[00:00:00] Dick Pyatt: Good evening, and welcome to Labor Press Conference. Apparently, because of pressing community needs and disturbing personal problems that arise out of a workers disability, the New York Ci-City Central Labor Council has outlined a project program for labor rehabilitation service. [unintelligible 00:00:16] operational procedure will be the employment of the teamwork approach.
To discuss this program with us, we welcome as our guests this evening the director of the Community Service Committee, Mr. Lewis L. Levine, who, since May 1952, has worked as director of Labor Participation Department of the Greater New York Fund has worked with the AFL, CIO, and independent unions and management, advising them of community resources, has acted as liaison with public and voluntary health and welfare agencies in New York City.

Has prepared program guides, training manuals, and other educational materials, as well as the conduction, if we can use such a word of numerous training institutes, conferences, and educational programs for labor management and community organizations. Our second guest is Mr. Levine's assistant, Gerald R. Waters, who is assistant director to Mr. Levine, as well as Assistant Director of the Rehabilitation Service and the Community Service Committee. Questioning our guests this evening is our panel from the Labor press, Austin H. Perlow.

[00:01:24] Austin H. Perlow: Business and Labor Editor, the Long Island Press.

[00:01:27] Dick Pyatt: And Dick Stronsky.

[00:01:29] Dick Stronsky: Managing editor of 32B, published by Local 32B of the Building Service employees.

[00:01:34] Dick Pyatt: Thank you, panel. Our usual reminder that the ideas or opinions expressed during this program are not necessarily those of this station. We begin with our first question from Austin Perlow.

[00:01:44] Austin H. Perlow: Mr. Levine, to begin with, could you tell us what do you hope to accomplish through this rehabilitation project that will directly affect or benefit the working man or working woman in New York City?

[00:01:58] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: Well, Mr. Perlow, I think the best way to define the need for the project and what we hope to accomplish with it is to say that right now, there are seven out of every thousand people in the city of New York and in the country at large who are need of rehabilitation services. We know that many of them have been, uh, languishing or waiting for service by agencies and are not reached. We hope through this project to be able to reach them early and get them to the appropriate service in the community.

[00:02:29] Austin H. Perlow: I-I-I think you have approached Mr. Levine uh, uh, uh, far better than I have. So let's go back to the fundamentals, uh, and define them. What would specifically be a rehabilitation service?

[00:02:46] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: What is a rehabilitation service? Well, a rehabilitation service that we are going to be concerned with is vocational rehabilitation. The concept being those people who are out of work due to a disability or an injury must be able to get back to work if they physically can or mentally can. Now, we are not only talking about people with orthopedic handicaps, we're talking about disabilities arising from diseases, strokes, heart disease, TB, arthritis, diabetes, et cetera. These are the people who right now are either unemployed or underemployed due to this kind of disability, and we wanna get 'em back to full employment opportunities.

[00:03:27] Dick Pyatt: Question now from Dick Stronsky.

[00:03:29] Dick Stronsky: Mr. Levine, with all the voluntary agencies and-and, uh-uh, government agencies on different levels, federal, state, and city. Why was it, or rather, what was it, that prompted the City Labor Council to, uh, sponsor such a project or to initiate such a project?

[00:03:46] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: First of all, Mr. Stronsky, let me say, this is not another agency. The Central Labor Council is not setting up another agency, and the government grant was not intended to create another agency. There are enough agencies in the community as we now see it, and possibly, uh, maybe a few can be expanded. What we are doing is we're bridging the gap, so to speak, between the agencies and the union member.

Right now, many union members just are not reached. They're not reached in time to get to these social agencies or public agencies in order to get help. We're gonna bridge this gap. We're gonna get there quicker. We're going to advise them of these services and follow them through to make sure they get appropriate services.

[00:04:26] Dick Pyatt: Dick?

[00:04:27] Dick Stronsky: Mr. Waters, what are some of the objectives specifically of the project?

[00:04:32] Gerald R. Waters: Well, again, as our director, Lewis Levine, has just stated, the main objective and the goals, of course, of our program, is to the establishment of a rehabilitation referral mechanism, wherever possible, between our local unions and the rehabilitation agencies, the encouragement of a rehabilitation procedure in all union health centers in New York City, and further to encourage more effective case findings by means of conferences, seminars with local union offices, community service committee members, workman's compensation specialists, union counselors, and Labor Health Center personnel.

[00:05:11] Dick Pyatt: Question now from Austin Perlow.

[00:05:12] Austin H. Perlow: Could you elaborate a little on that, Mr. Waters, and tell me how you intend to reach the individual union member who needs this type of help?

[00:05:22] Gerald R. Waters: Well, in this answer, Mr. Perlow, I'd like to say that my own personal experience over the last six and a half years or seven years, uh, I might have to preface it by saying that I've been the safety director, uh, for the electrical construction industry for these past six and a half, seven years, during which time I've had access to every accident report that occurred on the construction job sites, and our follow-up then was more or less of a means of, uh, trying to rehabilitate the injured to disable disabled electrician, but we were doing it in a sense without direction. We feel now that we've gotten something that is gonna enable us to really follow cases through with some more, uh, leadership than what we've had in the past.

And again, this is all due to the, uh, New York City Central Labor Council under the directions of Mr. Harry Van Arsdale Jr. that's brought this about. I might add that in the year just concluded, 1962, uh, we in the electrical construction industry, the workers, uh, there were 220 disabling injuries that we have record of. Uh, again, there was no mechanism to follow up these cases. No-- uh, these workers, when they would be disabled, they had actually no place to turn to. But under this project, we now know, uh, that somebody is here to help him.

[00:06:54] Dick Pyatt: Uh, Dick Stronsky has a question, but before he asks it, uh, Mr. Levine, I'd like to ask you what might appear to be an obvious question. Uh, the New York City Central Labor Council, its head is Harry Van Arsdale, and Michiel Sanson is the chairman of the Community Services Committee. And we've had on our program a number of times, but why does a council bother with rehabilitating employees? Uh, other than it's a-, it's a-, it's a wonderful thing to do, but why are they doing it?

[00:07:23] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: Well, this is a very good question, and I think it's an-- and the answer is obvious the Central Labor body concerned with the affairs of the 550 some odd affiliates of Central Labor Council and the members. The theme of the Community Services Committee is working, serving, and giving. And, uh, the theme of the central labor body is to help its members and their families, the-- all the affiliates and their members and their families, and all problems, not only on the job but off the job. Uh, we're not only talking in terms of limited horizons, economic horizons of 9:00 to 5:00 or 8:00 to 4:00. We talk in terms of 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year, whatever happens to that member and his family.

When we go ahead and the trade union, uh, negotiates a contract and buys, uh, through its employer or through joint ownership, uh, Group Health, Blue Cross, et cetera, we wanna make sure that the hospitals in the community are adequately staffed to take care of this member when he goes in, even though he has insurance. We wanna make sure that the doctors are around to provide him with adequate medical care.

We want to be sure because the Trade Union Movement is one of the largest contributors to social agencies in the community in terms of money. We wanna make sure that these social agencies are equipped to handle the needs of the people when they need them.

[00:08:35] Dick Pyatt: Oh, well [unintelligible 00:08:35] Dick Stronsky.

[00:08:37] Dick Stronsky: Mr. Levine, two questions. Have you had any reaction from agencies thus far since the announcement of the project? And number two, uh, do you see any possibility of this being a pilot project to be used in other cities?

[00:08:51] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: First, we've had a very good reaction from agencies in the community. The first reaction we received was from the State Division of Vocational Rehabilitation, which is the largest vocational rehabilitation service in the state of New York. They have promised us 1000% cooperation. I must emphasize this. Adrian Levy, who was the assistant Commissioner of Education in charge of vocational rehabilitation, came down from Albany, met with us a number of times, and has instructed his staff to cooperate 1000%. The Institute for Cripple and Disabled, the Institute for Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Dr. Rusks organization have all quickly come to the forum and said anything we can do to help, we will do and do quickly.

Realizing one thing, all of the agencies in the community that we have approached all offer support, but they all say one thing, we're understaffed, and you'll have to take this as one of the problems to be faced up to. How can we process your cases any more quickly? Now, we wanna find this out. Now, this is a pilot project. What we find out here will be applicable to many large cities in many large urban centers across this country. And when the Federal Government Vocational Rehabilitation Administration made this grant, they made it clear that what would-- we found out from this project could be used in Chicago and Boston and Philadelphia and San Francisco, Los Angeles. These large urban centers have the same problems New York City has.

[00:10:09] Dick Pyatt: Austin Perlow.

[00:10:10] Austin H. Perlow: I'm curious, Mr. Levine, to know what the actual mechanism of the project will be. Are you gonna have an office, a center where people can come for information, or are you gonna go out to the various East Unions and conduct an educational campaign? Just how are you going to bring about this, uh, working relationship between the union member and the agencies?

[00:10:31] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: Well, so Perlow, we're gonna do exactly what you've said. We're gonna have a center, and we're gonna go out to the local unions. In our center, which is a part of the New York City Central Labor Council physical structure, 386 Park Avenue, South New York City. The Central Labor Council has, uh, donated and put-put aside one-half of its physical space in which to house the project, which will consist of myself, Mr. Waters, a medical social worker, a public health nurse, a vocational counselor, a medical consultant, an MD who's trained in physical therapy work and a research consultant.

Now, this center will house these people, and they will do their interviewing and conduct most of the research up there. In addition, our staff, myself and Mr. Waters, and our other people on staff will go out to the local unions and meet with local union leadership, educating them as to how they can early identify problems and get 'em to us or to appropriate agencies.

[00:11:25] Dick Pyatt: Dick Stronsky.

[00:11:26] Dick Stronsky: Sort of by way of anticipation, Mr. Waters, could you give us an illustration of the procedure, for instance, that a local three member of, member of the Electrical Workers Union would go through after he is injured on the job?

[00:11:40] Gerald R. Waters: Well, to answer that, uh, Richard, I think that we've had sort of a built-in mechanism, again, as I-I think I used the phrase before, without direction, we now are gonna take advantage of something that we have created over these years where we have records, daily records, we're gonna make immediate use of these records to start now calling these men in, because now we have the very thing that we've been hoping for, and we're thankful that we have it at our disposal.

Dick Stronsky: Well, what happens, for instance, let's assume that a man is injured at on the job and he is forced to stop work, let's say, for three months. Uh, give us some idea if you can, what happens assuming that he applied to the project for rehabilitation?

[00:12:26] Gerald R. Waters: Well, I assume that question is, again, directed at me, Mr. Stronsky?

[00:12:29] Dick Stronsky: Yes.

[00:12:30] Gerald R. Waters: Uh, we've had the situation where we have men out of work not for three months, but many times, much longer than that. And usually, the injured worker has immediate concern or has, uh, the-the-the knowledge that he has at the moment is only concerned with his compensation checks and the fact that he needs that money desperately. But he has no other thought as to what else he should do or can do or what service is available to him.

These are the people, of course, that we will immediately bring in. We will question whether they are getting the proper attention, whether the people that are treating them or perhaps the right people for that particular type of disabling injury. And certainly in consultation with the people that are presently attending them, uh, we will try to provide, if he is not getting sufficient or the proper treatment, uh, to encourage him to get what's necessary to bring him back as a producer to the community.

[00:13:31] Dick Pyatt: Question now from Austin Perlow.

[00:13:32] Austin H. Perlow: Mr. Levine, I wonder if we can get a little more graphic account of just how vital this need is. Earlier in the program, you said seven out of 1,000 people apparently need a rehabilitation service. Have you any records, have you any figures on the number of members affiliated with the Central Labor Council who could use this type of service today?

[00:13:55] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: I'm a very poor mathematician, but one of the things I, uh, can add is that there's 7 out of 1,000, and we represent 1 million [unintelligible 00:14:02] members in the City of New York. I would say there are 70,000 people who can make use.

[00:14:08] Austin H. Perlow: Thank you. Though I'm a very poor mathematician.

[00:14:12] Dick Pyatt: Uh, Dick Stronsky

[00:14:13] Dick Stronsky: Mr. Levine, what do you see in the way of future operations as far as staff is concerned? Will they be working you-you mentioned before, of course, that you, the-the plan for the project is to use both the offices and field trips. Uh, will the-- will staff members whom you hire, uh, work with existing agencies, or will there be as much of autonomy as necessary for the project?

[00:14:43] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: The staff members that we hire on our staff will be employed by the New York City Central Labor Council, Labor Rehabilitation Liaison project, the official name of the project. They will work for this project, and they will be employed by this project. They will work with the agencies when necessary. And certainly, we find it necessary from the beginning to work with the agencies.

We can't do this job by ourselves. We're not on another agency. Secondly, we're going to urge that our staff people get out and work with the local union leadership because we want them to see real live vocational counselors and social workers and public health nurses and see what they can do and how they function to get an understanding of how they're gonna work with a local union membership.

[00:15:24] Dick Pyatt: Austin. I'm sorry, Di, uh, Dick, you just had a follow-up on that.

[00:15:27] Dick Stronsky: Uh, I don't think we did get from you, Mr. Levine, anything of the background on how the project was cleared through Washington. It came, as I understand, through the Department of Health Education and Welfare?

[00:15:40] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: Well, historically, and I'll wrap it up as quickly as I can. Back in March of 1962, a two-day conference was held, sponsored by the New York City Central Labor Council in cooperation with the vocational rehabilitation agencies in the community. This conference, uh, was to highlight the need for voc-- better vocational rehabilitation programming in our community. Uh, following that, uh, the report of the conference urged that uh, the New York City Central Labor Council do something about implementing some of the recommendations of the conference.

In September, we prepared a request, a grant request to the Vocational Rehabilitation Administration in Washington, DC for a three-year project grant. Uh, some of the monies to be matched by the New York City Central Labor Council. I think some-- we had to talk about that very shortly. Uh, this money was, uh, requested for three years, 90,000 this year, and $85,000 for next year, and $80,000 after that total $255,000.
Uh, the money was agreed to buy an advisory council to the Vocational Rehabilitation administration. VRA has an advisory council made up of public medical and, uh, other members in the community at large who sit and review project grants. They approve this grant as the first one made to an central labor council in this country, as the first one made to an AFL CIO, central labor body of this type. In doing this, we had to agree to certain matching funds.

We had to agree in a central labor body to a total of $49,500 for this year, and $49,000 for next year, and $49,000 a year after that. That's, uh, nearly $150,000. Now, this $150,000 is not in cash. Actual cash outlay, much of it is in time allocated by union officers, union counselors, union personnel, who are going to be pulled off a job to work on the project. A good part of this money is going to be in rent, which a central labor body has to pay for the project, light-heated housing. A good part of the money will also be for telephone and mailing costs, which essential labor body has to pick up for consumable supplies, which is essential labor body has to pay for. These are not only tangible but intangible items. A total and must total this because it's a matching grant.

[00:17:57] Dick Pyatt: Austin Perlow.

[00:17:58] Austin H. Perlow: In other words, you have no background, no precedent to work on, but must, uh, figure out how it's gonna work as you go along, this is something totally new?

[00:18:08] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: Austin, yes. Not only is it totally new, well, we had this problem. Uh, the vocational rehabilitation administration asked us for a budget, and they said to us, how about it, uh, demonstrate, if you will, uh, how this thing can work. Tell us how you expect, uh, to spend, uh, $50 for telephone or $150 for telephone. And, uh, we had to sit down on our little minds and figure out how to spend this money, which we really didn't know how it was gonna work. We submitted a budget, and they approved the budget. Soon as we got the budget approved, we found much to our hour that we understated certain items.

[00:18:43] Austin H. Perlow: [laughs]

[00:18:44] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: And we understated items such as travel. We understated items such as patient care. We understated items as consumable costs, and we understated one big item, which the VRA, Vocational Rehabilitation Administration, said they would not pay for, and that's rent. So we had to, uh, scrounge around for rent and physical space. They wouldn't allow any of these things. Federal government wouldn't pay for these things. The Central Labor Council, the Utility Workers Union, a number of other unions had to pitch in and provide desks, physical equipment, and to pay for all of the things in order to put a staff together. These are the things that the central everybody had to do.

[00:19:18] Dick Pyatt: Dick Stronsky.

[00:19:19] Dick Stronsky: Gerald Waters, there have been a number of organizations in the country, which are-- which work with the physically handicapped. I believe there's a-a federation for the physically handicapped. Presumably, there are at least a half dozen more. Would you venture or guess that this might set any kind of a precedent in terms of organized labor, working more directly with projects or a project like this as opposed to groups like the Federation for the Handicap?

[00:19:45] Gerald R. Waters: Well, there's no question in either Mr. Levine's mind or mine that this will happen, Dick, that, uh, again, as many people that are in organized labor that are just wanting to do the same thing, but wanting to know how. -and, uh, again, this being a demonstration project, a pilot project, if you will-- they're going to-- I'm sure wanna know how we're succeeding, just how we're approaching this in anticipation that they might also be part of such an undertaking.

[00:20:16] Dick Stronsky: And presumably, you have to submit reports both to the Vocational Rehabilitation Administration as well as Mr. Van Dale's council.

[00:20:25] Gerald R. Waters: There's no question about that. And also the federal government in addition to VRA.

[00:20:30] Dick Pyatt: Austin.

[00:20:31] Austin H. Perlow: Yes. I'm curious about one thing, Mr. Levine, you mentioned specifically the assistance provided, uh, by Central Labor Council, by the utility workers, by local three, the electrical workers. What has been the response from some of the other affiliates in New York City affiliates of the- of the council that is?

[00:20:48] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: Well, to my knowledge and everyone we've talked to, and, uh, I hate to, uh, start, uh, picking, uh, local unions out of the air because I already started with three. I know if I forgot to mention somebody, they're gonna get upset. But, uh, we have talked to the Hotel Trades Council, for example, Jay Rubin has been very active in our project, and all the hotel trades council affiliates have been working with us, the furniture workers, uh, the utility workers, uh, IUE, UAW, you can go down the list and, uh, we've practically, uh, gotten pledge of 100% cooperation because this is for their benefit. Every local union recognizes. This is something they've been waiting for. This is something which they cannot do by themselves without some guidance and help.

[00:21:30] Dick Pyatt: Dick Stronsky.

[00:21:31] Dick Stronsky: Mr. Levine, there was a matching grant involved. I think you mentioned it before. Would you say that the matching grant was- was worked into the project to show labor's good faith or because you need the money? I mean, you-- the additional funds will be needed.

[00:21:47] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: Well, the matching grant was worked in because, very frankly, the federal government, the Vocational Rehabilitation Administration, said that we could not get a grant unless the central labor body matched it. And this matching grant is, by law, a requirement. Now, in addition to this, the matching grant had to cover such items, which the vocational rehabilitation certainly wouldn't cover. They could give us all the money for staff, and they give us a good part of the money for consumable supplies, but unless you can put a desk somewhere, we can't operate out in the street.

[00:22:18] Dick Pyatt: Austin Perlow.

[00:22:19] Austin H. Perlow: Mr. Waters, several times this evening. You have mentioned safety in your own experience in, uh, the electrical workers local three and about high rate of accidents, uh, which of course has a great deal to do with rehabilitation, but perhaps we can look at it for one moment, at least from another angle. Uh, are there any suggestions that you might have to make, uh, for legislation or procedures, uh, which might improve safety conditions on the job and-and perhaps to some extent at least, uh, might make work like this unnecessary?

[00:22:53] Gerald R. Waters: Well, [clears throat] again, Austin, to answer you direct and without trying to, in any way, withhold, I might only suggest that many, uh, considerations are presently, uh, being undertaken by various committees to amend certain of the-- uh, we operate particularly in the construction and demolition, uh, phase of our industry under the State Cold Rule number 23.

And there are committees presently studying certain amendments that they will submit to the board of, uh, standards and appeals for amendments to certain sections of it. And I think it might be time-consuming to go into them at the moment, but I might suggest to you, sir, that we are on top of it daily to make more improvement in the present safety codes.

[00:23:42] Dick Pyatt: We have about two minutes left, but I hope to get a very important question from Dick Stronsky now.

[00:23:46] Dick Stronsky: I don't know how important, but I was gonna ask Lewis Levine, uh, rather, I would assume that the project will work successfully and that the, uh, course-- the future will bring a-a nominal amount of publicity. Uh, Lewis Levine, do you feel like you would welcome public reaction and criticism, or should we say reception of the successes of the project?

[00:24:09] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: Oh, of course. I think that uh, one of the things we can all learn from is criticism. And if we, uh, do a good job, I'd like to be told that we're doing a job. If we're doing a lousy job, somebody ought to tell us about it.
[00:24:20] Dick Pyatt: Well, that was an important question, Dick. [laugh] Austin, do you have one?

[00:24:23] Austine Perlow: Yes, I'm- I'm concerned, Mr. Levine, over, uh, the outlook for rehabilitation. I understand that the federal budget is being slashed considerably and that there is at least a $5 million cut in the budget being allowed the Vocational Rehabilitation Administration. Is there anything that could possibly be done about this?

[00:24:43] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: Well, I don't know whether we're permitted to make a political plug on this radio program, but I'll say this that the House of Representatives for the first time since 1954 when Vocational Rehabilitation was set up, has cut the budget of Vocational Rehabilitation Administration by $5 million. The 16% cut in their budget. It's a sizable cut, and unless, uh, this money is restored by the Senate or in some manner, shape, or form worked out with the house, a goodly number of people will go without vocational rehabilitation. Considering right now, there are about 2,500,000 people in this country who are awaiting vocational rehabilitation services.

[00:25:21] Dick Pyatt: One last question, Austin.

[00:25:23] Austin H. Perlow: Would this budget cut directly affect your own project?

[00:25:27] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: It will not directly affect our project for this year, but I don't know what would happen next year. In the event, the vocational rehabilitation administration had only X number of dollars to work into all of the projects that they were now under-underway. And what would happen the following year? Right now, our budget is for the previous year, it comes outta previous year's grant, it does not come outta July 1st grant, this budget cut us from July fiscal year, beginning July 1st.

[00:25:51] Dick Pyatt: Mr. Levine, how soon will you be able to make, uh, an evaluation of the project?

[00:25:57] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: Well, it is my fun hope that we'll be able to do some preliminary evaluation by about January of this-- uh, this coming year, which would give us a little better than nine months of operation.

[00:26:08] Dick Pyatt: Well, our time is up now, but we look forward to January, and we hope you a lot of success.

[00:26:13] Mr. Lewis L. Levine: Thank you.

[00:26:13] Dick Pyatt: We want to thank our guests this evening, Mr. Lewis Levine, Director of the Rehabilitation Project of the New York City Central Labor Council, and the Assistant on the Community Service Committee, as well as the Rehabilitation Project, and Mr. Levine's assistant, Gerald R. Waters. Our thanks to this evening's panel of reporters from the Labor Press, Austin H. Perlow, Business and Labor editor of [unintelligible 00:26:37] Press and Managing Editor of 32B, Dick Stronsky, a publication put out by Building Service Employees International Union. Our thanks to you for your mail and suggestions, please continue to let us know what you're thinking, what you want on this program. The address is Labor Press Conference WNYZ New York seven. And now, speaking for the panel and myself, this is Dick Pyatt. Good evening. Until next week.

[00:27:11] [END OF AUDIO]

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