Brooklyn DA on Crime Prevention and Prosecution

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We'll get a take on crime and justice in New York City now from the Brooklyn DA, Eric Gonzalez. The mayor and NYPD have announced crime data for 2022, another year in which crime was a defining issue in politics as we were just describing in our last segment, bringing Lee Zeldin within a few points of Kathy Hochul just as it propelled Eric Adams to the mayoralty in 2021. The mayor made it his major focus in his first year in office.

The results are, I think it's fair to say, a mixed bag as The New York Times sums it up in their story on this. Homicides fell last year to their lowest level since 2019 before the pandemic, but other categories of crime, including robbery and burglary, drove the overall increase compared with 2021. There was an overall increase. Surges in robbery, burglary, and other crimes drove a 22%, big increase, in overall major crime in New York City last year compared with the year prior despite that significant drop in shootings and murders.

Those stats as published in The New York Times and those lead lines from a Times article on January 5th. As it happens, the overwhelming percentage of that improvement in shootings and murders is taking place in Brooklyn. The DA's office says more than 80% of the decline in both shootings and murders since they peaked in 2020 has taken place in Brooklyn.

Let's talk about public safety in Brooklyn and citywide as seen through the Brooklyn DA's lens. We'll talk about the role of progressive prosecutors as well as we did recently with Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg, who, of course, became a political lightning rod last year, but aren't his policies so much different from the other DAs in the city? DA Gonzalez, always good to have you on the show. Welcome back to WNYC.

DA Eric Gonzalez: Hi, Brian, good to be on with you.

Brian Lehrer: Would you like to start with that improvement in shootings and homicides and how much Brooklyn is contributing to the citywide numbers? Can you flesh out that data for us a little more?

DA Eric Gonzalez: Sure. First, let me just say that I'm happy to report that we continue to make public safety gains in Brooklyn with homicides and shootings decreasing for a second consecutive year, keeping a positive trend that we started after 2020 when the numbers really spiked upwards. That trend is something that I'm committed to keep moving in that direction. In fact, looking at the two-year numbers just in Brooklyn, we've reduced shootings by 31% and homicide by 20%. These percentages are real numbers that impact the safety of New Yorkers and of Brooklynites and really put a lot less families at risk of the trauma that these cases bring upon families.

Brian Lehrer: We can get lost in numbers, but I think the point of pride there is that those reductions represent more than 80% of the decline in shootings and murders citywide since 2020. Is this something you want to take credit for, like anything you are doing differently from other DAs in the city?

DA Eric Gonzalez: Well, we definitely have been true believers that part of public safety is identifying who puts New Yorkers at greatest risk, and so we've spent a lot of my tenure as DA in helping to identify drivers of violence. You hear that topic mentioned. Now, I think the governor mentioned it. The mayor has mentioned it. I've been talking about this since 2016. Things that I did in my office, I think, helped the partnership in prosecuting violent crimes.

We created a gun prosecution unit, a violent crimes unit that focuses specifically on people who the police department believes are trigger pullers. Recently, I invested in the digital evidence lab to help get evidence off social media and other platforms to make these prosecutions more effectively. This year, I created a ghost gun unit that's focusing on getting these ghost guns off the streets. In fact, just recently, we had a buyback event where we had the most successful gun buyback in New York City history, 206 firearms. Just this year, over 400 guns off the streets.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take some phone calls for the Brooklyn DA, Eric Gonzalez. You know that one of a prosecutor's jobs is to ask people questions. Today, you get to ask a question of a DA, the Brooklyn DA, Eric Gonzalez, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, especially if you live in Brooklyn. Anyone may call, 212-433-9692, or tweet a question @BrianLehrer. We'll look for them on Twitter as well. DA Gonzalez, how much do you credit Mayor Adams or Police Commissioner Sewell for the drop in shootings and homicides? Any of their specific approaches, being new in office last year, changed the game in your opinion from what was happening under de Blasio?

DA Eric Gonzalez: Well, since 2014 in Brooklyn, we've seen other numbers trending in the right direction with the exception of 2020 where shootings and homicides really spiked to an unprecedented level. The focus on the drivers of violence, the police used to call it "precision policing." I think all of that has continued under Mayor Adams and Commissioner Sewell. I think, very specifically, they're focused on how to deploy the police. The police department is smaller than it had been in the past. I think they've done a good job in figuring out how to deploy the officers in areas that are likely to see shootings and retaliations. I give them credit for really doing more with less.

Brian Lehrer: We should also say that people forget that before the pandemic crime, especially murders and shootings have been going down in the de Blasio era as well until after 2019. Your office--

DA Eric Gonzalez: 2019, Brian, was the safest year in Brooklyn's history. It's only a few short years ago, but it feels longer.

Brian Lehrer: Your office reports, and I'm reading from a release from your office now, that the most notable drops in homicide in Brooklyn over the past year took place in Coney Island, East Flatbush, Midwood, Bushwick, and Fort Greene, with all of these neighborhoods experiencing a 50% decrease or more. Some of the more historically violent precincts saw homicide numbers remain the same as in 2021, but shootings declined in most of them by 42% in Bedford-Stuyvesant, 18% in Brownsville, and 14% in Crown Heights while East New York had a 12% increase. That's a lot, but what did these neighborhood comparisons tell you?

DA Eric Gonzalez: Well, the decline in shootings is probably the most important indicator of safety. Unfortunately, a number of the homicides that took place in Brooklyn this year were homicides not committed by guns. There were some family violence cases. Obviously, we all know the tragic drowning of three beautiful babies in Coney Island. The shooting numbers are more of an indicator of what's happening on the streets than the homicide numbers because a number of the homicides were stabbings and other types of crimes, often people who know each other, and, again, unfortunately, some of the domestic violence cases.

To see the shootings decline in neighborhoods like Brownsville is a positive sign, East Flatbush, Coney Island, because they had been ravaged by shootings the year earlier. I'm very optimistic that we will continue to do that. Again, it's been some really fine police work in trying to disrupt some of the gang activity. Many of the shootings, and I would say nearly three-quarters of the shooting, the person who is the shooter is involved in gang activity.

Brian Lehrer: Now, to the bad news. The stats from your office acknowledge that when you take all the so-called major crime index crimes together, rape, robbery, felony assault, burglary, grand larceny, and grand theft auto, in addition to the murders and shootings, the major crime index rose by 20% in Brooklyn last year. Why do you think all those other things would be going the opposite way of murders and shootings?

DA Eric Gonzalez: Yes, we saw that happen throughout the city and, really, we're seeing that throughout the state. There's more activity now than before. As people had returned back to work and school, we're going to see more grand larcenies and, unfortunately, robberies just because there's been more activity in our communities. That's a good thing that people are getting back to a normal life, but that definitely would explain a little bit of the increase. I posit that a lot of it has to do with our young people.

We saw that shootings and homicides involving young people under 19 increased by nearly 40%. Then, actually, in Brooklyn, it's closer to 50%. Many of the robberies, and grand larceny numbers in particular, and even some of the auto grand larceny, the numbers are being committed by young people. We definitely need more resources to prevent and to work with our young people. So many of them have severe depression and mental health challenges. I think it started with COVID and continued onward.

Brian Lehrer: On the topic of robbery and burglary from stores, the New York Post, which I know it's the Post, it's the "all crime all the time as if nothing else was going on" news outlet, but they had a story the other day. Park Slope Shop Owners Terrorized by Uptick in 'Brazen' Crimes. It starts by saying, "Sunday's $2 million smash-and-grab heist at a Park Slope jewelry store is just the latest audacious attack in the once-quiet, upscale Brooklyn enclave. Two other shops have been targeted by crooks in recent months, including Glitz Jewelers on 7th Avenue in August and an AT&T outlet next to Facets Jewelry, which was ransacked this past weekend on New Year's Day."

Then it quotes Eddie Khanimov, owner of Glitz Jewelers, saying, "The criminals are brazen." Glitz Jewelers were sledgehammer-wielding robbers made off with a third of his store's inventory, $200,000 in gold and diamonds in less than 10 minutes on August 17th. It says, "At the AT&T store, thieves, also armed with sledgehammers, tried but failed to get into the safe, the second time the store was hit in less than a month."

It says, "Park Slope's uptick in crime is the worst Khanimov has seen since the '80s, he said, and he blames the state's controversial bail law." That's a lot. My question is, how would you assess the state of these smash-and-grabs in general and in Brooklyn in particular? Of course, they've gotten so much press attention too. To what degree, if any, do you also blame the 2019 bail reform?

DA Eric Gonzalez: Well, the uptick in these burglaries and we saw similar situations in stores in Williamsburg in Brooklyn, they're concerning. Shopkeepers are doing their best to keep themselves and their customers safe. We've been meeting with the different bids to figure out how we help them keep themselves safer. These cases in particular, the most recent one in Park Slope, these are difficult cases because the trauma that's been caused by this is New Yorkers feel it. New Yorkers feel less safe.

In this particular case, I'm confident that the police will be able to locate those individuals that were responsible. Those are the examples that I think are used against bail reform because, in those cases, we also had a Brink's truck. $300,000 was stolen when they were trying to load the money into the truck. Those cases will not be bail-eligible. These are difficult conversations that the governor and the legislature are continuing to have.

I will say that, as district attorney, I think we have to be mindful that the outcome of these cases depends on us apprehending these individuals, understanding their criminal history in terms of, are these violent offenders? If they are, the dispositions in those cases need to hold them accountable. That probably looks like prison for these individuals. Overall, as we're seeing on violent crime, bail reform allows us to continue to make the system fairer and focus our resources on people who are driving violence.

Now, the conversation about any changes to bail reform, I know, are happening up in Albany. These are examples that I think can be productive to those conversations, but it's important for me to say as DA that I will continue to make sure that we work with the police department to hold folks accountable regardless of their cases, bail-eligible or not. The case doesn't end with the decision about bail. The case ends at this process through the courthouse.

Brian Lehrer: I saw you were at Governor Hochul's State of the State speech yesterday, where she did propose some changes to bail reform, especially to make it easier to hold recidivists, repeat offenders, and to allow judges to use judgment on a defendant's dangerousness. Do you want the dangerousness standard?

DA Eric Gonzalez: Well, I've been vocal that I believe judges need to have some more discretion. I'm going to continue to look at the governor's proposal to make sure that we do everything we can to strengthen and to ensure that when a person is accused of a crime that the laws definitely work towards making sure that they appear. I have said this before. I support bail reform, but there are categories of offenses that are currently not bail-eligible. You mentioned some. I'm concerned about domestic violence and all hate crimes.

Expanding judicial discretion and some of those cases, I think, would be helpful in making sure that they come back to court, but also ensuring that New Yorkers feel safe and feel like they're on the road to justice. These are important conversations. Again, I will say that part of my responsibility as a DA is to make sure that whatever the law is that we continue to move these cases forward in our court system. I think that the loss in the bail conversation is the tremendous backlog that exists in our court system and the need for more resources in our courthouses and for district attorneys and even for public defenders. The slow pace by which cases are moving through the system also really undermines the sense of public safety and justice.

Brian Lehrer: This is WNYC-FM HD and AM New York, WNJT-FM 88.1 Trenton, WNJP 88.5 Sussex, WNJY 89.3 Netcong, and WNJO 90.3 Toms River. We are a New York and New Jersey Public Radio and live streaming at wnyc.org at exactly eleven o'clock. Little more time with the Brooklyn DA, Eric Gonzalez, 212-433-WNYC. Debbie in Brooklyn, you're on WNYC with the Brooklyn DA. Hi, Debbie.

Debbie: Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call and thank you to Eric Gonzalez. I'm calling because of my concern as a nurse and a resident of Brooklyn about many license plates being covered and essentially ghost plates. These plates are not traceable by the police. Another concern is we've had too many crashes and deaths even, including yesterday. A young woman was killed on her bicycle over in Gowanus by a box truck. We've seen a huge problem with trucks hitting pedestrians and cyclists on our streets. There were no tickets issued to these reckless drivers. No failure to yield and exercise due care. Nothing. They walk away.

Brian Lehrer: DA Gonzalez, on the drivers and the license plates?

DA Eric Gonzalez: Yes, the roads are definitely moving in the wrong direction in terms of safety. As we continue to see more people using alternative forms of traffic, we have to do more to keep people safe. Last year, I created the Street Safety Bureau. Part of that is to provide our prosecutors with more resources to prosecute vehicular crime and vehicular violence. I see it on the roads and myself.

I'm very familiar with some of these things. I do want to give a shout-out to Chief Royster and the New York City Sheriff, who we've met with and we've asked to do a number of enforcement actions on these ghost cars. They've gone out and have seized hundreds and hundreds of cars with fake plates or the paper plates. I think that we're starting to see some difference in that.

As Debbie said, we continue to see cars that deface license plates so that they can't be held accountable. I've called for increased penalties on these hit-and-run drivers. Unfortunately, as the way the law is currently drafted, if you're intoxicated or had been drinking and you're involved in an accident, the penalties for DWI are more significant than if you flee.

A lot of drivers flee, understanding that if they're caught on the scene having been buzzed or intoxicated, they're looking at prison time. If they flee, they're not, because then we couldn't prove that they were intoxicated at the scene. We need to change that. We need to change the law that incentivizes people to leave collisions because it's in their best interest to do so. That's something that I hope the legislature will look at this session.

Brian Lehrer: Does that apply to people who leave the scene of motorized scooter accidents as well?

DA Eric Gonzalez: Well, when you say a scooter, we're talking about the two-wheeled scooters or the razor-kick scooters?

Brian Lehrer: Well, the two-wheel motorized scooters or e-bikes to go down one notch.

DA Eric Gonzalez: Yes, exactly. In a lot of these cases, if the vehicle flees, they're better off fleeing and dealing with leaving the scene of a collision case than they would be in dealing with it at that time. We have to change that law.

Brian Lehrer: Ray in Greenpoint, you're on WNYC with Brooklyn DA Eric Gonzalez. Hi, Ray.

Ray: Hi, good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for the show. I have a question. I know most of the migrants who are coming to the country are seeking a better life and working hard, but is it fair to think that there might be an uptick in the crime rate because of the recent migration crisis? Second question real quick is also the legalization of cannabis. Will there be an increase in crime because of that? I'm particularly concerned about the vehicular aspect of it. How do you enforce people driving around high? To the best of my knowledge, it's not something that we have technology for.

Brian Lehrer: Ray, thank you for both of those questions. DA?

DA Eric Gonzalez: It's a great question. I'll deal with the migrants first. I'm not seeing an increase in cases where migrants or suspects are being arrested for crimes, so I'm not seeing that at all. In fact, I doubt that that would be a major influence on crime rates. There may be some issues of family violence in shelters in those kinds of situations. In general, these are families, often a lot of young kids coming to at least Brooklyn in our family shelters. We'll continue to provide the help that these individuals need to be successful. My office has been working with many agencies to make sure that we're touching these migrants as they're arriving in Brooklyn, but I am very concerned.

Brian Lehrer: I'll let you answer the cannabis question that he asked as well, but I see you held a resource fair for newly arrived asylum seekers last year. The last person they probably want to have contact with, scared out of their wits, to begin with, is a prosecutor. How do you reassure them that you're not looking to bust and deport them? Seriously, what services are you offering asylum seekers, in particular in Brooklyn?

DA Eric Gonzalez: I'll deal with that because it's so important. It's so important that if we want to continue to be safe that our undocumented population or non-citizen population feels comfortable calling the police, working with the prosecutor to report crime, to come to court, and testify when they witnessed crime. It's so important that we have the confidence in people who are not citizens that they can safely participate in the government processes, especially with the police and the prosecutor.

Our resource fair allows these migrants who are coming here under the color of law mostly in terms of looking for refugee status and asylum to know what that process looks like. We've been working with Department of Education and other advocacy groups to get them the resources they need, to get their kids enrolled in school, to make sure that as they apply for TPS that they understand that government is not their enemy.

What I've said to many New Yorkers, they're going to be our neighbors for the next year and a half to two and a half years as they go through legal process. While they're here, we have to make sure that if they witness a crime, they feel comfortable to call 911 or report it. We're going to continue to do that. In terms of services, working to get these young kids into school and connecting them with immigration attorneys.

Brian Lehrer: On cannabis, as it relates both to vehicular issues and potentially adjacent crime, I read that the Harlem Business Improvement District, the 125th Street area, BID, didn't want the store that was planned for across from the Apollo Theater. Because even though they support the social justice aspect of legalizing recreational cannabis, they were concerned about other kinds of drug dealers hanging around there to try to get customers and the crime that comes with that. Are you concerned about any of that for Brooklyn?

DA Eric Gonzalez: I am, in particular on the vehicular front. We saw in other states where, after legalization, highway deaths in particular skyrocketed. I think in Colorado, it may have gone up as much as 40% fatal car accidents. After the legalization, people operating their vehicles under the influence. We just need to make sure that we continue to do education, enforcement.

We have to figure out some technology to test people to see whether or not they're illegally operating under the influence. The educational piece is going to be important. New Yorkers have to understand the same way they understood that drinking alcohol made everyone on the streets less safe. Driving would make them less safe. We need to have that same common-sense approach to cannabis. People have to understand that after they just finished smoking, they can't see if they operate a vehicle.

Brian Lehrer: Last question from a listener. This one is on Twitter. Listener writes, "Please ask Brooklyn DA about gender-based violence. It's a core public safety issue." I do see that one of your initiatives last year was a new gender-based violence division. Very briefly, because we're almost out of time, explain what it does and why you saw the need for it to find that way at this time.

DA Eric Gonzalez: It's a great question because most New Yorkers are thinking about bail reform. The reality is, as district attorney, the job is more holistic. Women are statistically more in danger of family violence, domestic violence, and intimate partner violence in their home than they are out in the street. Major restructuring of our office to acknowledge that domestic violence is the largest number of cases my office receives yearly.

Nearly 10,000 cases a year of intimate partner violence into my office, another 2,000 to 3,000 of sex abuse. We restructured to work each and every day on keeping women safe in Brooklyn. Currently, with this new restructuring, about 20% of the workforce of the lawyers and the non-legal staff work each and every day on protecting women. We're very proud of this initiative. I think it's something you'll see being replicated elsewhere.

Brian Lehrer: Last question, I think you embrace the label "progressive prosecutor." Correct me if I'm wrong, but assuming yes, what does that mean to you and any comment on how Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg took so much political heat that you haven't taken? If Lee Zeldin got elected governor and actually tried to remove DA Bragg as he campaigned on, he might have had to go after several of the New York City borough DAs to be consistent on his criteria. Do you call yourself a progressive prosecutor? Are you any different than Alvin Bragg?

DA Eric Gonzalez: I think each prosecutor brings their own experiences when they take office. My experience was different than Alvin's, but I was a career New York City prosecutor who grew up in East New York and Brooklyn and was really involved in this mission to keep New Yorkers safe. I think that what we saw with Alvin in the very beginning was a bad start, but I think that his policies are going to be grounded like most reform prosecutors on the data and the evidence before his office.

We use that as an evidence to inform our practices in Brooklyn. Each and every day, I look at things that we can do to reform our system, but always through the lens of public safety. I always look at how this will impact safety in the county. I'm very proud of the work that we've accomplished in Brooklyn. I think the numbers do speak positively for the changes that we've implemented in Brooklyn. There's always going to be backlash when people attempt to do different things.

I was fortunate in my county, having been in the office at the time that I was elected, that I already had earned a lot of the trust of the people who work for me. The judges and the police officers. I'm sure DA Bragg is going to do the same as he continues on in his tenure in Manhattan, but his numbers look good for this year. I wish him a lot of luck. He's an important partner as well as DA Clark and DA Katz and Mike McMahon in Staten Island. We all meet together and we all think collectively about the things we can do to move New York in the right direction.

Brian Lehrer: Brooklyn DA Eric Gonzalez, we really appreciate when you come on with us and take some calls from listeners as well. Thank you very much. Good luck in 2023. We'll keep talking.

DA Eric Gonzalez: All right. Thank you, Brian.

 

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