Fall Baseball is Here

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Matt Katz: We're not talking Mickey in the deuce, but we are talking Judge and Alonso Mets and Yanks. It's the Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. I'm Matt Katz, filling in for Brian who, for the record, is a Queens boy like myself. This year, my Mets from Queens are playoff bound for the first time in six years. They've already clinched a playoff spot, and they have a better record, for the record than the Yankees who officially clinched a spot in the postseason last night with a win over Boston.

In our last few minutes, we'll talk about our hometown teams in this moment when they're both in first place in their respective divisions, and some of the superstars powering both teams this whole season. With us now, Deesha Thosar, MLB writer for Fox Sports, who covers the Mets and Yankees. Deesha Thosar is also a former Mets beat reporter for The Daily News. Hi, Deesha, welcome to WNYC. I followed your work for a while. I'm glad you could join us today.

Deesha Thosar: Hey, Matt, thanks for having me on. I'm excited.

Matt Katz: Great. The Yanks beat the Red Sox last night 5 to 4. This is a win that saw them clinch a playoff spot. 91 wins for the season so far. They'll definitely clinch the AL East. How do you see their path toward the World Series at this point?

Deesha Thosar: At this point, I think they are destined to clinch that AL East only because of that strong first half that they had. It's interesting, even when the Mets, which we'll talk about I'm sure soon, when they clinched a playoff spot, there was that subdued celebration with champagne, they were waiting, they knew they had bigger goals. Yankees no champagne in sight last night, zero playoff celebration, its business as usual, was the same as any other win. There was almost zero attention on that specific aspect.

Of course, the story right now in baseball is Aaron Judge, but the Yankees did clinch a postseason spot, and I thought that was interesting how they really just did not celebrate. Sure they acknowledged it, but I think they're going to wait, of course, until they clinch that division to really get the champagne glasses out, those postseason t-shirts, and then really acknowledge their accomplishment.

Matt Katz: Well, the Yankees are used to it, the Mets less so. They actually had their subdued celebration, for the Mets was they had champagne like glasses, and they had some beers. They didn't pour anything on over each other, but they celebrated just a little bit. It was very unique. I'm going to get to the Mets in a moment. You mentioned Aaron Judge, he just narrowly missed out on getting his 61st home run of the season. 61 is a big number in baseball. That's the Roger Maris American League home run record. Can you give us a sense of the historic season that Judge who was used built like Paul Bunyan? Give us a sense of the season this guy is having.

Deesha Thosar: Yes, it's insane. This is a season that if you're a baseball fan, you're not going to forget it. I think it's always interesting when fans of the Mets or Braves, or Dodgers, typically, fans that cannot stand the Yankees are this past week tuning in to see what Aaron Judge is going to do when he's going to break that record. I think that's always a pretty telling example of just how historic and how significant what Judge is doing right now is. Look, I think the most important part of all of this is how he's handled the pressure, and it's high. Of course, there's 43,000 fans packed into Yankee Stadium nightly, and this doesn't faze him.

The reason why is because Aaron Judge from day one of this season and previously, looks at every year as helping the team, what can I do to help the team win? This is not an individual accolade for him, at least publicly. It's almost absurd to say he's not thinking about this privately, but his public persona is always, they're just numbers, which is almost a little offensive if you're a baseball historian.

Yes, they're just numbers, but this is huge. What he's doing in this moment is huge. If this helps him to put it in perspective of a team standpoint to get these numbers, then that's what he's doing. I think he's super close. He's one swing away from tying Roger Maris for that 61, and then one more for even beyond, and the Yankees have still a few games left for him to do some damage.

Matt Katz: The Major League Baseball home run record is somewhat controversial. This game happened in the steroid era, so it's a big deal this guy is hitting 60 home runs at a post-steroid era when we're not seeing the long balls that we used to say, right?

Deesha Thosar: Yes, exactly. I think that's important context. A lot of people, of course, even writing about it. These are of the baseball gatekeepers. When you look back 61 years from now, you're going to see what the context was, and Judge might have the clean home run record. Of course, that would be ignoring what Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire did. I think that's not exactly the path that we want to take care because Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, they're great athletes, great sluggers, great hitters. Sure, they were accused of steroids. They cheated the game, and that's awful, but it's different I think in baseball, especially.

Taking steroids is not going to give you that innate ability to connect the ball with the bat. It helps them stay on the field. It helps them stay on the field and garner, of course, those crazy numbers, Bonds 73, and of course, Bonds leads the home run list all time because he was able to stay healthy. What Judges doing, of course, without all that baggage is, of course, way more impressive than cheating the game and helping with performance-enhancing drugs. We're not valuing Judge enough right now. It's exciting. It's inspiring, but I think almost it will be even greater what he did when you look back on it a few years from now, a few decades from now.

Matt Katz: We can take your calls on the Mets and Yanks, the season both headed for the playoffs. What are you looking forward to in the postseason, 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692, or tweet @BrianLehrer. I'm WNYC reporter Matt Katz filling in for Brian today. If you're just joining us, my guest is Deesha Thosar, MLB writer for Fox Sports who covers the Mets and Yankees. Turning to the Mets for a moment, you cover the Mets as a beat reporter for The Daily News for several years, and the Mets are now in the postseason for the first time since 2016. How different is this year's team in terms of mindset and makeup and managerial expertise compared to prior Mets clubs that you were so familiar with?

Deesha Thosar: Oh, yes, completely different. Still, as a reporter, it's almost hard to adjust from the whiplash of previous season because I've always been waiting for that other shoe to drop or some drama to happen. Every time that feeling arises from this Mets team, it just disappears instantly. I think that's directly attributed to their new owner, of course, Steve Cohen, who's in his second season since purchasing the team, and of course, Buck Showalter, the manager who knows a few things about managing a team after decades of doing so, and leading another team to the postseason.

Mostly, the difference for me after covering the Mets of Mickey Callaway, the Mets of their GM Zack Scott, who was pulled over for DUI, for instance, Lindor and Javier Baez thumbs down to the fans. They've had these sorts of huge moments, which they came off unprofessional. The exact difference for me this season is their professionalism, and that steady mindset of not getting too high and not getting too low. I think when they clinch that postseason was exactly a good example of how they've handled the entire season. This was, of course, a huge accomplishment, but they're treating it like, "Okay, that's step one, we still have more work to do."

I think that's a huge difference from seasons past where we've seen the Mets get complacent with the lead. I think this year they know they can't do that simply because of the pressure the Braves have put on them all year. These Mets this year they know it's not over, but they've certainly carried the right attitude. Even if they do not end up with winning the Division, I think fans can certainly be proud of what they've put together.

Matt Katz: For sure. It's not just professionalism, they also just have more talent than they have in years past. Pete Alonso this year, the slugger who plays first base has 37 Homers. He has hit more home runs in past seasons, but he seems like a more complete player to me watching on my TV from home. Am I reading that right?

Deesha Thosar: Yes, exactly. I think we've seen Pete a few times go into these slums where he's currently chasing. He is hunting for a home run ball. This season I've seen him be more patient. He's okay with getting the extra bases, if it's a single or double, he'll take it. That's why his ops is up. Really, it's more of just that day-to-day mindset. How Pete is handling the season I think is a microcosm of his teammates and the team as a whole of taking this day-by-day. Of course, it's interesting when you put what Pete is doing against Aaron Judge and that goes to show.

I think Pete is in the high 30s with his home runs, nowhere near 60. We saw Pete do in his rookie season, that 53 home run year. He's capable and this is almost, of course, it's always going to be a drop-off from his rookie season but what we're seeing now is him being, like you said, a more complete player. I think Pete definitely has work to do at first phase of the fielding but it's no detriment in the team. I think he works really hard and it's nothing like that's going to hurt them. Overall, of course, he's the face of the franchise right now from an offensive standpoint.

Matt Katz: Then on the other side of the ball, defensive standpoint, pitching wins ballgames. Do the Mets have the three best pitchers in baseball? I'm talking about Jacob deGrom and Max Scherzer and then closer, Edwin Diaz.

Deesha Thosar: Oh, 100%. When you put those three together, it's going to be tough, and I think every other team knows that he's already been admitted into the postseason. I think putting the Dodgers against the Mets and you're just starting Jacob deGrom, Max Scherzer and you can say it's a shutout carried into the eighth ninth inning, the prospect of Diaz coming out of that bullpen is not going to calm anyone's nerves on the other team. When you put those three heads together, it's really a three-headed monster and it's going to be tough.

Anything can happen in the playoffs but what we've seen from Scherzer, of course, grinding out his stats, deGrom is like an Olympian god, he's completely from a different planet and Diaz is having the best season of his career. This is exactly the formula the Mets want to last throughout October, it's been great in the season, but really, we're going to have to see if this formula also works in the postseason. Really, the way they've carried themselves there's no reason to doubt that it won’t.

Matt Katz: Deesha, we got some callers who have some questions for you, Eric in Yonkers. Hi, Eric, thanks for calling in.

Eric: Thank you. I have to admit as a lifelong Mets fan, I feel a little guilty that our owner is the richest guy of all the teams, makes me feel a little bit like maybe we are turning into the Yankees but we're not. It's been a wonderful year. My question is, what do you think would happen if there's a Subway Series? How would that go?

Matt Katz: Yes. Will the Mets avenge the 2000 World Series and beat the Yankees in a Subway Series? If that were to happen, Deesha, what's your prediction upholding to it?

[crosstalk]

Deesha Thosar: Yes, it's a great question. I think as it stands now, the Mets' offense has looked stronger than the Yankees simply because it's hard to picture the Yankees doing anything that they are without Aaron Judge leading that the top of the lineup. Now it's heating up, it's a closer race but I think as a whole this season, the Mets have shown me that their offense clicks and grinds better than the Yankees so I would give the at least from an offensive standpoint, a really close, tight race there.

The Yankees hit more home runs than the Mets so that can be kind of the X-factor for any team and this postseason even if it doesn't end up as a World Series. When it comes to pitching, I think, again, the Mets get the green light there of winning that if it's comparing one to the other. Gerrit Cole has been shaky, he's kind of a hit-or-miss he's not exactly their shutdown starter that they wanted. Nestor Cortés has been decent, he's good, he's solid, but these guys don't last too deep into games like we've seen from the Mets and Jacob deGrom, Scherzer, Bassett, the three of them go deep.

When it comes to offense and pitching and starting, I would give the edge slightly on offense to the Mets, significantly more on pitching to the Mets, and when it comes to bullpen, I think these two teams take out Edwin Diaz and they're pretty similar, the Yankees also have some issues with their bullpen. It would definitely be interesting in more ways than one if that ended up happening.

Matt Katz: No question about it. As a Mets fan, that's what I want to see in the World Series, obviously. That's who we would want to be. Becca in Astoria I think is also a Mets fan. Hey there, Becca, thanks for calling.

Becca: Hey, good morning. Thanks for having me. I am a Mets fan, I live in Astoria now, I grew up on Long Island and lived in Brooklyn for 10 years. I just want to say thanks for being a Mets fan, Deesha, thanks for being women's voice in sports. I can't express how much I appreciate that.

Deesha Thosar: Oh, thank you.

Becca: I'm moving to New Orleans and it was supposed to be this summer but now I’ve kind of turned my life upside down because I will not leave New York until mid-November because I need to be there for the postseason however far they go which is going to be all the way.

Matt Katz: Oh, my God.

Becca: I take it very seriously.

[chuckles]

Matt Katz: Do you just want to be in New York for this or are you planning to go to all the playoff games that you can go to?

Becca: I am going to try to get there my hardest and I just needed to be in the environment and listen to the radio so I don't have to listen to the national broadcast [unintelligible 00:15:01] when I'm home. I'm 31 or I'm about to be 31 and so it's been very rocky. I, in the process of moving, just found my high school notebook where every page that I loved the 2006 Mets until it got to the day that they got eliminated and I said how much I was crying. Being in elementary school in 2000 was very contentious, very intense environment and I'm just crossing my fingers like the last caller said, I would love to see a Subway Series.

I think it'd be great for the city, I think it'd be great for baseball because it's exciting and I think the season with the Mets has drawn in a lot of fans since they're exciting and the S&Y Broadcast was exceptional. It's just been just one of the most fun seasons of my entire life.

Matt Katz: That's great. Becca, thank you very much for calling in. I hope I see you at Citi Field before you move away in November. Deesha, if there were to be this Subway Series, I was in New York in 2000 and it really captivated the city. You walk down the street when those games were playing, bars and restaurants were filled, is what people were talking about wearing Mets and Yankees hats. It's a different era. There's a lot more distractions, other sports are more popular. Do you think a Mets-Yankees World Series would be a cultural moment for this town?

Deesha Thosar: Oh, 100% especially I think just where even New York sports is post-COVID I think is different. I think that's been a factor in terms of more people tuning in to what matters to them and I think you could get carried away whether that's from a distraction standpoint. You need to step away from the everyday struggle we're dealing with and in that way, I think sports has been almost bigger since COVID. This is beyond, of course, this would be huge for diehard fans and like you said, a cultural moment I think the X-factor in it becoming even larger is Steve Cohen.

I liked what the colors that earlier in that he feels kind of guilty about maybe the Mets are becoming the Yankees. They're not, of course, the Mets will always be the Mets and have their own character and the Yankees are completely different. I do think Steve Cohen leading this team adds another fire or another flavor to this rivalry, to the Crosstown rivalry because they are becoming more similar. Even this offseason, Aaron Judge impending free agent, Steve Cohen is going to be right at the top throwing money at Judge.

This is all going to come to light if that Subway World Series really did happen. There's a lot of parallels and you can draw from both of these teams. It's exciting, no doubt. I think there's a real shot that we could see it. Even the anticipation is fun. Even if it doesn't happen and just thinking that it could, it's a really good time right now to, of course, be a New York baseball fan.

Matt Katz: Totally. About a dozen games left in the season, I hope everybody's watching and we're going to leave it there. Deesha Thosar, thank you so much for coming on, MLB writer for Fox Sports who covers the Mets and the Yanks. Maybe we'll talk to you again if we get to that World Series.

Deesha Thosar: Sounds good. Thanks for having me on.

Matt Katz: I’m Matt Katz, I've been filling in for Brian Lehrer, thanks for tuning in today, everyone. Have a wonderful weekend.

 

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