If you’re a fan of the James Bond films, your ears perk up whenever a new 007 is announced. Since his cinema debut in the 1960's, Bond has been played by Sean Connery, Roger Moore, George Lazenby, Timothy Dalton, Pierce Brosnan, and Daniel Craig — each actor a little different in his interpretation of the ultimate super spy. But all, so far, have been white actors. 

Among the rumored favorites to step into Bond's shoes next is Idris Elba, the black British actor who played Stringer Bell in The Wire and starred in the BBC detective series Luther. But in a recent interview, Anthony Horowitz, author of the newest Bond novel Trigger Mortis, told a reporter that he just couldn’t see Elba in the role. He said Elba was “a bit too street.”

Unsurprisingly, the internet reacted. Jamil Smith, a senior editor at the New Republic and host of Intersection, a new podcast about race, gender, and identity, explores with Kurt Andersen the history of black action heroes, the nature of the Bond character, and the subtle implications of combining them together. 

Kurt Andersen: What does the phrase “too street” suggest to you?

Jamil Smith: He has to understand that the word “street” has been a euphemism for “black” for a long time. But the point to me is that saying that he’s a little “too street” is curious considering that James Bond is a thug in a suit! You’re talking about a Scottish guy from the country who kills people for a living.

You made an interesting point in one of your tweets about the Sidney Poitier/Jim Brown paradigm.

In the ‘60’s, Sidney Poitier was the guy who portrayed respectable black men on film. He was not the one who was expected to be physical — those roles were reserved for actors like Jim Brown. The actor that Horowitz recommended for the role was Adrien Lester, and Adrien Lester, for all of his credits, is not a threatening guy in the least. He’s the Sidney Poitier in this equation.

It seems like there is a lot of momentum in the fan world for having a black Bond. Why is that?

What I think is really at the heart of it is we’re seeing people being more open to the idea of everyone looking like a hero. But there’s still a long way to go.