( ASSOCIATED PRESS )
George Devolder-Santos, capital investment manager and US representative-elect (R, NY-3) and Dan Goldman, US representative-elect (D, NY-10), formerly lead counsel for the impeachment investigation of Pres. Trump in 2019 and former assistant US attorney for the Southern District of NY are two of the brand-new members of Congress from our area. First, George Devolder-Santos re-introduces himself to listeners and talks about his priorities, then Dan Goldman does the same.
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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We're inviting the newly elected members of our local congressional delegation to come on briefly and say what they hope to accomplish in the People's House in Washington, now outside the heat of their competitive campaigns. Today, we have two new members for just a few minutes each, one Democrat, Dan Goldman from parts of Brooklyn and Manhattan, and one Republican George Santos from parts of Long Island in Northeast Queens.
Congressman-elect Santos joins us first. He worked previously in the finance sector as a capital market specialist. I think we'll confirm this with him. He'll be the only gay Republican in Congress. This third congressional district is the one that Tom Swasey used to represent before he left to run for governor. Though the district lines were changed a little bit, it was still a district that Joe Biden won by nine points in 2020. The race between Santos and Democrat Robert Zimmerman was considered a toss-up by the pros, partly for that reason, but Santos won by eight points. Congressman-elect, thanks for a few minutes today. Welcome back to WNYC and congratulations.
George Santos: Oh, thank you very much, Brian, for having me.
Brian Lehrer: How does it feel being called Congressman-elect?
George Santos: Well, you know what? It's a labor of four years of hard work and determination to bring a specific type of representation to Washington D.C. and it was a labor of a community. It took a village and a lot of people to work hard for it. It feels great, actually, and it's very humbling to have this awesome responsibility and honor.
Brian Lehrer: I think the media get something wrong frequently since election day. They sometimes call Nicole Malliotakis New York City's only Republican in Congress, but your district includes parts of Northeast Queens. I recently told someone I know from that part of Queens that they now have a Republican congressman, and they were shocked because it's been a long time. Why do you think you won in a district that went for Biden by nine points?
George Santos: Well, look, I ran a campaign, unlike my opponents who spent the entire campaign talking about me, slandering me. I spent my entire campaign talking directly to the public, directly about issues. Look, Joe Biden came into this race, Hillary Clinton came into my race, they all helped my opponent. Meanwhile, I was seeking out the support and endorsement of the people of law enforcement, of the rank and file, the real people who actually vote for you.
I didn't make this about big celebrity names, I didn't seek any big national endorsements. I received some endorsements from my colleagues in Congress and leadership. Outside from that, I didn't go seeking out for presidential endorsements or big senatorial endorsements.
It was really about sticking to the message, what we're experiencing in our country today, record inflation, crime is out of control in our part of the state and in our part of the country. The cost of energy put out by both PSEG Long Island and National Grid, it's 64% increase. These are real issues that keep people up at night. I just kept my entire campaign about talking to the people because I wanted to talk about things that I too was experiencing as an American citizen.
I wanted to make sure that the entire campaign was about them. I guess the people resonated with it and they saw, at the end, that I had their interests in mind and I'm not a self-serving individual who wants to just promote myself.
Brian Lehrer: Your various identities as a gay, son of Latino and Jewish migrants, and a CUNY grad would often lead people in the Democratic Party. Why did you wind up as a Republican, and what defines your conservative or Republican values?
George Santos: I'm a fiscal conservative, I'm socially moderate. Obviously, I'm a gay married man. I do believe in fiscal conservative values, and I do believe that we have an obligation to leave a better country for the next generation. I don't think that the Democrat Party is representative of that. Unfortunately, they might be very good on social issues, but I don't think it's sustainable to keep the country going forward on the cases they're going.
Even when you're talking on social issues, I'm not going to even say that anybody's good or bad. I just think everything in moderation needs to be taken. Whenever you're pushing extremism, either on the left or on the right, we're failing. I think that we need to lead from common sense and common sense resonates with me.
I've always been a registered Republican. The one thing that I'm proud of is that I can prove that there is diversity of thought in this country left. Just because you're gay does not mean you have to be a Democrat. I'm very proud to be able to represent people who think much like me and have a similar lifestyle. It's also good to show to people that, other than popular belief in what the mainstream media likes to put out there that there is no place for gay people in the Republican Party, that's not true.
I've never suffered any kind of discrimination or negative rhetoric from my party. Matter of fact, I've always been resoundingly well-welcomed and well-represented in the party. I think, again, it's an honor of a lifetime to be able to represent the people in Congress.
I look very much forward to doing that and just to bring you over that common sense voice, transparency, accountability. These are things that Americans are looking for now. They want people held accountable, they want transparency, they want accountability from Congress on top of good governance, and we need to deliver good governance in this next congress and deliver an agenda that's going to be good for the people.
Brian Lehrer: Just as a follow-up on what you were saying about identity and moderation, after the Colorado Springs gay bar massacre this weekend, if it turns out to be a hate crime, you know that many LGBTQ Americans will place part of the blame on Republican rhetoric like accusing educators of grooming kids if they're given a chance to discuss their gay parents and things like that. Do you perceive some of your fellow elected Republicans as pandering to anti-LGBTQ hate?
George Santos: Look, I don't speak for people, all individual actions. All I can say is that we shouldn't be divided on what happened in Colorado. This shouldn't be a discussion of right or left or Republican or Democrat. This is a discussion of right or wrong and what happened there was wrong. Any kind of hate crime is unacceptable, whether it's to the African American community, the Asian American community, gays and lesbian community.
This is an issue of hate. We have no place for hate in our country and we need to weed out hate out of our country. We can say, regrettably so, that there is hate on both sides of the political spectrum. We cannot tolerate that. I want to go to Washington D.C. and I'm going to Washington D.C. to make sure that we end this hateful, divisive rhetoric that's taking place in Congress.
We need to lead by example out of Washington, and we need to show the American people that there is no hate between our parties. We have a difference of opinions on how we should govern but we're not mortal enemies, Republicans and Democrats. We're all American citizens who want the best for our country.
Brian Lehrer: That goes to the polarization in the country generally. Just on this specific issue, would you say that some of your fellow elected Republicans are pandering to anti-LGBTQ hate much more than Democrats and want to call them out specifically for that?
George Santos: Would you ask the same question to the Democrats regarding anti-semitism and members of Congress that are openly anti-semitic?
Brian Lehrer: Absolutely.
George Santos: Well, that's my point. The question at point is I don't know, and I can't speak for other people's actions or behaviors, I can speak for my own. I condemn what happened in Colorado, just much like at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando in 2016, which I happen to, at the time, have people that work for me in the club. My company, at the time, we lost four employees that work that were at Pulse nightclub.
This is a deja vu moment for me, not something that is really good even going over because it just brings back such tragic memories. Like I said, I just want to weed out the hate out of our country in our society. There is no place for hate in the United States of America.
Brian Lehrer: Moving on from that, what kinds of policy priorities do you expect to focus on now that you've been elected to Congress? I'm curious, maybe the listeners in the district would like to know what committees would you ideally like to join?
George Santos: Well, look, I have my own focus going into Congress. Policy-wise, I think we need to go back into being closer to energy independent nation where we can produce more natural resources here in our country to lower the burden on the American people. I'm looking for committee assignments such as financial services based on my background and expertise where I can really help end loopholes and reduce regulations to allow ingenuity and, obviously, growth in our society so that we can stimulate growth and create more jobs that would help the economy a great deal today. On top of that, I also want to go there to hold big companies and monopolies such as FTX accountable, to make sure that another FTX doesn't happen. We're moving into this digital currency era where these things are going to become more often. Now, we need to make sure that we're prepared, well-equipped, and we're regulating this industry appropriately. It'd be an honor of a lifetime to serve under Congressman Patrick McHenry. He's very bright individual and he's going to be heading the Financial Services Committee.
Brian Lehrer: Financial Services Committee. That's really interesting. I was going to ask you, as an aside, as a capital market specialist, if you have any thought on whether crypto is dying or whether Congress needs to act on it in any specific ways. You just mentioned antitrust, I guess, but what do you think about the crypto market generally?
George Santos: Look, personally, I'm a traditional private equity individual and I'm open over to new things. Crypto is not my specialty but the one thing is that we need to regulate it. We need to take it serious because it's here to stay. Now we're facing a Bernie Madoff likewise in size event with FTX. We need to investigate it. We need to understand what happened, learn to trigger warnings, and make sure that we can protect American investors and people in the marketplace moving forward.
This is just something we cannot ignore anymore. It's here and it's here to stay. Whether it's dying or not, I don't know about that, Brian, but I know it's here to stay and it's going nowhere. As far as committee assignments and other committee assignments, that's very interesting to me would be foreign affairs granted my background. The district I represent being highly intensively immigrant-focused, I think there's a lot of good opportunities for me to do some good work given the diversity of the nature of my cultural background as well.
Brian Lehrer: For people who don't know, you have family originally from Ukraine. You have family originally from Brazil. A very interesting background in that respect. We're almost out of time. Two quick things. One, I meant to ask you before, when we were talking about gay rights issues, will you be the only gay Republican in Congress? I can't find another one right now. I know there have been some in the past, but I'm not sure. Do you know?
George Santos: I'm the first-ever openly gay Republican elected to Congress. There have been two other members who were reelected after they were forcibly outed and there was one who came out after he left office. I will be the only gay member of Congress on the Republican side. Regrettably, nobody has-- not that I ran on that, nor that I care to be recognized but it was very frustrating the other day when I saw one of these organizations who invited all the new incoming members of the gay lesbian community, go to their, "Oh, look at all the new members of the gay and lesbian community in the 118 Congress."
Well, I never got that invite. There's a lot of hypocrisy that goes on with that too in Washington D.C.
Brian Lehrer: Last question. How will you define success after this two-year term in Congress?
George Santos: If I can bring back the people of my district a little bit of peace of mind, whether it's through public safety and appropriating US federal tax dollars to local law enforcement and the NYPD so they can bring back their plainclothes units to get illegal guns off the streets and break up organized crime, or whether it's through passing legislation to reduce the cost of energy so that people don't have to ration their heating bill in the winter.
I will find a great deal of pride in doing that because life needs to be a little bit less complicated and a little bit more prosperous in this country, not the latter. That would be a very large accomplishment for me. I look very much forward to being able to do that along with delivering transparency and resolve to many issues and many answers that are left unanswered after the last two years of this pandemic time that we've been living in.
There's a lot that we need to do, but I find a great deal of success if I can deliver on those few things.
Brian Lehrer: Republican George Santos, newly elected from Northeast Queens and mostly northern parts of Nassau County, the Third Congressional District. Congratulations one more time. Good luck in Congress. We hope to keep the dialogue going throughout the two years.
George Santos: Thank you, Brian. Have a great one.
Brian Lehrer: This is WNYC FM, HD, and AM, New York, WNJT FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are a New York and New Jersey Public Radio, at eleven o'clock. We move from newly elected Republican, George Santos, to newly elected Democrat Dan Goldman for a few minutes as well. Newly elected from Lower Manhattan and nearby Brooklyn. His most well-known previous work was as lead counsel for the House Democrats in the first Trump impeachment. Congressman-Elect, welcome back to WNYC, and congratulations to you.
Dan Goldman: Thanks so much for having me, Brian. It's great to be here again.
Brian Lehrer: Your real win in your district, I think it's fair to say, was in the primary, that very competitive 10th district primary with so many prominent Democrats in that race because no Republican would be competitive there. No mystery there for you in the November election. How does it feel to be called congressman-elect?
Dan Goldman: It feels good, and mostly it feels like a significant responsibility and a great privilege to be able to represent New York City. As I've traveled around since the primary through the district, it is quite clear that there are a lot of people that are hurting and in serious need in our city. There are significant problems related to housing, related to mental health, related to crime, related to transportation, you name it.
I am certainly humbled as I go in there recognizing the obligations and responsibility that I carry with me going down to Washington.
Brian Lehrer: You happen to be here on the first business day since another special counsel was named to investigate Donald Trump again, this time over the classified documents in January 6 cases. With your background in doing that thing, as I said, representing House Democrats in the first Trump impeachment, do you support that move by Attorney General Garland?
Dan Goldman: Look, I don't think he had to do it. I think those investigations have been ongoing for quite some time and Merrick Garland was in part nominated and confirmed because he is apolitical, but I think in keeping with his desire to take any potential appearance of politicization out of the process, he went ahead and did it. I don't think it will have a material impact on those investigations because the same prosecutors who are doing the day-to-day investigating will continue to work on them.
It'll just give an extra step of remove from the Biden administration so that there is absolutely no basis for any complaints which we will undoubtedly hear from Donald Trump and the Republicans that this is a politicized investigation. It is not. It started long before Donald Trump announced his run for presidency. In fact, Donald Trump is running for president, in my view, largely because it's his best criminal defense strategy.
Brian Lehrer: Do you think, though, that this just helps Trump politically because it gives him another grievance to rally Republicans around him on? You saw what was happening in the media after the election when so many election deniers who Trump had endorsed lost and the Wall Street Journal was writing him off. Fox News was largely writing him off. A lot of the Republicans who are elected officials were writing him off as a presidential candidate and saying, "It's time to move on." Now, a lot of those same people are rallying behind him and saying, "Oh, this politicizes the Justice Department, not depoliticizes it."
Strategically, not that the Attorney General is thinking in terms of politics, but for you as a Democratic party politician now, does this actually help Trump unnecessarily?
Dan Goldman: I have no idea why anyone would say that this is politicizing these investigations anymore. Perhaps it is the first move and therefore they're waiting to cry politicization because that is, of course, what their only defense is, even though it has no merit. If there were no special counsel and Donald Trump were to be indicted by the Department of Justice, you can be sure that he would cry, "This is just the Biden Administration's effort to remove me from the ballot."
They're just moving up the timeframe on that argument to the special counsel, but it would have no merit down the road. It has even less merit or plausibility right now. It makes no sense to me.
Brian Lehrer: Do you happen to know Jack Smith, by the way, the guy who was named as special counsel, whose most recent claim to fame seems to be prosecuting war crimes at the Hague against Serbian leaders from the war crimes allegedly committed by them? Do you happen to know Jack Smith from your time in the law?
Dan Goldman: I do not know him personally, but I know him by reputation, which is a sterling reputation, someone who is no-nonsense, completely apolitical. I think his most relevant experience to this case was not the war crimes tribunal, but rather when he headed up the public integrity section of the Department of Justice for five years, I believe it was 2010 to 2015. He's a lifelong prosecutor. I think he's a dogged prosecutor and I think perhaps most importantly for this situation, he will conduct these investigations with no political influence and without fear or favor, and he'll follow the facts of the law, which is all we can hope that any prosecutor does in this country that is based on the rule of law.
Brian Lehrer: You ran, I think it's fair to say, in the Democratic primary, that was your main victory. Largely on your ability to counter Trump and go after Trump and that experience that you had as lead counsel to the House Democrats in the first impeachment. That doesn't make law or policy or put food on people's plates or tame inflation. What kinds of policy priorities do you expect to focus on, and what committees would you ideally like to join?
Dan Goldman: Brian, I think, in some ways, my campaign foreshadowed not only what happened in the November election, but what we're already seeing from the House Republicans whose first moves once they established that they're going to win the majority, is to announce broad overreaching, unfounded investigations into Joe Biden's family, into the investigators, into the FBI.
The list goes on, and including potentially impeaching either secretary Mayorkas or even Joe Biden, because they disagree with policies. That is going to be front and center from the Republican agenda when they're in the majority. I look forward to being there to be a bulwark against those overreaching and baseless investigations and using my experience to make sure that the facts come out.
To that end, I do hope to be on some of the investigative committees, to be able to use the skills and experience I have from 10 years as a prosecutor and then leading the impeachment investigation. I think both of those experiences will be valuable in showing the American people that these are completely politicized bogus investigations that are designed just to help Donald Trump's campaign in 2024 and nothing else.
Brian Lehrer: You expect one of your main roles in Congress, it sounds like, in the Democratic minority, as it will be, to play defense against investigations that the Republican majority will launch. Maybe that's how we should expect to see your name in the news in the next two years, but not so much on policy having to do with inflation policy, having to do with crime, policy having to do with other things?
Dan Goldman: Oh, no. I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Certainly, I hope to be put in a position where I can use my skills and experience to push back on these investigations. I will be dogged in representing the underserved communities in my district, in particular in using whatever abilities that we have in the minority to bring accountability, to bring transparency, and to try to improve some of the really pressing issues that we have in New York City and in this district.
I'll be a strong advocate for more housing, better housing, improved housing. I will certainly be trying to focus on reducing crime in the city, which is clearly a significant problem that everybody recognizes. As Democrats in the aftermath of this most recent election, I think what is clear is that we are the party of ideas and solutions and the Republicans are the party of fear and hate.
The radicalization of young people to commit these heinous hate crimes, like we saw this past weekend in Colorado Springs, like we saw in Buffalo, like we've seen all over the country over the last decade is just yet another example of why we need to be promoting gun safety. We need to be expanding individual rights of all Americans. I'll be working day and night to try to do that.
Brian Lehrer: The Democratic Party did lose seats in the house as obviously you know, and especially in New York in some districts pretty close to yours. Why do you think that was?
Dan Goldman: I'm not exactly sure, Brian. I think we need to do a real significant after-action analysis to figure out what did go wrong for Democrats in New York, especially when so much went right for Democrats around the rest of the country. We're the outlier, New York is, when you look at Pennsylvania and Michigan and other states in the western part of the country where Democrats way overachieved expectations.
We're going to have to do, as a Democratic Party in New York, a full evaluation analysis of why we were so different and we're going to have to course-correct and make sure that we solve for the problems that are uncovered from this past cycle and make sure that it doesn't happen again. Make sure that the New Yorkers recognize that we really are-- the Democratic Party is the party of ideas and results and solutions, and that if people want things to improve, we're the ones who can do it.
Brian Lehrer: What course correction were you just referring to, if you have anything in mind? You may have heard your new Republican colleague George Santos, another guest in this series, we're inviting the newly elected members of both parties from our area. He was saying he thinks he won in a Biden district, a district that went easily for Biden, that he won as a Republican member of Congress because he was speaking more to the people's practical needs than his Democratic opponent. Would you put it anything like that?
Dan Goldman: I really don't know. I think we're going to have to do a deeper dive. That sounds like a superficial explanation, but I'm not sure that it's based on data and I'm not sure that it's really based on a complete analysis of what transpired not only in his district, but around the state.
That's something that Democratic Party leaders are going to have to do to make sure that we really do understand exactly what happened. We're going to have to analyze the data, we're going to have to see what was different about campaigns this cycle than previous cycles. There's going to have to be a deep analysis before we can reach any conclusions.
Brian Lehrer: Last question. How would you define success after these coming two years in Congress for yourself?
Dan Goldman: I think it's going to be a combination of standing up and delivering for the communities who've been ignored and left behind, and also standing up for our democracy and against the far right overreaching investigations and politicization of our process. We need to be out there making sure that people feel represented on the micro level and the day-to-day level.
Making sure that their elected representatives are providing solutions and results. We also need to make sure that we continue to have a democracy now that we know that Donald Trump who tried to subvert our democracy in 2020 is going to run again, and he's going to use the House Republicans as a vehicle towards his reelection. I look forward to being a bulwark against that as well.
Brian Lehrer: Dan Goldman, newly elected from New York's 10th Congressional District covering Lower Manhattan and parts of nearby Brooklyn. Thanks for coming on with us. Good luck over these two years. We look forward to having you on as they proceed.
Dan Goldman: Thank you very much, Brian. Great to be with you as always.
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