Councilmember Ayala on Subway Homelessness, Overdose Prevention Centers, and Serving a 'Divided' Bronx

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Now, we continue our year-long series 51 Councilmembers in 52 Weeks. We're hosting every New York City council member, one per week, neighborhood by neighborhood, covering the whole city in this year when a majority of the council is new and so is the mayor, of course, and a majority of the council is female, for the first time ever. This is Week 8. We welcome the member from District 8, Diana Ayala. District 8 covers most of East Harlem, plus the Mott Haven, Highbridge, Concourse, Longwood, and Port Morris sections of the Bronx.

Councilmember Ayala's own story is very New York in both hardships and determination. Her city council bio page says her family came here from Puerto Rico when she was a child. She lived in public housing. Spent two stretches in a homeless shelter. When she was pregnant, the father of her child was killed in what Ayala calls a senseless shooting.

She has also experienced domestic violence, but she persevered and went to Bronx Community College. Worked in advocacy and social services, and rose up to be Deputy Chief of Staff to City Council Speaker, Melissa Mark-Viverito. Now, she's the Deputy Speaker herself. Let's see what her constituents are contacting her about, what she thinks about Mayor Adams so far, and what item, from her district, she brought for show and tell, as we're inviting all the members to bring one. Councilmember Ayala, thanks for joining the 51 Councilmembers in 52 Weeks series. Welcome to WNYC today.

Diana Ayala: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

Brian: Let me begin on some news. One of your big issues, which is housing, Mayor Adams's new push to get homeless people out of the subway was scheduled to begin yesterday. Here's a minute and a half of the Mayor speaking last week,

Mayor Adams: The system is not made to be housing, it's made to be transportation. We have to return back to that basic philosophy. If someone is in physical, emotional distress, we can't leave them on the train, for their own safety and the safety of others, that's a betrayal. We must intervene and get help. In addition to these teams, New Yorkers will see an increased presence of NYPD in trains and on stations to ensure that we are keeping the quality of life that we expect. Officers will enforce key elements of the MTA and New York City Transit Authority rules.

There are rules to ride in the system. Andy Byford, the former head of the system, when he came here and did a tour, he says, "Y'all let people sleep on your trains? You let people live on your train? What is that about?" We got so used to being dysfunctional that it became the normality. Well, I'm not a dysfunctional mayor and I don't pretend that a problem doesn't exist. We identify, we fix problems, we get stuff done. That's what my administration is going to be about. We enforce these elements and these rules. No more smoking. No more doing drugs. No more sleeping. No more doing barbecues on the subway system. No more just doing whatever you want. No, those days are over.

Brian: Mayor Adams last week. Councilmember Ayala, what do you think about the policy, and what do you think about his tone and the language there?

Diana: I agree that we all have a shared responsibility to ensure that subway riders feel safe. I acknowledge that that hasn't been the case for some time now, but I think that we need to be really, really careful in further stigmatizing homeless individuals in that way. Because the reality is that, for the most part, many of them are not violent individuals. They're sleeping in the train because they don't feel safe in the current shelter system.

We have a dual problem and we have to address them both at the same time. I'm hopeful. I think that his language has toned down a little bit in the last couple of days and I think that that's important because we definitely do not want to stigmatized homeless folks.

Brian: Did you see this policy in action yet at any of the subway stops in your district? Yesterday was supposed to be the start of it.

Diana: No, no, no. It hasn't started out. I didn't see any activity in East Harlem or in the South Bronx. I understand that they were prioritizing certain subway stations, I guess, that were a little bit more problematic, but even then, all of the reporting that I saw, signaled that there was some shortage in staffing and staff was supposed to be, I guess, at the tail end of the subway ride to ensure, but in some cases, there weren't any staffers available.

I'm sure this is going to take time, but this is-- I think that, for me, when I walk into the train station and I see people sleeping there, I go, "Wow. Why would anybody want to sleep in the train station?" Having knowing people with lived experience in the homeless shelter system, specifically in the singles where you're sharing a common space and are the victim of crime, oftentimes assaulted, we need to address those issues because if we don't address those issues, we're only going to be moving the problem from below ground to above ground.

I'm not sure if you remember this, but during the pandemic, when the governor shut down the subway stations during the evening hours, parts of my district, you couldn't even walk on it. 125th Street, it was horrible. You had to literally step over bodies because we just moved the problem from one place to the other because we're not really addressing the root cause of homelessness and mental illness. Our mental illness system is completely broken in New York City.

This is a larger problem. I'm always supportive of trying to figure out the best alternative. I plan to be, hopefully, a partner in this work, through the General Welfare Committee, but it's not as easy as it sounds.

Brian: No. Nobody thinks it's easy. As someone who has experienced homelessness yourself in the shelter system, why do you think people are choosing, in some substantial numbers, the subway as a place to sleep over the shelters that are available to them, and how would we fix it?

Diana: I will share and actually I share this story quite often with permission, obviously. I have a brother who has mental health issues. He suffers from serious mental health issues. He's been in and out of shelter for quite some time now. Helping him, I'm horrified at what I've seen personally. He feels unsafe and oftentimes he sleeps in the street because he doesn't want to-- From stories that I hear from him and others like him, there are still weapons that are making their way into these shelter settings and a lot of altercations because obviously, we also have a mental health component here and people get into arguments over space and property.

We saw what happened. It doesn't happen as frequently, thank goodness, but we've seen people get seriously injured in the shelter system. People don't feel safe. They feel safer in a public space where there are others around and nobody bothers them. That's how we ended up with this issue with people sleeping under the Metro-North on 42nd Street. This is a citywide problem.

Brian: Does there need to be more of a police presence in homeless shelters? That always cuts both ways. Anything else to make them more secure?

Diana: I believe that there should be some level of security, obviously. I think we have to do better of ensuring that weapons are not making their way into the shelter system, but a lot of this is rooted on the mental health of a lot of-- Especially in the single shelters, we're not necessarily addressing it. I'll come back to my brother. I had him in a shelter for people with mental illness and I realized, at some point, that he was becoming very, very, very manic.

I called and I said, "Are you guys seeing what I'm seeing? I'm a little concerned." They said, "Well, no, no, no, he seems fine." I said, "Are you kidding me? I've been watching him for days. He's all over social media. His behavior is quite alarming." They're like-- The reason I worry, I worry because he goes on into the street and he's behaving erratically, and oftentimes, he's the victim of crime. People will assault him. I called and I'm like, "Well, what are we doing? What is the game plan? Are we connecting him to a mental health worker?" "Well, he doesn't have a mental health worker now." "Well, why not?" "Well, he has to take the initiative and he has to do that for himself." I'm like, "Well, isn't that the equivalent of asking a child to follow up on these tasks?" It's impossible. There's no way that, in his state of mind, he's going to be able to get from point A to point B on his own. I always just assumed that, in these type of shelter settings, where we are offering mental health services, that that was what we were offering. In reality, that's not the case.

We have social workers. Should the person avail themselves, should they want it, we have mental health providers on-site if the person wants to speak to them, but it's not mandatory. We have serious, serious challenges that need to be addressed in order to ensure that people with mental illness are actually receiving care.

Brian Lehrer: Let's take a phone call for City Councilmember Diana Ayala of East Harlem in the South Bronx. TK in the Bronx, you're on WNYC. Hi, TK.

TK: Good morning, Brian. I got a friend that was homeless two years ago. She doesn't have kids. She ended up in one of those SROs in the Bronx, not too far from-- What's that place over there where they do the food and everything that goes all around the city?

Diana Ayala: The pantry?

TK: It's over there in the Bronx. Anyway, she got attacked by one of the people that was staying in the apartment. It was a two-bedroom apartment. I helped her move in the first day. It was totally disgusting. It was so nasty. It was unbelievable that it was actually indoors. I thought it was outside. She ended up getting attacked within the second week, by the person who was staying there. She ended up in the hospital. She had 38 stitches from the woman cutting her. This was in an SRO.

I don't know what's going on, but what I do know is, it's not safe for people that don't have families. The family shelter, you at least get like an apartment by yourself. You might be in a whole unit with a whole bunch of people, but once you lock that door, you're in the apartment by yourself. As a single person, you're thrown in the mix with a bunch of, who knows what? Some are normal, some are not. Some are sane, some are not. It's bad. You guys have been knowing it's been bad.

Brian Lehrer: Councilmember, talk to TK.

Diana Ayala: Absolutely. I completely agree with everything that you're saying. I'm the new chair of the General Welfare Committee at the City Council. It's one of the things that I am going to be diving into quite often because I'm very intrigued by the way that we're providing services, where the gaps exist, and how we can rectify some of these issues. I'm hopeful. Brian, we have a new administration, we have a new commissioner.

Hopefully, we're able to make a dent into this problem. I don't know if you heard, in the beginning, this is something that is very familiar to me on a personal level. I think that that is why it's important to have people in government that have these lived experiences because I hadn't read about it in a book, I'm not just sympathetic to it, I completely understand it because I've lived that, it's been my life experience.

TK: I have one question, though. Why do you all have to pay? I heard the landlord was getting astronomical money for that apartment. Literally, it was two to three times more than regular rent. I'm trying to understand, if y'all could pay that for people that's moving in and out transiently, why not put somebody in there permanently and pay a realistic rent?

Diana Ayala: I agree. A lot of it is because of the city and state laws that prohibit us from being able to offer that as an option. We have worked to enhance certain vouchers in the city by increasing the rates, but it's difficult. The reason that we're using-- Well, not we because I'm not part of that process, but that the city uses those apartments, is because we have a legal responsibility to house anybody that's asking to be housed. Anyone that's this homeless that walks into the Park Center has to be housed.

Oftentimes, we get a lot of pushback from communities about building shelters. There's not enough capacity to really accommodate the need at this point. At some point, the city started to use those apartments as options. You're absolutely right, if we use all that funding and created some Section VIII model type program, then it would actually be a cost-saving for both the city and the state.

Brian Lehrer: TK, keep calling us. Thank you very much, important call. Here's a little breaking news. NPR reporting that the three white men convicted of murdering Ahmaud Arbery have additionally been found guilty now of federal hate crimes after jurors this morning unanimously agreed Arbery was targeted because he was Black. Those three white men in Georgia already convicted of killing Ahmaud Arbery, now in the federal hate crimes trial, it's been determined by a jury that they did it because he was Black. We'll get more on the news with Kerry Nolan coming up in a little while.

We continue now with City Councilmember Diana Ayala from East Harlem in the South Bronx. Edition number eight of our series this year 51 Councilmembers in 52 Weeks where we're interviewing all 51 New York City Council members, in this year when a majority of them are new. Diane Ayala, in her second term in City Council,.Second and last because of the two terms limit law. You're just in your second term and you're already a veteran. There you are.

Diana Ayala: We run once more.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, you can run once more?

Diana Ayala: Because this is the second term, every 20 years or so, because of the census, our second term is split into two. In 2023, we'll run again for the last term.

Brian Lehrer: Two years instead of four-year term. Well, let's take a step back. Let me ask you to describe your district for people in the rest of our area, East Harlem and the Mott Haven, Highbridge, Concourse, Longwood and Port Morris sections of the Bronx. Who lives there demographically speaking? What would you say is the top reason that people from your district, your constituents, contact your office?

Diana Ayala: That is a lot. I represent the best district and the city council. I split between two boroughs, as you mentioned. Primarily still heavily Latino district with a growing Asian community, ironically enough. As the lower East Side continues to get more and more expensive, we've seen a migration of specifically primarily Chinese elders moving uptown, which has been really interesting and fascinating. We're really excited to have them here.

I also represent a very diverse district. East Harlem part of the district is the most heavily saturated in public housing, yet we have a variety of income bands mixes in East Harlem. When we're looking at housing, we have affordable homeownership opportunities, we have mixed-income housing, we have market-rate housing. In the South Bronx, I think that it's still in the poorest congressional district, and you can feel that, you can see it in the way that services are provided. You look into community centers, they're very dilapidated, there aren't enough resources to go around, there are huge, huge income disparities, and a great need to address the food insecurity issues.

During the pandemic, there were lines everywhere. I will tell you that. Going into the South Bronx, in every single corner, there was a line that wrapped around blocks and blocks. That tells a story of what the situation is in that community. We have some of the highest rates of homelessness in the Bronx. We have some of the highest rates of job loss in the Bronx. There's so much work that has to be done. Highbridge is probably my baby. I lived in Highbridge. When I emancipated myself, my first apartment was in the Highbridge area of the Bronx. It's unfortunate because it's such a lovely little community that has been oversaturated with shelters and programs and services.

I want to be very clear, I'm not anti-shelter. I obviously have benefited from the opportunity to be able to be in shelter when I needed that service, but I think that when you oversaturate a community with just social services, with those type of all of the programs, and you're not balancing that out with additional resources, that is a disservice to the community. During the height of the pandemic, you couldn't even find a food pantry up there. The schools were closed. We had to create a makeshift pantry to ensure that we were bringing food into that community. I think it's like the lost forgotten child in the city. I don't know what'll happen with redistricting, but I absolutely love that community because you walk through those streets and people were just so humble and so loving. On top of all of the things and all of the issues that they have to face every single day, they're still happy and that really makes my heart swell.

It's a very big district. I was fortunate enough to work for my predecessor and so I knew it very well. I have longstanding relationships with the individuals that represent resident association leadership CECs, that have become family. That allows me to feel present and to be present in a district that's so divided because the Bronx part of it is like four demographics. You have the Mott Haven, and then you have Highbridge, but then we also have the West Concourse. Then we have a little bit more of an affluent community moving in. Then I have Longwood, which is like 10 blocks.

There's a lot there but I love it. I love working in this district. I would say that people call my office. The most complaints that we get are primarily public housing-related. The state of housing stock is pretty serious, very, very dilapidated. I think sanitation would probably come in second. The streets are filthy. We have rats everywhere. I almost got run over by a rat just the other day coming home in front of my own building.

It's definitely something that I'm aware of, and the opioid crisis. We have syringe litter everywhere. It's a crisis that has hit my district very aggressively and we've been working on that. I don't know if you've heard that the city opened the two. Over those prevention sites, one of them is just a block or two out of the way in my district, it's actually in Kristen.

Brian Lehrer: In East Harlem, right? Yes, we did a segment on that.

Diana Ayala: Yes. I really appreciate the motto. A lot of people were like, "Well, why?" I can't stop somebody from using. I can talk to them until I'm blue in the face, but people want to have to want to be treated. They have to want that recovery. In the interim, they're using publicly, they're using in front of children. I have a school in East Harlem where the parks department is picking up anywhere between 30 to 50 syringes daily.

This is in a public space where children play. This shouldn't be this way. At least, with the overdose prevention centers, we have an ability to bring those individuals indoors, but also connect them to those services that they need so that they could potentially become clean one day when they're ready. That takes time. People don't understand addiction in that way.

I get many, many, many complaints which we are working on different solutions to try to address specifically this syringe literal issue. I have spoken to state representatives about possibly-- In the city, it's expanding that service, because I think that we won't really know how useful it can be until we replicate it citywide.

Brian Lehrer: This is WNYC FM HD and AM New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River, We are a New York, and New Jersey public radio. As we finish up with East Harlem and South Bronx city Councilmember Diana Ayala.

First of all, thank you for painting such a rich portrait of your district and the issues facing some of the people there. I know you got to go, but to end on a lighter note, we've been inviting every council member, as you know, to bring a virtual show and tell item for this series. Obviously, it's radio, so you have to tell more than show. What did you decide to bring for show and tell? I know we're at a time.

Diana Ayala: Well, I'm really excited to announce that we're going to be doing two code street namings in East Harlem before the end of summer. One for Hector Camacho and Cicely Tyson, who both were raised in East Harlem.

Brian Lehrer: You want to say one quick thing about what either of them mean to you or to the neighborhood?

Diana Ayala: Yes, I think Hector Camacho was a person that lived with a lot of adversity. He was rough and tumble. I think that he really speaks to a lot of young New Yorkers and specifically the young kids in my community. His story was tough. It wasn't always a good story, but I think that it's the reality of the day to day in communities like mine, and being able to show how he was able to beat that adversity, how he was able to continue to push forward is an inspiring story that needs to be told.

Brian Lehrer: Councilmember and Deputy City Council Speaker Diana Ayala, guest number eight in our series 51 Councilmembers in 52 weeks. Guest number eight, representing District 8. Next week it's on to District 9. Councilmember, thank you so very much.

Diana Ayala: Thank you so much. Have a good day.

 

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