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Kousha Navidar: This is All Of It. I'm Kousha Navidar in for Alison Stewart. In the documentary, Unseen, Pedro works towards his dream of becoming a social worker. With the help of Tyler, his service dog, Pedro takes classes at a local university and works at a therapist's office helping other undocumented people like himself navigate the challenges of living and working in the US, but as an undocumented blind person, Pedro faces his own set of obstacles. He grapples with his noble desire to help others while searching for belonging and healing in his own life.

Pedro's story was captured intimately by his longtime friend and filmmaker, Set Hernandez. As a fellow undocumented immigrant, Set follows Pedro with the camera, tracing his life for over six years. What culminates is a touching slice of life story that adds a refreshing and nuanced perspective into the immigrant experience. The documentary makes its broadcast premiere tonight at 10:00 PM Eastern on PBS. With me now to talk about the film Unseen is the director, Set Hernandez. Hi, Set. Thanks for joining us.

Set Hernandez: I am so humbled to be here. Thanks for having me, Kousha.

Kousha Navidar: It's an absolute pleasure to have you here. The documentary I watched it last night, it was moving to say the least. One thing that stuck out to me was six years with the camera, with Pedro. Six years is a while. Start at the beginning. How did you and Pedro meet and why did you want to start capturing his story?

Set Hernandez: My background was in community organizing and in the immigrant youth movement that I was a part of at the time, we rarely talked about the intersectional experiences of immigrants beyond just being an immigrant. When I met Pedro, it became an opportunity or maybe even a recognition that we rarely, if ever, at all, talk about the experiences of people who also have disabilities in the immigrant community.

When I met Pedro, I was helping to organize a program for undocumented young adults who were seeking professional opportunities and Pedro was in our program supporting undocumented immigrants having access to healthcare, which is a big thing underlying theme also that emerges in the film. In the beginning, I think so much of what I wanted to do was around advocacy and lifting up Pedro's journey through the film. As you noted, the film took about six years to make, many more years longer than originally anticipated. In the course of doing that, the film actually pivoted from advocacy but more to understanding who Pedro is as a human being and what the process of filmmaking is at large.

Kousha Navidar: What was the moment when you decided, okay, this is going to take six years and longer than originally anticipated?

Set Hernandez: Like you mentioned, I myself am also undocumented and so many of the grant-making opportunities for filmmakers require citizenship or permanent residency for a filmmaker to be eligible. Part of the world reason it took so long to make the film is because I couldn't apply for funding or resources. Sometimes I can't even look through the portal because the first page of the application requires you to be able to answer whether you qualify for the program or not.

All that to say, I feel like the obstacles that made our film germinate for a much longer time, ultimately ended up being its own secret weapon also, because I think the fact that that I was able to marinate in my relationship with Pedro much longer allowed me to better understand who he is as a person and what kind of film ultimately we need to make to uplift the story.

Kousha Navidar: Talking about who Pedro is as a person, I think, is a great way of describing what the film is at its core, and I want to talk about a scene in the film that to me feels like the core of that story. There's this frank conversation that you and Pedro have about being a "good immigrant." Let's take a listen.

Set Hernandez: I always feel so confused because there's so many people from our community that are just as worthy of opportunities and supports, but for some reason, I couldn't help but feel that of all these people, why me? I don't know if any of this resonates for you.

Pedro: Big time. To me, that was a big source of guilt especially when it's like, "Hey, he's blind. He's undocumented. He's going to college. He must be a saint." If you only knew exactly who I am, would you be as kind to me?

Kousha Navidar: Would you be as kind to me? Set, why was it important to you to have that conversation in the film?

Set Hernandez: I just want to say, Kousha, thank you so much for the way you summarized the film because I feel like that is the best description of the film that even I wouldn't have been able to articulate, so thank you so much for receiving our film. I think so much of the discourse about immigration right now and maybe during the past 20 years has been about how hardworking we are and how much we contribute to taxes and to our communities that's why we are worthy of dignity. I feel like in the film, we really argue that all of us are worthy of dignity and humanity just because we are.

I feel like so much of that discourse also excludes people who have disabilities, who are not able to maneuver through society in the same way that capitalism expects us to churn out productivity. I think with the film, we really wanted to highlight that every immigrant and every human being, regardless of their immigration status, or regardless of who they may be, are worthy of second chances, of opportunities, and that we shouldn't have to earn, all of that.

I feel like we also want to be able to lift up that in the discourse that's been predominant around DACA. DREAMers, the Dream Act, and how we were brought here as the pristine, innocent children by our parents. I feel like we really want to counter that narrative too that undocumented young people, undocumented people in general, there's so many flavors of what it is to be undocumented and that we are worthy of an opportunity and of humanity just because we are.

Kousha Navidar: I hear you use words like so many different flavors and bucking, this is a gist of what you said, bucking the conceptions that we have around what an immigrant or a good immigrant is. It sounds like a goal of this film for you was to show nuance and layers and a spectrum, but also in that an entitlement of having what others who might not be immigrants already have. Is that fair?

Set Hernandez: Yes. I think so much of what we're trying to lift up also in the film is the discourse about immigration and politicized identities, in essence, has been relegated to legislation to the election, and we're more than just that. Undocumented people care about other things that happen in our daily lives, like getting your heart broken or what kind of food do I like to eat, or how's my mom doing if she's not feeling well today. I feel like we really wanted to capture the humanity that Pedro embodies in the film and really being able to color the immigration rhetoric with that.

Kousha Navidar: Family is an important element of the film. As you mentioned, there's this interesting scene where Pedro talks to his mom about his immigrant journey. Pedro's mom says that, "We immigrants should be grateful to America for giving us more opportunities." Yet Pedro is hesitant to agree with her. He says that "The government didn't help me, but the people have." Set, is this a conversation you often encounter between immigrant parents and their kids?

Set Hernandez: I feel like it's not even just between immigrant parents and their kids maybe, I feel like, at large, there's this rhetoric of the grateful immigrant. I feel like it's more nuanced than that. I feel like so many people don't and-- because when I hear about people advocating for citizenship, for example, for undocumented people, I've heard some politicians use the rhetoric of, "They came here to make our communities better." Or like, "To contribute to America and make America better."

Maybe just to an extent that is some immigrants, but I feel like many of us came here because we're just trying to survive. There's so many factors also around foreign policy that also causes immigrants to be pushed out of their countries of origin and be pulled into the US, and ultimately what I'm trying to say is with Pedro's conversation with his mom, how can we complicate the narrative that, yes, there are good things that immigrants experience, but also it's not all paradise?

Kousha Navidar: The complication part is interesting as well when it comes to romanticizing struggle, which is something that Pedro says right in the movie. It reminds me of the trope of immigrants being these resilient figures in our society, which is what you're alluding too. Let's listen to that clip about romanticizing struggle.

Set Hernandez: Do you feel like there's such a thing as romanticizing struggle?

Pedro: There is, but at the same time, sometimes I feel that that's the only thing that we have to make sense out of it because otherwise, I don't know if I will be able to bear the frustration of how unjust my situation is and the situation of many people. I hate that narrative of I'm the good immigrant. Yes, I'm here. I was able to make it this far, but how many people had to sacrifice for me to get a chance? My parents had to pretty much pound their future. Yes, I got a chance, to what price? Yes, I got here, what's the price my family had to pay for me to be here?

Kousha Navidar: Set, what are some of the consequences of having a trope like that?

Set Hernandez: Sorry. As I was re-listening to the clip, I've watched the film so many times, and re-listening to it, still, it's really so powerful. Like Pedro says there's so many hardships, I think, that are apparent in our lives and sometimes we just need to find a way to make sense of it, but that does not take away the fact that to be able to move forward with our life--

For example, as an undocumented immigrant who happens to be a filmmaker, it is not lost on me what a privilege that has been for me, because not many people from our communities are able to pursue their aspirations. Even having an aspiration sometimes, not everyone gets to have access to that. That just shows how unjust the world can be, that our own parents sometimes don't get to pursue their own aspirations, that they live vicariously through us.

There's just so much weight that I think that places on our shoulders, not because of social constructs, but also because we love our family and we want to be able to pay forward what we've received from our parents, for example, at least for me and Pedro. I feel like just really uplifting the discourse and complicating, that's the word of the moment, what it means to be an immigrant, and that it's not just everything that you hear the presidential candidates are talking about right now.

Kousha Navidar: I imagine that at this moment, that sense of complication, which is a word that's coming up a lot in this conversation, is in full force because for you, you've gotten a lot of attention recently because of your work. You've received the Truer Than Fiction Award at the Film Independent Spirit Awards this year, which is an award for up-and-coming filmmakers. Now that you're getting industry recognition and you're moving up in your career, I imagine the idea of success is taking on new layers, and that is complicated. Which parts of your identity impact how you personally define success now?

Set Hernandez: Yes, I feel like in this industry in general or just in the world at large, there's these imagined standards of success that is imposed on all of us. I feel like, for me, the biggest success is to be able to do work that I feel is meaningful and to live like I'm living in purpose. Being an independent filmmaker is not financially easy for anybody, but I feel like, in spite of the uncertainty and the challenges that it presents me, I don't feel worried, strangely. If anything, I just feel so grateful and blessed to know someone like Pedro that he'd trust me to uplift his story in this way. I feel like that is success 10 times over.

Kousha Navidar: Well, one bold choice that you made right from the beginning of the movie was how you told Pedro's story visually. The most obvious choice is that you blur the screen and use a ton of out-of-focus shots, much like how somebody who might be hard of vision might look at it. Can you tell us more about why you made this choice?

Set Hernandez: From the very beginning, I've always told Pedro that my one and only audience member, whose opinion I care about is him, Pedro. As long as he watches the film and he gets to say, "You understand me, Set. This is me." For Pedro to be able to say that, he has to not just be able to access the film, but also access it in a meaningful, enjoyable, evocative way. So much of the blurriness of the film is to really imagine what equitable enjoyment would be like so that someone who's sighted and can watch the film visually doesn't get necessarily way more information and enjoy the film significantly more than Pedro.

The out-of-focus footage of the film really is an invitation to watch a film by listening. Because also, as a social worker, Pedro spends so much of his life listening to other people. What would it be like now for our film to invite viewers to watch and listen to this person who spent so much of his life listening to other people?

Kousha Navidar: I love that you say your first audience member that you care about was Pedro and telling his story. For all of the other audience people doing that, what do you hope Pedro's story resonates with viewers? What do you hope they take from the story?

Set Hernandez: Yes, that is my most favorite question, Kousha. Like what I was saying earlier, the film is indeed about immigration and disability and the circumstances of Pedro's life, but at the end of the day, it's about vulnerability and this experience of worthiness. I hope that for folks that watch the film or are even listening to this interview right now, we go about our day not being reminded that we are loved and that we are worthy, and I hope that through our film, even just watching it for 80 minutes or so, I hope that what you get out of it is that you are worthy. You don't need to prove anything else to anybody else and that you belong in the family of life.

Kousha Navidar: Well, the documentary is Unseen. We've been talking with director Set Hernandez. Its broadcast premiere is today at 10:00 PM Eastern on PBS. Set, thank you so much for joining us.

Set Hernandez: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a privilege.

Kousha Navidar: Coming up on tomorrow's show, since 2015, local artist Rusty Zimmerman has painted free portraits of his fellow New Yorkers while also recording oral history interviews for what he calls the Free Portrait Project. They're on display in a new exhibit at Industry City. Rusty Zimmerman joins us to discuss. We'll see you here tomorrow on All Of It.

 

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