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Alison Stewart: We stay in Harlem for this segment. The Apollo Theater has been a fixture of Harlem's performing art scene for almost 90 years. Jonelle Procope served as president for the last 20 of those years and tomorrow is her last day. The Apollo is a legendary institution. According to its website at one point in the 1930s, it was the largest employer of Black theatrical workers in the United States.

Entertainers such as Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Luther Vandross, and Lauryn Hill all performed there early in their careers. Still, the Apollo had fallen on hard times in the '70s and closed for a bit. It became a landmark in the '80s and then filed for bankruptcy a few years later. It became a nonprofit in '91, yet still faced financial challenges into the early 2000s. Fast forward to 2023, and Jonelle Procope has left the Apollo in better shape than when she took the job decades ago.

Procope, who took over the job in 2003, worked to financially stabilize the institution, restore and preserve the integrity of the building, grow its audience, and expand education programs. She also saw the unveiling of the Walk of Fame in 2010, memorializing iconic entertainers with plaques outside the venue. During her tenure, the institution received its first visit from a sitting president, Barack Obama.

In 2021, Procope was featured on Forbes 50 Over 50 Vision List highlighting "Exceptional women shaping the future of science, technology, and art." In the fall of 2022, she announced she would leave her post. On the eve of her last day, Jonelle Procope joins us. Jonelle, welcome to All Of It.

Jonelle Procope: Hi, Alison. It's a pleasure to be here.

Alison Stewart: Nice to speak with you again as always. Listeners, we'd like you to join the conversation. Are there any kind words you'd like to share with Jonelle on her next adventure? Have you been to the Apollo in the last few years? What did you go to see? Tell us your favorite memory of the Apollo. Maybe you visited the Walk of Fame. How do you feel about the changes you've seen at the Apollo in the last decade?

Our phone number is 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can also text to that number, or you can reach out to us on social media @allofitwnyc. We want to hear what the Apollo means for you. Janelle you served as-- Jonelle, sorry, I keep saying Janelle. Jonelle, you served as CEO of the Apollo for about two decades. What was the best part of the job? What was the toughest part of the job?

Jonelle Procope: Well, the best part of the job was the opportunity and privilege to lead such an iconic institution. It's been a beacon of hope, a jewel in the crown if you will on 125th Street in Harlem but also beyond that it means so much. The brand means so much to folks all over the world. We play a game. Many of us who work here when we travel, we talk about working at the Apollo. We're always surprised that people know the Apollo brand, know what it is. They may not always know what we're doing, but they are aware of us.

Alison Stewart: What's something that the job entails, the job of CEO of the Apollo that no one ever talks about?

Jonelle Procope: Well, it's interesting. When I meet people and I say that I am the CEO of the Apollo, they immediately think about programming. They immediately think about who is appearing on the stage. What they don't realize is that it's a business. It's a business and so it operates like any other business. You're focused on the financial stability of the organization.

You're focused on management, managing people. You're focused on revenue, how do I increase revenue? We are a not-for-profit, a mission-based organization so a great deal I would say at this moment, 65% of our budget is money that is raised from the philanthropic community and a lot of people don't realize that. My job is in large part going out and making people aware of who we are, what we're doing, and why they should support the institution.

Alison Stewart: When you say mission-based, how do you describe the mission of the Apollo?

Jonelle Procope: Well, the Apollo is the premiere performing arts center for what we would call the elevation of Black artists and creativity. We feel we're the catalyst for artists' evolution and continued learning and engagement with an enduring drive to advance culture forward in Harlem, America, and the world. Simply stated and it carries over as part of our legacy since opening the doors in 1934 is to be a place of opportunity for artists of color.

Our commitment is to support artists of color. Since introducing Amateur Night back in 1934, we really served as a testing ground for new artists working across a variety of art forms. When you mentioned some of the artists who raced the stage like Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong and Lauryn Hill, those artists were not legends when they appeared on the stage. They were artists who just simply wanted an opportunity to hone their skills and to perform in front of an audience.

One of the things that I'm very proud of is that the Apollo was one of the first non-segregated theaters. It allowed people of color to appear on the stage and in the audience, which is very unusual, and also to have jobs behind the scene. That legacy continues today. We still very much are really emphatic about continuing to support emerging artists, giving them the opportunity to push the envelope, hone their skills, and to be an incubator for these artists so that their work can be pushed out and seen by people not only at the Apollo but beyond our four walls.

Alison Stewart: Let's take some calls. Gregory, calling in from Harlem. Hi, Gregory. Thank you so much for calling in today.

Gregory: Hi, Alison. I'm really happy to hear this. Listen, I live about two blocks away from the Apollo so I walked by there often.

Alison Stewart: Oh, great.

Gregory: When I was a kid, I went to Music & Art High School when it was Music & Art High School up on 135th Street. Me and my friends got together and we started a little acapella singing group and went to a Wednesday night amateur hour. It gives me a great pleasure to walk by there every single day and have that memory of being booed off the stage.

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Because we were so bad that we didn't care. We had our opportunity to hit that piece of wood and walk up on that stage. It's always been great to live in this neighborhood and be part of the history of this little town we call Harlem.

Alison Stewart: Gregory, thank you for calling in.

Jonelle Procope: Well, I'm sorry to hear you got booed off, but I know you had a lot of fun trying.

Alison Stewart: I think that comes with a territory. You have to be prepared. [laughs] Let's talk to Artie from Queens. Hi, Artie. Thanks for calling in.

Artie: Oh, thank you. It's a great show. I just wanted to say that first the memories of my mother, her talking about seeing Chick Webb and Ella and Lau Hamptons band, and the King Cole Trio during the war. My great memories of the Apollo, there are three of them. I told the screener. I said the first one was in-- they both happened in 1974. I saw Al Green. That was a hell of a show.

I saw Richard Pryor. Richard Pryor went on stage and someone up in the balcony tried to heckle him. Richard embarrassed that boy so bad that he was trying to slip out of the Apollo and people were falling out laughing at this kid trying to slip out of there after Richard had got on him so badly. My last memory is not really a sweet one, but Smokey Robinson played there.

I think Minnie Riperton was supposed to be there. I remembered later, I think she didn't play. Then I guess now she was probably ill at that time. At that time, I wouldn't have known anything really about that until afterward.

Alison Stewart: Artie, thank you for calling, and really appreciate the call. We are doing an exit interview with the Apollo's outgoing president and CEO, Jonelle Procope. Her last day is tomorrow. Apparently, you weren't really sure about taking the position at the Apollo at first. You spoke to your husband, your brother, colleagues. You had been in Corporate America as a corporate lawyer. What were your questions? What were you thinking about? What were you asking yourself?

Jonelle Procope: Well, it was so different. When I talk to young people in particular, I draw on this experience, and that is to always be open to new opportunities that might present. I was a practicing attorney and I was asked to join the Apollo board back in 1999. I joined the board. At that time, the Apollo was-- it was languishing. There was scaffolding out front, and if you drove by, you might think the theater wasn't open at all, very little programming.

They did have Amateur Night, which has been around again since 1934. Other than that, it was more like a rental hall. Sitting on the board, I was aware of the many challenges that confronted the board and anyone who was going to lead the institution. I remember thinking actually one time, "My gosh, there's so much that needs to be done here. I'm glad that I'm not running it." Out of nowhere-- well, not nowhere, but it certainly appeared that way to me.

The chairman at the time was Richard Parsons. He invited me to breakfast and started talking about legacy and what did I want my legacy to be, which was a question at that time I had never, ever contemplated. He said, "Why don't you think about coming in and running the theater?" As you've just referenced completely took me by surprise because it isn't anything that I had a background in and certainly was not something that I could have aspired to. After giving it some thought I've always loved the arts. I've always loved being around creatives.

Look, the Apollo even then in its languishing state, was an iconic institution. I said, "I'm going to go in, roll up my sleeves and get this done." That's what I've been able to do. When I look back 20 years later I can't believe the things that we had been able to accomplish during my tenure with an extraordinary group of people. An extraordinary board, extraordinary team of professionals.

One other thing that I'd like to say-- one other measure of success, certainly for me, is the fact that there's so many young people who are now working at the Apollo. They see it as a place they want to work, a place that they can make a career or certainly learn their trade and move on. For me, that is extremely gratifying.

Alison Stewart: My guest, is Jonelle Procope. She is the president and CEO of the Apollo for about 24 more hours. We're doing an exit interview. Listeners, if you'd like to call in. We want to hear about your experiences with the Apollo Theater. Maybe you've been there, what did you see? Tell us your favorite memory of the Apollo. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Remember, you can text that number as well. We'll have more with Jonelle and more of your calls after a quick break. This is All Of It.

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This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest, is Jonelle Procope. She is president and CEO of the Apollo. Tomorrow is her last day. We are doing a bit of an exit interview with Jonelle. Let's talk to Novella, who's called in from Staten Island. Hi, Novella.

Novella: Hi. I hope someone out in your listening audience can remember this. My earliest and fondest memories of the Apollo was in the 1950s when rock and roll was all Black, and they had these fabulous groups, the Sonny Til and the Orioles, the Drifters, the Stand Spa. They would change the show every Friday. Once a month on a Friday, we would play hooky from school and stand on line from nine o'clock in the morning until the doors opened at 12, then we'd have to sit through two movies, and finally, these wonderful entertainers would come out on stage and we would be thrilled. We get this so early that we could be in the front rows.

Naturally, they might smile at us or whatever. Once in a while, a comedian would come on. I remember Moms Mabley a few times, but we loved those shows. Then the best part was going backstage and waiting for the guys to come out the back door rather. If they would touch our hands, we would swear we are not going to wash these hands for a month. Of course, that didn't happen, but this was in the 1950s. I'm in my 80s now, and that was such a joy to all of us, and we played hooky. I don't know how we got away with it, but on Friday morning, once a month, they changed that show and we'd be right there with all those fabulous guys in their dazzling suits.

Alison Stewart: Oh, Novella, thank you so much for sharing your memories. That was fantastic. Susie tweeted to us, "I always watch live from the Apollo. When I was a kid a few years ago, I was honored to be the graphic designer for the Playbills. We got to go to a live talent show evening, so exciting, beautiful theater, lovely people who work there. Thank you for your efforts." Shezy also asks you to explain the history of the log. Jonelle?

Jonelle Procope: The log is part of a tree that stood outside of the Lafayette Theater, another theater same vintage as the Apollo. The musicians and artists, performers used to stand outside and around this tree and wait to see if they might be called in to actually perform. They wanted to know whether they were going to work on a particular night. They began to look at the tree as something of a good luck charm, if you will. When the tree was chopped down after the Lafayette Theater closed, it was given to the Apollo as a gift, and that's what it is, the Tree of Hope. When performers come out on the stage, they all rub the tree for good luck.

Alison Stewart: Did you have any personal superstitions during your tenure at the Apollo? Anything that was part of your daily routine that you had to do to make it a good day?

Jonelle Procope: I didn't rub the tree, but I always came in through-- I was always thrilled to be working in the theater. I always came in through the main door so that I could look in and see what the theater looked like when it was empty. It was like a spiritual experience, it was really quiet and you could just imagine the many, many performers who had graced the stage.

Alison, one thing I just want to say, as we look to the future, I'm very excited about what's in store for the Apollo. For the first time in its history, it's going to be expanding into the Victoria Theater Development, which is three doors to the east of the theater. The Apollo is managing that cultural space and there are two additional theaters, a 99-seat theater and a 199-seat theater. Back when I first joined the board at the Apollo, the vision was always for the Apollo to become a performing arts center.

The question was always asked, why not? Why shouldn't Uptown and Harlem have a performing art center? I'm happy to say that today it's a reality. In order to be a viable performing art center, you need to have multiple stages. That's what we will have with these two additional stages, plus the black box and the main stage in the historic theater. What this means is it provides access and opportunity for smaller arts organizations.

As a not-for-profit, we take it very seriously and I feel that not-for-profits have a responsibility to the communities in which they reside. The opening of these two new theaters will provide opportunities for relationships with artists so that they can workshop their work as I said earlier, incubate it and have it either go to the Apollo's main stage or someplace else. I think that's what it's all about in order to contribute to the cultural ecosystem in Harlem.

Alison Stewart: Bella, I'm going to give you the last 20 seconds, real quick.

Bella: Great. Thank you so much for taking my call. I just wanted to highlight my first time at the Apollo Theater was about two years ago. I was three years out of Howard University at a large asset manager, and my mentor called and said, "Hey, I have a couple of extra tickets to see [unintelligible 00:19:56] speak at the Apollo.

Alison Stewart: Oh, that was such a great show in the documentary. Jonelle Procope, thank you for all the work you've done.

Jonelle Procope: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: I hope you get a good rest and can't wait to see what you do next.

Jonelle Procope: Bye-Bye.

 

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