other countries when we need help back here at home?" It's not zero-sum. The aid, yes, I do think it's important for us to try to help and assist other nations. We are the richest, most powerful country in the world and our support to other nations helps us, helps us build up our leadership, helps us try to stabilize different regions for us to be able to have greater trade access, financial and economic ties to try to reduce the potential for military engagement or other actions that are so much more expensive and destabilizing.

I just want to say that I think right now when we see this pause on all foreign humanitarian assistance, foreign aid, that is something that's making us weaker. That is something that's hurting our ability to engage internationally. Other nations, I talked to ambassadors this week and others, they are just in shock and they honestly are starting to question whether or not the United States is going to continue to lead or wants to continue to lead. When we see this idea of America First foreign policy basically coming across as America Only like that we don't care about our allies and our partners anymore and that's going to just isolate us.

That's just going to make us weaker, a greater target. It's going to embolden authoritarian leaders like Putin and President Xi who are trying to use this moment right now to accumulate greater power. USAID plays a role. It is a tool in the toolbox of our foreign policy.

Brian Lehrer: I'll ask you a follow-up question about that in a minute. Listeners, I want to invite you in. I should have done this at the top of the segment. This is in part a Call Your Senator segment and we can take some questions, especially from New Jersey listeners for the new senator from Jersey Andy Kim, about his questioning in the RFK hearing yesterday or anything else. 212-433-WNYC 212-433-9692, call or text for Senator Andy Kim. 212-433-9692. On what you were just saying, the new administration says they want to make sure that all foreign aid is being distributed in the interest of the United States.

They would say that doesn't mean that they're going to cut off foreign aid, though some people want them to. If it's an America-first policy and our foreign aid serves to enhance American influence around the world and maybe compete with China's influence around the world as they're getting involved with so many countries, then presumably the Trump administration will land on continuing foreign aid in those cases, but they have an obligation, because of what they were elected to do, to take a fresh look at everything. Is that fair?

Senator Andy Kim: No. The way in which they're trying to do it isn't about trying to take a fresh look. This is something in the broader context. I've been on the Foreign Affairs Committee. I've seen how the Republicans on that committee have basically said that they want to get rid of all of USAID. They've been trying to slash the budget. They are trying to undermine it. They have talked not just about, "Is that the right amount of aid?", but literally cutting it all off. This is coming from a disingenuous place. In particular, if you want to look at the effectiveness and the efficiency, you don't have to shut it all off.

We're talking about shutting off food assistance to Sudan where millions are at threat of starvation and other challenges that are out there. What we see right now with Ukraine and just the way in which the Trump administration and the president directly has talked about it in the past of just saying, "Why is America giving to this situation here? That's not in our interest." We see this as part of that broader agenda. This is not about trying to assess and look at each individual case. If that was their motivation, there are ways to do that without cutting everything off simultaneously and causing such damage.

I can't tell you the number of people at USAID who have been reaching out to me directly because they are saying how a pause like this will just irreparably damage their programs. Even if this is something that does get approved and moves forward, it's too late at that point. This is not something you can just stop on a dime.

Brian Lehrer: To the staff changes, the number I've seen is about 60 people from USAID fired, including people who've been there a long time. Any new administration would argue, I think, that they have a right to have people who are enthusiastic about their agenda. Is that such a bad or abnormal thing that they're doing in that respect, in your view?

Senator Andy Kim: Every president has the ability to have presidential appointments, senior positions all throughout. There are about 4,000 of them. Yes, that is possible. When it comes to the career staff, again, these are people who served under both Republicans and Democrats. These are what I call the steady hand at the wheel that help our country govern despite the pendulum swings of partisanship, to go after them. There's one thing to say, "Hey, look, we're going to try to see if there's a different angle that you can work on these different issues."

What is actually happening is this loyalty purge that is where they're sending the signals, the letters that go out about those that they dismissed at USAID, it was questioning their loyalty. We hear reports about the Trump administration asking staff if they voted for Trump, trying to assess their political affiliation. That is wrong. That is illegal. It goes back to something that the President said during the campaign, which I just keep thinking about this past week, which is how he talked about the enemy from within. You can see this as part of that plan.

He is a deeply paranoid man and somebody who is just looking to turn the executive branch basically into a political entity. That is just not what our government should be like. Our government should be a place where we can have career public servants that don't have to pass some loyalty test when it comes to partisanship. They're there to get the work done, serve the Constitution. That is what the President is trying to undermine. He wants them to serve him directly, no matter what, and have unquestioning loyalty and fealty to him.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Let's talk about the RFK Jr. hearing a little bit, then we'll take some listener calls. I played that clip of Senator Cassidy, an MD And a Republican from Louisiana who seemed concerned that RFK plays a game of planting public doubts about science that's been well established. What did you think about that clip we played and the assertion by Senator Cassidy? I'll ask you that after we play a clip of you questioning Kennedy, where he may be doing exactly what Cassidy was concerned about. You're asking him here about the potential for vaccines for bird flu.

Senator Andy Kim: You said earlier in response on avian flu, you would continue the investments, that you would support vaccine development. I just want to clarify, does that mean you support investments in mRNA vaccine research and development?

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.: I'm not going to pick a vaccine right now. I need to look at all the data. I need to look at the safety data and efficacy data, but I'm going to continue research on every kind of vaccine.

Brian Lehrer: Would you talk about that exchange, Senator Kim, and why you brought up MRNA vaccine technology, specifically the technology in our COVID vaccines?

Senator Andy Kim: Because he should have been able to say a very simple yes. mRNA technology is so important for us to be able to quickly respond to pandemics. It's why we were able to so quickly develop a vaccine and scale it to the level that we did in a societal way. His questioning of that technology, the questioning that he's had of science, whether that's about vaccines or any number of other things. I'm glad you played that clip about Senator Cassidy again, a Republican, a former doctor, somebody who-- I admired his lines of questioning and willing to say, "Hey, look, this isn't about Democrat or Republican. This is about our health." When I heard that Mr. Kennedy had said in the past that he believes it's highly likely that Lyme disease was a military-created bioweapon-- My mom had Lyme disease. She suffered terribly from that. A lot of people in New Jersey suffer from Lyme disease or have the fear of Lyme disease. I got seven-year-old, nine-year-old kids running outside in the woods. This is the problem that we face now where he's throwing things out there that have no factual basis. Sure, there's speculation.

I asked him about 5G, about Internet Wi-Fi and he believes that Wi-Fi directly correlated to cancer definitively in his mind when research is still looking at these different issues. To have somebody who just so clearly believes something despite science often saying things otherwise, or at least saying things are inconclusive, I worry about that person being in charge of so much of our healthcare in this entire country. I hope people see the difficulty of bringing that into such a place of authority where he would literally be in charge of the National Institutes of Health, the NIH that's doing this type of research that he so often questions.

Brian Lehrer: Do you think based on these last two days that Kennedy will be confirmed by the full Senate if Senator Dr. Cassidy votes against him? I think it'll be tough. I couldn't tell from his questioning whether he was really considering a no-vote or just doing some theater of expressing concern before being loyal to his party.

Senator Andy Kim: I'm not sure what's going to happen. After what we saw with Pete Hegseth's vote when it came to the Defense Secretary position, I don't know what pressures are falling upon Republicans to fall in line. I'm sure it's tremendous. I know Mitch McConnell's raised concerns as someone who's himself suffered from polio. I know others are-- We had Senator Collins and Murkowski on that Health Care Committee as well. I'm not sure where their heads are at. Look, it's going to be tough. The Republicans have enough votes to be able to pass and confirm any nominee on their own. They don't need any Democrats and they have a couple of senator, buffer. They would basically need four to defect to be able to stop a nomination. That's going to be tough at a time when, again, President Trump is demanding total loyalty from not just people in the executive branch, but from an entirely separate branch of government that's supposed to be separate and equal, which is the legislature.

Brian Lehrer: Senator Andy Kim with us, the brand new US senator from New Jersey. I have a few callers who want to ask you about other confirmation votes. I'll take one of them to represent the group. Marlena in Barnegat Light, you're on WNYC with Senator Kim. Hi, Marlena.

Marlena: Hi, good morning. Senator Kim, your very good friends in Ocean County are curious about your recent yes votes for Marco Rubio and Kristi Noem.

Senator Andy Kim: Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Look, when it came to those votes in particular, again, the Republicans have all the votes they need for confirmation. Starting with Marco Rubio, I'm a former State Department public servant. I'm somebody that cares deeply about our foreign policy. Lots that I disagreed with him on when I talked to him about it, but I did feel like he is somebody that takes the job seriously, somebody who at least assured me he was not going to go through the witch hunt within the State Department. I'm sure they'll do some of it, but trying to hold back on some of the worst of it, but someone that I can stay in touch with, engage with, and someone that has experience in foreign policy.

While I disagreed with him on a lot of the policies, I felt like certainly if he is not the choice, the chance of someone much worse would certainly come about. But I felt like there is someone there that I can work with and engage on. When it comes to Homeland Security, I'll be honest with you. There's no issue that I get more constituent calls about than immigration. More calls about help with visas or help with work authorization or a concern about what's happening as someone is from a family with some undocumented family members. We're going through hundreds of cases right now in my office with DHS.

I think it's important for New Jersey to have somebody within the federal government delegation that can engage directly with the Department of Homeland Security and advocate on behalf of the people, demand information when necessary. I'm on the Homeland Security Committee. I'm the only senator from New Jersey on that committee. If you look at the other Democrats that voted yes on the secretary's nomination, they're also on that committee. This is a committee that works daily with DHS, not just on immigration. I also am the top Democrat, the ranking member on the Disaster Response Subcommittee. We're trying to see if there's bipartisan space to fix FEMA, help us be able to try to save lives during tough circumstances.

As I said, the Republicans had enough votes to confirm the secretary on their own. I was trying to think tactically there. If that direct channel, if that work that I can do through the committee, can help some of the families that are reaching out and are concerned about getting their paperwork through, trying to address these issues, I think that's worth a shot. I think it's worth a shot to try to address the disaster response that's out there right now. That was what was going on through my mind. I get it, some people are going to disagree with my calculations, but I hope they understand it came from a place of trying to serve the constituents of New Jersey, trying to have more tools in our toolbox in what's going to be a very difficult next four years.

Brian Lehrer: I see that on another nominee, you were going to vote yes. That was for Sean Duffy for Transportation Secretary but both you and Senator Booker flipped and decided to vote no. What happened there?

Senator Andy Kim: What happened there was the Trump administration decided that they were going to put out a executive order and a memo that would freeze federal funding back to our home states, back to Meals on Wheels programs for our seniors, back to Head Start programs for helping vulnerable youth in terms of childcare and other needs. This was something that came through just in a matter of hours and really threw the country into a lot of chaos and to have somebody-

Brian Lehrer: That order was rescinded, but what did it have to do with Transportation Secretary Nominee Sean Duffy?

Senator Andy Kim: The order was not rescinded. The memo was rescinded, but the effort to undergo and freeze funds continues to this very day and that chaos continues. Look, some of the freeze that this administration had done includes freezes on the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, freezing funds to the Gateway Tunnel Project, which is absolutely vital to New Jersey and to New York and frankly, our whole country, as it would be devastating to our economy if something were to stop rail transit throughout the East Coast. I think that that's reckless.

I think that this is something that's putting a lot of things at risk. I felt that I wanted to send a signal and vote against that nomination.

Brian Lehrer: I also saw a reporting that Duffy wants to prioritize transportation funding to places with high marriage and birth rates. That would be a novel way to decide on transportation funding if it's true. Do you know if that's real?

Senator Andy Kim: I saw those same reports. My team is reaching out to the Department of Transportation today. Again, look that's a committee that I'm on in terms of the Commerce Committee and needing to work with the Department of Transportation on a regular basis. Again, I hope to be able to engage. I hope to be able to help push that forward. I think the fact that Secretary Duffy and his family live in New Jersey is, again, a place where he and I promised we would be able to maintain communication.

He did say he would make sure that he and I can go and see the Gateway Tunnel project together. Again, I have disagreements with how the administration is operating, but if I have abilities to try to engage and at least try to work with some of them that I think are some of the more reasonable ones, I will try to do so.

Brian Lehrer: One other transportation question. Are you among the New Jersey officials hoping that President Trump uses whatever authority he may have to cancel New York City's congestion pricing toll? Do you think he'll actually do it?

Senator Andy Kim: I don't know if he's going to do it. I talked to some Republicans and they said he's certainly consistent considering it. I don't think that's the right way to do it. I think that this is something I would have preferred that New York and New Jersey try to address through. I know that's Been contentious. Look, regardless of what happens on that front, New Jersey, we should be doing a lot more when it comes to our public transit. We should be able to have more investments. That was a big part of the reason we passed the bipartisan infrastructure law, is to be able to invest in it. If we have another summer, this coming summer on NJ Transit like we did last summer, shame on us if we weren't able to try to take the aggressive steps needed to fix it. I understand some of the concerns that people raised about congestion pricing, but regardless of that, we should be aggressively investing in our public transit and understanding that that is a tool that benefits us and families no matter if congestion pricing exists or not. That's where I'd put our focus.

Brian Lehrer: Patty in Belmar, you're on WNYC with Senator Andy Kim. Hi, Patty.

Patty: Hi, Brian. Hi, Senator Kim. I'm calling on a different topic. I just wanted to thank Senator Kim for restoring a little bit of dignity the day after January 6th. I believe it was on the 7th where there were some images of Senator Kim basically cleaning up around the Capitol. With the horror of that day, it was such a relief to be someone there that loves the People's House and was showing dignity and respect for the surroundings in a very humble way. I just wanted to thank him for that.

Brian Lehrer: Senator?

Senator Andy Kim: Thank you. I appreciate that that four years later still has resonance for you. That's very kind of you to say. I hope that all of us should be able to have a baseline. Every American should be able to say, "Hey, look, regardless of our political views, we should not be attacking such a beautiful, sacred building like the Capitol." We should have reverence in the same way that we hold our hands over our heart for the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem. We're about to have the 250th anniversary of our nation in a little over a year.

I hope that we can use that as a moment to take a step back. I'm trying to push for that 250th anniversary to be a time when we can try to invest in our civics education. I'm trying to build a national service program, see if there's ways in which we can launch that on the 250th anniversary. Recognize that right now we're losing touch with this idea that we're part of something bigger than all of us. That's something that I worry about, what kind of America my kids are going to grow up in.

I appreciate you saying that because certainly after the pardons that Trump did for those that attacked the Capitol, it's been really tough. I heard directly from a number of Capitol police officers that just cannot believe what is happening right now with the level of acceptance and exaltation of political violence against the Capitol and the people that work there.

Brian Lehrer: One more, Julie in Teaneck, you're on WNYC with Senator Andy Kim. Hi, Julie.

Julie: Thank you. Good morning, Senator. I voted for you. I respect you so much. I'm really proud and grateful to have you as my senator. I'm really happy about how you're voting. My question is actually about providing hope. I'm loath to ever ask for more email, but I heard a lot from you during campaign season and now that you're actually doing the work, I don't hear from you anymore. I think that Democrats and people of conscience are desperate for hope right now with this horrendous onslaught on everything that is important.

I see you as a leader who could provide hope by letting us know what good work are you doing, even as Democrats are so limited right now. Do you see any signs of collaboration among colleagues on the Republican side of the aisle? I would love for you to keep us engaged. It's just a difficult and scary time. I don't need emails with platitudes and outrage. I have a good echo chamber. I would love to hear about the good work that's being done and especially about any long-term plans you're working on to remedy some of this damage. I'd love to hear if you see that as part of your role and what you think of that.

Senator Andy Kim: Oh, definitely.

Brian Lehrer: Julie, thank you. Senator, anything you want to say to Julie and anything you want to say to wrap up? Then we're out of time.

Senator Andy Kim: Okay, sounds good. I'll be quick. What I'll say is, yes, absolutely. We want to make sure that we're communicating. I've pulled back on some of the campaign arm side of things, which is a lot of the outreach that we were doing that way. On the official side or the Senate side, I tell people, go to kim.senate.gov. You can sign up for our newsletters. Or you can follow Senator Andy Kim on social media. Trying to make sure we're getting the word out there. We have to build up these lists from scratch on the Senate side. I was not able to bring over my list from the House.

We're we're trying to build up so please follow through those means. We're trying to communicate as much as possible trying to make sure people understand. A big reason I'm on the show as well. Thanks so much, everybody, for calling in, for listening. I certainly hope that you have a better sense of what we're trying to work on right now.

Brian Lehrer: Thanks so much for coming on the show. We look forward to talking to you regularly if you're willing while you're in the Senate. Congratulations again on your first days moving up from the House of Representatives to the United States Senate. Thanks, Senator Kim.

Senator Andy Kim: Thank you so much.

 

 

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