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I The New York City school. Integration is educating Kuligin What is the role of Atlanta University in today's turbulent Southern Society for the answers to these and other questions listen all to your city station's campus press conference each week at this time in this transcribed discussion editors of college newspapers question a news newsworthy personality Jenelle's and talk noted editor and newspaper man is moderator of the series now to introduce the panel and tonight's guest here is Mr Tucker Good evening often on this program we have talked about the problems of race relations as we are in an off season but it is possible that none of us has seen them quite the same deal quite as our guest tonight on campus press conference is a distinguished educator Dr Rufus Clement who's been president of Atlanta University Georgia since one nine hundred thirty seven He is unusual in another respect he has been a member of the Atlanta board of education since one thousand nine hundred fifty three when he was elected by a wide majority that victory made him the first Negro to win a Major elective office in the Georgia city since the days of civil war reconstruction was marred Dr Clement was re-elected in one nine hundred fifty seven dark climate is also actively associated with some twenty different civic and social welfare organizations. Among these is the United Negro College fund from which is known Atlantic University benefits as do thirty two other institutions of higher learning the United Negro College Fund is soon to open its annual campaign on April first as a matter of fact and Dr comment is currently working to make that campaign and success. Yeah tonight to question Dr climate are brainy Lefkowitz of the City College observation post and Gerry Ferraro and press McGrath all of the Fordham student bar association Gerry and the first question Dr Klein's are talking topic education in the future of the free society necessarily involves the education of our young people in the United States and that of course brings us to the problem of discrimination by the status of a negro student in Georgia we have no integration in public education enjoyed it a day we still have a rigidly separate racial public education system different from many of the Southern states there have been no negroes admitted to the institutions of higher education in Georgia and in that same category I believe there are possibly four other southern states South Carolina Alabama Mississippi and south and Georgia University of Florida has recently admitted. The negro student or two of them rather than Louisiana has had the good students in the State University and the others have all the others have but Georgia is still a part of the hard core what I like to call the reluctant self the Klan or you mentioned one or two in Florida you made me think of how often when integration is purely token and a gracious deal thanked us for a chance for it's becoming much more than that in the near future I think there us but. I would confess that. The situation would differ from institution to institution and from state to state certainly. Florida I think world actually go forward in higher education with more than just talk an integration it just happened that when Governor Collins fled the state and I think he's lived there responsible for what is happening there now. They finally the University of Florida finally admitted one negro to the law school later on another negro qualified and asked to be admitted to one of the graduate schools in the universe and that person was admitted but that was a break in the whole pattern and I think that this wasn't done as a token this was done as an actual policy a matter of opening the university to qualified students I think it really wouldn't talk and certainly in Florida greatest data Clement are you as an elected official of the land or one of education able to influence integration and bringing along the hard road to successful completion Well that remains to be seen since we have not integrated and so that question has not finally come to the point where a decision has to be made Actually I think that my presence on the board is helpful and a great many layers and it's by no other reason that whenever we begin to discuss school matters we have to think of the whole picture rather than just the welfare or just one part of the school population. I think everybody on the board knows how I feel and stand and I should hope that my presence there and what I have done and said would influence something people to feel that after all integration isn't the worst thing in the world and possibly there may be some other negroes who do not have horns ourselves. But you mind if I ask you questions are How did you come to be elected to the board or you're opposed by a white candidate well I don't see the white candidate I am seated a man who's been on the work for twenty odd years. Wrong time some of us in the south have felt that qualified Negroes should offer for public office. The Atlanta Nigro was a pretty intelligent group of people while it latter itself is a very thin I think good city I I would say they remind us what's happened but about nine hundred fifty three they said let's run some people for public public office and one group that is not a nigger voted League came to me through its representatives and said look we can we can all agree on you as a candidate we don't think you can be elected but we think it will do two things it will begin doing move people in the south the Frink of running good people for public office but it will also mean that we can get one Negroes registered and interested in this voting. Because that is the focus of our effort now that we get people to vote so that we can elect good officers and good people and many negroes are not registered and do not vote because a lot what does it mean to us nothing is just a choice between one person on of and neither one is particularly interested in our welfare I agree it we had a pretty hard campaign very few people thought that I could be elected I got very good support from the white community and by got them probably more white votes and I did Negroes because they were more of them but I beat my opponent by about two to one and surprised everybody was running on wasn't us from not the least that in the world that was going to gratify it was very gratifying to me in fact when the election was over that night because if we count our balances immediately we had a voting machine I got a telegram from the loser congratulating me and wishing me the good term of service on the board just in the traditional American political way. Burning Dr Clement in your campaign need to actively support integration in Georgia and. In my campaign and your moment out of this was mighty thirty three in my campaign for the school but I argued two things one that I was qualified for a post on the school board a position on the board and two I thought I had proven myself as a citizen I lived in Atlanta again something I seventeen or eighteen years but I thought the other the third argument and three are necessary on that was that the Negro population in Atlanta both School wise and general was approximately one third of the general population and that one third of the population certainly ought to have some place in policy making boards in a city government and evidently the argument was successful was a successful well and they do need well it's had an important policy making or if you are it is your place on the boy just as some parts gesture of compromise is not a gesture at all the Atlanta Board of Education is an independent group we have we run the public schools we can set the tax rate for the public schools in Atlanta we run. We are course we have to run within the framework of the state of Georgia and that has given us some trouble because Georgia has made certain laws that make it impossible for us to do some things we like to do or some of us would like to do I could say but at the same time we have a school budget an annual budget of around twenty five million dollars we spend much more than that because we've got capital farms for new building program and we employ I suppose ten twelve thousand people and I'm the chairman of the projects in committee and the city. Board of Education and it isn't just a gesture I mean the person on the school board is on a policy making board and it is a powerful I'm bored. Gerry Ferraro has a question on datacom and from what you said I was in the I separate schools for the new grandchild a separate school for their white how to be Negro schools measure up to the light or things like. Not you want to enjoy your in Atlanta I think right and left the line and I know more vital. Physical a now all the schools for niggers are just about as good as the schools for other children or white children because in the last two or three Bondy's years we have made a major effort to bring the Negro schools up to the level physically of the white schools now so far as teachers well correct correct is grossly the same except. There are richer programs and a good number of the white schools. With these extra are things like two or three modern languages Modern from languages. With certain music. To not to want to see but other than that the curriculum is standard actually in teaching personnel from tests which we have recently had made of teachers in the two groups the average of the team and I've shown by these tests. Of the white group is higher than that of the Negro teachers though it isn't the same time true that some Negro teachers write right alongside the highest group of teachers in the city and some white teachers right right along with the lowest group that is the spread is about the same with both groups but the average or achievement of the white teacher is higher than the average achievement of any good teacher and there are certain reasons for that which I don't need to go under now I might before the problem is over but. Ordinarily I would say roughly I would say in conclusion not the negro child. Does not have quite the same equal opportunity that the white John has in Atlanta in spite of the fact that we've done a lot to try to equalize the opportunity to get out of the state of Georgia you have a very different picture that is to say that Georgia has a home the white child has a much greater opportunity and the negro child it is more nearly equal I'd say you know where I would be probably in any other section any other city in Georgia. There's just one thing I know that brings to mind my recent controversy I believe it was September of this year in the New York City system where several mothers were starting an action because they wanted their children sent to white schools outside of a certain way in which the children were then attending school and of course is our school system and I'm just excited turned on by the population and point to where the children. Between school and the city brought in actually have the parents make their children go to school and they patently parents of course said that the city was discriminating against me because the children's children only go to school they weren't being afforded equal opportunities with the white children now do you think that up north we are discriminating against the new By having an attend. School. Well I think you put your finger on another aspect of this whole segregation or integration problem and that is segregation by housing and wherever you have school districts and you can very easily draw a school district line in such a way as to include in that district people of a certain race or religion as you to lose if you're if you have a housing plan in which Does that original and I was talking yesterday to a. Nearby very large northern city and you said well the school which I saw in my son is just too segregated so far as Jordan are concerned there's any high school and I said What do you mean you tell us the single white child in it and I said why isn't there and he said because it is you know an old negro just pick a new growth can not get housing in certain of the surrounding areas so that when he does hires do is put very good for a forced surge on the entire Negro personnel and I know that same thing happens in New York I would find in Boston you know wherever you have large racial or religious groups that you like to find some school made up completely you know students from just that a single religious or racial group and sometimes arrive I'm afraid that don't you know. With malice aforethought Well actually there's going to be no way to rectify the situation so if you know yeah and I call and there's no such a high percentage of them and yet there are so many schools where do you think I'll do my call to have two children take buses or no children. Go to schools in other areas when I say there's a school right next door I don't know I don't but I think girl. When you see of the trouble is that the other direction. The remedy for it is in another direction I happen to have a. Right to your life hour ago I found. Myself. This past summer in Europe and who at the time was quite disturbed because he was not able to find housing in New York City area which he wanted to open which. You certainly would have been. At the cultural level of the people who lived in the financial. As long as you. Do any area why not for living. From your. Characteristics and. Suggest that you look at this question. They are. Making up all. This. Great doctor before you spoke the varying capabilities of the two groups of teachers that are employed in Atlanta. And I presume that the purpose of your university Atlanta University is to minimize any difference in capabilities of teachers how do you feel that Atlanta University itself has succeeded in placing qualified Negro teachers in a public school education system. As a private military here where you have no obligation to admit these students to fly therefore to begin with we have rather high mission requirements we select students we believe I kept. And then we see that they do not graduate or they do not remain in school unless they can do work of an equally high quality So when we graduate a student and we recommend the young no matter what his training may be going job for which is training is spent in the end we feel confident of that price and will make more than an average contribution now we train more than just teachers we train people for other professions marketplace ins and or some of the people right here in New York City some of your best people are graduates of Atlanta University and some of your students from Hunter College and other places come down to us but this provides none of the training we have right now I suppose half dozen hundred college girls. And read Guy scholars and fifteen or twenty of them graduates from Hunter an Atlanta University now living and working in the arts. I don't know if we have any teachers I could name social workers and librarians and people are not getting rather disturbed I don't know what your duty personnel are do you have any difficulty in placing your graduates not a single person whom we are willing to recommend for a specific job as any difficulty in getting a job that is I think because of the university's reputation and because we have been very careful about the people we reckon that we have no no trouble placing our graduates at all and speaking physically as regards your university do you find that you. Are able to train people sufficiently in scientific fields and fields that require specialized training. As far as we go yes we don't do the Dr fly University our highest degree is the master's degree but our students go on and complete the work for the Doctorate in the best universities of the country or if they have training or something to go on in the government or a business and are straight and accept jobs for which they are qualified and do good don't worry they're learning Dr clearly a very bright young man white or Negro grants or municipal education policy or a grant or great campaign of active integration could he be elected now I don't know I mean that's one of those where you're going to elect girls and I have in mind I mean it's easy to guess what as to whether he could or couldn't I can say this in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven I was up for reelection this time I was opposed by a young white man who frankly ran on the platform that he was white and therefore better qualified I ran on the platform that I was an educator. And I beat him about two five or three something like that. And everyone in Atlanta knows how I feel on the race question I mean I didn't go around the building integrating the segregation I was on television people saw I was a negro I have I'm on public record on the air as to how I feel about all of these questions and to look at my record was not a hidden one and I was reelected against an opponent who did raise the race question and said Put me back in because virtually because I am a segregationist. Right as Nick Fury asleep paradoxical though that the people of Atlanta what elect a negro educator who stand so firmly on these issues and yet we move backwards in the fight for integration I don't think it matters moving backwards at all and I can't tell you what it was going to do frankly I'm I have my opinions about how to do a Z. but I'm still a member school board and we are. In court now there's a suit against the board filed by the N.A.C. piano group wouldn't go parents to force the boy do it a grade the public schools the board has steadfastly refused to make any public statement about what it will do now listen to this carefully it has not said we will refuse integrate it has not said we will integrate it has decided to wait until the court's decision is rendered and then the board will say what it will do we think that our position is sound and now since we are the plaintiffs in the case if we are quiet and not debating the issue publicly then we would be if we took one standard the other at the present time frankly we have discussed the question many times as individuals and as people off the record. And I think that Lana has a good book on how your member of the arc from a gas and I have been for twenty five or more years and it is known in Atlanta because I have said it in Atlanta and on a television program not sixty days ago as in Atlanta this same question was raised and I go along and I was a member of the N.E.A. C.P. and it was solely for anybody because I'm not in that it set it to talk about the N.A.S. easy being a communist inspired a communist activated group I think that's absolutely silly I've been a member for twenty five or more years and I know that that is absolutely untrue. A few weeks ago you remember as a result of a program on or out on a program on N.B.C. Huntley made the statement that he thought. The patient slow down should cease its activity for a while about the self like it's moans and recovered from I'm not I'm paraphrasing I'm not quoting the US Do you agree with that statement No I didn't at all. I think to do you got to select your spots and I think you've got to know the timing is an important thing as anyone knows in any public controversy or any debate. But to say that the N.A.C. P. would withdraw or should withdraw now I think is absolutely amps or. I would pick my spots I wouldn't go into Mississippi and start assuming right now I. Ask you one question going back to your. Universe of things and your work for the United Negro College Fund should there be such a thing as a Negro College. Yes or No You see we don't segregate and white students can be at my wife's doing than me admit to bragging to any one of our colleges and how many white students you know are colleges and sometimes the only places where you are fine make student groups are in these colleges so called for Negroes which is the we grew up traditionally as colleges for Negroes we were segregated against to your forced to do admit only a nigger or students and so we did it you had. One of the same time even in those days a very violent and intense aggregation we had in the racial stereotypes and in the racial faculties and on the campus except for student groups you would think that you are a normal university situation but now many of these institutions are white students and practically any one of them will admit any student we are that is what I like to call the oasis in the great the desert sometimes of human relations. Dr are there any other private schools in the state of Georgia besides a member colleges of the United Negro College Fund that are integrated. There is one white school that is integrated I don't feel that I should call the name of the school not even in Georgia it. Might subject them to some sort of criticism but I know at least one white school in Georgia which does NASA Negroes to high school you have a question. And I think said both pro and con about our present progressives and I use the word quote system of education as an educator would you define your feelings on this on the fine after the. Fact. That. I'm a little girl I'm not a progressive. Rebel Army retried is not out and. That's been a great pleasure to our viewers our guests this evening and I will be back again so our guest was the distinguished educated Dr Rufus Clement president of the latter University in Georgia and the only Negro member of the Atlanta Georgia Board of Education he was questioned this evening by Bernie laughter what's of the set in college observation post and by Gerry Ferraro and Chris McGrath both of them for the student Bar Association thank you for listening and until next week and evening our moderator on campus press conference each week is Denilson top noted newspaper men and editors we invite your comments on this program May your card or letter to campus press conference W. N.Y.C. New York seven and be with us again next Sunday evening for another edition of campus press conference a transcribed public affairs feature of your city state.