[00:00:00] Betty Shacke: Good evening. And welcome to What Makes New York City Run, a program presented by the League of Women Voters. The League helps through these programs to make our government more understandable and to show how citizens can take part in it. I'm Betty Shacke, a league member. And my guest for the fourth in a series of weekly programs on the Department of Social Services is Mrs. Virginia O'Neil, Director of that department's Bureau of Special Services. Thank you for joining me, Mrs. O'Neill.

[00:00:29] Mrs. Virginia O'Neil: It's a delight to be here.

[00:00:31] Betty Shacke: I know your pu-- bureau is responsible for a variety of special programs, but tonight I want to concentrate on just two, our two areas: the programs that deal with, uh, elderly people, and those that deal with "unemployables". Let's take the elderly first because I-I know what that definition means. What goes on at daycare centers for older people?

[00:00:56] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: Well, this is one of the programs, uh, about which we are proudest, because it's-- because unlike many other programs, it is one in which we as a public agency pioneered. At the present time, we have about, uh, 46 day centers throughout the five boroughs. And our program is what we refer to as a multi-service center. It is, uh-- It consists of centers to which older persons can come and can select from a variety of different programs, those that best meet their needs.

[00:01:34] Betty Shacke: And what kind of programs would these be? Sewing, uh, um, games? What?

[00:01:41] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: Uh, well, I think the common conception of day center programs for older people is, uh, around activity programs, or arts and crafts, and sewing as you refer to, or games. But this is only one minor aspect of our program. In addition to activity programs and recreational activity programs, we have health programs, we have educational, uh, programs, in which individuals, uh, can discuss, uh, current events, and more recently, and one, uh, which is attracting increased interest among the agent is, uh, a variety of community service projects.

[00:02:25] Betty Shacke: Oh, I think that's very interesting, because I know many people feel that-- uh, an older person feels like he's put on the shelf when it gets to a certain age. You mean you have programs in which they can actually help their community in some way or help each other?

[00:02:39] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: Well, not only, uh, help each other, but definitely, uh, help their community. And one of the programs that immediately, uh, comes to mind is a program where-whereas in all our centers, we're working together with other, uh, existing community agencies. We now have a program in which members of our Staten Island day centers for older persons are volunteering, and working out in, um-- oh, I can't think. Willowbrook, uh, State Hospital-

[00:03:13] Betty Shacke: Oh
.
[00:03:13] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: -uh, for mentally, uh, deficient. And they're doing a variety of, uh, services. One of them I can think of is a retired, uh, school teacher who is teaching mentally retarded children the basics of arithmetic and some children to whom this has not been able to get across before. And she does it in terms of using, uh, bags of candy-

[00:03:37] Betty Shacke: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:37] Mrs. Virginia O'Neil: -and helping them to count the candy.

[00:03:39] Betty Shacke: I can think this can be an enormously satisfying program to an older person. You mentioned a retired school teacher. She would have a pension. So, um, who-who is eligi-eligible to come to these day centers? Any older person, or is there an income limitation?

[00:03:57] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: No. Uh, this is one of the few services, and we hope we can move in the direction of making all our services available to older persons regardless of economic need. This program is available to anyone over 60 years of age, regardless of, uh, economic level. And we have people coming from all walks of life. But I think you must, uh, recognize that most older people, no matter where they are retired or wherever else, the amount of income, even on a pension basis that is available, uh, to them, is at a minimal level.

[00:04:34] Betty Shacke: Yes, I'm sure that's true. Are you able to serve all the people that come - that come, or is there a waiting list?

[00:04:41] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: Uh, we have waiting lists in many of our centers. We have many, many requests. I think we have over 50 requests to set up, uh, senior centers in various parts of the city. Now, due to budgetary limitations, we were not able to get approval to expand this program. But as we're constantly doing, where you have reassessed our program, and we have come through with a plan, whereby we believe we're going to be able to make it available to a much larger group of persons. And that's the plan that we call our constellation centers. We are going to set up groups of three centers in particular areas. And while all the centers will operate on a 9:00 to 5:00, five-day-a-week basis, not every center will be able to have available all the multi-service centers-- multi services, which we have normally available-

[00:05:34] Betty Shacke: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:34] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: -in our center. But we will have a parent center where all these services will be available. And we will then be able to pick up in some of the smaller facilities that are offered to us and establish a program, and send in people specialists on one basis or another to work with the older people. And we're also moving in the direction of working with the older people themselves to take on the leadership.

[00:06:03] Betty Shacke: Now, and, uh, there's sort of an allied question here, I think. Is yours-- are the people in charge of these centers entirely paid staff of the Department of Social Services or is this something that person could volunteer to help with?

[00:06:18] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: Oh, we would welcome volunteers. We do have volunteers.

[00:06:22] Betty Shacke: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:22] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: We have over 200 volunteers, uh, in our, uh, 46 centers, but we could use three or four times, uh, that number. We do have, uh, volunteers in terms of the people who are on our boards of directors. Uh, we, uh, not only have, uh, the paid staff from the Department of Welfare, and that really is a minimal staff. That's the professional and maybe one-

[00:06:46] Betty Shacke: Yeah.

[00:06:47] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: -other person to assist. But we use every possible community resource. And I think it's because of this that last year we had 5,000-

[00:06:56] Betty Shacke: Hmm.

[00:06:56] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: -people from all over the world who came and talked to us to find out how we run the centers.

[00:07:01] Betty Shacke: Now, I suppose that in our listening au-audience that tonight there must be some people who would like to know where these centers are, either because they're among the elderly and would like to attend one, or because they might like to volunteer to help. How would they go about finding out where they are, either for themselves, or to volunteer?

[00:07:21] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: Uh, we have a directory listing each one of these centers. And if, uh, the listeners will write in to miss Sylvia Greenfield, Director of the Division of Day Centers for Older Persons at 271 Church Street, they can obtain the listing of this. And if they-- anyone is interested in volunteering, if they will indicate this, she will immediately be in touch with them. I'll repeat it again- [laughs]

[00:07:52] Betty Shacke: Uh, yes. Do, please.

[00:07:53] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: -because we're most interested. Miss Sylvia Greenfield, Director, Division of Day Centers for Older Persons, 271 Church Street, New York City.

[00:08:05] Betty Shacke: Thank you very much. Uh, for the benefit of our audience who may have tuned in late, this is, What Makes New York City Run, a program presented by the League of Women Voters of New York City. I'm Betty Shacke, a League member, and my partner tonight is Mrs. Virginia O'Neill, Director of the Bureau of Special Services of the Department of Social Services. It used to be known as the Department of Welfare
.
And I think that Mrs. O'Neill in her discussion of the special services being given to older people has indicated one of the reasons that the department's name was changed; because it is an effort to go out to many more people and provide ever continuing services. I think there's another program that you're responsible for, Mrs. O'Neill, that is probably going to be needing more and more as, uh, medical science increases our longevity, and that's foster homes for older persons. Uh, if a family is willing to take an older person into their home, to provide them with a home, what kind of qual-quaifications does the family have to have?

[00:09:12] Mrs. Virginia O’Neil: Well, first and foremost, uh, we are looking for warm persons who are truly interested in working with older persons. And we are looking for people who would take this older person into the home as really a member of-of the family. There are, uh, many conditions around, uh, certain physical, uh, standards. We're particularly in need of homes in which, uh, the-- there are no stairs to climb. Uh, I do know that there are many private family homes where this may be possible. And I'm hoping that in our listening audience tonight we may have some, um, adults whose children have grown up and married and who may have, uh, some vacant rooms--
[00:10:02] Betty Shacke: They do have to have a separate room. Is that part of the--?

[00:10:04] Virginia O'Neill: Uh, well, uh, we can have a shared room. Two of our residents may share a room.

[00:10:11] Betty Shacke: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:11] Virginia O'Neill: We pay $200 a month if the person is alone in a room and $190 a month if the room is shared. Now, uh, here again, uh, we would want to for the protection, not only of our, uh, older person, but for the person who will be the proprietor to ensure that, uh, the home meets certain standards in terms of fire protection, et cetera. But, uh, we welcome even a shared room. Naturally, most older people are just, as you and I do, prefer to have a private room if it's at all possible.

[00:10:47] Betty Shacke: Well, the family that takes one of these older people in, um, I would assume many-- in many cases, the person has to have a special diet. Uh, they would have to provide special food, laundry?

[00:11:02] Virginia O'Neill: Uh, well, uh, we do allow, uh, an extra allowance to the person, uh, for her personal, uh, laundry. The only type of laundry that would have to be, uh, done and there, it would depend upon how the proprietor wanted to handle this would be in connection with the normal linens, you know, for the use of the bed and things of that sort and towels. But the personal laundry, we allow a special allowance to the older person. Now, uh, while some older people require special diets, not all do. Now, we wouldn't want this to really act as a deterrent because we do have home economists who are available, uh, for consultation, uh, with a proprietor and can give her help in preparing this.

[00:11:48] Betty Shacke: Hmm.

[00:11:48] Virginia O'Neill: -And it is not-- let me assure you, it is not difficult. Uh, I think that many of us who have our older parents in the home or work with people who are unsold free diets can understand this. These are not sick people.

[00:12:03] Betty Shacke: I see. Well, now-now you've established one of the qualifications for receiving a foster home. Um, how about income? There must be many people who have, as you mentioned before, uh, minimal income. They are perhaps able to support themselves, but they are no longer able really to live alone and yet can't afford to hire someone to take care of them. Are these people eligible for this foster home program?

[00:12:30] Virginia O'Neill: Well, uh, frankly, we have the responsibility, uh, for setting the standards and for inspecting all the homes, whether the person is in receipt of public assistance or not. However, when it comes to the actual placement at the present time because of the limited number of foster homes, we have had to limit these foster homes to persons who needed assistance from us in terms-

[00:12:56] Betty Shacke: Hmm.

[00:12:56] Virginia O'Neill: -of our placement. But we do have some people who are paying their own way. Now, they work out the arrangement with the proprietor on a-a private, uh, basis. But, uh, we have a mixture. The great majority of people are in receipt of public assistance. And this is true whether they are referred by our agency or by voluntary agencies in the community. But again, the direction in which we want to go with the agent is to make these services available. Because unlike public assistances, uh, citizen, uh, recipients being second class citizens, in the case of the agent, we have more services that are available to people who are receipt of public assistance in this city than are available to the agent who are not in receipt of public assistance.

[00:13:46] Betty Shacke: Hmm. Yes. And there're gonna be more and more of those people, right?

[00:13:48] Virginia O'Neill: That's what I think.

[00:13:49] Betty Shacke: If someone wants to offer a home for an older person or wants to find one for themselves, how do they get in touch with you, same number?

[00:13:57] Virginia O'Neill: Uh, well, it's a different person in charge of this program. The person, uh, to whom, uh, they should write is, uh, Ms. Grace Kaplit, that's K-A-P-L-I-T, Director of Auxiliary Services, 271 Church Street, New York City.

[00:14:21] Betty Shacke: I'm gonna ask you to repeat those names and the address again at the end of the program so people can go get a pencil and paper if they've missed it this time. And I'd like on this last program on the Department of Social Services to spend our last few minutes on a subject that has become one of, I think, overriding importance and is not very well understood. And that is what is the department doing to prepare people who receive public assistance to find employment and then help them get a job? Just one of- one of your bureaus or responsibilities is the employer ability evaluation service. What-what does that mean?

[00:15:04] Virginia O'Neill: Well, uh, let me start. I would be very glad to discuss what that means. But let me start by giving, uh, the public some idea of who the people are who are on a public assistance. And I think, uh, sometimes this is misunderstood. Of, uh, the approximately 230,000 cases on public assistance, 50% of those consist of mothers and childrens-- children who are receiving, uh, what we call the Aid to dependent Children Grant.

[00:15:39] Betty Shacke: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:39] Virginia O'Neill: And in most of these cases there is no man in the household.

[00:15:44] Betty Shacke: Right.

[00:15:44] Virginia O'Neill: Another 20%, roughly, and I'm giving these non-figures, consist of persons who are receiving old age assistance. These are people who are in financial need over 65 years of age. Uh, another, uh, 10% consists of persons who have been medically determined to be so disabled that they qualify for the federal program of aid to the disabled. So we've disposed of roughly 80%-

[00:16:16] Betty Shacke: Right.

[00:16:16] Virginia O'Neill: -of our caseload. Now, a-- uh, that leaves us with 20% of our caseload with a little less than 4% of which consist of families in which the father is unemployed, as usually, a mother in the household, and children. And they are receiving what we call our temporary aid to dependent children grant. These are men who have worked but are temporarily unemployed. [crosstalk]

[00:16:44] Betty Shacke: Now, just the other 60
.
[00:16:44] Virginia O'Neill: Now, these are the people who move.

[00:16:46] Betty Shacke: Yeah.

[00:16:46] Virginia O'Neill: Now we get to the other 16% of the persons who receive what we refer to as home relief. And in, uh, many parts of the country, it's called General Assistance Program. This really is the catchall for people who do not fall into the other federal, uh, programs. I didn't discuss the blind.

[00:17:06] Betty Shacke: Hmm.

[00:17:06] Virginia O'Neill: It's a very small percentage.

[00:17:07] Betty Shacke: Yeah. But among these are what are called unemployables.

[00:17:09] Virginia O'Neill: Yeah. Yes. But of the roughly 45,000 cases who are receiving, uh, home relief assistance, approximately 15,000 of those 45,000 cases are men who are employed and receiving supplementation. Now, that leaves us with-

[00:17:27] Betty Shacke: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:27] Virginia O'Neill: -30,000 cases. Now of the 30,000 cases, we have a large percentage of people who fall between the ages of 55 and 65 and who have- uh, who are disabled but cannot qualify in terms of the legal definition, either of blindness or the federal definition of permanently and totally disabled.

[00:17:51] Betty Shacke: Well, let's go to the young or middle-aged, uh, adult-

[00:17:57] Virginia O'Neill: Hmm.

[00:17:57] Betty Shacke: -who not encumbered with small children, um, who has been deemed unemployable or in any rate doesn't have a job. To some extent, this is because they can't read and write English, or I understand-- [crosstalk]

[00:18:08] Virginia O'Neill: That's only one--?

[00:18:10] Betty Shacke: That's one-one example. But let me ask you specifically, in the case of someone who cannot get a job 'cause he can't speak the language, uh, can you require him to go to school and learn?
[00:18:26] Virginia O'Neill: We don't require them to go to school and learn. I think anybody can immediately recognize that you must be motivated to learn. But we can, and most people are interested in going to school to learn. But it's more involved than learning the language. Because if the only problem that we had were that our clients, and this at any one point they range from 8,000 to 12,000 people in this group. Uh, and I'm talking about our total group of people who are employable to any degree. Only about 5% or less than that of that 8,000 have as their one handicap-- as their only handicapped the language difficulty.

[00:19:12] Betty Shacke: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:12] Virginia O'Neill: That can be easily overcome because we do make referrals and we work very closely with the Board of Education on what we call our wealthier education program. And at any one time, there are over 600 or 700 people who are attending classes full-time from 9:00 to 3:00 each day trying to learn English, uh, the basics of arithmetic and things of that sort.

[00:19:35] Betty Shacke: Now, once they learn it, uh, does the department help them find a job?

[00:19:39] Virginia O'Neill: Well, yes, but we have-- we go way beyond that. We have found in our experience that the person who doesn't know, uh, how to speak English invariably also has other-- he lacks training skills so that we have developed a group of training programs where we have the education and the training going on simultaneously.

[00:20:03] Betty Shacke: Are you working to any extent with industry in these training programs?

[00:20:07] Virginia O'Neill: Uh, we have tried to get approval from the federal authorities who are sponsoring our Title Five, uh, to work directly, uh, with the, uh, industry in terms of having on-the-job training in industry. But, uh, the federal regulations are such that we can only work with the nonprofit and the private-- um, and the voluntary, uh, agencies in terms of the training. But we do have job solicitors. We have 10 people, uh, on our staff who go out and contact the employers all over the city.

And we know, uh, particularly, uh, right at this time, although our listeners may not be aware of it, that this is the time when the hiring begins for the Christmas rush for-- uh, in the factories to make the dolls and the toys. And we get the jobs offered to us, uh, through this type of thing. In fact, last year, of the 8,000 persons whom we placed in jobs through our, uh, Division of Employment and Rehabilitation, over 65% of these jobs were obtained by our 10 solicitors.
[00:21:18] Betty Shacke: I think you made a, um, presented a very interesting statistic there. You had said earlier that there were between 8,000 and 11,000 so-called unemployables, and now you've said that last year, you, uh, placed approximately 8,000 people. Is this a pretty good record?

[00:21:36] Virginia O'Neill: Uh, what I wanna stress is that, uh, contrary to, uh, the, uh, usual, uh, impression, the, uh, public assistance caseload, even the home relief caseload is a constantly changing caseload. Uh, we placed 8,000 people. Uh, we would like to have been able to place much more, and we think we're going to be able to this year. Because under the special training programs that have now been opened up to us, because up until, uh, little over three years ago, only the physically handicapped could be retrained. There were no-

[00:22:17] Betty Shacke: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:17] Virginia O'Neill: -facilities in this great big city of ours to offer training to a man who was unemployed but was not physically handicapped, only socially.

[00:22:27] Betty Shacke: I see. I do wish that we could go into this in greater detail. But if we are going to give those names and addresses as we promised, I think we will have to stop on this very important program. Uh, earlier in the program, you gave us a name and a telephone number that people should call, uh, call or-or to which they should write if they're interested in volunteering to work in the daycare centers for the elderly or older people who want to go to one. What was that?

[00:22:58] Virginia O'Neill: That's Ms. Sylvia Greenfield, Director of the Division of Day Centers for Older Persons, 271 Church Street, New York City.

[00:23:12] Betty Shacke: Right. Now you gave us another name and address for people to contact if they want to volunteer at a foster home or if they are interested in securing one for themselves. Will you give us that again?

[00:23:26] Virginia O'Neill: Uh, that is Ms. Grace Kaplit, K-A, P as in Peter, L-I-T, Director of Auxiliary Services, 271 Church Street, New York City.

[00:23:43] Betty Shacke: Thank you so much, Mrs. O'Neill. I hope that as a result of this program, you will have many volunteers and that we will succeed in telling people in our audience about some of the most important programs that you are responsible for. This program, What Makes New York City Run, is presented every Thursday evening at 9:30 by the League of Women Voters. Tonight, we have concluded a series of four programs on the Department of Social Services. Next week, we begin a series on public education in New York City.

We would value our co-- audience's comments on these programs. The League of Women Voters is a nonpartisan organization that urges all citizens to know about and participate in their government. For information about the league and a free leaflet entitled, What Makes New York City Run, send a stamped, self-addressed envelope to What Makes New York City Run WNYC, New York, New York 10007.

[00:24:47] [END OF AUDIO]

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