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What makes New York is that we run the Thursday evening broadcast Garber is not a crime bribe in cooperation with the League of Women Voters of New York Good evening and welcome to what makes New York City run a program presented not only to women voters believe hope through these programs to make our government more understandable to the citizens who live and work in the city and to help them to take part in the last four programs have been a series on the Department of Social Services tonight we want to look at the city's vast education system. Education is not only important to us as parents but as citizens and taxpayers who believe that our schools should prepare each student with a solid and complete basic education so that he will be able to fit into an ever increasingly demanding environment. I am Riva Steiner a leading member My guest is Mr Harold SIEGEL Secretary to the Board of Education and from my knowledge of Him He is one who has been most active. In his efforts to bring to New York City school children the best in education Thank you Mr single for joining me thank you Mr Dogg of harassing me as they go and detention in New York is big business it leads all other items in the cost to the city tonight we would like you to give us an overall view of the system where are we we hear constantly of the many problems and I know they are pressing on but we should understand the magnitude of the system so that when it how many students attend school. This year when school opens we expect that there will be about one million one hundred ten thousand students in the schools. In the elementary school they will be divided roughly close to five hundred thousand in the elementary school plus ninety five thousand kindergarten children and about ten thousand pre-kindergarten children that makes a total of almost. Six hundred thousand in the elemental an elementary and in a junior high school they will have to go out two hundred forty thousand in the high schools two hundred seventy two thousand of home a bit over forty thousand will be in the vocational high school on the Moken school and I think we ought to indicate that there are about seventy eight hundred children and special schools yet some will come to that I hope later how many schools are there altogether Well we have about of likely over nine hundred places where we teach children there are about eight hundred sixty school buildings and then there are any number of. Special institutions and annexes and so on where we also conducted occasional program does this include the high school as well are you talking about both elemental moves the high and high from ninety one high school buildings almost over six hundred elementary school places where we teach children and. Varia there are about one hundred forty junior high schools in the ME I think would be interesting to know which borough would be your guess has the most students are is Brooklyn Brooklyn or going under there and they have the most schools and our schools the most children children and now how many teachers. Well we hope that on September eleventh some sixty seven thousand professional people will be going into the schools that this doesn't clued up somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty seven twenty eight hundred schools secretaries. A sin and that loads the school secretaries the laboratory assistants and all the supervisory ranks so that actually the teachers are what about fifty five thousand would you say there are in terms of classroom teachers they'll be about fifty seven thousand fifty seven thousand I think it would be very interesting for us all to know how are our teachers recruited well they're recruited in many ways of course the most important source for teachers in New York City now as it has been for many many years are all of city colleges and then the universe universities and teach it colleges in the city the private ones and. In addition a couple of years ago we instituted a new procedure whereby teams of New York I remember the Board of Examiners plus. A member of the personnel division go around the country they concentrate mostly on the east and south and if you examine and practically appoint teaches right in the. City they happen to be was Baltimore New Orleans or Atlanta or whatever then of course we do a great deal of advertising as you may have noticed recently I mean this is relatively new now in the last two some of the board has instituted a new winter rather exciting program called the intensive teacher training that I've been reading about and I'm very interested in that now the purpose of this is to try to bring into the schools. As teaches recruiters teaches college graduates who had not previously prepared for teaching but have now come around to the point where they think teaching might be a good idea and in the summertime they are given very intensive training this summer they included actually practice teaching because we had enough some elementary schools to do this in. Enough summer schools generally and last year. About two thousand people took was course and about sixteen hundred way around up the year as teachers. This year close to two thousand the taking it somewhat less and we anticipate that this is an important source or from when you said six hundred teachers were reading you mean they weren't going to be substituted if they were going to be read although these are all well a new license has been established as are called conditional I that's what I was interested in and since the number of Education court courses accredited they take is substantially lower than what but be necessary for a regular license or even a substitute license they are given this with the understanding that they will complete their education requirements within a couple of years in addition to which they are given intensive on the job training supervision during the course of the year I said that they would then tenure when it not actually begin now they tell never had completed their That's why they are conditionals practical purposes they are substitute teachers Yes And and now we started the teachers you've mentioned this large figure beside the teachers how many people are employed in the Department of Education and what do they do well we have various kinds of employees. We have about five thousand somewhat over five thousand administrative employees who do the payrolls the administrative work secretarial work and so on. In the headquarters in the various offices. And this also includes the school custodians. Now because the school custodians in turn since they are responsible for the custodial operation of the building employ another fifty three hundred. Kleeneze firemen helpers and so on. Then. In addition to these employees there are a large number of hourly employee easing the school said his teacher aide there am a thousand of the yes I know and they get paid by the hour and they get paid by the outlet and then the school lunch program which is a huge one in New York City employ some nine thousand full time and part time people now the teacher aide actually do some of the chores that the teacher used to have to do not I mean besides teaching the teacher aides do not teach you know of course not and then the teacher a. Relieve the teacher of some of the choices they do your duty they do not want to be they back clerical work various And are there are enough of them now some of the teachers are actually women teachers never think they never thought they are now I know that. Which brings me to something that I know you know a grand thing on that how effective our parents got you had more experience in this thing on than anyone I know well and for the same reason I may be of a prejudice Well I favor a parent group yet let's drop it this way I think you would find if a study were made and one study he had been made some fifteen years ago the kind of bear the found that in a in the schools themselves with a parent associate sociate and operate directly there would probably be a correlation between good parent associations and good schools so what. Better schools. However parent associations operate on various levels in the city they frequently in most cases have district councils where they are used for consultation purposes by Superintendent by local school board. And then they are organized in parent federations on a city wide basis there are several of them. And I think I could say that in many ways this is this high degree of organization with one of them united pants sociate and having a lot she relatively large staff is quite unique in New York City and they do one row a certain amount of weight and they are listened to. With great respect by the top staff and by the board doesn't say mean that they always agree frequently they'll agree but the resources to carry out the agreements are not available but there is a feeling I think that it was. Well established in New York that the parent voice is an important one when considering new programs and so on they have frequently brought to the board certain programs that have been adopted and have been a substantial assistance now of course there is as time goes on. Increasingly the desire. To. Bring the parents involve the parents more closely in the schools particularly at the local level on the assumption that parent involvement makes a difference to the children and I think that's a true yes instant to get down to something that really may be a small part of it. What can a parent do for instance who wants to attend to and for his child from one school to another well of a parent that is a. Matter which has to be handle locally. The parents should precede the principal. And finally the decision would probably rest with the district superintendent and say ah schools of zone and they are in order to organize all schools of A in order to keep the populations leveled by any number of reasons they are zoned and. They do not lightly break the zoning however where a parent can show a hardship a good reason all would be better for the child transfers are permitted and are. Actually carried out and it's done really through the principal of the school it is done really through the district superintendent this is this is what I was going to come back to I heard you say earlier that the parent teaches groups are organized on the level of the district now would they have any contact with the news district superintendent just not only where they bear learned that the parent groups would have that contact Yes the district council was they don't exist in all of districts but they exist in most districts parents find various ways of organizing and relating to the staff but in many of the districts the district superintendent leans very heavily on these district council would Which brings me a little to than a question maybe I'm coming in too soon tell me if I am. There was a plan to decentralize the school I mean from the one Central Board of Education to what to district Well there I was to what it's no longer was the yeah I go to a. April the Board of Education adopted a descent was a sion plan at the long study. Actually the move had started previous About two years ago when the first steps were taken to change the headquarters organization now what has happened is that a great deal more. Authority and a great deal more flexibility is permitted to the district superintendent and to the locals coming up at different times have we at that thirty there are thirty decided that's right and there are now certain expenditures are going to be determined locally teachers are assigned new teachers are assigned to district pools and they will then be assigned by the district superintendent and substation with local school board they district superintendent a local school board will be involved in the appointment of the principal and even the local school board is to be consulted in the appointment of district superintendent there is a great deal more. Brown color power or a great deal more far do you really get bested now in the districts in the hope that out of this will be developed a certain a better knowledge of London going on in the morning or you know I think what we want is to involve the community yet parents in the communities and the feeling is that if there is more that they can decide there's more involvement and I've already entered smaller area. For the benefit of those who have tuned in like this is what makes New York City run a program cresent it by the league when voters of New York City I am or even staggeringly member and I am discussing the New York City schools with Mr Harold signal secretary to the Board of Education let's just think you mentioned before in the number of schools and so on that there were special programs. How are these special programs down when and what are some of them I think this is something that really new and interesting well is a high school system that has over one million one hundred thousand children obviously there are thousands of children who have very special needs they may be because of handicaps or they may be because a special talent. And the school system in New York City has them over the years of trying to meet the. Now for example I can just give us light rundown for example we have two schools with death children we have Brad classes full of the seriously handicapped and we have classes for the visually handicapped but children who do not need Braille there are many many classes in schools will emotionally disturbed children. We operate schools and resit many residential institutions for example children who are remanded or by court order to residential institutions and we will say to those institutions we send teachers and equipment so that school programs can go on if they go on in the hospitals and there are four hundred classes for physically handicapped children and. From the children who have a heart condition is a do not permit normal activity cerebral palsy children and so on they're off four hundred teachers assigned to homebound children children who. Teaches visit the home to do the instruction because the children cannot come to school now and the other side is calling their classes man to lecture me gifted children there are classes there are special high schools you know your children and yet why did you tell him not to our high school still function Oh surely it's now combined with that I think or not wanting art school and a new building is being is in the process of being designed for those two schools in the Lincoln Center so that they all have direct access to so many of the it is not things that are. Connected with their programs we have special schools with science so on so that our special programs. Are a very large and important aspect of our schools for example we have to. Shelter. Workshops in the center for. Mentally Retarded Children and. Many classes for mentally retarded and of course this is. Never quite meet meet all the needs I know and this is where the extra high I'm afraid you know me me me me if we don't meet our need for most of the children we need much more but we did the best we can for the handicapped and that's what it's not always just money isn't it sometimes that and the priority many things. Which we just I think to the summer program I remember reading at the beginning of the summer that very comprehensive programs were being offered for about seven hundred thousand students did they really get off the ground well have you any way of knowing at this point how successful they are that's about right. We anticipate we estimate that some seven hundred thousand people these. Children you adults and so on were involved in the summer programs if you which were huge and with the largest we ever had and I know you know I said when I read about it we think that it may be that in part this was one reason why New York City despite the humidity had of raga relatively cool summer. We used a great deal of federal money and altogether leaving out the teacher training aspects of asana programs we spent about twenty five million dollars and it included programs that really moved from calculus and foreign languages to arts and crafts and dancing and we tried to meet the needs of many people he Chinglish How well were they offered How did one know about it and well these receive substantial advertising let's say the estimate is that seven hundred thousand people were involved in which case that was they got to know. That and seven hundred school buildings with you yet with that program polite and they capes and they camps and so now a lot of this is is on going for media there was an innovation this year in that almost two and a quarter million dollars was used for what we call the centralized programs carrying out the decentralization program districts were allotted a certain amount of money and they were told the district superintendent in effect was told you and the community work out the kind of program you think is the best. Buyable and most needed in in your district and these. Lot of these programs are say about ten percent of the money was used this way was it did you have any coffee ration with the the community action groups I have yet these are the in this connection particularly these decentralized programs this week superintendents tended to bring such groups in where they existed in their districts now and the Head Start programs of course there was direct cooperation with the Office of economic unit not that one I know. Their wives relationship. With these community groups yet. What has happened with the plan for establishing the Comprehensive High School which would merge the vocational high school with the Academic High School Well I think it's important to understand that there were really two high school planned and they related to each other one that was a four year high school which is part of this original plan and as a result of that. Our high schools are today on a four year organization they are horribly overcrowded and still don't have the room to absorb the ninth grade they can they haven't absorbed but one third of the new talking about the Academic High School of all high schools are a four year plan Yes Oh I know that but. And the reason I mention this is because in part this is a problem of plant and facilities as well now the Comprehensive High School there has been difficulty in defining just what that comprehensive high school should have and what should be done with some fifteen sixteen vocational high school. Buildings but the board has been and tentatively discussing this and it has been on the calendar. Now constantly and I do think that within perhaps a month or maybe two months there will be a definitive decision and I mean on that now all new high schools are being built as comprehensive high school yes that we just have a few minutes remaining and we are going into the whole area and then sing it pension where the money comes where the money goes where it comes from in a later program in this series but would you just give us an idea of the cost of this biggest of all school systems I know astronomical Well the cost for the coming school year will be in the neighborhood using a lot on the one billion. Eighty million something like that a billion eighty million in that neighborhood or whatever it cost to it. Then in addition to that there is the money that is spent for debt service for school buildings which comes to a About one hundred fifty million a year these days and there are other costs such as health. Which is taken over by that have department. I'm sure you feel Mr Siegel at that that we can't afford not to spend this money however I want to thank you for joining me tonight this program what makes New York City run is presented every Thursday evening at nine thirty by the League of Women Voters tonight we have begun a series on the public schools which will be continued next Thursday evening we would value our audience comments on these programs the League of Women Voters is a nonpartisan organization that urges all citizens to know about and participate in their government for information about the lead and a free leaflet entitled What makes New York City run send the stamp self-addressed envelope to what makes New York City run W. N.Y.C. New York New York one zero zero zero seven not conclude the live broadcast of what makes New York City run we're going to ground rod buyers with. They've been cooperating with police give women both join us again and who we saw members that evening at nine thirty or another of the broadcast both of them in a couple broadcasting that. Whom. Or what the poor. Bore or. The. Boer war. Or are. Very. Shy. Boy put the board. The and. Put.