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Prenatal care in the new March of Dimes booklet be good to your baby before it is born clearly March of Dimes at Maryhill three seven nine hundred today for your free copy. W. N.Y.C. T.V. to New York. State to infer community action live on Jan thirty one. Community Action the weekly Health and Welfare report produced by the community comes to live Greater New York the planning and coordinating group for health and welfare services This week's topic other poor being pushed out by urban renewal. I am I ready for this program Mr Ted that great public affairs director for the community council now here is Mr Thackeray. Thank you Iraq come to community action are subject to bears one of continuing concern to the community council of Greater New York a concern which now can ten years under the guidance of David Charles community council president and James W. for really as its executive director. The pertinent question the barriers are the poor are being pushed out by urban renewal our focus will ride Libby on the driver urban renewal project on Manhattan's Upper West Side a twenty square block area bounded by eighty seventh and ninety seventh Street Central Park West and Amsterdam Avenue right Mr De Doo six some of the answers to this question and suggest what may be sound growers for urban renewal in the future are Dr Who's on Macauley. Vice President of Greenway associates and corporate an economist and special a specialist in social research Ringway associates is now doing a follow up on the first study of the rest side urban renewal area on we recently made public we have also Miss Alice Brophy the coordinator for social services in the Westside urban renewal program on behalf of the city's housing and redevelopment board. And the Reverend Henry Joseph Brown more familiar normally known as Father bound a founder and current president of the strikers by the neighborhood council. They print citizens about strong group in the Westside urban renewal area which represents some fifty neighborhood groups within the area. Other Brown is astral resident priest at St Gregory's Roman Catholic Church. In the West Side area a scholar who has earned his doctor in twice over a teacher who came to his Upper West Side parish from the never west side where was a barrier he learned what it was for a family his own to be pushed out of home and neighborhood by soccer progress then it was a new tunnel for some families today even in this rock Upper West Side Parish it may be urban renewal. The Community Council as head unique relationship to the urban renewal program on the west side and to these guests. From one nine hundred fifty nine to one nine hundred sixty one in the early days of urban renewal the community council with an initial grant by the lavender bird foundation lunar supplemented by the housing and Home Finance Agency and back to the demonstration project and organizing the citizens or happening to organize them in the Upper West Side urban rural area and the addition of West Park areas. The concept fall down that in six years from one nine hundred fifty to one nine hundred fifty six the population that shifted so that not only had the population increased by sixteen percent to some thirty nine thousand people then but that seven of ten of the families in the area and one nine hundred fifty six had not lived there in one nine hundred fifty the nineteenth century buying strong houses which once had been largely occupied by a single family were converted and the good mines buy some land more and then to fire traps and rot trap for the poor who crowded whole families into single rooms because they had nowhere else to go ten twenty or more families lived or tried to live where one family that lived a few short years before in six years the white population had dropped from ninety four percent to fifty eight percent of the total and the dairy is at forty one percent according to the Greenway Associates report the Puerto Rican population had risen from four nine tenth's to thirty three and four tenth's percent and then whites had increased from one to nine percent and those trends have been continuing up to the present time new hours in consisted of splitting one room into two or three new schools a new playground were unheard of the number of children had doubled in a six year period. But out of this demonstration effort grew banding together of citizens representing cross sections of the rural area and to a provisional council of neighborhood argument sessions. Which became the striker's by a neighborhood council representative heard today by the founder. Father Henry Joseph by. When he was an assistant director of the community council Mr Robert Rafferty who was a colleague of Dr McAuliffe Frederick with the report of the council's demonstration. Right in so there's an organization and its recommendation to the newly established community relations program of the housing redevelopment board. Social services are represented here today by Mr Bruff I suppose we begin with Dr Macaulay all of the probing pushed out by urban renewal. That's somewhat difficult to answer from a purely research point of view when this project was first begun I began to talk about it there were some five thousand people on the site by the time that we began to interview there were some twenty five hundred families that were actually interviewed on the site now at this time we are in the process of a follow up study and we are have been trying to identify where the families that were interviewed are not located according to our most recent check roughly fifteen percent and know where they are they'll be there died they've moved to other places out of state or other places in the city to come back to you read some more of these just because. This Brophy. What does your social service program do about families who are displaced temporarily or permanently Wired I'm not right think the effort on the west side and it was innovative and a quite dramatic type of program was to provide to people who were being relocated a gamut of social services which would attempt to minimize the problems of relocation the program was Barry was undertaken by five different agencies providing services for preschool children up to and through the aging group I can describe the programs a little bit later if you wish me to but I think that the types of services provided the individuals did minimize the social problems which were uncovered by the Greenlee study want to Brown and. Not only a priest in the neighborhood but the president of the striker's made neighborhood council Well it's your head of the pillar in your neighborhood or in the spirit Well I think for those who have. Been eyes and gotten to know their rights they're doing all right for themselves. Except that in all of the numbers game that we play about those going out and those able to remain and so forth let's say except the figures that the city officially gears as of this date some four thousand households. Got to be dislocated those that made up family units or over sixty had a right to. Relocation at best some twenty five hundred households will be able to take advantage of the new neighborhood of these four thousand households body ninety percent of United percent of them are under five thousand dollars. We really don't know or it's my suspicion that a thirty to forty percent of the of the poor dislocated are able to stay in the neighborhood in decent new housing or rehabilitated housing under the housing authority of the so-called twenty percent of the middle income that will be at eight eighteen dollars a room it will be a tremendous achievement but it won't be on a kind of any social service program set up in the neighborhood I feel the two billion dollars was sent spent or something like that on social services programs for about five percent of the people's needs and ninety percent of people's needs are taken care of by themselves or through our organization which was not financed after you your organization got leavened bread money and then federal money we were on our own we now have a German at tremendous grant of eleven thousand dollars to relieve the hardship of relocation from here and then there was your strong euro run around even though we're taking the city money yes which is a hard thing to do as I'll tell you in the. That's right so you want to know what's your reaction to the comment that. About five percent of the people in the area may get some benefit of the social services right I think it was the number was much greater than five percent I don't want to again play the numbers game here but of the twenty five hundred families that were interviewed by greenly associates some twenty one hundred were getting services of one kind or another now many of them made it very minimal kind of help much of watch which they did get through strike but a great number of families needed I'm going services which are provided through the Department of Welfare You certainly needed help to get jobs which is provided through the P.A. our joint program. Family care programs children's programs were provided through Phoenix and certainly the Janus program which helped a select number of aging is a program that has not been undertaken in any of the section of the city and has been a tremendous value to the aging. Committee fairly good the greenlight Associates report which is now are the subject of and I'm going to study affairs you know didn't pay any attention to high risk regulation of neighborhood needs room urban renewal planning Yes one of the recommendations that the closer coordination between the various departments in other words you find that they're resonators close chord and I guess even in light of that you have an ethnicity follow up study we find that frequently the welfare department isn't aware of what the reader cation Department doing or the real estate and the welfare people and actually need to be much closer coordination between the various people providing services so that something for them fall between or that other people get over amount of service while the bomber's this run of really gaps with strikers barriers helping the only way. Then on the west side practically speaking has been done across the desk of the executive secretary strikers by Mrs S. to Cranford of paid for by the strikers been able to counsel. The hundred fifty ladies and gentlemen who got diagnosed by Janus and got some help the move was a great service for the hundred fifty people I would say really maybe a couple of dozen people who were helped by Operation Phoenix and the parents who had a babysitting operation through this same highly publicized operation got a service but most people I think the Greenlee have rightly read the greeny survey shows that most people needed information inspiration organization guidance and we gave this event to court with the people without any of this federal money I think we had here a need identified by the neighborhood five years ago that only people and some families of the discombobulated and more scramble than most of us on the occasional relocation could use some help and we got blown up into a distributional exaggerated social service program while the relief of the ninety five percent families are needed if you have the problems where these people are caught in the green as I was information making up their minds about their housing plans this isn't a problem this is a made up problem it's the problem of the relocation the problem the real estate the property explain their rights and the help of the make their plans a service this is a service was being brought provided as it should have been by the city agency and I think that the best service given up there on the part of your social service where the social service and perhaps a relocation apartment family counseling and welfare is diagnose these people we have families after families are stuck in the pipeline of social diagnosis by social services relocation family counseling or welfare. Then the social workers and the public housing authority so that they're not helped the diagnosed Brophy does a city Mike an effort to get information to families and make them aware that they could receive help from the city and learn as well I doubt has gone much further than that the families do we think help from the thirty three special family counseling you one of the Department of Welfare have approximately three hundred seventy five families on. Care at the present time the partner relocation has some four hundred families under care the Phoenix Program handle two hundred seventy five families and joining us one hundred fifty families I think are I think with the Irish This took care of a great number of the families who needed service so I think one of the problems in this urban rural areas and every other in urban rural areas the promise communication of getting information to families as to what their rights are and where they meet may sink services if they need them but this is a city wide problem and it's not I think that it was probably exacerbated in the west side and renewal area because the problem free will cation but I would not agree with Father that most of them are just information that's not borne out by our records Father Brown was I well I found her. The Sigur rós fairly early in two hundred seventy five feet it's going to take the Phoenix figure if I'm going to have a kid in the in the babysitting operation she was taking solace and she was two cases so what has this got to do with the five thousand households this was a nice little anti a built up in social service money I made saying that the family counseling the welfare has come from the hard core problem families will obviously need help we took a simple social need of some families in need a lot of long range help I would say by a couple of dozen another couple hundred units of a short range up out of as we build this tremendous demonstration which demonstrated I maintain still in most of the five thousand households or thirty thousand whatever the magic number is real estate and relocation never really agreed on this so they've sort of decided that a certain number of what they needed was to be to be God given some help in helping themselves and the city did not underwrite this as it provided in the urban renewal manual they refused to accept this responsibility and Winsted wanted to have a funny kind of citizens participation which all because Community Council organizers in the beginning organized the people of South affected would still have the same from any kind of thing of the leading citizens deciding what the unwashed eleven Alarie needed and thanks to our organization we broke out of that in the two men that were responsible for John Foley and Michael coffee who walk in the eyes dusty unwashed. Dr McClelland is a great way of reports. Mike any specific reference to this need for some strong services with an area and I think that I think you have to realize that we actually classified families according to their needs and then we did not provide any service but they were referred either to the welfare we found three hundred fifty families who needed intensive services family counseling and our we find that there are one hundred twenty five of those have still not been touched by any kind of service we've found is a very small percent that could use services because they were so at this point so badly damaged that with in the ring neuro programs that the people who are the other extreme some are needed nurse services all because of the can't help themselves and others are only this kind of informational services fathers talking about I don't know if you're really just a distinction really that eighty five to ninety percent needed to make up their plans about housing information re public housing which was an obligation was sitting there just was moved into the area together so there's more problems people need grimly another way in other parts of the text not the tables you come up with the notion that nobody there was a basket case we're talking about three hundred fifty families out of the almost five thousand households where I'm really hundred five hundred the way out of this one I pondered out of twenty five that we actually found by the time we got to the good luck in finding the ones that have been our major that got me a better find and we tried that much rougher Yes I think when you taking some you see I think what happened is that Stryker Spain was getting those families who are more mobile and who were able to make plans for themselves and who didn't need just incidental kinds of information and help but many of the families in order to make plans to move on needed a great deal of social service help and about how Quest provided. Through the series of agencies which I am numerator and I don't think that strike in space for a great many of these families special counseling units of welfare and reallocation was working with them directly we see them now because they're stuck in the pipeline of public housing and after a thirty year growth of bureaucracy you become a potential problem in public housing circles almost by picking your nose at the interview and as a result we have been shaking so called potential problems out of the public housing pipeline like. I don't want and I perhaps we have because we have a priority for the neighborhood family which was one of the early days of the plan plus the for the potential problem problem with getting more of a percentage of people spread people into public housing in their own neighborhood than usually happens because of attention problems generally speaking probably only stay in the pipeline for years and you look reapply every six months that's a problem not enough public housing not enough low cost housing numbers housing the part of the faces housing the people under three thousand dollars which twenty five generally nobody it's impossible what happens to these people going to miss both feared you know these many of my life I learned that fathers talking about are in public housing one may be on public assistance in getting public housing and many of them in Stephen rise college at the moment not from the public assistance case for twenty percent of them and I think that's a run to say how these housing these Sir families I think you must remember that nine hundred of them now are in public housing right side and I would agree with Father that picture in Steven Wise towers is quite unique since nobody in the development is from outside the area is that a fair statement father although I can be quite positive now we will have by the end of September perhaps a thousand families really house and brand new spanking apartments in the western oil area and the people who came out of the old buildings have been declared of the old the new will have been a two more years another five hundred or so we're supposed to have nine hundred eighty coming up into the middle incomes going to Thailand and we're going to be is running people running on the urban rural areas live there but. Or there'll be more as I get a response to be redeveloped at the same density After all we bring in about five to six thousand high the middle of luxury income families are weren't there before are these the people who are dispersing the poor families and children always been a completely displace or more two percent was back of the poor they give a smidgen after they were going to give us four hundred units of low rent housing like the Chicago developer where they're going to get the five hundred lower than they threw it out off one hundred what the twenty five hundred or you may debate the nine hundred eighty of them in the middle income at eighteen dollars a room. I mean this is a tremendous advance the usual open window screen these days about leave it to private enterprise of the Anderson thesis about the federal bill does opposes Gregg nonsense what is the assistant other player going to get this many poor people how does the average cost of the room and the area or is there an average quality of public housing the cost per room is eighteen dollars per room and father was reacting to the fact that many individuals could not pay this room cost now under the new federal bill coming in it will be possible with rent subsidies to expand the entire program but that is going to be over the long haul it isn't anything that so many only available except through the six million dollars which the state has available for rent subsidies which will be played out in the west side of an Reno area of the mayor I see this morning I think there yesterday reacted to say. That the new housing bill would like to possible double our housing units which can be fine as for the public funds. This is a general question anyone who wants to pick it up is this going to help or is it going to further dislocate the poor. That only amount of housing or resign or I think you have to look at this Mr Parker neighborhood by neighborhood and assess what each neighborhood needs says some neighborhoods don't need anymore public housing and in those neighborhoods that being one which a mom or a middle income projects are some on. Our neighborhoods need a great volume of public housing so that categorically I don't think you can say for the city as a whole that it is good or bad I think that for a neighborhood certain neighborhoods it is going to be make it possible for individuals to determine to live in the neighborhood in which they have been for many years and not be relocated to a new neighborhood a new setting you know the years in every new all the great philosophy of balance community and preserving ties and community and so what is so cynically disregarded they haven't learned anything from the US urban ALLAIRE when you look at what they're talking about the planetarium below what Morningside above is the same thing the poor people out rich or people in situations taking care of. The only thing that seems to be dominant is the real estate value not the social value so in its contradiction of the very lovely philosophy that urban renewal expounds it's worse than the world those of slum clearance because slum clearance said we're simply clearing Islam what goes up we don't care but everyone else as we can have a balance community we're going to need the good thing we're going to keep your community ties going to leave you where you are institutions in your small business and so on so on then in effect most is on its toes you think there's been any improvement. It's made a lot of jobs a lot more people I think Moses burrows with five what the house without what now probably does with five hundred he did more he did fasted and more relentlessly and one of the songs are other members of the beyond are not right maybe finding out ways to help themselves a little more clearly Well I think that in terms of the whole poverty philosophy of that the public program philosophy this has been happening in the neighborhood least in our brain oh well I think in others they're still getting a snow job the public relations technique of citizens but this question which is the nice people deciding through their When sure is what buildings will come up and welcome down and how much will be the rentals of the new ones Bellevue South Samal story a smidgen of public housing Morningside Columbia dominates fifteen square blocks it will develop where places in the. Sorrows going to different adults or some middle income people out as well as the poor so I think that the big graduating Morningside they're really getting up higher there's around the world of the people and those are being heard by urban renewal planners certainly the people are being hurt by urban renewal planners Father Brown can endorse the same so he has access to the city departments and this is a pretty quickly now I think probably get urban renewal on a very very now are way better it's just to rehire was the plan or it done so I have as one of the skulls a stabilization of a community culturally racially and economically and should and I don't know any other tool that we have any other suggestion that anyone's made to control e central city and to handle metropolitan real growth then urban renewal a fifteen year old program that I think has made many mistakes but has certainly learned by its mistakes and is I think doing a magnificent job across the country I just want to make one point that that despite the fact there's been a great deal of criticism of urban renewal there are seventeen urban renewal projects seven hundred urban renewal projects going on throughout the community throughout the nation and eight hundred different communal I would say a man if you want to see what private enterprise does look at the side want to see what I bring to the planet thinking do you look at on neighborhood where least we're keeping that many poor people still I notice in the Upper West Side program one of the ways of trying to provide better housing much to go up with new skyscraper apartments some of the chants kind of creep around but among them are some blow control ranch and some are even being bought by some resident some of the nineteenth century and one of the buildings have been renovated some have fewer and more spacious room there are some modern kitchen some margarine livingroom. But then I've got to be people have been displaced some perhaps probably from the butter and some undoubtedly for the worse all the time a quick round and closing duct in the car only in Europe and then it was there was an event a Russian has been learned so far from urban Renault I think out of this particular graphite urban renewal area the lesson that has been learned is that if you're really going to plan for a community you have to start planning ready in advance and have your plans laid read before there's any. Taking over at the title by the city that this is the thing we've learned in this briefing yes there was only run sign that you could do. That has grown out of your experience with the upper west side project what would it be what would the next I think that in addition to urban rural urban development whatever you want to call it the money adjusted programs which are now coming through the civil rights program the education bill the message on notification of the. Monies which are being set aside for transportation all these programs must be added to the one to urban renewal if it's the program the so what Dr Brown Farmer Brown wrote I will say agree with pretty much what's been said but I would add that urban renewal will continue to be done with the same values of the plan as in the real estate makes we have control of up to now unless the people themselves who are affected are strong enough strong enough organized to get some of their values in which will perhaps come smack in conflict with the values of the plan as an urban renewal as I understand a plan is elected to consider the same category with those executed plans on it seems to me that perhaps one of the Final thoughts come out of our discussion. There is that whether we are representing private citizens groups or public groups or study and research groups and certainly early planning at the grassroots. Coordinating services that are offered within these areas must obviously be our goals if we are to do anything more than simply fall there or boulders or technique and push storms around and strong people out. You have been listening to community councils Community Action Program are on the poor are being pushed out by urban run along with Mr Bradley our Dr his I'm a call it fice president the green light associates the solace Buffett the housing and development boards coordinator of social services revenue Henry Joseph Brown president of strikers Bay neighborhood council. Next week military action will talk about what the public needs to know about health and welfare services thank you and join us land. You have been sitting in the under discussion on urban renewal your moderator has been Ted Bankrate to the community council of Greater New York. Next week at this time the topic will be what the public should know about health and welfare services. They join us then for Community Action. This program was directed by John Baird. Community Action was brought to you live by the municipal Broadcasting System. The masterwork bulletin contains full details of the programs of W N Y C N N T F M.